Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[drag0nscythe]

Now, to be completely fair to these people, I do agree Smash has a representation problem; Smash is a game played around the world and nobody should have to feel alienated. We have Little Mac, Min Min, and a few alts for a few characters, but other than that, it's easy to imagine that some would feel a bit put-off by the lack of PoC representation.

With all this said, I don't think it's at all fair to assume this stems from some kind of intentional, malicious bigotry, but rather almost certainly comes from cultural ignorance. It's a Japanese video game created almost entirely by Japanese people, and Japan is, unfortunately, a very ethnically homogenous country.

This does not mean that the lopsided representation is A-OK and can be ignored, but rather that solving the problem has to be approached differently than assuming "well, they must be racist." Allowing localization teams to get a bit closer to the main development process could prove helpful in this regard, along with for preventing unfortunate coincidences as seen with a few spirits, another point of contention that I feel about the same on.
Really, even focusing more on diversity with costume selections would be a great start. Ultimate shows a little promise there, but only a little.

Smash is about large game icons. The solution to this "lopsided" problem is to make more gaming icons of color. I seriously doubt anyone would complain if a character of color gets the size of Bayonetta or inkling, etc.

And I mean real characters. not setero types that people think make characters. Like Katt from Gravity falls. or Emitt Graves from War hawk.

 

[7NATOR]

It's been nearly 24 hours since the reveal. How do you guys feel about Sora?

Me? A pretty fitting way to end. Sora may have not been amongst my most wanted but it's clear he was the most requested character for Smash and so what better way than ending it with a bang and happy for the Sora fans, they more then definitely earn it after how long they've waited.

I'm still impressed Sakurai, the madman managed to do it. Do what was probably the biggest impossible.

The game certainly lives up to its title with so many fan favorites added.

I still think it's Weird that Sora is actually in the game, and I mean weird in a good way, It's kind of Surreal

Also I've more come around to his Moveset mostly being based of KH1. I think the one thing I would say Is I think they should have just made the Down B a Block that could stagger, without the Counter Attack. I think it would have actually made it more Unique that way

I Like that Sora is in the game. There were some disappointing aspects like only so few tracks and no Disney, but that's to be expected to be honest. I want to get my Hands on Sora and try him out

I also think Sora also leaves a good Precedent for Smash 6. I know people see him as the End for right now, but I'm starting to see him as sort of a New Beginning.

All of these Companies are willing to work with Nintendo, and now you even Got Disney on board. You got franchises like Sonic, Final Fantasy, Minecraft, Kingdom Hearts, Street Fighter. Like I mentioned before, the More Companies and Franchises are included, the more that Other companies are gonna want a piece of the Pie, and perhaps are willing to Give Nintendo a good deal to use their characters to be apart of this Crossover

Getting Someone like Sora in Brawl would have been Impossible since Smash hadn't been established as a Whole Gaming Crossover at that point, only Mostly Nintendo, despite the Presence of Snake and Sonic. Now with Sora in Ultimate I think very few characters are Impossible to work around (I think Rockstar/Take Two is the one Company that won't want to be in Smash, and Sony is a bit iffy, but could see it).

I think the "Impossible" Thing is figuring out how to contain all these Crossovers and 3rd party franchises with all the Licensing and such, but I think Smash Ultimate itself, as hard as it was to get everybody back, especially the 3rd parties, is the reason Smash is gonna have an easier time keeping more 3rd parties as time goes on

Final analysis of Smash Ultimate newcomers, not including echoes or returning veterans:

• First Party: Inklings, Ridley, King K Rool, Isabelle, Incineroar, Piranha Plant, Byleth, Min Min, Pyra/Mythra (9).
• Third Party: Simon, Joker, Hero, Banjo-Kazooie, Terry, Steve, Sephiroth, Kazuya, Sora (9)

• Old characters: Ridley, Simon, King K Rool, Piranha Plant, Banjo-Kazooie, Terry, Sephiroth, Kazuya, Sora (9)
• Modern characters (10’s decade foward): Inkling, Isabelle, Incineroar, Joker, Hero*, Byleth, Min Min, Steve, Pyra/Mythra (9).

