Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Cutie Gwen]

At this point there's so many people who've known Smash with third parties compared to those who believed Ness, Ice Climber and Roy are genuine Nintendo All Stars because the back of the box said so that this argument just becomes white noise

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, Paper Mario, Captain Toad, Krystal, Isaac, Skull Kid, Waluigi, Ashley….and oops I already mentioned Ashley who’s like….yeah third party’s a pretty good choice to make overall. Still stings for those feeling left behind in discourse though. Didn’t count any Splatoon characters because they’re very recent additions to the discussion and I feel “new first party characters” do get that share of the speculation pie but I felt the Rie like breathing down my neck. Ring Fit Trainer and Astral Chain Person also falls under this

You forgot to say the E word

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You forgot to say the E word

Yeah. Enormous Chozo from Dread

 

[Dinoman96]

Time to update this baby one last time

 

[Guynamednelson]

That said, I would definitely be fine with a bigger emphasis on 1st Parties if thats what the team wants to do next time.

Well, they're gonna deal with the fact that a group will be alienated somehow no matter what Smash does in the future. If they just port Ultimate, they'll alienate people who want new stuff. If they prioritize newcomers, they alienate fans of certain veterans. Remember, Everyone Is Here was already a difficult, sacrifice-requiring task, and that was BEFORE Disney and Koichi Sugiyama got involved.

 

[N3ON]

At this point there's so many people who've known Smash with third parties compared to those who believed Ness, Ice Climber and Roy are genuine Nintendo All Stars because the back of the box said so that this argument just becomes white noise

People are just saying they still want first-parties too. No one even said anything about some All Stars, so you might want to get that white noise you're hearing checked out.

Time to update this baby one last time

**** if that isn't this

To a tee.

 

[MAtgSy]

 

[3BitSaurus]

That's honestly what I'm feeling too: although it's worth noting that not only will first / second parties be easier to acquire (making them well-suited for base games) they're also good avenues for moveset experimentation. It's evident in the newcomers from 4 and Ultimate, whether from popular series ( ) or from more niché series (like dareIsayit ).

Still though, at this point we've had two successive games where DLC newcomers have been mainly third parties. It may as well be the norm for future (newcomer) DLC unless that changes. Veterans might be easier to re-introduce in future games since they'll have the Ultimate template to tinker with (akin to , and having previous templates).

True, but on the other hand I feel like the 4 newcomers could have used... a little less experimentation, dare I say. Mac's gameplan sounds interesting on paper, but it just doesn't work in reality. And I love Shulk and XC1, yet I can't play him to save my life because they gave him some weird gimmick instead of using a playstyle more akin to what he used in his original game.

If anything, I think they should experiment with new first party series. It can't hurt to look beyond what's in the current console generation or the previous one.

 

[7NATOR]

For those of you still on the boards, who would you say is your favourite third party character?

//////Poor Terry on his own...

Unsure actually. It's a Toss up between Cloud, Sephiroth, and Kazuya. Sora could also be added, but got to play as him

If Sonic had a Cooler Moveset he would go up. I think his moveset is Canonically accurate, but I have to agree with many others that he's sort of lacking that Flair. Also TWO Spindashes

---------------------------------------

On the Topic of 1st parties, If I had to choose 10 1st Party characters I think would be in Smash 6, it would be this

-Waluigi
-Dixie
-Skull Kid
-Isaac
-Bandana Dee
-Gen 8 Pokemon
-Ring Fit
-Akira Howard
-Octoling
-Xenoblade Chronicles 3 Protag



Akira, Ring Fit, Octoling, Gen 8 Pokemon, and Xenoblade Chronicles 3 Protag would be the characters to show off the Switch Library. On the topic of Gen 8 Pokemon, because the game is out and there was also that Popularity poll, we might be able to get a Pokemon that's not a Starter for once.

I want to give nod to Toxicricty as not only is it among the Most popular of Gen 8, but it could perhaps also have a Rhythm Gimmick due to it being a Rockstar. Rhythm Heaven is a Series that was planned with Playable characters, and it was the Non-playable first party franchise to get the more spirits along with Golden Sun. However I'm unsure if it get in now due to Series Dormancy.

