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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Louie G.

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Based on the 14-16 characters so far, we can predict that future third-party characters will also be the from the biggest games in a company's selection and/or the most frequently-requested characters they own.
This is why I've put more faith in Chun-Li lately. Putting it into perspective there isn't a single character in Capcom's arsenal more important, period.

Doesn't disqualify the other candidates in any case, though - Monster Hunter is probably the biggest (feasible) series from Capcom that can be added right now, and if they feel Rathalos is enough then DMC is a distant next step. Phoenix trails behind but has the advantage of a significant ballot presence right up there with Simon or Bayo.

Soooo doesn't really narrow Capcom down too much, but it just reminded me of why I think Chun-Li is especially worth thinking about.
 

SharkLord

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This is why I've put more faith in Chun-Li lately. Putting it into perspective there isn't a single character in Capcom's arsenal more important, period.

Doesn't disqualify the other candidates in any case, though - Monster Hunter is probably the biggest (feasible) series from Capcom that can be added right now, and if they feel Rathalos is enough then DMC is a distant next step. Phoenix trails behind but has the advantage of a significant ballot presence right up there with Simon or Bayo.

Soooo doesn't really narrow Capcom down too much, but it just reminded me of why I think Chun-Li is especially worth thinking about.
Yeah, we've already been pretty centric on Capcom's big guys. It helps that we have a list of their top five in terms of raw sales figures:
1610474581540.png

Since Resident Evil and Mega Man have succumbed to the post-launch content, that leaves Dante, a Monster Hunter rep, or another Street Fighter rep. You could make an argument for Phoenix too, based on ballot scores and the overall recognizability of Ace Attorney, but he's lagging behind in terms of sales. It all depends on how lenient you are with the classifications.
 

Koopaul

Smash Champion
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Oct 29, 2013
Messages
2,336
yeah it honestly looks like a fusion of odyssey, 3d world and sunshine

odyssey structure

3d world engine

sunshine aestetics
I don't think it has Sunshine's aesthetics. It's definitely 3D World's aesthetics. The only thing Sunshine about it is Junior's paintbrush.

Thanks world. I needed the man behind a major pillar of my childhood ruined. I really did.
He sounds like an embarrassing manchild. But if that's the extent of it you should still be able to enjoy his work. It's not like he's Cosby or something.
 
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True Blue Warrior

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Here's a theory I've been thinking about for a little.

Biggest Options Theory
Biggest Options Theory is simple: That each third-party character is one of (Though not necessarily the) biggest options their company has to offer. There's two definitions of "biggest option" here: Impact and recognizability in the overall industry, and popularity in the Smash fanbase.

Let's look at the third-parties so far:

  • :ultsnake: - From arguably the most well-known stealth game and highly influential for storytelling (Though he could've been an exception due to being a Kojima request, he still fits regardless)
  • :ultsonic: - Was Mario's rival back in the day, immensely popular request, Sega's mascot
  • :ultmegaman: - NES legend, one of the biggest requests back in the Smash 4 days, one of Capcom's mascots (Or at least he was)
  • :ultpacman: - Easily one of the most recognizable video game characters period, Bamco's mascot
  • :ultryu: - Mr. Fighting Game himself, one of Capcom's mascots
  • :ultcloud: - Mr. JRPG, cited as being having the most requests for a Final Fantasy character
  • :ultbayonetta: - A potential exception; She was supposedly chosen for the ballot, which would give her the edge in popularity, but there's also the possibility that Nintendo chose her in advance to push her series, which Nintendo helped fund.
  • :ultsimon: - NES star, did well on the ballot
  • :ultrichter: - Sort of an exception; He was an easy clone who Simon took some moves from. Though, he's basically just a Simon alt so we can count him out.
  • :ultken: - The original Echo Fighter; Though, as a borderline-semiclone, he's still fairly easy to make compared to most of the fighters listed here, so we could count him out too
  • :ultjoker: - A recent success, he's been heavily pushed by Sega lately. If we narrow it down to Atlus specifically, his home series is easily their biggest IP (Sorry SMT)
  • :ulthero3: - Representative for the defining JRPG, a cultural phenomenon in Japan
  • :ultbanjokazooie: - Extremely popular, constantly topping polls since the Melee era. If we go for Rare specifically, I think they're easily their most recognizable creation
  • :ult_terry: - The mascot of SNK as a whole, despite his lack of relevance in recent games.
  • :ultsteve: - The biggest game ever
  • :ultsephiroth: - One of the most iconic villains in gaming, and has one of the most iconic boss themes to boot
Based on the 14-16 characters so far, we can predict that future third-party characters will also be the from the biggest games in a company's selection and/or the most frequently-requested characters they own.
This is why I've put more faith in Chun-Li lately. Putting it into perspective there isn't a single character in Capcom's arsenal more important, period.