* Hero crossover ls Smash X DQXI, so technically he is a modern character, though his alts are from previous games.

• Male fighters: Ridley, King K Rool, Simon, Incineroar, Joker, Hero, Terry, Sephiroth, Kazuya, Sora (10)
• Female fighters: Isabelle, Min Min, Pyra/Mythra (3)
• Both genre: Inklings, Byleth, Steve/Alex, Banjo-Kazooie. (4)
• No genre: Piranha Plant (1).

An update in best selling japanese IPs, bold those who have playable characters and with * those who has some other content in smash (AT, music, spirits, stage, etc):

1) Final Fantasy
2) Sonic the Hedgehog
3) Resident Evil *
4) Dragon Quest
5) Monster Hunter *
6) Metal Gear
7) Tekken
8) Street Fighter
9) Pac-Man
10) Mega Man
11) Kingdom Hearts
12) Souls
13) Power Pros
14) Devil May Cry *
15) Castlevania
16) Frogger
17) Simple
18) Tales *
19) Megami Tensei (includes Persona)
20) Professor Layton

I wonder what Power Pros and Simple are? Power Pros sounds like a Golf game

I also stand by the Notion that Nintendo and/or Sakurai tried to get both Resident Evil and Monster Hunter as Fighters, but failed. Personally I think Monster Hunter is gonna stay without a Fighter, but I think Resident Evil might be Attempted again for a Fighter

 

[Dinoman96]

For those of you still on the boards, who would you say is your favourite third party character?

//////Poor Terry on his own...

If you count Bayonetta as a SEGA rep, then you're gonna have count Sora seperately from the FF7 duo and Hero, I'm afraid.

Anyways, Banjo & Kazooie.

 

[Sucumbio]

For those of you still on the boards, who would you say is your favourite third party character?

//////Poor Terry on his own...

Several I can't really rank them...

Snake because mgs was a huge part of my gaming history. Brawl version da bess tho.

Mega Man I don't use him but I love he made it in it'd be hard to not see him as a necessary character in gaming.

Richter and Simon.... Yeeeeah but I prefer Alucard.

Cloud and Sephiroth are GREAT to use in the game but I don't actually like the origin game FF7 nor have I played the remake. I'd have preferred Mog tbh.

Hero was a sweet inclusion though I don't use him. He's a lackluster sword and his spell gimmick is difficult for me to use.

Kazuya.... Prolly my favorite 3rd party to date in terms of getting a character from a favorite series. Tekken was a huge part of my gaming life and although I mained Heihachi seeing anyone from Tekken really made Ultimate special for me.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

For those of you still on the boards, who would you say is your favourite third party character?

//////Poor Terry on his own...

I have to say Terry, he's easily the best character for me as I have no complaints whatsoever beyond the tiny nitpick that I wanted Dies Irae in the game but like. 50 songs, the most fun stage gimmick and a character who's got such a good feeling with fantastic flow between moves.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I still think it's Weird that Sora is actually in the game, and I mean weird in a good way, It's kind of Surreal

Also I've more come around to his Moveset mostly being based of KH1. I think the one thing I would say Is I think they should have just made the Down B a Block that could stagger, without the Counter Attack. I think it would have actually made it more Unique that way

I Like that Sora is in the game. There were some disappointing aspects like only so few tracks and no Disney, but that's to be expected to be honest. I want to get my Hands on Sora and try him out

I also think Sora also leaves a good Precedent for Smash 6. I know people see him as the End for right now, but I'm starting to see him as sort of a New Beginning.

All of these Companies are willing to work with Nintendo, and now you even Got Disney on board. You got franchises like Sonic, Final Fantasy, Minecraft, Kingdom Hearts, Street Fighter. Like I mentioned before, the More Companies and Franchises are included, the more that Other companies are gonna want a piece of the Pie, and perhaps are willing to Give Nintendo a good deal to use their characters to be apart of this Crossover

Getting Someone like Sora in Brawl would have been Impossible since Smash hadn't been established as a Whole Gaming Crossover at that point, only Mostly Nintendo, despite the Presence of Snake and Sonic. Now with Sora in Ultimate I think very few characters are Impossible to work around (I think Rockstar/Take Two is the one Company that won't want to be in Smash, and Sony is a bit iffy, but could see it).

