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    Following Sora's announcement as the final fighter coming to Smash Bros. Ultimate, we've got an update on the future of the Newcomer Speculation forum. Please check it out!

    The Future of Ultimate Newcomer Speculation

Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

Firox

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I could have sworn there was an interview where Sakurai basically alluded to Snake and Wolf being in the top 5 of the ballot.
 

WeirdChillFever

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With regards to predicting no cuts+EIH... as some did...


Alice and Bob talk about the weather. The forecasts all say it's going to rain. Alice stubbornly insists that it will not rain despite this. Not because she's a meteorologist herself, but because she just doesn't like the rain. So that's what she wants, and so she's dying on that hill.
Bob laughs and reminds her that it will in fact rain, as per the many forecasts.

It doesn't rain.

Hindsight bias is one thing, but if you were right in advanced.. as some were...
My main question... were those that predicted EIH prior to Ultimate's reveal rational to do so? Does having been right have any bearing on that?
No, this is the Russell’s Clock problem. Something about justified true belief
 

Firox

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My predictions for the top 5 on the Ballot

  1. Sora
  2. Snake
  3. King K Rool
  4. Banjo-Kazooie
  5. Wolf
I would say this looks like an incredibly high probability given the order of priorities. Sakurai saw the outpouring of demand for vets so he kicked things off with "Everyone is Here!" After that, he started knocking out the newcomers with respect to demand vs acquisition. Being the licensing nightmare he is, Sora was saved for last both to allow time for procurement and to end with a bang.
 
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Sucumbio

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Y'know, Sora was specified as the ballot's most requested newcomer.
What are the odds the winner of the ballot was one of the cut veterans? Snake and Wolf come to mind as fast contenders. I could totally see either of those two having topped it.
Could have the cut veterans' ballot performance been what inspired EIH?

Even beyond the Bayonetta scam and the Sora not-scam, it's fun to think about how much influence the ballot likely had.
I actually remember doing the ballot and I voted for Snake. I also remember that at the time I didn't expect any brawl 3rd party newcomer to return so I was specifically voting for snake because he was one of my favorite characters and I wanted him back.

Point being it is interesting how expectations change. As I type this I don't FEEL as if the 3rd party newcomers in Ultimate won't return. Like in a competitive set Sakurai has somehow conditioned me to believe that they're all coming back even if the chances are high that some won't. Maybe I'm just more optimistic these days?

I also think the number of 3rd party newcomers matters. We had Snake and Sonic lol so it wasn't too hard to understand why it was assumed they were one offs and so needed a ballot vote to justify their return. But now we have a ton of 3rd parties with some coming from smash 4 as returners so it feels less of a mountain to climb expecting these characters to come back even without ballot support should there be a new ballot or based on their popularity from the old ballot.
 
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GilTheGreat19

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I personally feel Snake could've done better than Wolf but that's just me.
I'm sure in general they both did great
 

MarioRaccoon

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Prediction of ballot results (excluding non-videogame characters)

1) Sora
2) Snake
3) King K Rool
4) Banjo-Kazooie
4) Ice Climbers
5) Ridley
6) Bayonetta
7) Wolf
8) Castlevania (various characters)

Other veterans (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Pichu and Young Link), Chrom, Daisy, Dark Samus, Bomberman, Shovel Knight, Shante, Waluigi, Isaac, Rayman, Krystal, Geno, Knuckles/Tails, Lloyd probably fill the rest of top 25. Some other popular names like Bandana Waddle Dee (or another Kirby rep) or Dixie Kong may also score high (top 25 or 20).

I can see Monster Hunter, Yokai Watch and Dragon Quest got lots of votes in japan.

And what is nice is that, aside from Rayman who only ended up being a spirit, the rest made it in some form (fighter, AT or mii costume).
 
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Sucumbio

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No, this is the Russell’s Clock problem. Something about justified true belief
Yep.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettier_problem

Justified True Belief (JTB)

The main idea behind Gettier's examples is that the justification for the belief is flawed or incorrect, but the belief turns out to be true by sheer luck.

Hence Alice was lucky not reasonable. This reminds me of my Philosophy classes at university lol ugh migraine time.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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Are you where the Smash Bubble term came from?
deepfried_1634145157867.jpg


The term was used prior by myself and some others prior to my writing on it, but my essay on Steve certainly brought more attention to the term, which led to its wider usage.
Hot take, but I could see Steve doing well in the Ballot
Based on the numerous Miiverse requests for the character? I'm sure he did way better than anyone thought.
 
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Theguy123

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Hot take. i personally don’t believe that snake, k rool, banjo and wolf finished top 5.

personally I think they probably finished top 10 but the top 5 probably consists off names that were hard to negotiate for and we probably only have sora who finished in that top 5.

Sakurai’s wording off sora winning the ballot gives me the impression that there’s at least a few names in that top 5 that aren’t talked about on this board and were probably either unrealistic or extremely hard to

I personally don’t see Disney being hard to work with considering tons off their games are on Nintendo consoles.

I wouldn’t have a clue who finished in the top 5 but I’ll make a bold prediction.

Geno probably finished top 5 but square was probably hard to negotiate with due to Geno being a 1 time thing

That’s probably the only bold move I can make due to seeing the constant talk about him. It makes sense though because Geno was at his all time hype the moment the ballot was announced because they brought him back as a mii costume
 

Rie Sonomura

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When was the random Lloyd Mii dropped during 4? Before it’s ballot closed?

I was thinking of a point I made earlier with Geno and how his Mii came after the ballot ended so itd be too late for him to score additional votes

also I’m convinced Fiora being in Shulk’s Final Smash was due to the 13 votes she got (mine included) meanwhile poor Neku got diddly squat, not even a spirit :c
 

MarioRaccoon

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When was the random Lloyd Mii dropped during 4? Before it’s ballot closed?

I was thinking of a point I made earlier with Geno and how his Mii came after the ballot ended so itd be too late for him to score additional votes

also I’m convinced Fiora being in Shulk’s Final Smash was due to the 13 votes she got (mine included) meanwhile poor Neku got diddly squat, not even a spirit :c
July 30th 2015. Same wave as King K Rool Mii.

Another one that I forgot and imagine got more or less “good” results at ballot was Phoenix Wright. Probably a top 30 or 40 name. Sadly, it didn’t make it, even as a mii costume.
 
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DaybreakHorizon

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I've been lurking and I just gotta speak up on this continued dissonance.

It could happen but it probably won't unless some other fanbase falls victim to a figurehead who got the taste of admiration and then began spinning bull**** for two years and having the fanbase lap it up while everyone who was shouting that the emperor wasn't wearing clothes was chased out of the village.

This was permitted to carry on to the growing detriment of rationality and the understandable irritation of everyone who could see people vesting their hopes in shoddy references. Just like how everyone, Geno fans included, feel when people circulate claims by SamusHunter or Zippo or Hotgirlvideos69 or other clout chasers who obviously lack credibility. When one person posts one of their allegations, the complaints last a whole page or more. Now imagine that but for two years and with dozens of people insisting they're either a) credible or b) just speculating. Which contradict each other, but whatever. That's what you were told.

Other sites rightfully saw Fatmanonice as being one in the same with them. Which he is, and was. It might be one of the only things I've ever seen GameFAQs, resetera, reddit and 4chan all agree on.

