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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

Eldrake

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Messages
864
Part of me wonders how they'd implement the Quas Wex Exort system into Smash though. Invoker's already (in)famous for being very complex to control in Dota, and honestly I doubt that Sakurai would let the "One elemental per keyboard key, 3 elementals needed for a spell" system fly without adjusting the system a bit.

One way to do it - outside of integrating his 10 spells into his normals somehow (how though... given that he's practically AoE everywhere) - might be to split the spells up for (relative) simplicity's sake (and for everyone else's sanity), perhaps choosing like mini-Monado wheels:

  • The Disarm-wave Deafening Blast might be best suited as the Neutral B. (Since it's the QWE spell)
  • Quas (Ice) spells could be Down B - between the Mini-Stun inducing Cold Snap, the Invisibility spell (with a slow to nearby opponents of course) Ghost Walk, and his AoE Slow spell Ice Wall.
  • Wex (Storm and electricity) could be Up B - shifting between the AoE damaging EMP, the similarily AoE / perhaps recovery option Tornado, and the self / team mate attack speed buff Alacrity.
  • And Exort (Fire) could be Side B - what with the Chaos Meteor (seemingly self explanatory), Sun Strike (also self explanatory) and the familiar-summoning Forge Spirits.

It'd be extremely difficult to implement him regardless, but that might be one way that would be less headache inducing. Partly because he'd have access to four spells at all times, but would still need to choose for the situation.
That seems like a good way to implement a character like Invoker. And I agree that Tornado would definitely be his recovery. For his normals, I imagined a mix of Marvel vs Capcom Dr. Strange and variants of his auto attack animation (Ranged Smash attacks perhaps). A major part of Invoker's playstyle involves chaining his spells into a catastrophic combo, but I figure it'd be his Final Smash.

I think we can also agree that Super Saiyan Magus Apex would be his alternate costume. Because how could it not be.

Super Saiyan Invoker.png
 

Rie Sonomura

octo babs for smash pls and thank u sakurai
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So what’s going on with Crash and some cartoon? Anyone wanna give a tl dr?
 

Lyncario

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Messages
641
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Hell
So what’s going on with Crash and some cartoon? Anyone wanna give a tl dr?
Some guy on Reddit claims that Activision and Amazon had a fall off while doing a Crash cartoon, and that the entire industry of animation hates Activision now. People did not believe him so he linked to a 20 second extract of what was suposedly the pilot episode, though it's also dated april 1st, so even if the animation is convincing, the possibility of it being an elaborate troll is there, even if it's likely that he's not a troll in my opinion. This cause people to think that Activision are so bad to work with that Nintendo did not get the rights for Crash in Smash.
 

Lionfranky

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
573
I heard that recent Crash games didn't do well in Japan.... based on that, wouldn't Nintendo pass away despite past popularity there? If not then, Japan shouldn't be roadblock for Master Chief. At least, during 360, Halo was decenly popular. "Hur hur Banjo was pretty popular there!"
400k (Banjo) vs 110k (Halo 3). It's debatable that MCC Steam could've boosted popularity in Japan, but it's hard to guess. Anyway, I don't think that's the world of difference. I seriously doubt Nintendo took Japanese fanbase into account that much when they were trying to get Banjo.
So, Nintendo got Banjo which sold 400k at peak to appease install base of 3.8 million in Japan? I'm not sure the math adds up.
All in all... I can say Japan argument is overrated.
 

BritishGuy54

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 14, 2020
Messages
61
Nintendo and Sega never really cracked the UK like the Playstation did so to a certain generation he's probably like their Mario or Sonic.

British people feel free to correct me as I continue to speak for you.
Nah. Crash does do well, but the general consensus is that we are very split. Nintendo seems to do well here, with the main conflict being between Sony and Microsoft (just like the USA). This is speaking as a Gen Z Brit. I never heard of Crash until around 2016 (and I knew who Spyro was because Skylanders). I don’t know what older people feel about Crash, but it seemed later on Mario and Sonic filled the void that Crash may have left.
 

YoshiandToad

Smash Hero
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Dec 24, 2001
Messages
6,177
Location
Still up Peach's dress.
So what’s going on with Crash and some cartoon? Anyone wanna give a tl dr?
Apparently there was a Crash Bandicoot cartoon being made for Amazon.