I think the "Impossible" Thing is figuring out how to contain all these Crossovers and 3rd party franchises with all the Licensing and such, but I think Smash Ultimate itself, as hard as it was to get everybody back, especially the 3rd parties, is the reason Smash is gonna have an easier time keeping more 3rd parties as time goes on



I wonder what Power Pros and Simple are? Power Pros sounds like a Golf game

I also stand by the Notion that Nintendo and/or Sakurai tried to get both Resident Evil and Monster Hunter as Fighters, but failed. Personally I think Monster Hunter is gonna stay without a Fighter, but I think Resident Evil might be Attempted again for a Fighter

Do you think they attempted to get an ArcSys character but also failed, hence the River City spirit event?

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

For those of you still on the boards, who would you say is your favourite third party character?

//////Poor Terry on his own...

Banjo by miles. You could cut the rest from the roster and I wouldn’t miss a beat

 

[drag0nscythe]

For those of you still on the boards, who would you say is your favourite third party character?

//////Poor Terry on his own...

going with and and

 

[Michael the Spikester]

For those of you still on the boards, who would you say is your favourite third party character?

//////Poor Terry on his own...

Banjo followed by Sephiroth.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

For those of you still on the boards, who would you say is your favourite third party character?

//////Poor Terry on his own...

**** it, ALL OF THEM!

also, here’s hoping Kyo joins Terry next game…

 

[Spazzy_D]

see y'all in 4 years or so!

 

[Momotsuki]

For those of you still on the boards, who would you say is your favourite third party character?

//////Poor Terry on his own...

Since icons are broken at the moment...
I would say Kazuya.
Terry and Steve are runner-ups!

 

[Louie G.]

We have Little Mac

It's pretty interesting to see Mac cited as a POC - I always figured Little Mac was Italian given the obvious inspiration from Rocky Balboa, but can see the angle of Little Mac being hispanic too. Either way, I think Punch-Out does a great job with representation and has featured prominent POC characters for over 30 years. Really cool aspect of the series that I don't see get enough credit!

Good writeup on the state of things though... it's always kinda difficult to discuss Smash representation in the more applicable, real sense of race / gender / sexuality and so forth. The way I've always explained it is that Smash represents the gaming industry as a whole. It's not so much the responsibility of Smash Bros to bring in fighters on the basis of their racial identity but the responsibility of game developers to create more memorable lead characters that give representation to POC. And then when those games succeed those characters join the forefront of Smash speculation alongside other gaming icons, etc. We're definitely moving further in that direction bit by bit, so hopefully by the time we can discuss the new Smash Bros we have some more diverse options.

I do think Smash at least does a pretty nice job of gender balance though, all things considered.

 

[SNEKeater]

Do you think they attempted to get an ArcSys character but also failed, hence the River City spirit event?

I don't think so, ArcSys doesn't seem to have a problem with doing crossovers, Guilty Gear has been in Tales of Luminaria recently (the Tales mobile game) and multiple other crossovers, specially in mobile games.

If anything I think Nintendo was just not interested, or not enough over the ones we got, in getting a playable ArcSys character.

 

[Ivander]

Haha the straw that broke was when black knight was announced and I couldn't get him then finally after 10 orbs he was mine. After that I realized that it'd never end... I'd always want someone else and just wasn't gonna pay anymore. Speaking of which tho Alm was ferocious! He basically was the go to character for every mission, story mode, challenge...

.....Are we talking like, Radiant games Black Knight? Like just Black Knight? Not his true identity Zelgius, but Black Knight? I could understand if it's Zelgius, but Black Knight is free. Well, grails are needed for past TT/GHB Units today, but Black Knight was a free TT unit, with no need for Orbs.