It's not really the fault of the Geno fans for being taken for a ride, you were lead to believe the journey ended in the destination you wanted, which made it appealing to get on board. It's a shame so many people were so gullible, and questioning the driver was likely to get you thrown from the car, but intentions, as they usually are, began innocuously enough.

Think about it though. It's no coincidence that virtually none of the people without investment to Geno fell prey to the falsehoods being espoused in that thread. When the lure isn't for you, you can see clearly.

Though the other side did eventually lose their patience and handled Geno fans with frustration, resentment and mockery; for their revolving door of weird theories, for their deference to a fraud, for their strange misplaced confidence that Geno was always just around the corner, often necessitating a thread lock when that didn't materialize, for the fact that criticism of any of it seemingly summoned a supporter who would relay it back to the Geno, and because, like now, arguing about all that regularly monopolized the conversation. The friction wasn't pretty and there was a lot from each side that wasn't warranted. GameFAQs' strange fascination with the comings and goings of the Geno thread being a prime example. But GameFAQs is kinda ****, and they thrive on negativity. If it isn't Geno, some character is being actively disparaged. The division didn't begin from those opposed to the emergent behaviour of the Geno thread though, it began with that behaviour.

Me, I have nothing but respect for the supporters who kept their heads above water during that whole debacle. It was a lot.

Everyone here is being too polite to say it, and they probably want to let sleeping dogs lie, but that's a huge part of why this **** went down. It wasn't the only factor but it was definitely a major one. Before that happened the fanbase was maybe a little idealistic, but pretty unproblematic, all things considered.
Now that the gate's been blown open, I'll give my own two cents by saying that the Geno thread's behavior far surpassed normal responses to what is, unfortunately, standard internet behavior.

Typically when faced with usual harassment from sites like 4chan, GameFAQs, and the lot you either ignore it and keep going on or stop the activity that's causing you to be harassed. Maybe leave the internet for a bit to cool down. That's what I did when I started getting too much attention for the Leaks Count project I undertook in the Summer of 2018. I began getting mentioned on sites like 4chan and GameFAQs, didn't like the attention, and backed off from the project (it also helped that my first semester of college made me far too busy to lurk on sites like 4chan, GameFAQs, and Reddit hourly like I was). I understood that's just normal behavior, and it'd simmer down with time. I never fed the flames or tried to fight against it or anything like that.

Instead of doing this, the Geno thread used any sort of criticism to feed into a continual persecution complex for the express purpose of creating some sort of "Day of Reckoning" when Geno was finally revealed (which he always was according to them). That's not normal behavior; you don't keep an updated list of everyone who's disagreed with you to call them out at the right time. That's a level of pettiness that not even I, a self-proclaimed petty *****, would ever stoop to.

When Sora was announced I didn't go through my post history to see who disagreed with me to call them out. I never quoted someone out of the blue to call them out–which is something the Geno Thread did multiple times on this site, to myself once and to friends of mine multiple times. Over the course of speculation I stuck to my role as a user on this site, went with the flow, and did my best not to stir the pot–though I'll admit there have been times where I've stepped out of line, and I regret my actions then and have done my best to grow past them.

Fatman was certainly quite the character. I have a lot of thoughts on him looking back, but I don't think anyone here thinks he's a Machiavellian villain who dedicated himself to trolling the entire Geno Thread for some reason far beyond our understanding. I personally always thought he was a super fan who found himself taking on a leadership role in the community due to his seniority, got duped into thinking he had genuine insider information by Sabi's group (and if you want to talk about a real villain in Smash Ultimate Speculation, Sabi is up there with the worst of them), and rode that wave of popularity and reputation to its height before crashing down.

I think he got overzealous due to how long he'd been supporting Geno, Geno's increased likelihood to be added as a fighter, and as mentioned before the mass harassment and criticism the Geno Thread received. I could imagine him believing that, in the face of attention from sites all these other sites, he needed to stick up not only for Geno as a character, but also for Geno's fanbase whom he genuinely cared for. Unfortunately, that entailed getting them wrapped up in his shoddy reputation as an insider and the drama he found himself embroiled in with other users. From there, I think we all know what happened.

No one's saying that the Geno Thread wasn't provoked at times, but to completely deny culpability and say that the Geno Thread was completely innocent outside of defending itself isn't the truth. It completely paints over the multiple instances of people being quoted in the Geno Thread and coming in to defend themselves from the harassment they were receiving there, or the times where Geno fans went out into other threads to spread the gospel of Fatman because he had some new insider info fresh off the presses that everyone needed to know about, or the fifty-second time that we had to go over Cacomallow because, even a year later people believed it because the smoke and mirrors put up were just that powerful.

Saying "it takes two to tango" requires accepting the truth of both sides. While the original Geno Thread was victim to mass criticism and harassment, they were unable to discern the former from the latter and unduly lashed out at anyone who disagreed with them. Driven by a persecution complex and a desire to prove that they were right with their latest inane theory, they went out into the wider community and added to the flames by fighting fire with fire wherever Geno was brought up–even if only tangentially. Yes, other character support threads could end up like that, but the Geno Thread was truly the only one of its kind to become so polemic and combative, primarily due to its driving sources. To claim anything less is revisionist history.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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Honestly? I wouldn’t mind another ballot now that DLC is over

less infighting cuz people won’t think it’ll actively influence the dlc like last time (Bayonetta was supposedly planned all along, she just happened to do decently enough to be considered 4’s “realizable” ballot winner)

more chances for those thrown to the wayside or even totally absent

and maybe a trick to avoid ballot stuffing - a list of 10 per Nintendo account or something idk

AND of course all your Gokus, Shreks, Iron Men, Gundams etc are disregarded cuz they didn’t originate from video games
 

WeirdChillFever

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Hot take. i personally don’t believe that snake, k rool, banjo and wolf finished top 5.

personally I think they probably finished top 10 but the top 5 probably consists off names that were hard to negotiate for and we probably only have sora who finished in that top 5.

Geno probably finished top 5 but square was probably hard to negotiate with due to Geno being a 1 time thing

That’s probably the only bold move I can make due to seeing the constant talk about him. It makes sense though because Geno was at his all time hype the moment the ballot was announced because they brought him back as a mii costume
I’m not sure what you mean by “his hype was at an all time high because they brought him back as a Mii Costume”. The Mii Costume was revealed well after the ballot closed, so the Mii Costume and subsequent interview of Sakurai saying he wanted Geno in Brawl wouldn’t have an effect on thr ballot, but did give a huge boost to Geno support that didn’t die down for Ultimate because his Mii was MIA until Sepiroth. That’d actually be a reason for Geno not to place that high on the ballot, his popularity surged after those comments and after the ballot.

If you mean that you surmise that Geno must’ve been popular on the ballot considering they brought him as a Mii Costume, that’s fair enough, but K. Rool got a Mii Costume seemingly out of the blue as well, so if Mii Costumes were an indication of a particularly high ballot placement, K. Rool was up there as well.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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Hot take. i personally don’t believe that snake, k rool, banjo and wolf finished top 5.

personally I think they probably finished top 10 but the top 5 probably consists off names that were hard to negotiate for and we probably only have sora who finished in that top 5.

Sakurai’s wording off sora winning the ballot gives me the impression that there’s at least a few names in that top 5 that aren’t talked about on this board and were probably either unrealistic or extremely hard to

I personally don’t see Disney being hard to work with considering tons off their games are on Nintendo consoles.

