Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Shroob]

Sakurai himself stated that "Everyone is Here" is the main theme of Ultimate.

I mean, yeah? We all know that lol

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai himself stated that "Everyone is Here" is the main theme of Ultimate.

better than ever

debatable.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I mean, yeah? We all know that lol

No harm in reiterating.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Chrom could've been a unique character and I'd have been cool with it. He's an awesome character and deserves the best.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Chrom could've been a unique character and I'd have been cool with it. He's an awesome character and deserves the best.

Incredible brother and father with an ocean of humility and just a twinge of moronic tendencies… definitely my kind of guy.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I feel like a lot of people skip over this angle completely and say that it's because "these people are unfamiliar with FE"... like, yeah, they're casual Nintendo fans. Maybe there's regional differences, but over here in Brazil, very few people who fit that description actually leave the quartet of Mario-Zelda-Pokémon-Smash. And even then it's not like they play every single game in these series.

I'm aware this is completely anecdotal, so it ultimately barely means anything, but that's pretty much the behavior I've observed too. Most casuals I know react with apathy to the Pokémon and FE newcomers in Smash 4 and Ultimate.

Part of this might be a generational/genre focus issue as well. I think there's loads of Smash fans that go way back with Nintendo, but are fairly meh about JRPGs (of the timed or strategic variety) outside the token stuff like Pokemon or Paper Mario. Thus is in that sense FE still feels fairly outside their interests especially given its rise to prominence in the West happened well after the establishment of various other Nintendo IP's.

I think it would be a bit like if Capcom had their own multi IP fighting game franchise and being an old school Mega Man/Darkstalkers fan while Monster Hunter got more and more focus in terms of content. It would make complete sense from a financial perspective to include, but if such a series was one that person had no interest in, the potential for antipathy towards it over time would go up.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Re: Fire Emblem.

I've only played two FE games so I'm not exactly a fan or anything but at least I'm not blindly hating on the series when I agree with the common consensus of there being too many FE characters in Smash/them all being too samey. I played Awakening and I was really glad to have Robin in even though her moveset kind of falls flat in a lot of ways. Not so keen on Chrom and Lucina, it's bad enough they're clones of clones of clones, but they were terrible characters in their own game, so I have zero attachment to them despite playing it. I know Awakening saved the series and all but imo its really not justified in having more than just Robin when FE's entire shtick in Smash is having a revolving cast.

Fates is the other game I played and well... that's just a bad game so no brownie points for Corrin, she's blatantly the FE character with the least reason to be in Smash, even with the most diverse FE moveset besides Robin. I haven't played the rest of the games so all I can say for the rest of the cast is based on Smash. Apparently Three Houses is some sort of monumental FE game like Awakening was, but Byleth is just a really boring addition, FE aside. On paper, different weapons should make her just as diverse as Robin and is something FE fans have wanted in Smash to quell the sword stigma, but in effect, they're all just big swinging hitboxes. She swings the axe for her down air the same as Ike does with his sword, the spear both stabs and swipes, something swords already do in Smash, ironically her actual sword is more unique with the whip thing, but overall, Byleth is still just a swordie with a different coat of paint.

Marth doesn't do much for me personally on a moveset basis, but he's the OG so Smash without him would just feel wrong. Ike also doesn't really do much for me but is different enough from Marth and he got two games/is one of the most popular FE characters apparently so I just don't have much to say on him.

Ironically Roy is my favorite of the bunch, his moveset is tweaked just enough to turn Marth's boring kit into something fun and I can't pinpoint exactly why. It's funny since apparently he's the least favorite among FE fans, so while he's on most people's chopping blocks I'd actually be disappointed if he was cut again.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Ironically Roy is my favorite of the bunch, his moveset is tweaked just enough to turn Marth's boring kit into something fun and I can't pinpoint exactly why. It's funny since apparently he's the least favorite among FE fans, so while he's on most people's chopping blocks I'd actually be disappointed if he was cut again.