 

[Theguy123]

Whilst I didn’t call sora, I’m glad I called us ending on the pass with the actual ballot winner.

I remember saying that we never had the banjo of this pass so I wondered if we’d get the True winner of the ballot or the highest ballot character that was left.

i’m glad I was pretty much right

 

[drag0nscythe]

It's pretty interesting to see Mac cited as a POC - I always figured Little Mac was Italian given the obvious inspiration from Rocky Balboa, but can see the angle of Little Mac being hispanic too. Either way, I think Punch-Out does a great job with representation and has featured prominent POC characters for over 30 years. Really cool aspect of the series that I don't see get enough credit!

Good writeup on the state of things though... it's always kinda difficult to discuss Smash representation in the more applicable, real sense of race / gender / sexuality and so forth. The way I've always explained it is that Smash represents the gaming industry as a whole. It's not so much the responsibility of Smash Bros to bring in fighters on the basis of their racial identity but the responsibility of game developers to create more memorable lead characters that give representation to POC. And then when those games succeed those characters join the forefront of Smash speculation alongside other gaming icons, etc. We're definitely moving further in that direction bit by bit, so hopefully by the time we can discuss the new Smash Bros we have some more diverse options.

I do think Smash at least does a pretty nice job of gender balance though, all things considered.

Like Katt or Emitt Graves from Sony.
or Alyz from Valve.
or Garcian.
or Doc Louis (we have lil mac. he would make a great second rep)

but looking at lists online. most are not main characters. that needs to shift for more to be included in smash.

 

[7NATOR]

Do you think they attempted to get an ArcSys character but also failed, hence the River City spirit event?

No

I'm gonna go a bit Conspiracy Theorist, But I don't think they ever tried to get an ArcSys character for this game...What I'm thinking is they negotiating for Next Game though

It does seem like FP1 and FP2 already were Decided around the same time. Sora being the True Ballot winner I think showcases that at least on the 3rd party side, the Negotiations were probably tried out much Earlier than perhaps when FP1 was Greenlit, and when FP2 was Greenlit

So I think for any Franchise or Company that didn't get a Fighter, we could look at what they did get, and perhaps think about what they actually negotiated for

With ArcSys, they Negotiated for River City Spirits and that's it. Their Flagship Series, Guilty Gear and Blazblue are nowhere to be seen, and I think that actually means Good news for those Franchises perhaps getting something Next game, like a Playable character

If you think about it, if Nintendo and/or Sakurai were/are planning for the Next Smash, and are negotiating with other Companies to get a head start on the Planning (so it can get developed faster without Complications), as the Smash Ultimate DLC is still in development, Than I think Certain Franchises or characters lacking either any Presence or perhaps just Spirits might indicate they are saving their Presence for where they Matter more, in the next game. This is especially true if they are trying for a Character and not just a Mii Costume, as I think Nintendo would just rather do one Negotiation rather than Multiple at a time

The 4 Franchises I find suspicious with this is Guilty Gear/BlazBlue, Ninja Gaiden, Rayman, and Actually Shovel Knight. They Come from Companies represented in the Smash Ultimate game without Playable charcaters. The Former two have no Presence at all, despite those franchises being the Flagship of their Companies, and

Rayman only as a Spirit that was probably negotiated in 2015, with no Further Mii Costume despite Ubisoft getting Altair and Rabbids, and Minecraft showing a Rayman Costume could work. Shovel Knight was likely negotiated early for Assist, and would have worked perfectly as a Mii Costume, but it never came to be

I think Especially if Smash 6 is gonna be about the Video Game Crossover, to Lengths no other Smash game as priotized before, I think this shows a sign of things to come

Other Franchises from Companies that do have Fighters I find Suspicious of is Puyo Puyo, Ace Attorney, and Halo. The Former 2 franchises are ones that have been heavily requested to be in the game, and are heavily Associated with Nintendo, and Halo is Halo, yet there is nothing in the game containing them. There could also be saved in Negotations for something bigger going into Smash 6