Xenoblade Chronicles I think is gonna become the New Fire Emblem. Thanks to both 2 and Definitive edition's success, I think Nintendo and Sakurai are more confident in giving the Series the Red Carpet tratment

Waluigi, Dixie, Bandana Dee, Skull Kid, and Isaac would be the characters to get in because of requests. I see Waluigi as perhaps a Tribute to Reggie, because Reggie went to Sakurai to tell him about the Waluigi Support

 

[Guynamednelson]

Gen 8 Pokemon

Gen 8 will be old hat by then, GF will want to push Gen 9/10 by then.

 

[Ridrool64]

Time to update this baby one last time

I think this has a lot to do with why third parties overwhelmingly took over speculation the way they did.

Pretty much everybody on the left bar Ryu, Bayo and Terry got a rave reception when they showed up (and even those guys were still well liked, they just weren't able to drown out the haters back then), and everybody on the right was tolerated at best. I think it's telling that outside of people happy for Spirit promotions being a thing in Min Min's case (which means they cared less about the character and more about her implications for speculation), Pythra got by far the best reception, while outside of the post-Hero pre-Banjo wait, the one with the worst reception was probably Bayo and even then I can't definitively say that.

That's not to say I think the guys on the left are all amazing (well I do, but that's not the point), or that everybody on the right sucks and their fans are liars about being fans. But what I do think is that the fact that DLC trends towards more controversial first parties and more warmly welcomed third parties... kinda skews the balance in third party's favor.

In the base game it wasn't so bad. Fan favorite first parties felt like they had an honest shot. The biggest four reveals were all first parties. But in the DLC it's another story.

 

[Ivander]

I'd say it's for the best. Try replacing all of them with Nintendo characters and you'll have multiple bottom of the barrel picks tbh. Plus, I strongly dislike the whole Nintendo Purist angle as if third party companies haven't made absolute gems available on Nintendo systems for decades

Hmm, let's see:

1. Waluigi
2. Paper Mario
3. Dixie Kong
4. Ashley
5. Zelda Rep, like Impa, Midna or Ghirahim.
6. Bandana Dee
7. Krystal
8. Pokemon Rep, whether from Gen 5, Gen 8, Gen 3, etc.
9. Lyndis
10. Medusa or Hades
11. Elma
12. Octolings
13. Isaac
14. Advance Wars rep(this is a bit iffy when this is mainly relying on Western popularity with no knowledge of Japanese popularity).
15. Rhythm Heaven rep
16. Alph......if he got the Clone/Echo Fighter treatment.

After that, it starts to get close to the barrel bottom picking, if we don't resort to picks that Sakurai was interested in, like Saki, Takamaru, Balloon Fighter, Mach Rider, etc or recent games like Ring Fit Adventure or Astral Chain. Basically, I chose the reps that either were frequently talked about/wanted, very popular like Waluigi, Isaac or Lyndis, or in the case of Dixie Kong and Rhythm Heaven, were planned.

I'm obviously not saying they are preferred(not in some people's cases) over the 3rd Parties when people would like most of the 3rd parties who share their history with Nintendo and the ones not really expected for really bring their own awesome factors and whatnot. The 3rd Parties obviously bring their flair to Smash that makes Smash more than just Nintendo games and whatnot.
But there wouldn't be a whole lot of bottom of the barrel picks in regards to Nintendo picks. The most the barrel bottom picks would be are the ones Sakurai would more likely choose himself, whereas the ones I listed are still requested or were heavily requested at one point or another. Or were planned, like Dixie or Rhythm Heaven.

And nothing states that bottom of the barrel picks can't be cool in their own right. Stuff like Custom Robo, Dillon, Sukapon, Sin & Punishment, etc are pretty cool in their own right and can bring their own uniqueness to a cast of characters of many colors, genres, styles, etc.

 

[drag0nscythe]

At this point there's so many people who've known Smash with third parties compared to those who believed Ness, Ice Climber and Roy are genuine Nintendo All Stars because the back of the box said so that this argument just becomes white noise

They were all white noise when "Everyone is here" was announced. That was 64 names in one video and unless people had been following smash the entire time, none of the characters would have stood out. Well. outside of Snake because he was the big announcement character.