Doesn't disqualify the other candidates in any case, though - Monster Hunter is probably the biggest (feasible) series from Capcom that can be added right now, and if they feel Rathalos is enough then DMC is a distant next step. Phoenix trails behind but has the advantage of a significant ballot presence right up there with Simon or Bayo.

Soooo doesn't really narrow Capcom down too much, but it just reminded me of why I think Chun-Li is especially worth thinking about.
Chun-Li’s hypothetical Challenger Pack also would lead to SF3, SF Alpha and SF4 music.
 

SharkLord

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Chun-Li’s hypothetical Challenger Pack also would lead to SF3, SF Alpha and SF4 music.
I think that if we're going for a recognizable pack as well as a recognizable character, the best bet would be a Street Fighter 3-centric pack, seeing as Third Strike is the darling of the competitive community and has Chun-Li front-and-center. We could have a general series pack, but that'd feel kinda odd since we already have a general Street Fighter rep in Ryu. That, and just SSBU X STREET FIGHTER would imply it goes over the whole series, and I think we have enough SF2 content as there is. Without the biggest game in the series, I don't really see it being a general Street Fighter pack.
 
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Ivander

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Thanks world. I needed the man behind a major pillar of my childhood ruined. I really did.
Nothing surprising in the 2020s, the years of learning true colors.
Quick question: if Leon Kennedy was playable, what could have been his recovery? I have played all RE games he's in but still can't think of anything.
He does have a grappling hook in Resident Evil 4.
 
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cashregister9

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I think that if we're going for a recognizable pack as well as a recognizable character, the best bet would be a Street Fighter 3-centric pack, seeing as Third Strike is the darling of the competitive community and has Chun-Li front-and-center. We could have a general series pack, but that'd feel kinda odd since we already have a general Street Fighter rep in Ryu. That, and just SSBU X STREET FIGHTER would imply it goes over the whole series, and I think we have enough SF2 content as there is. Without the biggest game in the series, I don't really see it being a general Street Fighter pack.
The funny part is having a Street Fighter III pack wouldn't be very good for Chun-li because there are 3 Street Fighter 3's and 2 of them don't have Chun-li, I can't really see there being a Third-strike only pack because there is only so much you can do with Third-strike content. (I don't think this distinction matters that much I just think the 3 SFIII's is potentially the pinnacle of dumb capcom naming)
 

ZelDan

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I was hoping we'd get more info on Bowser's Fury than we got or I wish I had a better idea of what exactly goes on with it.

I already got 3D World on Wii U, so if Bowser's Fury ends up being too short or not that worth it overall, I have no reason to bother getting 3D World on Switch.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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We could have a general series pack, but that'd feel kinda odd since we already have a Street Fighter 2 rep in Ryu.
Fixed.