I wouldn’t have a clue who finished in the top 5 but I’ll make a bold prediction.

Geno probably finished top 5 but square was probably hard to negotiate with due to Geno being a 1 time thing

That’s probably the only bold move I can make due to seeing the constant talk about him. It makes sense though because Geno was at his all time hype the moment the ballot was announced because they brought him back as a mii costume
Not believing Banjo placed Top 5 is believable sure. But I want to know what you're smoking if you don't think Snake, K. Rool, or Wolf didn't place Top 5. I guarantee you at least one of those three placed in the Top 5, if not all of them. They were by far some of the most popular community picks at the time, along with other cut veterans. K. Rool led the charge for newcomers within the core community, having a massive fanbase organized around him.

Geno doing well in the Ballot probably isn't too far off. But I'd place him more around the Top 25, as before him–even in the core community–were a lot of other third party choices (e.g. Castlevania, Shantae, Shovel Knight, etc.).
 

N3ON

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Can't say about top five but I'm thinking Banjo, K. Rool, Snake, Wolf, Inkling, Bayo, Shovel Knight and Rayman were all in the top 10. With Sora, ofc.

Everyone leaving Inkling out of the rankings has forgotten 2015.

Widen it out to the top 20 and I think you'd see Ridley, Simon/Alucard, Shantae, Ice Climbers and BWD. I'd like to say Isaac was in the top 10 because he always did really well on exit polls and clearly got deliberate attention in-game, but top 20 may also fit. Though any of these characters being in the low ranks of the top 10 wouldn't be crazy.

Characters like Geno and Waluigi I'm really not too sure about since they were in popularity troughs. Maybe high teens at best, but probably in the 20s.
 
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TheCJBrine

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I feel bad for not realizing the tribalistic behavior in the old Geno thread until the end or after it, maybe I was blinded by stuff the other users said idk. I was aware of some bad behavior but I guess I didn't think about it as much as I should have.

admittedly I could also be argumentative myself (which some of yall may know simply from how I sometimes argued over Steve :>), and was really bothered by what seemed to be actual trolling or some other stuff that wasn't just criticism, and there were people I thought were being rude over "leaks" and whatnot, but there were also Geno thread members who acted like people were trolling simply for doubting Geno's chances but still liking to be part of the discussion and seeing what others were saying. I remember one member being bothered for this reason and thinking it was dumb myself, though I don't remember if I said anything or not; might have said at least something in defense of them but it may not have even been in the Geno thread, and I'm not even certain...

I did think some people were being a bit too harsh on theories (even if they were Farfetch'd though I assumed theories were just all in good fun and saw them as possible myself), however I guess how some acted after the starling aka "Bird Leak" turned out to be a big can of nothing should've made me realize people would act like that again when/if they turn out to be wrong (and were wrong).

really all the arguing and stuff was stupid and I apologize if I bothered anyone, I tried to stay respectful but at least a couple of times I'm sure I got a bit too mad over what I thought was rude stuff, even if I didn't use insults.

I guess Chillychub Swimming In Snowfrost Pond was either lying all along or started to after getting a taste of popularity despite caring for Geno and the community around him, idk. I was told he said lies, though.

anyway once again if I was problematic I'm sorry. I guess I was blinded by optimism and passion and stuff but I didn't mean any ill will. I guess I didn't act like the others in terms of pushing people away and being super hostile, though (although I did dislike coming to this thread for a while due to how a leak argument went and while I tried staying respectful I did do a dumb thing and I'm sorry for that)...but still, I'm sorry for anything dumb I may have said.

it's a bunch of bad or poor memories now. At least there were some good times. Of course I still like Geno and would like to see him, Mallow, etc. be in Smash and get into a new Mario game, but yeah Geno discussion isn't very fun anymore since it's mostly bringing up all this stuff now it seems...
 
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Rie Sonomura

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I guess I wanna apologize for all the times I’ve been out of line as well

I wasn’t a Geno supporter (only lurked for “leaks” which were false) but… yeah. I’d rather not dwell on it.
 

MooMew64

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Honestly?

I've made jokes about Geno, but when bein' real here, I feel bad about the predicament the good eggs of that support base are in now. As a Waluigi supporter, I know how it feels to see your whole community painted with a broad stroke just because some of its members did something...Not wise, for lack of a better way of putting it. I certainly did a lot of dumb stuff on my time here that I definitely apologize for: Arguments I started over Box Theory way back, Byleth arguments, the list goes on.

All we can do is forgive and move on. We can sit around and point fingers all we like, but both parties had involvement in the mess that happened with the Geno Thread. The Geno Thread developed a persecution complex, while some users in this thread fed into it or retaliated against it. In the future, I think we would do well not to create "sides" or encourage the kind of tribe mentality that the Geno Thread era propagated.
 

EricTheGamerman

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This might be an interesting thread to go back and read through, now that Ultimate's roster is complete

And just keep in mind that, yes, basically everybody in the thread was wrong about at least something - but don't be too snarky. Try to remember how things were back when this was current. If we made a thread about predicting Smash 6 right now, we'd be just as wrong.
It's wild to think of how little room people gave third parties back then even coming off of Smash 4's big cycle is pretty much all I'll say. Almost everyone expected a business as usual Smash even though the Ryu/Cloud/Bayonetta triple punch had just happened, and lots of people still seemed very stuck in the traditional "Nintendo third parties" mode haha.

i think Rayman did really well in the smash ballout outside of japan i remember the heavy demands that came for him after that fake Rayman smashified leak
Rayman is an odd one I think in a lot of ways because of how he's appeared in Smash before, but the fact that he was a Base Game Spirit after being a trophy with a decent coverage last game always felt kind of odd and indicative of how not seriously they took him as a potential inclusion. It's odd, and in some ways perhaps unfortunately fitting, that Rabbids are once again the ones with a bigger presence than Rayman in this game.

I guess it helps Rayman has once again faded into obscurity (and his creator turned out to be a real piece of work too) while Rabbids are arguably undergoing their biggest resurgence with Mario.
 

ForsakenM

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Now that the gate's been blown open, I'll give my own two cents by saying that the Geno thread's behavior far surpassed normal responses to what is, unfortunately, standard internet behavior.

Typically when faced with usual harassment from sites like 4chan, GameFAQs, and the lot you either ignore it and keep going on or stop the activity that's causing you to be harassed. Maybe leave the internet for a bit to cool down. That's what I did when I started getting too much attention for the Leaks Count project I undertook in the Summer of 2018. I began getting mentioned on sites like 4chan and GameFAQs, didn't like the attention, and backed off from the project (it also helped that my first semester of college made me far too busy to lurk on sites like 4chan, GameFAQs, and Reddit hourly like I was). I understood that's just normal behavior, and it'd simmer down with time. I never fed the flames or tried to fight against it or anything like that.

Instead of doing this, the Geno thread used any sort of criticism to feed into a continual persecution complex for the express purpose of creating some sort of "Day of Reckoning" when Geno was finally revealed (which he always was according to them). That's not normal behavior; you don't keep an updated list of everyone who's disagreed with you to call them out at the right time. That's a level of pettiness that not even I, a self-proclaimed petty *****, would ever stoop to.