The person on Reddit claims they were a writer on it. They did post an animation bible for the series as well as a short animated snippet to prove it.
Arguments between Activision and Amazon over the tone of an episode in which Dr. Neo Cortez accidentally gets turned into a baby by his 'eternal life' ray gun and Nina and Coco have to babysit him until they can restore him caused a falling out.

Amazon wanted it to appeal more to kids, Activision apparently wanted it to be aimed more at gamers but also suggested a scene where they just throw Mario in during a racing segment. Not a parody of Mario mind you or a knock off Mario, actual Mario, and the writers had to ask how they were going to get the rights to use Mario. They didn't know, but demanded he be included as a reoccurring character?

Apparently Activision were difficult to work for with both Amazon and the writers/animators of the show, and out of revenge the Redditor leaked some of their hard work out of frustration.

Only thing is, usually this sort of thing would come with a NDA for at least a set few years, whilst the cancellation of the project claims to be quite new. The post has been taken down now, meaning either it was removed due to it being a prank or removed due to legal action from Activision.

As a result people think Crash Bandicoot isn't coming because Nintendo wouldn't want to work with a company that was happy to infringe on their copyright.


Nintendo and Sega never really cracked the UK like the Playstation did so to a certain generation he's probably like their Mario or Sonic.

British people feel free to correct me as I continue to speak for you.
Edit: Making this more legible:

Crash's face was definitely everywhere in the mid 90s, but Mario and Sonic's faces were on a lot of merch too. I'd say all three cracked the UK, but Playstation was definitely the dominant console.

Even then I wouldn't say Crash was more recognisable than either Mario or Sonic here, but Crash was considered to legitimately on their level. Seems a bit silly these days. Mario and Sonic still have tons of merchandise in our shops.

Source: I am old enough to remember the 90s and live in the UK.
 
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Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
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Messages
57,698
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Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
Apparently there was a Crash Bandicoot cartoon being made for Amazon.

The person on Reddit claims they were a writer on it. They did post an animation bible for the series as well as a short animated snippet to prove it.
Arguments between Activision and Amazon over the tone of an episode in which Dr. Neo Cortez accidentally gets turned into a baby by his 'eternal life' ray gun and Nina and Coco have to babysit him until they can restore him caused a falling out.

Amazon wanted it to appeal more to kids, Activision apparently wanted it to be aimed more at gamers but also suggested a scene where they just throw Mario in during a racing segment. Not a parody of Mario mind you or a knock off Mario, actual Mario, and the writers had to ask how they were going to get the rights to use Mario. They didn't know, but demanded he be included as a reoccurring character?

Apparently Activision were difficult to work for with both Amazon and the writers/animators of the show, and out of revenge the Redditor leaked some of their hard work out of frustration.

Only thing is, usually this sort of thing would come with a NDA for at least a set few years, whilst the cancellation of the project claims to be quite new. The post has been taken down now, meaning either it was removed due to it being a prank or removed due to legal action from Activision.

As a result people think Crash Bandicoot isn't coming because Nintendo wouldn't want to work with a company that was happy to infringe on their copyright.




Edit: Making this more legible:

Crash's face was definitely everywhere in the mid 90s, but Mario and Sonic's faces were on a lot of merch too. I'd say all three cracked the UK, but Playstation was definitely the dominant console.

Even then I wouldn't say Crash was more recognisable than either Mario or Sonic here, but Crash was considered to legitimately on their level. Seems a bit silly these days. Mario and Sonic still have tons of merchandise in our shops.

Source: I am old enough to remember the 90s and live in the UK.
I'm sorry, but how the **** would they demand Mario? I'm pretty sure they'd have to have secured rights beforehand to do that, but this implies that they had yet to do so, which sounds like complete bull****
 

TwiceEXE

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 29, 2019
Messages
610
I'm sorry, but how the ** would they demand Mario? I'm pretty sure they'd have to have secured rights beforehand to do that, but this implies that they had yet to do so, which sounds like complete bull**
It sounds like a caricature of an over-demanding executive you would see in a film.
 
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RoboFist

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
220
Nintendo and Sega never really cracked the UK like the Playstation did so to a certain generation he's probably like their Mario or Sonic.