The thing is that if this is actually the Direction that Nintendo and/or Sakurai are going, and I'm actually right that they are planning Smash 6 and talking with Companies, this actually would mean bad news for things that got more Substantial content later on in Ultimate's Life cylce, like Mii Costumes. It doesn't spread good news of things like Devil May Cry, Shantae, DOOM, Skyrim. I'm unsure though but it's something to keep note of

 

[drag0nscythe]

No

I'm gonna go a bit Conspiracy Theorist, But I don't think they ever tried to get an ArcSys character for this game...What I'm thinking is they negotiating for Next Game though

It does seem like FP1 and FP2 already were Decided around the same time. Sora being the True Ballot winner I think showcases that at least on the 3rd party side, the Negotiations were probably tried out much Earlier than perhaps when FP1 was Greenlit, and when FP2 was Greenlit

So I think for any Franchise or Company that didn't get a Fighter, we could look at what they did get, and perhaps think about what they actually negotiated for

With ArcSys, they Negotiated for River City Spirits and that's it. Their Flagship Series, Guilty Gear and Blazblue are nowhere to be seen, and I think that actually means Good news for those Franchises perhaps getting something Next game, like a Playable character

If you think about it, if Nintendo and/or Sakurai were/are planning for the Next Smash, and are negotiating with other Companies to get a head start on the Planning (so it can get developed faster without Complications), as the Smash Ultimate DLC is still in development, Than I think Certain Franchises or characters lacking either any Presence or perhaps just Spirits might indicate they are saving their Presence for where they Matter more, in the next game. This is especially true if they are trying for a Character and not just a Mii Costume, as I think Nintendo would just rather do one Negotiation rather than Multiple at a time

The 4 Franchises I find suspicious with this is Guilty Gear/BlazBlue, Ninja Gaiden, Rayman, and Actually Shovel Knight. They Come from Companies represented in the Smash Ultimate game without Playable charcaters. The Former two have no Presence at all, despite those franchises being the Flagship of their Companies, and

Rayman only as a Spirit that was probably negotiated in 2015, with no Further Mii Costume despite Ubisoft getting Altair and Rabbids, and Minecraft showing a Rayman Costume could work. Shovel Knight was likely negotiated early for Assist, and would have worked perfectly as a Mii Costume, but it never came to be

I think Especially if Smash 6 is gonna be about the Video Game Crossover, to Lengths no other Smash game as priotized before, I think this shows a sign of things to come

Other Franchises from Companies that do have Fighters I find Suspicious of is Puyo Puyo, Ace Attorney, and Halo. The Former 2 franchises are ones that have been heavily requested to be in the game, and are heavily Associated with Nintendo, and Halo is Halo, yet there is nothing in the game containing them. There could also be saved in Negotations for something bigger going into Smash 6

The thing is that if this is actually the Direction that Nintendo and/or Sakurai are going, and I'm actually right that they are planning Smash 6 and talking with Companies, this actually would mean bad news for things that got more Substantial content later on in Ultimate's Life cylce, like Mii Costumes. It doesn't spread good news of things like Devil May Cry, Shantae, DOOM, Skyrim. I'm unsure though but it's something to keep note of

i tend to think mii costumes are runners up. could not be fighters given time/resources/budget, etc. but would have been otherwise. Like AT. AT might be even closer to fighteres then the mii costumes were.
but maybe next time. or mods. I really hope smash modders go to town on this. like brawl.

 

[kylexv]

It's crazy that we went from Smash 4 Base, which had 3 third party characters, to finishing with 18 third party characters in total, with 45% of Ultimate's newcomers being third party.

Brawl:
Smash 4:
Ultimate:

It's insane.

 

[Louie G.]

For those of you still on the boards, who would you say is your favourite third party character?

Well I definitely like some for different reasons. Copout answer but I'll just use the opportunity to praise them individually.

I think Mega Man and Pac-Man was such a satisfying double whammy for Smash 4. Both had so much love and creativity poured into them and immediately felt like permanent parts of the Smash family. The impact has definitely cooled since their initial reveal but I think out of everyone we've got I'd be especially sad to let go of these two.