When Sora was announced I didn't go through my post history to see who disagreed with me to call them out. I never quoted someone out of the blue to call them out–which is something the Geno Thread did multiple times on this site, to myself once and to friends of mine multiple times. Over the course of speculation I stuck to my role as a user on this site, went with the flow, and did my best not to stir the pot–though I'll admit there have been times where I've stepped out of line, and I regret my actions then and have done my best to grow past them.

Fatman was certainly quite the character. I have a lot of thoughts on him looking back, but I don't think anyone here thinks he's a Machiavellian villain who dedicated himself to trolling the entire Geno Thread for some reason far beyond our understanding. I personally always thought he was a super fan who found himself taking on a leadership role in the community due to his seniority, got duped into thinking he had genuine insider information by Sabi's group (and if you want to talk about a real villain in Smash Ultimate Speculation, Sabi is up there with the worst of them), and rode that wave of popularity and reputation to its height before crashing down.

I think he got overzealous due to how long he'd been supporting Geno, Geno's increased likelihood to be added as a fighter, and as mentioned before the mass harassment and criticism the Geno Thread received. I could imagine him believing that, in the face of attention from sites all these other sites, he needed to stick up not only for Geno as a character, but also for Geno's fanbase whom he genuinely cared for. Unfortunately, that entailed getting them wrapped up in his shoddy reputation as an insider and the drama he found himself embroiled in with other users. From there, I think we all know what happened.

No one's saying that the Geno Thread wasn't provoked at times, but to completely deny culpability and say that the Geno Thread was completely innocent outside of defending itself isn't the truth. It completely paints over the multiple instances of people being quoted in the Geno Thread and coming in to defend themselves from the harassment they were receiving there, or the times where Geno fans went out into other threads to spread the gospel of Fatman because he had some new insider info fresh off the presses that everyone needed to know about, or the fifty-second time that we had to go over Cacomallow because, even a year later people believed it because the smoke and mirrors put up were just that powerful.

Saying "it takes two to tango" requires accepting the truth of both sides. While the original Geno Thread was victim to mass criticism and harassment, they were unable to discern the former from the latter and lashed out at anyone who disagreed with them. Driven by a persecution complex and a desire to prove that they were right with their latest inane theory, they went out into the wider community and added to the flames by fighting fire with fire wherever Geno was brought up–even if only tangentially. Yes, other character support threads could end up like that, but the Geno Thread was truly the only one of its kind to become so polemic and combative, primarily due to its driving sources. To claim anything less is revisionist history.
Man, I REALLY didn't want this to continue like this originally, but now that it has I'm seeing exactly what I wanted, even if not from whom I wanted to see it from, I guess I'm okay with a bit of derailing.

I'm not sure where this updated list of attacking people who thought Geno wasn't in was at. I apparently didn't get that memo. To keep the discussion about the Geno Thread as minimum as possible here since it just brings up bad old blood for people, if you can DM me this supposed list and who was making it just so we can have a small chat about it that would be nice, because I have to say that as of now this seems like a work of fiction. I'm not calling anyone a liar, but while it's not hard for me to believe that a certain Geno Fan would do this, it's hard for me to believe as a whole we would have planned to go and harass numerous people. Pretty sure we would have just flipped the bird to the haters on GameFAQs and cried our eyes out at the same time, possibly in all universes simultaneously.

I also don't think this kind of thing is unique to just the Geno Thread, and I doubt this is the first time this has ever happened in Smash speculation. I think this is just the first time it got that bad on this site. But even if I'm wrong about that, now we know what both sides need to do to prevent this from happening again.

The last two things I will say that I think people aren't quite set quite right on is the attacking of people who meant no harm and defending Geno's position. I admit that we did that for the both, I saw it happen. For the former, it's called conditioning: For a positive example, if you come home from work and every Tuesday your SO gives you a peck on the cheek and a wink and that means it's time to Hulu and WooHoo, you may get thrown off when one Tuesday you pursue this first and your SO doesn't want to. A more negative one would be going out for a walk at night and someone comes up to you with specific body language and mugs you, then having thing happen to you once again next week and the week after, all using the same manner of walking and body language before attacking you. The next night you go out (assuming you even would at this point), if another person walked up with similar body language, would you not put up your dukes or otherwise be ready to defend yourselves without even knowing of their motives?

Replace body language with post structure and statements made, and you have what the Geno Thread experienced enough to lash out at people who had genuine questions because many trolls framed themselves the same way. I remember it very clearly that they would either outright be jerks with post structure with backhanded questions or act as if they were asking genuine questions and then proceeded to just blow that cover and do what they came there for. This happened weekly or even daily, so when some people chased away genuine people it starts to make more sense.

The latter is that, up until Sephiroth and not completely until his Mii Costume, there was nothing perceivably bad in Geno's way. Everyone with a brain knew a Spirit PNG wouldn't stop DLC and it got proven right soon enough, and his costume not coming back with Hero was the longest jebait in history that others also experienced before us. So, we had from November 2018 until Dec 2020 in which Ultimate itself gave us nothing but confidence. By all means, we took things that were good for any character and spun it for Geno, and we did bits of revisionist hype here and there (which I also did since my engagement during Brawl is very fuzzy in my memory, and I appreciate those who were honest with me and corrected me about the character hype trains then), and we came up with some wacky theories (although some of them like 7 Theory was a meme more than it was anything serious) but all in all it was, at the core, what Ultimate was telling us and a mix of both real and fake insider information that put us were it did.

So, when the game itself is looking good for Geno, leakers/fake leakers keep coming into your thread to say good things about Geno, Geno was being setup very well for the next Square rep, Sora and Sephiroth seemed like they weren't happening...and that period of time lasts for over two years? I think you can understand the confidence here. Also add in that we were riding the Sakurai Interview high into the first reveal in March 2018, so it was just a mix of things that brought us tall only to fall HARD and there was essentially no real warning sign until we got there, not from Sakurai, real leaks or Ultimate itself.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a FINAL final note on this topic from me (and I'll do my damnedest to stick to that this time), I see some apologies for their actions regardless of whether they really seem warranted. I won't apologize for mine personally, as I don't see anything that deems such a thing. I'll admit I got things wrong for sure and that my attitude to people here wasn't always the nicest, but I'm not the only one who got things wrong and the attitude was very much mutual during those times, but I think we've mostly moved past that and I'm down with not beating each other over the head with theories or trying to character assassinate or strawman people when the only thing we know about each other is a couple hundred posts and a profile picture. I thank those who provided me information to correct me even when it didn't break through at first and sticking with it to make sure it did, extra points to those who weren't rude in the process.

I also won't apologize for the things the Geno Thread did or may have done that were stupid, ridiculous and/or mean, and that's because I can't take the blame and apologize for a group of like a thousand individuals or so. I would regularly tell people to stop hating on characters like Sora or Hero and anyone that they may have been actually hating on because we shouldn't act like the people who come into our thread and mistreat us. I told people multiple times to consider Sora as competition and I was also openly critical of The Janitor in terms of disagreement on things. I was always one of the first to recover from disappointment and encouraged others to do the same, and I myself had to take breaks from the thread because my own fellow Geno Fans would try to put words in my mouth from time to time. If anything, that should have been the hint that something was amiss, but I just chalked it up to people being stupid and not understanding my wordy posts rather than it being an issue with the culture in that thread. For as much as I hyped things up for Geno, I consider myself reasonable and I strive to get close in terms of speculation, regardless of my favorites. Despite my wants, after his costume I said that it's still possible he could make it, but I also thought it was much more likely to be someone else. I was really hoping I could steer the Geno Thread back into a state of reasonable optimism and hope after that reveal, and I think it could have happened over time, but staff decided it was best to just nuke it instead...too which I both understand but also disagree.