Fire Emblem snobs:
"NOOOOO ROY IS THE WORST LORD HE GETS PROMOTED SO LATE AND HE DOESN'T BREAK THE GAME IN HALF NOOOOOO"

Smash snobs:
"NOOOO ROY IS LOW-TIER AND IS AN INFERIOR VERSION OF MARTH YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO PLAY HIM NOO NOOOO"

Me:

I'm easy to please.

 

[Deleted member]

Part of this might be a generational/genre focus issue as well. I think there's loads of Smash fans that go way back with Nintendo, but are fairly meh about JRPGs (of the timed or strategic variety) outside the token stuff like Pokemon or Paper Mario. Thus is in that sense FE still feels fairly outside their interests especially given its rise to prominence in the West happened well after the establishment of various other Nintendo IP's.

I think it would be a bit like if Capcom had their own multi IP fighting game franchise and being an old school Mega Man/Darkstalkers fan while Monster Hunter got more and more focus in terms of content. It would make complete sense from a financial perspective to include, but if such a series was one that person had no interest in, the potential for antipathy towards it over time would go up.

I very distinctly remember a time when Fire Emblem's odd exclusivity to Japan (despite looking very western romantacized middle ages) was something that American fans were upset over. Fire Emblem wasn't necessarily well known before Melee brought it all the way out into the light but there were hardcore fans of the series outside of Japan. If the rumors are true and Sakurai considered leaving Marth and Roy out of the game in the west, I really wonder what that timeline would have looked like.

Once the games started getting official releases over here, I remember people wanting Fire Emblem characters in Brawl. Ike was considered a triumph addition, and even after he was announced people still wanted Lyn and Black Knight. People still want Lyn. Fire Emblem draws a lot of ire because two of its reps have been in Smash longer than they've been in Fire Emblem and most of them feel forced. It's a franchise that wasn't even really a hit in Japan and like I mentioned in a previous post, it was going so far south that Nintendo was at the end of their patience with it during Awakening's development, like, that was almost the end of the line for the franchise, at least for a long time.

In a world where people speculate over Smash characters based on popularity polls or franchise earnings, Fire Emblem can't really stand up in either competition and it just comes off as weird and again, forced. Like Nintendo has to take every opportunity to throw Fire Emblem in our face and if it means shilling them on the Smash billboard then so be it. I'm saying all of this as a person who is generally a fan of Fire Emblem: I own and have played all but three of the games released in the US. I don't have anything against the franchise, the characters are just added into Smash in a slimy and uncaring way.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

should have been edelgard though

You're right, It should of been Claude

 

[subterrestrial]

honestly shouldve been edelgard the more that I think abt it...who else uses an axe besides villager steve?

 

[Deleted member]

honestly shouldve been edelgard the more that I think abt it...who else uses an axe besides villager steve?

It should have been Edelgard but I guess they didn't want to start a civil war in the Smash community any more than they already were going to, or maybe they didn't want to spoil the fact that Edelgard is the objective hero.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I mean I've barely played FE (tactical RPG's aren't really my thing), however I do think that while promotion of the franchise is a factor, I think ease of placement in Smash probably doesn't hurt either. I can certainly complain about not getting more DK or Kirby characters in Smash, but I'll also admit that even just getting semi-clones or echo fighters from such franchises probably is harder to do with them than it is with Fire Emblem fighters, if just based on the nature of offense and what they use as weapons. In the grand scheme of things, it may just be that making a Chrom fairly similar to pr existing fighters is just easier to do (and likely can still do justice to the character in question) than doing so with Dixie or Bandana Dee.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Part of this might be a generational/genre focus issue as well. I think there's loads of Smash fans that go way back with Nintendo, but are fairly meh about JRPGs (of the timed or strategic variety) outside the token stuff like Pokemon or Paper Mario. Thus is in that sense FE still feels fairly outside their interests especially given its rise to prominence in the West happened well after the establishment of various other Nintendo IP's.