 

[N3ON]

Unsure actually. It's a Toss up between Cloud, Sephiroth, and Kazuya. Sora could also be added, but got to play as him

If Sonic had a Cooler Moveset he would go up. I think his moveset is Canonically accurate, but I have to agree with many others that he's sort of lacking that Flair. Also TWO Spindashes

---------------------------------------

On the Topic of 1st parties, If I had to choose 10 1st Party characters I think would be in Smash 6, it would be this

-Waluigi
-Dixie
-Skull Kid
-Isaac
-Bandana Dee
-Gen 8 Pokemon
-Ring Fit
-Akira Howard
-Octoling
-Xenoblade Chronicles 3 Protag



Akira, Ring Fit, Octoling, Gen 8 Pokemon, and Xenoblade Chronicles 3 Protag would be the characters to show off the Switch Library. On the topic of Gen 8 Pokemon, because the game is out and there was also that Popularity poll, we might be able to get a Pokemon that's not a Starter for once.

I want to give nod to Toxicricty as not only is it among the Most popular of Gen 8, but it could perhaps also have a Rhythm Gimmick due to it being a Rockstar. Rhythm Heaven is a Series that was planned with Playable characters, and it was the Non-playable first party franchise to get the more spirits along with Golden Sun. However I'm unsure if it get in now due to Series Dormancy.

Xenoblade Chronicles I think is gonna become the New Fire Emblem. Thanks to both 2 and Definitive edition's success, I think Nintendo and Sakurai are more confident in giving the Series the Red Carpet tratment

Waluigi, Dixie, Bandana Dee, Skull Kid, and Isaac would be the characters to get in because of requests. I see Waluigi as perhaps a Tribute to Reggie, because Reggie went to Sakurai to tell him about the Waluigi Support

Probably
-Waluigi
-Ring Fit
-Xenoblade Chronicles 3 Protag (or whoever is newest)

Maybe
-Dixie
-Akira Howard (if/when AC2 happens then "Probably")
-Octoling

Better hope
-Isaac
-Skull Kid
-Bandana Dee

Long since phased out
-Gen 8 Pokemon

 

[drag0nscythe]

Hmm, let's see:

1. Waluigi
2. Paper Mario
3. Dixie Kong
4. Ashley
5. Zelda Rep, like Impa, Midna or Ghirahim.
6. Bandana Dee
7. Krystal
8. Pokemon Rep, whether from Gen 5, Gen 8, Gen 3, etc.
9. Lyndis
10. Medusa or Hades
11. Elma
12. Octolings
13. Isaac
14. Advance Wars rep(this is a bit iffy when this is mainly relying on Western popularity with no knowledge of Japanese popularity).
15. Rhythm Heaven rep
16. Alph......if he got the Clone/Echo Fighter treatment.

After that, it starts to get close to the barrel bottom picking, if we don't resort to picks that Sakurai was interested in, like Saki, Takamaru, Balloon Fighter, Mach Rider, etc or recent games like Ring Fit Adventure or Astral Chain. Basically, I chose the reps that either were frequently talked about/wanted, very popular like Waluigi, Isaac or Lyndis, or in the case of Dixie Kong and Rhythm Heaven, were planned.

I'm obviously not saying they are preferred(not in some people's cases) over the 3rd Parties when people would like most of the 3rd parties who share their history with Nintendo and the ones not really expected for really bring their own awesome factors and whatnot. The 3rd Parties obviously bring their flair to Smash that makes Smash more than just Nintendo games and whatnot.
But there wouldn't be a whole lot of bottom of the barrel picks in regards to Nintendo picks. The most the barrel bottom picks would be are the ones Sakurai would more likely choose himself, whereas the ones I listed are still requested or were heavily requested at one point or another. Or were planned, like Dixie or Rhythm Heaven.

And nothing states that bottom of the barrel picks can't be cool in their own right. Stuff like Custom Robo, Dillon, Sukapon, Sin & Punishment, etc are pretty cool in their own right and can bring their own uniqueness to a cast of characters of many colors, genres, styles, etc.

Starfy and Captain Rainbow and Dillion want to join your character party.
and Doc Louis.
and Famicom Detective Girl. (dont want to mispell her name)

 

[7NATOR]

Gen 8 will be old hat by then, GF will want to push Gen 9/10 by then.