Terry is the best third party in Ultimate, it's really cool to have a third party character well outside the bounds of what people wanted or expected yknow? Like, I think Terry is the closest we've got to a third party equivalent of something like Captain Falcon or Ness. Introducing Smash fans to something new and fun is kind of what the series does best in my eyes. And yeah he's just really cool.

I want to commend Steve also for really pushing the boundaries of what's possible with Smash character design. I'd say most of the DLC expands on things we've already established through other characters and just does them better or adds some twist. Steve is just wholly original and I'm constantly impressed with all the crazy bull**** I see people pull off with him on Twitter. I'm happy we got something like that even if it's not a character I play very much of or even have much interest in directly, from a sheer gameplay perspective he's perhaps the most exciting.

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

45%? Geez that’s too many

 

[BlondeLombax]

BTDubs, probably 'd, but

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's crazy that we went from Smash 4 Base, which had 3 third party characters, to finishing with 18 third party characters in total, with 45% of Ultimate's newcomers being third party.

Brawl:
Smash 4:
Ultimate:

It's insane.

I'd say it's for the best. Try replacing all of them with Nintendo characters and you'll have multiple bottom of the barrel picks tbh. Plus, I strongly dislike the whole Nintendo Purist angle as if third party companies haven't made absolute gems available on Nintendo systems for decades

 

[Sucumbio]

.....Are we talking like, Radiant games Black Knight? Like just Black Knight? Not his true identity Zelgius, but Black Knight? I could understand if it's Zelgius, but Black Knight is free. Well, grails are needed for past TT/GHB Units today, but Black Knight was a free TT unit, with no need for Orbs.

Zelgius haha

 

[KillerCage]

For those of you still on the boards, who would you say is your favourite third party character?

//////Poor Terry on his own...

Snake, the Belmonts, Banjo, and Terry

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

I'd say it's for the best. Try replacing all of them with Nintendo characters and you'll have multiple bottom of the barrel picks tbh. Plus, I strongly dislike the whole Nintendo Purist angle as if third party companies haven't made absolute gems available on Nintendo systems for decades

Someone’s “bottom of the barrel” is someone else’s “cream of the crop” - just something to keep in mind. I’m sure there are some people who would trade a few 3rd party characters for, say, Isaac or Dixie or Andy or Geno and so on and so forth.

(And yes, I am a Nintendo purist )

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Someone’s “bottom of the barrel” is someone else’s “cream of the crop” - just something to keep in mind. I’m sure there are some people who would trade a few 3rd party characters for, say, Isaac or Dixie or Andy or Geno and so on and so forth.

(And yes, I am a Nintendo purist )

Yeah but looking at our trend of newcomers 3rd parties generate the most attention. Also Geno is 3rd party.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

I wonder what Power Pros and Simple are? Power Pros sounds like a Golf game

I also stand by the Notion that Nintendo and/or Sakurai tried to get both Resident Evil and Monster Hunter as Fighters, but failed. Personally I think Monster Hunter is gonna stay without a Fighter, but I think Resident Evil might be Attempted again for a Fighter

Power Pros is a baseball series published by Konami. It uses super-deformed characters. Its quite famous in japan, although here not so much.

Power Pros - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Simple were a series of very basic games developed by D3 Software (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_(video_game_series). Don’t think they have a character.

I agree that Resident Evil should be in Nintendo’s aim, the IP is growing a lot (is getting a new game every year and on all plattforms possible) and they can pull an interesting character, adding something like a survival sub-menu gimmick. Various RE characters are playable in Marvel vs Capcom games, so moveset wise shouldn’t be too much problem.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I'm someone that hasn't bought every Mii costume, so missing one song isn't a big deal for me, especially since I have no attachment to Kingdom Hearts.

I'll just be happy with having every character/stage, every classic route completed on 9.0 difficulty or above, 100% completion on WoL's hard mode, and every spirit.

Wait, is there a bonus song if you get every Mii Costume?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Someone’s “bottom of the barrel” is someone else’s “cream of the crop” - just something to keep in mind. I’m sure there are some people who would trade a few 3rd party characters for, say, Isaac or Dixie or Andy or Geno and so on and so forth.