I think that if we're going for a recognizable pack as well as a recognizable character, the best bet would be a Street Fighter 3-centric pack, seeing as Third Strike is the darling of the competitive community and has Chun-Li front-and-center. We could have a general series pack, but that'd feel kinda odd since we already have a general Street Fighter rep in Ryu,. That, and just SSBU X STREET FIGHTER would imply it goes over the whole series, and I think we have enough SF2 content as there is. Without the biggest game in the series, I don't really see it being a general Street Fighter pack.
Jokes aside, I agree. Most characters focus on a specific game rather than a franchise:
  • Joker goes so far as to give his series an incorrect name.
  • Hero is more of a general representitive, though Dragon Quest XI S: Echoes of an Elusive Age gets a slightly harder push.
  • Banjo & Kazooie really only do the first two games, though most people would argue that that's a good thing.
  • Terry is the only one who goes out of his way to represent the entire company.
  • Byleth is just Fire Emblem: Three Houses.
  • Min Min is just ARMS...not that there are any other games for her to represent.
  • Steve has a heavy emphasis on Minecraft with a dash of Minecraft Dungeons and Minecraft Earth because they don't want to deal with more than one composer at a time.
  • Sephiroth is just Final Fantasy VII.
With 3ish/8 being more general so far, it's safe to say that challenger packs will focus on their biggest game, and for Chun-Li, that's Street Fighter 3: Third Strike. It is worth noting though, that the exceptions to this rule are characters that aren't tied down to a specific game. So like, the Doom Slayer would likely represent all of Doom since he appears in and is known for all of Doom, but the Dragonborn would be get fairly limited content from previous games in The Elder Scrolls series, if anything at all.

(I don't think this distinction matters that much I just think the 3 SFIII's is potentially the pinnacle of dumb capcom naming)
Clearly you've forgotten about Street Fighter: The Movie: The Game. :p
 

Louie G.

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Like I said last time, I personally see Chun-Li representing the Alpha series just as much if not more than Third Strike.

Her look from that series is iconic and would make for a no-brainer alternate costume, on top of Alpha introducing the EX meter / combo gauge (which they brought over from Darkstalkers, fyi) which could serve as a neat little "DLC gimmick" and distinguish her from the shotos more (allowing Chun-Li to power up her specials with the meter charge like a mini Limit Break - meter has three levels of charge).

I imagine the rest of her content would focus on picking up the slack of whatever went unrepresented through the currently SF2 dominant representation though, which obviously includes SF3 and may bleed into 4 and 5 too.

In a perfect world this would also include Street Fighter EX music but I don't think Nintendo would bother going the extra mile to work that out with Arika.
 
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SharkLord

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The funny part is having a Street Fighter III pack wouldn't be very good for Chun-li because there are 3 Street Fighter 3's and 2 of them don't have Chun-li, I can't really see there being a Third-strike only pack because there is only so much you can do with Third-strike content. (I don't think this distinction matters that much I just think the 3 SFIII's is potentially the pinnacle of dumb capcom naming)
I was kinda under the impression that Third Strike is basically the only SF3 people remembered, partially because of, y'know, EVO Moment 37. That way, nobody would mind if a general SF3 pack just says SSBU X SF3: THIRD STRIKE, because that's the one everyone thinks of.
Jokes aside, I agree. Most characters focus on a specific game rather than a franchise:
  • Joker goes so far as to give his series an incorrect name.
  • Hero is more of a general representitive, though Dragon Quest XI S: Echoes of an Elusive Age gets a slightly harder push.
  • Banjo & Kazooie really only do the first two games, though most people would argue that that's a good thing.
  • Terry is the only one who goes out of his way to represent the entire company.
  • Byleth is just Fire Emblem: Three Houses.
  • Min Min is just ARMS...not that there are any other games for her to represent.
  • Steve has a heavy emphasis on Minecraft with a dash of Minecraft Dungeons and Minecraft Earth because they don't want to deal with more than one composer at a time.
  • Sephiroth is just Final Fantasy VII.
With 3ish/8 being more general so far, it's safe to say that challenger packs will focus on their biggest game, and for Chun-Li, that's Street Fighter 3: Third Strike. It is worth noting though, that the exceptions to this rule are characters that aren't tied down to a specific game. So like, the Doom Slayer would likely represent all of Doom since he appears in and is known for all of Doom, but the Dragonborn would be get fairly limited content from previous games in The Elder Scrolls series, if anything at all.
I think it's largely a matter of circumstance; Games like Banjo-Kazooie and Minecraft just have less games than, say Fatal Fury or King of Fighters, and other series like Persona and Final Fantasy introduce new settings with every numbered installment. Chun-Li could be a general Street Fighter rep, but as I mentioned before, Ryu would make that a bit odd since he came with a large amount of SF2 content and it'd feel weird for a general Street Fighter pack to not represent the biggest game in the series.
 

Sophitia

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I think Chun would either represent II, III, IV or V, I can't see her representing Alpha because then her default would be different, and I can't see them not going with her qipao as a default.
 