At the end of the day, I'm a SMRPG Fan. It was my first RPG, even before Pokemon, and it's one of my favorite games if not my favorite. Without the randomizer, I can fire up the game at any time and just play it and enjoy myself despite having played through it countless times. I'm fighting in hopes for SMRPG to make it to SNES Online. I'm fighting in hopes of Geno and Mallow or any other unique character from SMRPG to return in things like Mario Kart or Mario Party. I'm fighting for a remaster with new content like Square has been doing or for an outright remake. I'm fighting for a sequel that takes place in the same SMRPG universe. I'm fighting for more official SMRPG merchandise. And of course, I'm fighting for Geno in Smash. I will keep doing this until I get results so that a great game that was a product of it's time gets a second chance to shine and perhaps become something even greater. I will get hype for any Smash news as I always do, I'll be excited for each character reveal as I always am. The only thing that has changed is that my harsh criticism of being very stern on leaks and only accepting official Nintendo info or credible info from leakers up until the first time they are wrong: after that they immediately have to prove themselves again.

I won't apologize for getting hype and I won't apologize for being a SMRPG fan. From here on out, my goals in the realms of Smash are to try and band Geno Support together again while avoiding what happened last time and possibly starting up a Skullgirls Support Thread since there really isn't one and I think that's criminal. Other than that, trying to get as close to the truth of what happens to Smash in the future, as always. Ultimate was a wild ride and, while I think too many mistakes were made for it to TRULY be Ultimate, I do think it fits it's name of Special to an absolute T. I'm happy with the results overall, and I hope of most you all are too.

Here's to the future of less-screwed-up Smash Speculation!

 
Last edited:

Þe 1 → Way

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 12, 2020
Messages
1,969
Location
Wouldn’t You Like To Know?
Man, I REALLY didn't want this to continue like this originally, but now that it has I'm seeing exactly what I wanted, even if not from whom I wanted to see it from, I guess I'm okay with a bit of derailing.

I'm not sure where this updated list of attacking people who thought Geno wasn't in was at. I apparently didn't get that memo. To keep the discussion about the Geno Thread as minimum as possible here since it just brings up bad old blood for people, if you can DM me this supposed list and who was making it just so we can have a small chat about it that would be nice, because I have to say that as of now this seems like a work of fiction. I'm not calling anyone a liar, but while it's not hard for me to believe that a certain Geno Fan would do this, it's hard for me to believe as a whole we would have planned to go and harass numerous people. Pretty sure we would have just flipped the bird to the haters on GameFAQs and cried our eyes out at the same time, possibly in all universes simultaneously.

I also don't think this kind of thing is unique to just the Geno Thread, and I doubt this is the first time this has ever happened in Smash speculation. I think this is just the first time it got that bad on this site. But even if I'm wrong about that, now we know what both sides need to do to prevent this from happening again.

The last two things I will say that I think people aren't quite set quite right on is the attacking of people who meant no harm and defending Geno's position. I admit that we did that for the both, I saw it happen. For the former, it's called conditioning: For a positive example, if you come home from work and every Tuesday your SO gives you a peck on the cheek and a wink and that means it's time to Hulu and WooHoo, you may get thrown off when one Tuesday you pursue this first and your SO doesn't want to. A more negative one would be going out for a walk at night and someone comes up to you with specific body language and mugs you, then having thing happen to you once again next week and the week after, all using the same manner of walking and body language before attacking you. The next night you go out (assuming you even would at this point), if another person walked up with similar body language, would you not put up your dukes or otherwise be ready to defend yourselves without even knowing of their motives?

Replace body language with post structure and statements made, and you have what the Geno Thread experienced enough to lash out at people who had genuine questions because many trolls framed themselves the same way. I remember it very clearly that they would either outright be jerks with post structure with backhanded questions or act as if they were asking genuine questions and then proceeded to just blow that cover and do what they came there for. This happened weekly or even daily, so when some people chased away genuine people it starts to make more sense.

The latter is that, up until Sephiroth and not completely until his Mii Costume, there was nothing perceivably bad in Geno's way. Everyone with a brain knew a Spirit PNG wouldn't stop DLC and it got proven right soon enough, and his costume not coming back with Hero was the longest jebait in history that others also experienced before us. So, we had from November 2018 until Dec 2020 in which Ultimate itself gave us nothing but confidence. By all means, we took things that were good for any character and spun it for Geno, and we did bits of revisionist hype here and there (which I also did since my engagement during Brawl is very fuzzy in my memory, and I appreciate those who were honest with me and corrected me about the character hype trains then), and we came up with some wacky theories (although some of them like 7 Theory was a meme more than it was anything serious) but all in all it was, at the core, what Ultimate was telling us and a mix of both real and fake insider information that put us were it did.

So, when the game itself is looking good for Geno, leakers/fake leakers keep coming into your thread to say good things about Geno, Geno was being setup very well for the next Square rep, Sora and Sephiroth seemed like they weren't happening...and that period of time lasts for over two years? I think you can understand the confidence here. Also add in that we were riding the Sakurai Interview high into the first reveal in March 2018, so it was just a mix of things that brought us tall only to fall HARD and there was essentially no real warning sign until we got there, not from Sakurai, real leaks or Ultimate itself.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a FINAL final note on this topic from me (and I'll do my damnedest to stick to that this time), I see some apologies for their actions regardless of whether they really seem warranted. I won't apologize for mine personally, as I don't see anything that deems such a thing. I'll admit I got things wrong for sure and that my attitude to people here wasn't always the nicest, but I'm not the only one who got things wrong and the attitude was very much mutual during those times, but I think we've mostly moved past that and I'm down with not beating each other over the head with theories or trying to character assassinate or strawman people when the only thing we know about each other is a couple hundred posts and a profile picture. I thank those who provided me information to correct me even when it didn't break through at first and sticking with it to make sure it did, extra points to those who weren't rude in the process.

I also won't apologize for the things the Geno Thread did or may have done that were stupid, ridiculous and/or mean, and that's because I can't take the blame and apologize for a group of like a thousand individuals or so. I would regularly tell people to stop hating on characters like Sora or Hero and anyone that they may have been actually hating on because we shouldn't act like the people who come into our thread and mistreat us. I told people multiple times to consider Sora as competition and I was also openly critical of The Janitor in terms of disagreement on things. I was always one of the first to recover from disappointment and encouraged others to do the same, and I myself had to take breaks from the thread because my own fellow Geno Fans would try to put words in my mouth from time to time. If anything, that should have been the hint that something was amiss, but I just chalked it up to people being stupid and not understanding my wordy posts rather than it being an issue with the culture in that thread. For as much as I hyped things up for Geno, I consider myself reasonable and I strive to get close in terms of speculation, regardless of my favorites. Despite my wants, after his costume I said that it's still possible he could make it, but I also thought it was much more likely to be someone else. I was really hoping I could steer the Geno Thread back into a state of reasonable optimism and hope after that reveal, and I think it could have happened over time, but staff decided it was best to just nuke it instead...too which I both understand but also disagree.