(And yes, I am a Nintendo purist )

Idk man, I don't see anyone on the planet popping off over **** like, Komurasaki or Donbe and Hikari over Cloud ****ing Strife or even smaller characters like Terry. I wouldn't even call your examples bottom of the barrel even if you're saying a third party would be good as they're not third party somehow.

 

[N3ON]

I do think not wanting a character being synonymous with ignoring the quality of the games they might come from is misrepresenting the argument though.

 

[SKX31]

For those of you still on the boards, who would you say is your favourite third party character?

//////Poor Terry on his own...

.

There's a lot of reasons I've mained him since Day 1:

• Very easy to pick up and straightforward to play, and while a lot of his stuff is basic it's also consistent.
• Limit charging does give him some ability to answer more defensive playstyles: "Oh you're throwing projectiles at me? Lemme retreat a bit and get some Limit real quick."
• His offense is really good (except vs. shields) and he can rack up damage quickly. Fits my playstyle preferences like a glove.
• There's some flashy stuff one can do with him - one of my favorites is shooting a Limit Blade Beam off stage towards an recovering opponent while sliding off stage oneself. If one manages to hit a Limit Cross Slash off stage it's an amazing feeling too - especially since its power means it'll cause an untechable stage spike surprisingly early.
• Also I just really like Cloud as a character.

Wait, is there a bonus song if you get every Mii Costume?

I don't think so, no.

He's - I assume - referring to the 10th KH song (Dearly Beloved Swing Version) being available only if you have Melody of Memories save data.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, Paper Mario, Captain Toad, Krystal, Isaac, Skull Kid, Waluigi, Ashley….and oops I already mentioned Ashley who’s like….yeah third party’s a pretty good choice to make overall. Still stings for those feeling left behind in discourse though. Didn’t count any Splatoon characters because they’re very recent additions to the discussion and I feel “new first party characters” do get that share of the speculation pie but I felt the Rie like breathing down my neck. Ring Fit Trainer and Astral Chain Person also falls under this

 

[N3ON]

Personally I still want as many first-parties as I do third-parties. Or close to. It's just that basically all the first-parties I wanted got AT'd.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

For those of you still on the boards, who would you say is your favourite third party character?

//////Poor Terry on his own...

for me.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Good thing for 1st Parties is that Base rosters tend to favor them over 3rds. Given how much the Ballot has been used thus far I’m almost positive characters like Isaac (hey I learned how to spell it), Dixie, Ashley, Waluigi, etc. are in serious consideration by the team for next game. Whenever that happens anyhow.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yeah but looking at our trend of newcomers 3rd parties generate the most attention.

Yes, but I feel like Nintendo abuses that concept. Look at other fighters with guests-they understand the concept of third parties generating attention, but don't think it means they should take up the majority of DLC.

Yes this may be some sort of "grr muh eyesack grr" post.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

As I've said before, I don't really hold the lack of characters like BWD or Dixie Kong against Smash Ultimate given its overall focus and big scope. It's more that they would have made perfect sense as inclusions in base game Smash 4, and after that, they simply weren't high priority in comparison to really big fan requests like K Rool/Ridley, inclusions from newer Nintendo games, and third party characters.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Yes, but I feel like Nintendo abuses that concept. Look at other fighters with guests-they understand the concept of third parties generating attention, but don't think it means they should take up the majority of DLC.

Yes this may be some sort of "grr muh eyesack grr" post.

I definitely see where your coming from. But Smashs nature as a crossover makes me not consider as big a problem as with other fighters.

For example, when MK11 prioritized Guest characters over returning veterans, I was annoyed because I think Mortal Kombat games should give Mortal Kombat characters first stake since they don’t really appear in anything else.

But since basically everyone in Smash is a guest to a certain extent I don’t have as big an issue with 3rd Parties getting priority as DLC.

That said, I would definitely be fine with a bigger emphasis on 1st Parties if thats what the team wants to do next time.