British people feel free to correct me as I continue to speak for you.
I don't want to stir up too big a generational argument here, but...I thought we already had PS1's biggest icon and the N64's biggest threat on the Smash roster?

As someone who grew up in the 90s and saw the whole Nintendo vs Sega vs Playstation debate play out on the playground and bus rides after school, the general consensus was that Crash was cool, but he was never the Sonic-level threat to Nintendo that the commercials made him out to be. I think a lot of people (especially kids) bought into that only because the TV told us to haha.

Even as a preteen, I remember the friends of mine who owned a PS1 much preferred showing off Spyro and Tomb Raider and Resident Evil over Crash. And I'm being 100% honest here, it sincerely wasn't until FF7 that they started telling me Sony was better than Nintendo. Even I remember looking at what FF7 was doing and getting infuriatingly jealous because - even though I was a pretty dumb kid and really didn't know exactly what was going on in the story - I knew that the overall scope and presentation of the game was something the N64 couldn't do.

It may not have had the universal appeal of a Crash or a Spyro, but FF7 is what cemented Sony as an absolute powerhouse in the gaming business. While having Crash in would be fun from a nostalgic perspective, I think having both Cloud and Sephiroth in Ultimate is a much bigger deal.
 

LiveStudioAudience

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
1,856
My understanding is that in the 16 bit era Sega basically ran the table in a lot of Europe (especially Britain) with Sony then doing so in the 32 bit time period when the Saturn was struggling everywhere except Japan. Places like the UK had a lot of their early game focus with home computers (hence why they avoided the 1983 VG Crash), and never quite embraced Nintendo like North America did.

As far as Cloud being the PSX icon over Crash... well yes and no. The thing is the latter simply makes more sense as a comparative rival to Mario because of the shared genre. Platformers were still major and while the likes of Tomb Raider and FFVII showed the first cracks in its presence over the industry, it wouldn't really be until the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox era that its big hold was completely broken. Cloud and company were publicly significant mind you, its just that Crash also came first and also was a new IP that got big quickly, as opposed to VII which was still a continuation of a pre-existing franchise (albeit a breakaway one that changed the franchise's path forever). I mean there was a reason this was the type of magazine cover that was popular at the time:



In hindsight and with long term sales FFVII has obviously won out, but Crash's association as the the rival to Mario has endured in spite of the more complicated market situation it actually was. Its similar to how Mario vs. Sonic is seen as the major battle in the first half of the 90s, despite the fact that former was effectively replaced by the Kongs with major games for a while and that DKC and its sequels were the games acting as more direct sales competitors to Sonic.
 
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Michael the Spikester

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Aug 31, 2018
Messages
20,569
Location
Canada
Switch FC
SW-0818-8347-0203

Random but cute picture featuring a lot of Capcom characters

Missing Amaterasu and Asura.
 

ShrimpScampi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 11, 2020
Messages
215
Not really related to the current discussion, but earlier today, Arc System posted a trailer for a new BlazBlue... mobile gacha RPG.


When I saw “BlazBlue RPG Reboot”, I was excited about BB getting a new start after CF (as well as letting Ragna share the spotlight with Sol, since right now GG Strive is Arc System’s main focus), but alas, it’s just a mobile gacha game.
 

TCT~Phantom

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Messages
2,892
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TCT~Phantom
My understanding is that in the 16 bit era Sega basically ran the table in a lot of Europe (especially Britain) with Sony then doing so in the 32 bit time period when the Saturn was struggling everywhere except Japan. Places like the UK had a lot of their early game focus with home computers (hence why they avoided the 1983 VG Crash), and never quite embraced Nintendo like North America did.

As far as Cloud being the PSX icon over Crash... well yes and no. The thing is the latter simply makes more sense as a comparative rival to Mario because of the shared genre. Platformers were still major and while the likes of Tomb Raider and FFVII showed the first cracks in its presence over the industry, it wouldn't really be until the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox era that its big hold was completely broken. Cloud and company were publicly significant mind you, its just that Crash also came first and also was a new IP that got big quickly, as opposed to VII which was still a continuation of a pre-existing franchise (albeit a breakaway one that changed the franchise's path forever). I mean there was a reason this was the type of magazine cover that was popular at the time:



In hindsight and with long term sales FFVII has obviously won out, but Crash's association as the the rival to Mario has endured in spite of the more complicated market situation it actually was. Its similar to how Mario vs. Sonic is seen as the major battle in the first half of the 90s, despite the fact that former was effectively replaced by the Kongs with major games for a while and that DKC and its sequels were the games acting as more direct sales competitors to Sonic.
Sales wise if ya count each crash game together it outsold FF as a whole on the PS1 I believe, which also helps. It also helps that Crash had a new game each year since 96. It meant Crash was always doing something in your face.