At the end of the day, I'm a SMRPG Fan. It was my first RPG, even before Pokemon, and it's one of my favorite games if not my favorite. Without the randomizer, I can fire up the game at any time and just play it and enjoy myself despite having played through it countless times. I'm fighting in hopes for SMRPG to make it to SNES Online. I'm fighting in hopes of Geno and Mallow or anything other unique character from SMRPG to return in things like Mario Kart or Mario Party. I'm fighting for a remaster with new content like Square has been doing or for an outright remake. I'm fighting for a sequel that takes place in the same SMRPG universe. I'm fighting for more official SMRPG merchandise. And of course, I'm fighting for Geno in Smash. I will keep doing this until I get results so that a great game that was a product of it's time gets a second chance to shine and perhaps become something even greater. I will get hype for any Smash news as I always do, I'll be excited for each character reveal as I always am. The only thing that has changed is that my harsh criticism of being very stern on leaks and only accepting official Nintendo info or credible info from leakers up until the first time they are wrong: after that they immediately have to prove themselves again.

I won't apologize for getting hype and I won't apologize for being a SMRPG fan. From here on out, my goals in the realms of Smash are to try and band Geno Support together again while avoiding what happened last time and possibly starting up a Skullgirls Support Thread since there really isn't one and I think that's criminal. Other than that, trying to get as close to the truth of what happens to Smash in the future, as always. Ultimate was a wild ride and, while I think too many mistakes were made for it to TRULY be Ultimate, I do think it fits it's name of Special to an absolute T. I'm happy with the results overall, and I hope most you all are too.

Here's to the future of less-screwed-up Smash Speculation!

…how do you have the energy and time to make these monoliths of posts? I need this power for essays.
 

ForsakenM

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
1,838
…how do you have the energy and time to make these monoliths of posts? I need this power for essays.
Call it a quirky autistic character trait to be dedicated, wordy and thorough. It's a blessing and a curse, mostly a curse to those trying to read it though.

It's funny, I used to just sit down and jam this out in like 20 mins or something, but now I get way more distracted and often take hours or days to finish them. ADHD mixed with the internet can be a bish...
 

Sucumbio

Smash Enforcer
Moderator
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
6,084
Location
CP - GOSHAY MS
Man, I REALLY didn't want this to continue like this originally, but now that it has I'm seeing exactly what I wanted, even if not from whom I wanted to see it from, I guess I'm okay with a bit of derailing.

I'm not sure where this updated list of attacking people who thought Geno wasn't in was at. I apparently didn't get that memo. To keep the discussion about the Geno Thread as minimum as possible here since it just brings up bad old blood for people, if you can DM me this supposed list and who was making it just so we can have a small chat about it that would be nice, because I have to say that as of now this seems like a work of fiction. I'm not calling anyone a liar, but while it's not hard for me to believe that a certain Geno Fan would do this, it's hard for me to believe as a whole we would have planned to go and harass numerous people. Pretty sure we would have just flipped the bird to the haters on GameFAQs and cried our eyes out at the same time, possibly in all universes simultaneously.

I also don't think this kind of thing is unique to just the Geno Thread, and I doubt this is the first time this has ever happened in Smash speculation. I think this is just the first time it got that bad on this site. But even if I'm wrong about that, now we know what both sides need to do to prevent this from happening again.

The last two things I will say that I think people aren't quite set quite right on is the attacking of people who meant no harm and defending Geno's position. I admit that we did that for the both, I saw it happen. For the former, it's called conditioning: For a positive example, if you come home from work and every Tuesday your SO gives you a peck on the cheek and a wink and that means it's time to Hulu and WooHoo, you may get thrown off when one Tuesday you pursue this first and your SO doesn't want to. A more negative one would be going out for a walk at night and someone comes up to you with specific body language and mugs you, then having thing happen to you once again next week and the week after, all using the same manner of walking and body language before attacking you. The next night you go out (assuming you even would at this point), if another person walked up with similar body language, would you not put up your dukes or otherwise be ready to defend yourselves without even knowing of their motives?

Replace body language with post structure and statements made, and you have what the Geno Thread experienced enough to lash out at people who had genuine questions because many trolls framed themselves the same way. I remember it very clearly that they would either outright be jerks with post structure with backhanded questions or act as if they were asking genuine questions and then proceeded to just blow that cover and do what they came there for. This happened weekly or even daily, so when some people chased away genuine people it starts to make more sense.

The latter is that, up until Sephiroth and not completely until his Mii Costume, there was nothing perceivably bad in Geno's way. Everyone with a brain knew a Spirit PNG wouldn't stop DLC and it got proven right soon enough, and his costume not coming back with Hero was the longest jebait in history that others also experienced before us. So, we had from November 2018 until Dec 2020 in which Ultimate itself gave us nothing but confidence. By all means, we took things that were good for any character and spun it for Geno, and we did bits of revisionist hype here and there (which I also did since my engagement during Brawl is very fuzzy in my memory, and I appreciate those who were honest with me and corrected me about the character hype trains then), and we came up with some wacky theories (although some of them like 7 Theory was a meme more than it was anything serious) but all in all it was, at the core, what Ultimate was telling us and a mix of both real and fake insider information that put us were it did.

So, when the game itself is looking good for Geno, leakers/fake leakers keep coming into your thread to say good things about Geno, Geno was being setup very well for the next Square rep, Sora and Sephiroth seemed like they weren't happening...and that period of time lasts for over two years? I think you can understand the confidence here. Also add in that we were riding the Sakurai Interview high into the first reveal in March 2018, so it was just a mix of things that brought us tall only to fall HARD and there was essentially no real warning sign until we got there, not from Sakurai, real leaks or Ultimate itself.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a FINAL final note on this topic from me (and I'll do my damnedest to stick to that this time), I see some apologies for their actions regardless of whether they really seem warranted. I won't apologize for mine personally, as I don't see anything that deems such a thing. I'll admit I got things wrong for sure and that my attitude to people here wasn't always the nicest, but I'm not the only one who got things wrong and the attitude was very much mutual during those times, but I think we've mostly moved past that and I'm down with not beating each other over the head with theories or trying to character assassinate or strawman people when the only thing we know about each other is a couple hundred posts and a profile picture. I thank those who provided me information to correct me even when it didn't break through at first and sticking with it to make sure it did, extra points to those who weren't rude in the process.

I also won't apologize for the things the Geno Thread did or may have done that were stupid, ridiculous and/or mean, and that's because I can't take the blame and apologize for a group of like a thousand individuals or so. I would regularly tell people to stop hating on characters like Sora or Hero and anyone that they may have been actually hating on because we shouldn't act like the people who come into our thread and mistreat us. I told people multiple times to consider Sora as competition and I was also openly critical of The Janitor in terms of disagreement on things. I was always one of the first to recover from disappointment and encouraged others to do the same, and I myself had to take breaks from the thread because my own fellow Geno Fans would try to put words in my mouth from time to time. If anything, that should have been the hint that something was amiss, but I just chalked it up to people being stupid and not understanding my wordy posts rather than it being an issue with the culture in that thread. For as much as I hyped things up for Geno, I consider myself reasonable and I strive to get close in terms of speculation, regardless of my favorites. Despite my wants, after his costume I said that it's still possible he could make it, but I also thought it was much more likely to be someone else. I was really hoping I could steer the Geno Thread back into a state of reasonable optimism and hope after that reveal, and I think it could have happened over time, but staff decided it was best to just nuke it instead...too which I both understand but also disagree.