I guess it depends on when Smash 6 comes out. I'm Optimistic and could actually see Smash 6 coming out Late 2024/Early 2025, with Development starting sometime in 2022.

Then again even then I could see Gen 9 come out around this time, but I Imagine it being around 2023 or 2024, due to the focus on the Remakes and Legends Arceus, with the latter being 2022. It might even be later, perhaps too late for Smash 6 Base roster

The thing is that Gen 8 Is the Pokemon game that's the Fastest selling, and I think perhaps among the best selling, perhaps even the best Selling. It's a Pokemon game that has garnered new audience of people who never played Pokemon before, which is why I could still see it get a character. Perhaps we might get both Gen 8 and Gen 9 (whether both on Base or Gen 9 as DLC). However since they have skipped Generations before, than yes

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Resetera is splintering into new sites after that, uh, "hiccup" with some of their mods, shockingly, not being great people. Which is ironic, because that's how resetera started in the first place, from NeoGAF. Anyway, one of them is a Nintendo-oriented forum. It just started, and here I have a historic moment to share with everyone, rarer and more elusive than any shiny Pokemon ever was:

View attachment 333497

Looked up the site and it feels kinda... Cozy I should say

Although with reset era users moving to that site I feel like it's going to be resetera all over again. Half of those users on that site literally don't think before they post

 

[Momotsuki]

The only first-party character left that I want is Porky. There's plenty that I'd be down for, but he's the only one I actively want.
Meanwhile there's so many banger third parties they could go with, so many that I don't even know about right now...
I think I'm happy that DLC leaned heavily into third parties over first parties.
Ultimate is ultimate because it's bloody impossible. I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Guynamednelson]

The only first-party character left that I want is Porky. There's plenty that I'd be down for, but he's the only one I actively want.
Meanwhile there's so many banger third parties they could go with, so many that I don't even know about right now...
I think I'm happy that DLC leaned heavily into third parties over first parties.
Ultimate is ultimate because it's bloody impossible. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Meanwhile I got mostly every third party I really REALLY wanted in FP1, so that's probably why I was so insistent on hoping for more first-parties in FP2.

 

[toonito]

For those of you still on the boards, who would you say is your favourite third party character?

//////Poor Terry on his own...

the "fighties", Snake, Megaman, Cloud, Hero, and Sora

Unrelated but I support turning this thread into a "Smash 6 Speculation/Wishlist" Thread as i feel most conversations regarding Smash after Sora comes out will circle back to that topic anyway.

 

[Shroob]

Dunno if it's been said yet, but they'll absolutely need to patch Ultimate a few times next year, if only due to updating for Amiibo support.

I kinda doubt they'll have Amiibo support for all 6(8?) FP2 Amiibo ready in Sora's patch.

 

[Ivander]

For those of you still on the boards, who would you say is your favourite third party character?

//////Poor Terry on his own...

Castlevania is my favourite overall.

That said, can't wait to see what new 3rd Parties series come for the next Smash.

 

[MooMew64]

Dunno if it's been said yet, but they'll absolutely need to patch Ultimate a few times next year, if only due to updating for Amiibo support.

I kinda doubt they'll have Amiibo support for all 6(8?) FP2 Amiibo ready in Sora's patch.

Have they confirmed if Sora's getting one? Or is Kazuya the last one? Sakurai didn't make that clear in the presentation AFAIK.

 

[Shroob]

Have they confirmed if Sora's getting one? Or is Kazuya the last one? Sakurai didn't make that clear in the presentation AFAIK.

They did not.

I'd be surprised if Sora is the lone exception, but it is possible I assume.

 

[MooMew64]

They did not.

I'd be surprised if Sora is the lone exception, but it is possible I assume.

I imagine it's in the works, it's probably just not ready to show yet.

With how much merch there is of Sora already, I'd be floored to see them skip an amiibo. Time will tell, but it's something they could just drop on social media sometime around December/January.

I'm curious how long balance patches will last, though. Didn't they dry up on Sm4sh pretty quick after Bayo?

 

[N3ON]

Forget all first-parties, I could make a roster just of ATs that I'd be extremely happy with.