Louie G.

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I think Chun would either represent II, III, IV or V, I can't see her representing Alpha because then her default would be different, and I can't see them not going with her qipao as a default.
Oh no doubt her original outfit would be her default - I can just see them leaning heavily into Alpha mechanics to shake things up from Ryu and Ken's more traditional approach, and then obviously giving her the Alpha costume for half of her alts (which IMO has to happen either way).

I feel Chun-Li would be "Smash Bros x Street Fighter" in any case, so I don't see them committing to any particular game over the other vs just taking a lot of inspiration from one or two specific branches of the series to make her distinct.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Like I said last time, I personally see Chun-Li representing the Alpha series just as much if not more than Third Strike.

Her look from that series is iconic and would make for a no-brainer alternate costume, on top of Alpha introducing the EX meter which could serve as a neat little "DLC gimmick" and distinguish her from the shotos more (allowing Chun-Li to power up her specials with the EX meter charge like a mini Limit Break).
Makes sense to me, though I do think it will be limited to her biggest games rather than a pack for Street Fighter as a whole.

Unfortunately the game isn't called "Street Fighter the Movie the game" it's just "Street Fighter The Move"
It isn't? Huh. Although...That is still somehow a worse title since it could cause people to buy it thinking it's a movie. lol

BUT This is where Japan comes in clutch "Street Fighter: Real Battle on Film"
Missed opportunity to call it "Street Fighter: Reel Battle on Film". 0/10

I think it's largely a matter of circumstance; Games like Banjo-Kazooie and Minecraft just have less games than, say Fatal Fury or King of Fighters, and other series like Persona and Final Fantasy introduce new settings with every numbered installment.
I mean sure but there's nothing saying Joker couldn't come from the Persona series rather than the "Persona 5" series, or that Sephiroth couldn't come with literally anything that isn't in Final Fantasy VII.

I still think the observation is valid, and I've taken into account the distinction between characters. Like, if they mostly have one game to represent, then duh, of course they're going to represent it, but it's also true that if there are multiple major titles and the character comes from one specifically, then they'll mostly or completely just represent the one. Conversely, if they appear in most or all of a series's titles, then they're going to have more general stuff. So like, Demifiend would just be Shin Megami Tensei III, Dragonborn would just be The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, and Midna would just be The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, but Doom Slayer would be all of Doom, Lara would be all of Tomb Raider, and Master Chief would be all of Halo. Though...that does lead more credence to Chun-Li being a general representative...

Chun-Li could be a general Street Fighter rep, but as I mentioned before, Ryu would make that a bit odd since he came with a large amount of SF2 content and it'd feel weird for a general Street Fighter pack to not represent the biggest game in the series.
I'd say it wouldn't be all that weird considering the Street Fighter 2 content is already there, and it's not like it wouldn't get any content considering one of the most obvious tracks that would be included would be a remix of Chun-Li's Street Fighter 2 theme.
 

ahemtoday

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No joke, Dan would be an instant main. Imagine how much fun Sakurai and the team would have animating him.

This is why we need a proper Smash vs Capcom
Man, Nintendo vs. Capcom would be absolutely sick. I'd love a more traditional fighting game with Nintendo characters, and it'd also be a good excuse for me to pick up the Versus games.

Now I just want to make an NvC roster...
 

CapitaineCrash

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This is why I've put more faith in Chun-Li lately. Putting it into perspective there isn't a single character in Capcom's arsenal more important, period.

Doesn't disqualify the other candidates in any case, though - Monster Hunter is probably the biggest (feasible) series from Capcom that can be added right now, and if they feel Rathalos is enough then DMC is a distant next step. Phoenix trails behind but has the advantage of a significant ballot presence right up there with Simon or Bayo.

Soooo doesn't really narrow Capcom down too much, but it just reminded me of why I think Chun-Li is especially worth thinking about.
I do agree with you, but Smash doesn't always go with the most recongnizable character, sometimes they like to add new universe. For example, you could argue that the second most important Sega character after Sonic is Eggman (or Tails), but instead of adding a second Sonic characters they add Bayonetta and a Persona character. So even if Chun-li is very important, they could always go straight to Devil may cry or Monster hunter.