At the end of the day, I'm a SMRPG Fan. It was my first RPG, even before Pokemon, and it's one of my favorite games if not my favorite. Without the randomizer, I can fire up the game at any time and just play it and enjoy myself despite having played through it countless times. I'm fighting in hopes for SMRPG to make it to SNES Online. I'm fighting in hopes of Geno and Mallow or any other unique character from SMRPG to return in things like Mario Kart or Mario Party. I'm fighting for a remaster with new content like Square has been doing or for an outright remake. I'm fighting for a sequel that takes place in the same SMRPG universe. I'm fighting for more official SMRPG merchandise. And of course, I'm fighting for Geno in Smash. I will keep doing this until I get results so that a great game that was a product of it's time gets a second chance to shine and perhaps become something even greater. I will get hype for any Smash news as I always do, I'll be excited for each character reveal as I always am. The only thing that has changed is that my harsh criticism of being very stern on leaks and only accepting official Nintendo info or credible info from leakers up until the first time they are wrong: after that they immediately have to prove themselves again.

I won't apologize for getting hype and I won't apologize for being a SMRPG fan. From here on out, my goals in the realms of Smash are to try and band Geno Support together again while avoiding what happened last time and possibly starting up a Skullgirls Support Thread since there really isn't one and I think that's criminal. Other than that, trying to get as close to the truth of what happens to Smash in the future, as always. Ultimate was a wild ride and, while I think too many mistakes were made for it to TRULY be Ultimate, I do think it fits it's name of Special to an absolute T. I'm happy with the results overall, and I hope of most you all are too.

Here's to the future of less-screwed-up Smash Speculation!

I think resolution is what you sought and I see a few users here have offered their apologies fwiw... The one poster you didn't hear from well... Oh well lol can't force people... I think going forward we should absolutely not revisit this topic so I appreciate your candor and I hope whatever further resolution you seek you find it (at least in pms or whatever). Being that much of the discussion was based around banned users involved staff decisions and the like it's definitely time to move along with all this so I also appreciate your assertion that you will. If anyone else wishes to discuss this topic please keep it to pm's. Thanks.
 

Shroob

Sup?
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
34,015
Location
Washington
Really though, he-who-must-not-be-named is one of the glaring issues the thread had tbh.


There's a reason why googling his name, you're going to find people on several sites likening him to a cult leader. I saw it all the time while lurking 4chan for funsies looking for fake leaks, people kept hammering in how he's "indoctrinated" a buncha people, and it just wasn't a good look for the thread tbh.
 

Momotsuki

Smash Champion
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
2,256
Location
endleSSS
I think Plumpfellowoncold might be the only person throughout the entire ordeal I'd be willing to call an explicit bad actor rather than merely another person caught up in the whirlwind.

Playing with the emotions of people the way he did is pretty ****ed up. He should have known where that would lead. But maybe he did? Maybe that's why he did it? He presented himself a sort of community leader, set them up for a nasty fall - all while playing up this conflict between the Geno thread and the entire rest of this site.

Before you dunk on the people that believed him, consider that this was a character a lot of those folks had wanted for a long time, and this guy wanted them to know that he was definitely totally happening, and this and that is why.
If it was your MW, would you have drank the koolaid? It's easy to say you wouldn't, but... I dunno. I think I would've, for as much as that hurts to admit.
 
Last edited:

7NATOR

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
3,914
Trying to guess the Ballot results based on Top 5, Top 10, perhaps even Top 20 would be very hard. I'll just give my take on general type of Placements

-Sora was Number 1 (Confirmed)

-Bayonetta did really Good, Probably Top 10 altogether when taking into Account America, Europe, and Japan. Was top in Europe and at least Top 5 in U.S (Among realizable characters)

-Inkling was definitely Top

-K.Rool and Banjo were definitely Top

-Ridley was probably like Bayonetta in doing really good in America and Europe, but not good in Japan. Being a Boss in Smash 4 might have made him Lower than usual, or perhaps had the Opposite effect

-Snake and Wolf were definitely the most Popular Veterans. I'm sure all Veterans did decent though

-Castlevania did Good, but I don't think the Franchise was the most high up there, or Top. I think the main thing was that since they already had Konami on Board to get Snake back, Castlevania was on the Table

-Isabelle probably did better than we might think, I don't think Top, but somewhat Decent

-Chrom Did really good in Japan, and probably had some Decent Results in West. Dark Samus got good amount of votes, alot of it probably because some voters though Ridley was Impossible (due to him being a Boss). doubt any presence in Japan

-Waluigi Did better than Daisy, but Daisy still did really good, and she could be an Echo, so that's the Advantage she had


-Street Fighter, Final Fantasy, Minecraft, and Dragon Quest probably did decent/good on the Ballot. Ryu probably had some good initial votes until Ryu was revealed.

-Tekken probably did decent. of the Mishimas, Kazuya got the least I suspect

-I don't think Persona and King of Fighters did all that good, being very honest. They had some votes of course, but I don't think we can contribute the ballot to them


-Isaac obviously Did good since he's one of only 2 Assists to come back (and Gray Fox was only Missing because Konami and Metal Gear were not involved with Smash 4). He also got Mii Costumes and Golden Sun got lots of Spirits

-Krystal did probably do decent, but was overshadowed by Wolf I Imagine still.

-Rhythm Heaven perhaps got some votes in there. They did get lots of Spirits and music Tracks yes.

-Waluigi and Geno were the most highest Performing Mario characters. I don't think Geno killed the ballot, but he had to have done Good I Imagine. I don't think Nintendo took the Waluigi requests too seriously, but after Ultimate, that's an entirely different Story

-Toad perhaps being more involved with Peach's Grabs was perhaps a result of some Ballot presence.

-Bandana Dee did some good, but it was not enough against the Power of Sakurai Bias

-I think Dixie did good on the Ballot, but she was just Overshadowed by K.Rool. Judging by the Evolved spirit she has (with Kiddy Kong) I think Sakurai does have future plans for her, and is also a reason she wasn't made an Echo

-Ashley had some love on the Ballot, especially from Japan perhaps

-Black Knight had to have had some sort of Presence. I think Japan was the biggest factor in this. Tiki also was among this

-Smaller Franchises like Chibi Robo and Ray Mk 11 had to have had some sort of presence. Not too much, but enough to get Costumes


-Monster Hunter likely had some "Monster" Results on the Ballot, especially in Japan.

-Phoenix might have also been among the Highest voted characters on the Ballot, or at the least did really good. He might be one of the unrealizable characters, and unlike with Sora which intially had to do with the Company, with Phoenix it's probably a Combination of his Nicheness as well as the type of game he's from

-Resident Evil also was very "Resident" with the Ballot, and did really good. Leon might have had the most votes personally, but could also see Jill.

-Dante probably did not have the best Results at the time. he had some presence, but I think the amount of attention he has then compared to now is Night and day

-Zero likely did really good, enough to get an Assist Trophy

-Sonic as a Franchise Did really good I Imagine, but was probably very Split between the combination of Tails, Shadow, & Knuckles.

-Arle did really good among Japan I Imagine

-Bomberman made an Explosion on the Ballot results, but not enough to Make him Playable.