I'm not claiming this would be more hype than a bunch of big name third-parties, but I'd love it.
And yes, I know there are third-parties here.

 

[ForsakenM]

Bruh, I know a lot of people are salty for the most petty reasons possible right now...

But I'm just sitting here trying to accept the reality that Banjo & Kazooie and Sora are not only in the same game, but that the name of that game is Smash Ultimate.

Dinoman96 that picture you posted is breaking my brain. God, even without a lot of the long list of characters being in, we really are still spoiled as hell.

 

[Shroob]

It's kinda funny

Sakurai's all like "Steve AND Alex"

Yet she doesn't even appear on the CSS

 

[Dan Quixote]

It's less about third-parties for me and more that I wanna see as many universes represented in Smash as possible, since that's the real hype stuff to me. Like I know Sonic probably "deserves" a second fighter, but I can't lie, I would probably be more hyped for Arle than Shadow even though I've played a lot of Sonic games and Puyo Puyo only on Switch. It's just that Arle would bring over a whole new series! And that's cool to me.

So yeah, I want first parties who can accomplish that like Isaac or Paper Mario (PM is a distinct enough series from the platformers to me) but care less about the other first parties like Waluigi or Skull Kid whose series is already in the game.

 

[Deleted member]

It's been just over a day and I really have to say the last Mii Costume wave is a pretty big disappointment. 2 hats and 1 full costume? Doom Slayer may be pretty cool to see, but there was definitely room for a few more than just those 3.

 

[FreeFox]

Only one thing to say here:

 

[Nemuresu]

For those of you still on the boards, who would you say is your favourite third party character?

//////Poor Terry on his own...

Ranking them from Best to Worst:
1.-
2.-
3.-
4.-
5.-
6.- Sora
7.-
8.-
9.-
10.-
11.-
12.-
13.-
14.-
15.-
16.-
17.-
18.-

And some explanations:
*The fighting game characters are on top because they're my favorites to play. Ken is only in the bottom because he's an echo, but he's still fun, and Ryu is second because if it weren't for him, the other three wouldn't be in the game at all.
*Richter is league below Simon because there's really nothing going for him other than catching people off-guard, and since he doesn't have any sort of unique properties over Simon, there's not that much reason to play with him.
*Even if I don't play him much anymore, it's thanks to Snake that other third-parties could appear in Smash, so he gets a high spot.
*And finally, there's Sonic. I don't think I've ever seen such a fall from grace from announcement to being almost forgotten. His moveset hasn't aged well and the lack of content in some areas (music especially) has really made him uninteresting in retrospective.

Also, remember when this was the peak of Smash seven years ago?

It's really funny to think about how bigger the the crossover factor became ever since this. People wouldn't have thought of guys like Simon Belmont or Kazuya back in 2014.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It's kinda funny

Sakurai's all like "Steve AND Alex"

Yet she doesn't even appear on the CSS

Forget that, Zombie and Enderman are ignored

#JusticeForZombieAndEnderman

 

[Wunderwaft]

Forget all first-parties, I could make a roster just of ATs that I'd be extremely happy with.

I'm not claiming this would be more hype than a bunch of big name third-parties, but I'd love it.
And yes, I know there are third-parties here.

I would kill to have more than just one or two AT promotions for the next game. Most of my most wanted first parties are ATs that I want to see playable.

 

[PeridotGX]

I don't think the first party well is dry. Here's a roster of 40 potential options. This isn't even a comprehensive list.

 

[subterrestrial]

tbh one can argue smash ultimate is one of the best videogames ever made

its not a good argument, but it can be made

 

[N3ON]

tbh one can argue smash ultimate is one of the best videogames ever made

its not a good argument, but it can be made

I wouldn't contend an argument that Smash Ultimate is undoubtably one of the most impressive video games ever made.

 

[toonito]

my most wanted AT promotions:

 

[Shroob]

I'd say Smash Ultimate wins a fight in that it's probably the most ambitious and impressive crossover game of all time.


Not like it has a lot of competition outside of Marvel vs Capcom, or SNK vs Capcom.

 

[Dan Quixote]

Genuine question, like for serious

Is Fortnite or SSBU the better crossover?

Fortnite has much further reach with its crossovers but Smash uses the crossover aspect much more deeply