Personally, I don't think Chun-li chances are that high. The leak imply that she was replace by Ken because he was simpler to develop, in the same way that Decidueye was considered, but "replaced" by Incineroar. Smash have an history to consider character and not put them later (like Chorus kids in Smash 4). To be fair Chun-li is extremely important to gaming, so I could totally see her getting in, but I still think that Monster hunter and Dante chances are higher.
 

DarthEnderX

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Based on the 14-16 characters so far, we can predict that future third-party characters will also be the from the biggest games in a company's selection and/or the most frequently-requested characters they own.
Ah, so CLEARLY Arthur, Bill Rizer and Kunio will be the big winners here.
 

CapitaineCrash

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Here's a theory I've been thinking about for a little.

Biggest Options Theory
Biggest Options Theory is simple: That each third-party character is one of (Though not necessarily the) biggest options their company has to offer. There's two definitions of "biggest option" here: Impact and recognizability in the overall industry, and popularity in the Smash fanbase.

Let's look at the third-parties so far:

  • :ultsnake: - From arguably the most well-known stealth game and highly influential for storytelling (Though he could've been an exception due to being a Kojima request, he still fits regardless)
  • :ultsonic: - Was Mario's rival back in the day, immensely popular request, Sega's mascot
  • :ultmegaman: - NES legend, one of the biggest requests back in the Smash 4 days, one of Capcom's mascots (Or at least he was)
  • :ultpacman: - Easily one of the most recognizable video game characters period, Bamco's mascot
  • :ultryu: - Mr. Fighting Game himself, one of Capcom's mascots
  • :ultcloud: - Mr. JRPG, cited as being having the most requests for a Final Fantasy character
  • :ultbayonetta: - A potential exception; She was supposedly chosen for the ballot, which would give her the edge in popularity, but there's also the possibility that Nintendo chose her in advance to push her series, which Nintendo helped fund.
  • :ultsimon: - NES star, did well on the ballot
  • :ultrichter: - Sort of an exception; He was an easy clone who Simon took some moves from. Though, he's basically just a Simon alt so we can count him out.
  • :ultken: - The original Echo Fighter; Though, as a borderline-semiclone, he's still fairly easy to make compared to most of the fighters listed here, so we could count him out too
  • :ultjoker: - A recent success, he's been heavily pushed by Sega lately. If we narrow it down to Atlus specifically, his home series is easily their biggest IP (Sorry SMT)
  • :ulthero3: - Representative for the defining JRPG, a cultural phenomenon in Japan
  • :ultbanjokazooie: - Extremely popular, constantly topping polls since the Melee era. If we go for Rare specifically, I think they're easily their most recognizable creation
  • :ult_terry: - The mascot of SNK as a whole, despite his lack of relevance in recent games.
  • :ultsteve: - The biggest game ever
  • :ultsephiroth: - One of the most iconic villains in gaming, and has one of the most iconic boss themes to boot
Based on the 14-16 characters so far, we can predict that future third-party characters will also be the from the biggest games in a company's selection and/or the most frequently-requested characters they own.
This is why I always thought that if we're getting a Koei Tecmo rep, it's going to be Hayabusa. You could make a case for a Warriors character, but I think there's pretty much no way that we would get a Atelier or Dead or alive character before Ninja gaiden or Warriors.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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"So bad, he's... still bad."
Yeah, Dan's shtick has changed slightly over the years to the point where he's good enough to actually expect to win eventually, but still bad enough that you feel silly for losing to him, and it looks like his current thing is going to be having a silly gimmick that's as fun as it is impractical, but I'd imagine Super Smash Bros. would go back to the comically bad angle since that's what he's known for. He might even be an Echo Fighter down the road since his moveset changes don't matter balancing wise; he's supposed to be undertuned anyway.

I can just see his Gadouken going just far enough to hit Dan if it's reflected, and not a single bit farther.
 

SharkLord

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Here's a theory I've been thinking about for a little.

Biggest Options Theory
Biggest Options Theory is simple: That each third-party character is one of (Though not necessarily the) biggest options their company has to offer. There's two definitions of "biggest option" here: Impact and recognizability in the overall industry, and popularity in the Smash fanbase.