I think it would be a bit like if Capcom had their own multi IP fighting game franchise and being an old school Mega Man/Darkstalkers fan while Monster Hunter got more and more focus in terms of content. It would make complete sense from a financial perspective to include, but if such a series was one that person had no interest in, the potential for antipathy towards it over time would go up.

It doesn't help that Fire emblem games are just so hard to play legally. Like in my case, I've started the franchise with Three houses and it grew to be one of my favorite game on the switch. After that I've bought the Shadow dragon ports. It didn't aged that well but it's still a fun experience and I was happy to learn Marth's story (it's pretty deep for NES jrpg standards)... But then if I wanted to play Ike games I have to buy the 100$ game on Ebay. I don't have my 3ds anymore so there's no way for me to play Awakening and Fates (and from what I saw those games are also pretty expensive today). I feel that if they had released GBA games on Switch some Nintendo fans would have been curious to try Fire emblem 7 and 8 but somehow we're 4 years into the Switch and we can't play those (and yeah I know you could play on an emulator but for most casual they don't want to deal with this).

 

[slrigeigdew]

Now that we are at the end of Fighter's Pass 1 I want to get my thoughts out about it before Pass 2.

- I loved this reveal, they are fun to play too, I just find everything around this character fun. although I 100% understand any disappointment.
- This was the most unexpected reveal and I couldn't be happier that they are in, they brought a great stage and a fantastic music.
- I love DQ so I got pretty excited when Hero leaked, I enjoy playing as them and their stage is great too.
- I've never been the biggest fan of Banjo but I know how much it means to people so I totally felt the hype when they were revealed and I really like the stage.
- I only had a passing interest in KOF before his reveal after the leak I just ended up loving the game and the character, Terry is incredibly fun to play and KOF stadium is one of my favorite smash stages of all time.
- I really liked Three Houses, Byleth was quite boring, but I actually really like how they play in Smash I just wish it was a bit more concentrated. and Garreg Mach was my most wanted stage at the time so I'm glad it's in

I was gonna type out my full thoughts for FP1 but you pretty much summed it up:

I never expected and to be included but I'm so glad that they were

and were cool to see even if I never played their games

, ironically enough, convinced me to buy Three Houses and ended up being the only one from this Pass that I main despite leaving the worst first impression on me. (What can I say? I'm a sucker for slow heavy hitters)

was a nice bonus even if I had to pay for them

I think if you see leaks are around, and want to know NOT WHO Specifically the character is, but how potentially exciting the characters, I would only look at this general Thread right here because since it's not focused on one character, a Comment that's spoiled isn't gonna give away who the character is

Agreed if CP11 ever does actually leak then expect every gaming website and social media account to be talking about them 24/7 until the broadcast airs

 

[BlondeLombax]

All this talk just reminded me that FEH’s artstyle is extremely reminiscent of Paper Mario’s. You could put Paper Peach next to some of the map sprites and she’d blend right in, head shapes and all.

I’m sorry if this is dragging away, but I’m just saying, if they ever have a PM+FE crossover, I’d buy it. Intelligent Systems is one of the devs for WarioWare, after all, it’s not entirely too farfetched.

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

Anyone else kinda find it funny that amidst all this FE rep talk - Ike hasn’t come up at all? I haven’t seen him mentioned unless I’ve skipped over some posts by mistake. I guess having a move set that really sets you apart from Marth’s helps haha

 

[DuskFleur]

All this talk just reminded me that FEH’s artstyle is extremely reminiscent of Paper Mario’s. You could put Paper Peach next to some of the map sprites and she’d blend right in, head shapes and all.

I’m sorry if this is dragging away, but I’m just saying, if they ever have a PM+FE crossover, I’d buy it. Intelligent Systems is one of the devs for WarioWare, after all, it’s not entirely too farfetched.