Also that level of executive meddling is absolutely cartoonish. As insane as Activision is, they understand how IP rights work. I expect this artist was frustrated and spoke in massive hyperbole over being let go of a cancelled show.
 

Blackmage Kuja

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
1,652
I don't want to stir up too big a generational argument here, but...I thought we already had PS1's biggest icon and the N64's biggest threat on the Smash roster?

As someone who grew up in the 90s and saw the whole Nintendo vs Sega vs Playstation debate play out on the playground and bus rides after school, the general consensus was that Crash was cool, but he was never the Sonic-level threat to Nintendo that the commercials made him out to be. I think a lot of people (especially kids) bought into that only because the TV told us to haha.

Even as a preteen, I remember the friends of mine who owned a PS1 much preferred showing off Spyro and Tomb Raider and Resident Evil over Crash. And I'm being 100% honest here, it sincerely wasn't until FF7 that they started telling me Sony was better than Nintendo. Even I remember looking at what FF7 was doing and getting infuriatingly jealous because - even though I was a pretty dumb kid and really didn't know exactly what was going on in the story - I knew that the overall scope and presentation of the game was something the N64 couldn't do.

It may not have had the universal appeal of a Crash or a Spyro, but FF7 is what cemented Sony as an absolute powerhouse in the gaming business. While having Crash in would be fun from a nostalgic perspective, I think having both Cloud and Sephiroth in Ultimate is a much bigger deal.
FF7 also helped bring RPGs more into the spotlight. They started to become more mainstream and appeared more and more on Sony consoles. If you wanted to play an RPG, PlayStation was the system for it even into its PS2 days (and the PS2 had a helluva long lifespan). Fans of the FF series as a whole will argue over whether FF7 is truly the best or overrated, but they can't deny that it was that game in particular that helped propel the series, and genre, as a whole into the mainstream (kind of like how Persona 5 thrust that series into the gaming public eye).

That's why the game and its characters are held in such high regard (and also why fans of FF6 can be a bit cantankerous about it since it feels like FF7 is stealing a lot of its thunder).

overall though, I wouldn't really call Cloud an Icon of PS1; more of RPGs in general. Crash was pushed as the Mascot of the PS1 for awhile and was really considered as such during the 90's. When the PS2 came around, the idea of having Crash as an Icon kinda died down as Sony was just inundated with mascot-worthy characters from well-received games like Sly Cooper, Jak & Daxter, and Ratchet & Clank. Plus, Crash never could really compete with either Sonic or Mario, especially as new games dried up, and they just decided to shift focus and make exclusive games their 'mascot' instead of a singular character (an image they've been striving to keep to even to this day).

Case in point, the video here shows even later commercials Crash is advertising games that aren't even his own on PlayStation. They were pushing HARD for him to be the 'Mario' of PlayStation. So he's definitely more of the mascot for Sony (at least from the 90's to 2000).
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Thinking about it more, the best description I'd use is that Crash was Sony's Mario while Cloud was their Link.

Both FFVII and eventually Ocarina of Time were the more serious and epic 3D experiences (in comparison to their platformer peers) that demonstrated deeper storytelling and ended up creating some of the most memorable cutscenes of their generation. Just as VII launched FF in the stratosphere for the Western market, OoT brought Zelda back from hibernation and effectively cemented it as one of the big three Nintendo franchises (alongside Mario and Pokemon) ever since. Final Fantasy would never been same after 1997 and LoZ would be definitively changed after 1998.
 
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Adrianette Bromide

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The new trailer for Mario 3D World on Switch dropped. Bowsers Fury looks pretty cool (new Bowser Final Smash when?)

IT'S TIME TO SPLIT!!! (sorry i had to)
Look if they can change Cloud's final smash, there's nothing about Giga Bowser that would need to change mechanically if they made it God-Slayer Bowser. Besides now it'd be something related to an actual Mario game.
 