Let's look at the third-parties so far:

  • :ultsnake: - From arguably the most well-known stealth game and highly influential for storytelling (Though he could've been an exception due to being a Kojima request, he still fits regardless)
  • :ultsonic: - Was Mario's rival back in the day, immensely popular request, Sega's mascot
  • :ultmegaman: - NES legend, one of the biggest requests back in the Smash 4 days, one of Capcom's mascots (Or at least he was)
  • :ultpacman: - Easily one of the most recognizable video game characters period, Bamco's mascot
  • :ultryu: - Mr. Fighting Game himself, one of Capcom's mascots
  • :ultcloud: - Mr. JRPG, cited as being having the most requests for a Final Fantasy character
  • :ultbayonetta: - A potential exception; She was supposedly chosen for the ballot, which would give her the edge in popularity, but there's also the possibility that Nintendo chose her in advance to push her series, which Nintendo helped fund.
  • :ultsimon: - NES star, did well on the ballot
  • :ultrichter: - Sort of an exception; He was an easy clone who Simon took some moves from. Though, he's basically just a Simon alt so we can count him out.
  • :ultken: - The original Echo Fighter; Though, as a borderline-semiclone, he's still fairly easy to make compared to most of the fighters listed here, so we could count him out too
  • :ultjoker: - A recent success, he's been heavily pushed by Sega lately. If we narrow it down to Atlus specifically, his home series is easily their biggest IP (Sorry SMT)
  • :ulthero3: - Representative for the defining JRPG, a cultural phenomenon in Japan
  • :ultbanjokazooie: - Extremely popular, constantly topping polls since the Melee era. If we go for Rare specifically, I think they're easily their most recognizable creation
  • :ult_terry: - The mascot of SNK as a whole, despite his lack of relevance in recent games.
  • :ultsteve: - The biggest game ever
  • :ultsephiroth: - One of the most iconic villains in gaming, and has one of the most iconic boss themes to boot
Based on the 14-16 characters so far, we can predict that future third-party characters will also be the from the biggest games in a company's selection and/or the most frequently-requested characters they own.
Going off of this, I'm going to try and compile a list of each represented companies' biggest possible series. Please do review this list; I want to make sure it's accurate. Bold is already represented in the base game, italics are a maybe, strikethrough has post-launch content. Fighters who got a DLC pack. are strikethrough'd and bolded, as are companies who got a pack in FP2 specifically. I'll take interviews and such into account later.

Konami
  • Metal Gear
    • Metal Gear Rising Revengeance
  • Castlevania - Already covered, very extensively I must add. Not sure there's much left that count feasibly be added at this point.
  • Bomberman
  • Frogger
  • Contra
  • Silent Hill
Sega (Atlus)
  • Sonic the Hedgehog
    • Eggman Empire - Not necessarily a subseries or game, but is a side of the series that hasn't been covered yet
  • Persona
    • Shin Megami Tensei - Ironic that it's listed under Pesona, when it's the other way around
  • Yakuza
  • Puyo Puyo
  • Sakura Wars
Capcom
  • Mega Man
    • Mega Man X
    • Mega Man Battle Network
    • Mega Man Legends
  • Street Fighter
    • Street Fighter 3: Third Strike
    • Street Fighter IV
  • Monster Hunter
    • Only a boss; Full pack isn't out of the running
    • Monster Hunter Rise
  • Resident Evil, also known as Biohazard in Japan...
  • Devil May Cry
  • Ace Attorney
Bandai-Namco
  • Pac-Man
  • Tekken
  • Tales
  • Dark Souls
  • Digimon?
Square Enix (Taito)
  • Final Fantasy
  • Dragon Quest
  • Kingdom Hearts?
  • Tomb Raider
  • Nier: Automata
  • Space Invaders
  • Bubble Bobble
Microsoft (Rare, various indies)
  • Banjo-Kazooie
  • Minecraft
  • Cuphead?
  • Halo
  • Gears of War
SNK
  • Fatal Fury
    • King of Fighters
  • Samurai Shodown
  • Metal Slug
Again, feel free to review this list and give me some suggestions. I want to make this one a definitive list.
 
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