Huh, now that I look at it again, you’re right! I wonder if Paper Mario really was an inspiration for the chibi sprites.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Anyone else kinda find it funny that amidst all this FE rep talk - Ike hasn’t come up at all? I haven’t seen him mentioned unless I’ve skipped over some posts by mistake. I guess having a move set that really sets you apart from Marth’s helps haha

Ike (and to a lesser degree Robin) don't come up that often both because of that and because it felt like they came in fairly naturally. A wholly distinct fighter for Brawl and one for base game Smash 4 was hard to really complain about.

 

[Sucumbio]

Oh my God! Fates yet another fe I haven't played. I'm really nervous about dropping money on another fe since 3h... Is Fates more like 3 houses? I can emulate the gba titles they sound rad actually.... And FEH is actually pretty fun I need to get back into it.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Oh my God! Fates yet another fe I haven't played. I'm really nervous about dropping money on another fe since 3h... Is Fates more like 3 houses? I can emulate the gba titles they sound rad actually.... And FEH is actually pretty fun I need to get back into it.

I’ve heard way, way, way too many differing opinions on Fates to share my own. I reckon it’s a “try for yourself and make up your own verdict” sort of thing, a bit like pretty much anything Sony puts out these days.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

All this talk just reminded me that FEH’s artstyle is extremely reminiscent of Paper Mario’s. You could put Paper Peach next to some of the map sprites and she’d blend right in, head shapes and all.

I’m sorry if this is dragging away, but I’m just saying, if they ever have a PM+FE crossover, I’d buy it. Intelligent Systems is one of the devs for WarioWare, after all, it’s not entirely too farfetched.

Wouldn’t surprise me if it was the basis, Intelligent Systems also makes Paper Mario lol

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I would have liked to play Fates, but I didn't really care for the whole "buy multiple games to experience the full story" thing.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Currently playing through Awakening right now and while I don’t care for the story, the characters and especially gameplay are a lot of fun. Really nice to be able to use my 3DS again. I’ll follow the series in the future to see if anything else interests me.

As for its representation in Smash. I’m not bothered much by it. Only character I think really should have stayed out is Corrin. Chrom and Lucina are Echoes so the 8 reps is more like 6. Overall, I just wish they’d make better stages.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Anyone else kinda find it funny that amidst all this FE rep talk - Ike hasn’t come up at all? I haven’t seen him mentioned unless I’ve skipped over some posts by mistake. I guess having a move set that really sets you apart from Marth’s helps haha

We like Ike.

 

[subterrestrial]

brawl had the best newcomers overall dont @ me

(seriously dont tho)

 

[True Blue Warrior]

brawl had the best newcomers overall dont @ me

(seriously dont tho)

And the most diverse newcomer roster.

 

[subterrestrial]

And the most diverse newcomer roster.

yea ike meta knight and pit all play completely differently despite all being anime swordsmen

 

[Idon]

yea ike meta knight and pit all play completely differently despite all being anime swordsmen

Yeah, Meta Knight gets to play and the other 2 don't.

 

[SNEKeater]

Ike is the best.

Oh my God! Fates yet another fe I haven't played. I'm really nervous about dropping money on another fe since 3h... Is Fates more like 3 houses? I can emulate the gba titles they sound rad actually.... And FEH is actually pretty fun I need to get back into it.

Three Houses isn't really similar to a specific previous FE game. The only think I can think of that 3H shares with Fates is the whole deal about different routes.

If you play Fates I highly suggest playing Fates Conquest though. Gameplay-wise is the best one and IMO still the best one in the whole series. If you mostly care for story, Conquest is probably the worst option, but it's not like Fates Birthright or Revelations are much better. Like, Fates is definitely a game I wouldn't suggest if what you want is a cool story. You might like it but most people don't.

 

[Bobthealligator]

And before people call me out for being a Waluigi supporter. The Mario franchise is actually missing a few important/popular characters namely Waluigi and Toad.