-Tales of Did really good on the Ballot I Imagine. Will the Franchise be able to get playable character, we have to see

-Rayman was definitely up there I think in Europe and America, especially after the "Leak" made people really appreciate the Rayman

-Just because of the Presence they have in Gaming, I'm sure Halo and Mortal Kombat had some presence on the Ballot, though I think most of this would come from America and Europe. Perhaps add God of War and Maybe Skyrim to that also

-Among Indies, I think Shovel Knight did the best. Shantae did good, Sans did really good, and Freddy did have some presence on the Ballot

-Goku, Spongebob, Shrek Probably did have some good results, but I really don't think they won the ballot like I've heard from some people. I think more people followed the rules than not
 

Garteam

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I think it's fair to say Dragon Quest did relatively well on the ballot. Sakurai mentioned that there were a lot of requests for a character from the series when discussing Hero with Yuji Horii and, given the series' mainstream popularity in Japan, it's not too out there to imagine many Japanese fans backed their favourite DQ character in the poll.

If I had to wager a guess, Erdrick and Slime were likely the most popular Dragon Quest characters on the ballot. Eight almost certainly did the best in the West, but I doubt he ranked particularly high or anything.
 

Guynamednelson

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Eight almost certainly did the best in the West, but I doubt he ranked particularly high or anything.
He did enough for Sakurai to make him an alt, at least. I think he's mentioned that Western ballot support is why Eight is among our playable Heroes.
 

N3ON

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I'm not sure where this updated list of attacking people who thought Geno wasn't in was at. I apparently didn't get that memo. To keep the discussion about the Geno Thread as minimum as possible here since it just brings up bad old blood for people, if you can DM me this supposed list and who was making it just so we can have a small chat about it that would be nice, because I have to say that as of now this seems like a work of fiction. I'm not calling anyone a liar, but while it's not hard for me to believe that a certain Geno Fan would do this, it's hard for me to believe as a whole we would have planned to go and harass numerous people. Pretty sure we would have just flipped the bird to the haters on GameFAQs and cried our eyes out at the same time, possibly in all universes simultaneously.
I assure you, as a name on the list, to which I had people reach out to inform me of while I was taking a break from this site (meaning whatever statement of mine was being invoked wasn't even current), this was not a fictional event. It was rather memorable, and again it sort of makes me question your recollection to just be hearing about it now. If I recall correctly, it lead to that user being banned temporarily.

Digging for it is quite literally looking for trouble, so I wouldn't advise it, but... it's not some grand fabrication detractors rehearsed. It definitely happened.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Really though, he-who-must-not-be-named is one of the glaring issues the thread had tbh.


There's a reason why googling his name, you're going to find people on several sites likening him to a cult leader. I saw it all the time while lurking 4chan for funsies looking for fake leaks, people kept hammering in how he's "indoctrinated" a buncha people, and it just wasn't a good look for the thread tbh.
I thought we agreed the other person whose name begins with an S is to be dubbed He Who Must Not Be Named
Trying to guess the Ballot results based on Top 5, Top 10, perhaps even Top 20 would be very hard. I'll just give my take on general type of Placements

-Sora was Number 1 (Confirmed)

-Bayonetta did really Good, Probably Top 10 altogether when taking into Account America, Europe, and Japan. Was top in Europe and at least Top 5 in U.S (Among realizable characters)

-Inkling was definitely Top

-K.Rool and Banjo were definitely Top

-Ridley was probably like Bayonetta in doing really good in America and Europe, but not good in Japan. Being a Boss in Smash 4 might have made him Lower than usual, or perhaps had the Opposite effect

-Snake and Wolf were definitely the most Popular Veterans. I'm sure all Veterans did decent though

-Castlevania did Good, but I don't think the Franchise was the most high up there, or Top. I think the main thing was that since they already had Konami on Board to get Snake back, Castlevania was on the Table

-Isabelle probably did better than we might think, I don't think Top, but somewhat Decent

-Chrom Did really good in Japan, and probably had some Decent Results in West. Dark Samus got good amount of votes, alot of it probably because some voters though Ridley was Impossible (due to him being a Boss). doubt any presence in Japan

-Waluigi Did better than Daisy, but Daisy still did really good, and she could be an Echo, so that's the Advantage she had


-Street Fighter, Final Fantasy, Minecraft, and Dragon Quest probably did decent/good on the Ballot. Ryu probably had some good initial votes until Ryu was revealed.

-Tekken probably did decent. of the Mishimas, Kazuya got the least I suspect

-I don't think Persona and King of Fighters did all that good, being very honest. They had some votes of course, but I don't think we can contribute the ballot to them


-Isaac obviously Did good since he's one of only 2 Assists to come back (and Gray Fox was only Missing because Konami and Metal Gear were not involved with Smash 4). He also got Mii Costumes and Golden Sun got lots of Spirits

-Krystal did probably do decent, but was overshadowed by Wolf I Imagine still.

-Rhythm Heaven perhaps got some votes in there. They did get lots of Spirits and music Tracks yes.

-Waluigi and Geno were the most highest Performing Mario characters. I don't think Geno killed the ballot, but he had to have done Good I Imagine. I don't think Nintendo took the Waluigi requests too seriously, but after Ultimate, that's an entirely different Story

-Toad perhaps being more involved with Peach's Grabs was perhaps a result of some Ballot presence.

-Bandana Dee did some good, but it was not enough against the Power of Sakurai Bias

-I think Dixie did good on the Ballot, but she was just Overshadowed by K.Rool. Judging by the Evolved spirit she has (with Kiddy Kong) I think Sakurai does have future plans for her, and is also a reason she wasn't made an Echo

-Ashley had some love on the Ballot, especially from Japan perhaps

-Black Knight had to have had some sort of Presence. I think Japan was the biggest factor in this. Tiki also was among this

-Smaller Franchises like Chibi Robo and Ray Mk 11 had to have had some sort of presence. Not too much, but enough to get Costumes


-Monster Hunter likely had some "Monster" Results on the Ballot, especially in Japan.

-Phoenix might have also been among the Highest voted characters on the Ballot, or at the least did really good. He might be one of the unrealizable characters, and unlike with Sora which intially had to do with the Company, with Phoenix it's probably a Combination of his Nicheness as well as the type of game he's from

-Resident Evil also was very "Resident" with the Ballot, and did really good. Leon might have had the most votes personally, but could also see Jill.

-Dante probably did not have the best Results at the time. he had some presence, but I think the amount of attention he has then compared to now is Night and day

-Zero likely did really good, enough to get an Assist Trophy

-Sonic as a Franchise Did really good I Imagine, but was probably very Split between the combination of Tails, Shadow, & Knuckles.

-Arle did really good among Japan I Imagine

-Bomberman made an Explosion on the Ballot results, but not enough to Make him Playable.

-Tales of Did really good on the Ballot I Imagine. Will the Franchise be able to get playable character, we have to see

-Rayman was definitely up there I think in Europe and America, especially after the "Leak" made people really appreciate the Rayman

-Just because of the Presence they have in Gaming, I'm sure Halo and Mortal Kombat had some presence on the Ballot, though I think most of this would come from America and Europe. Perhaps add God of War and Maybe Skyrim to that also

-Among Indies, I think Shovel Knight did the best. Shantae did good, Sans did really good, and Freddy did have some presence on the Ballot

-Goku, Spongebob, Shrek Probably did have some good results, but I really don't think they won the ballot like I've heard from some people. I think more people followed the rules than not
Goemon had a Mii. I wonder how he did since he had a game on N64
 
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