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Commander_Alph

Smash Ace
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803
I heard that recent Crash games didn't do well in Japan.... based on that, wouldn't Nintendo pass away despite past popularity there? If not then, Japan shouldn't be roadblock for Master Chief. At least, during 360, Halo was decenly popular. "Hur hur Banjo was pretty popular there!"
400k (Banjo) vs 110k (Halo 3). It's debatable that MCC Steam could've boosted popularity in Japan, but it's hard to guess. Anyway, I don't think that's the world of difference. I seriously doubt Nintendo took Japanese fanbase into account that much when they were trying to get Banjo.
So, Nintendo got Banjo which sold 400k at peak to appease install base of 3.8 million in Japan? I'm not sure the math adds up.
All in all... I can say Japan argument is overrated.
It's kinda hard to justify that it's not really an important requirement for a game to be popular all over the world ("all over the world" in this case is America, Japan and Europe lol) it's kinda polarizing argument that ultimately always favor the bigger one. That argument is kinda already crumbling down because of DQ and KoF in Smash (one being popular in Japan and the other one popular South America) but that argument never going to stop being brought up to oppose everyone to take less risk and just point to the bigger picture.
 

LAA9000

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Guynamednelson

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IT'S TIME TO SPLIT!!! (sorry i had to)
DAMMIT Evil Trapezium Evil Trapezium WHAT HAVE YOU DONE

THE CORTEZPOSTING HAS ALREADY SPREAD TO NINTENDO ITSELF

YOU...YOU...TimeSplitters is a series of first-person shooter video games developed by Free Radical Design. The games are often compared to GoldenEye 007 and Perfect Dark, shooters developed by Rare, due to overlaps in gameplay, design, and development team. Each game features a time travelling element in which players battle across a diverse number of locations and periods in history.
 

chocolatejr9

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I don't know if it's been mentioned or not, but Kelios apparently stated that a Pokemon Direct is happening next month. Don't know what that means for Directs in general, but hey, Pokemon Directs at the start of the year are universal constants.
 

True Blue Warrior

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The new trailer for Mario 3D World on Switch dropped. Bowsers Fury looks pretty cool (new Bowser Final Smash when?)

IT'S TIME TO SPLIT!!! (sorry i had to)
“Fight fire and fury...with feline.... so furry”

Bowser’s Fire Fury vs Mario’s Feline Furry sure is an interesting anime arc.
 

Rie Sonomura

octo babs for smash pls and thank u sakurai
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DAMMIT Evil Trapezium Evil Trapezium WHAT HAVE YOU DONE

THE CORTEZPOSTING HAS ALREADY SPREAD TO NINTENDO ITSELF

YOU...YOU...TimeSplitters is a series of first-person shooter video games developed by Free Radical Design. The games are often compared to GoldenEye 007 and Perfect Dark, shooters developed by Rare, due to overlaps in gameplay, design, and development team. Each game features a time travelling element in which players battle across a diverse number of locations and periods in history.
EVERYONE
IS
CORTEZ!
 

RileyXY1

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
4,539
I don't know if it's been mentioned or not, but Kelios apparently stated that a Pokemon Direct is happening next month. Don't know what that means for Directs in general, but hey, Pokemon Directs at the start of the year are universal constants.
I expect it to be on Pokemon Day, which means that Gen 9 is indeed coming this year.
 

LiveStudioAudience

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
1,856
I don't know if it's been mentioned or not, but Kelios apparently stated that a Pokemon Direct is happening next month. Don't know what that means for Directs in general, but hey, Pokemon Directs at the start of the year are universal constants.
Makes sense, and further suggests that we're in the cycle of week to week news. I'd assume a Partner Showcase and another Twitter drop this month with next month having the Pokemon Presentation, another Partner Showcase, and a possible Indie Direct.
 

Garteam

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I'm sorry, but how the ** would they demand Mario? I'm pretty sure they'd have to have secured rights beforehand to do that, but this implies that they had yet to do so, which sounds like complete bull**
To be fair, I could definitely see an out-of-touch corporate executive saying "The Simpsons and Family Guy had a Mario cameo without getting the rights. Surely you guys could do it.", failing to understand the clear differences between those examples and their demands.
 
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