For Fire Emblem, it's just "lets add the 57th random blue haired sword character with no personality just because a new Fire Emblem game came out and needs to be promtoed"

I'm just going to ignore "no personality" bit, but at least each Fire Emblem character is a main character if their game. I do not accept the premise that Waluigi is an important character, and what can Toad really do that Peach, Mario or Luigi don't do already (Captain Toad on the other hand I'd be more than happy with).

I mean, yeah? We all know that lol

I mean, so we 'all' know that? If i had a penny for every time someone claimed Ultimate's theme was "Heroes vs villains" I could probably retire early.

 

[WahHahaha]

I'm just going to ignore "no personality" bit, but at least each Fire Emblem character is a main character if their game. I do not accept the premise that Waluigi is an important character, and what can Toad really do that Peach, Mario or Luigi don't do already (Captain Toad on the other hand I'd be more than happy with).

Please tell me how being a protagonist in your own game makes you important. There are plenty of games that have protagonists, but that doesn't make those characters important. Is the cube from the world's hardest game more important than Waluigi too? It's the protagonist after all. What about Tetris block, clearly a very important character since they are the main protagonist of tetris. I guess Pong Paddle is also a very important character since it's the protagonist.

 

[ARandomZoomer]

Byleth is neat. Don't really care about number of series reps at this point.

 

[Idon]

Please tell me how being a protagonist in your own game makes you important. There are plenty of games that have protagonists, but that doesn't make those characters important. Is the cube from the world's hardest game more important than Waluigi too? It's the protagonist after all. What about Tetris block, clearly a very important character since they are the main protagonist of tetris.

Well it's different "importance" you two are talking about.

Waluigi and Toad are important as iconic mainstays of the Mario series, but as a character in-universe, they're just supporting/side characters (unless it's the Captain Toad subseries).

Conversely the protagonist of an RPG like Byleth is important as the main focus of the game in which the story revolves, but out-of-universe, they're just another protagonist in a long line of characters.

 

[DuskFleur]

Please tell me how being a protagonist in your own game makes you important. There are plenty of games that have protagonists, but that doesn't make those characters important. Is the cube from the world's hardest game more important than Waluigi too? It's the protagonist after all. What about Tetris block, clearly a very important character since they are the main protagonist of tetris. I guess Pong Paddle is also a very important character since it's the protagonist.

 

[Bobthealligator]

Please tell me how being a protagonist in your own game makes you important. There are plenty of games that have protagonists, but that doesn't make those characters important. Is the cube from the world's hardest game more important than Waluigi too? It's the protagonist after all. What about Tetris block, clearly a very important character since they are the main protagonist of tetris. I guess Pong Paddle is also a very important character since it's the protagonist.

More important? Yes, I'd say they are. Should they be in Smash? No, I'd take Waluigi over them on account of the fact that there is absolutely no way you could make a compelling fighting game character out of a rectangle.

View attachment 332097

Really? My post was bait? Have you read the post I was replying to?

 

[WahHahaha]

More important? Yes, I'd say they are. Should they be in Smash? No, I'd take Waluigi over them on account of the fact that there is absolutely no way you could make a compelling fighting game character out of a rectangle.

So even if you're protagonist that nobody knows about, and have only been in one game. The simple fact that you are a protagonist makes you more important.

What kind of logic is that?

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

So even if you're protagonist that nobody knows about, and have only been in one game. The simple fact that you are a protagonist makes you more important.

What kind of logic is that?

Important in what context?
Importance in gaming as a whole? Its Waluigi because he’s a popular character in the biggest gaming franchise ever.

Importance in the actual game itself? The Fire Emblem character wins because they are the main character whilst Waluigi is given side roles.

This isn’t even an argument is it? Its just two different uses of important being treated as if they were the same.

It’s literally just semantics.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

I’ll bite: why are you against wanting Sora? Is it because he’s “another anime swordsman”? Is it because of Disney?

It's Disney.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

With Sora I think there might also be a subset of general SE fans that would prefer another character from that company (Crono, Neku, various FF protagonists, 2B, Denton, etc)