Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SharkLord]

also wtf your music teacher is based

Eeyup. Walked in a couple years ago, he asked what I liked, I answered video games, and now just about my entire library is just video game tracks. And then I entered my Ys phase over the pandemic and played nothing but Ys tracks for months on end, and with him I think we might be some of the only people to have music tabs for lesser-known Ys tracks like Ruins of Moondoria and Crossing Rage.

Yeah

 

[Schnee117]

I don't think that people being mad when we ended the base game with Kencineroar and Plant can be blamed on the leak itself.

I mean, it certainly helped to exaggerate the feelings.
Here's a supposed "leak" with Geno and Banjo and Shadow and Isaac and Mach Rider and Ken and so many people believed it.
But then we got half of those characters and the only one shared was the one that had already leaked prior. Instead we get a Pokemon and a Mario enemy whilst two of those characters were revealed as ATs and the two "big" ones weren't to be seen until far later.

People being unsatisfied is fine, but the Grinch definitely played a part in making it worse.

You may have a different recollection, but boy howdy are you wrong lol.


Ask probably any staff member here who were on duty.

Ask PushDustin how they straight up had to ban Box and Grinch discussion in the SourceGaming Discord server due to how toxic it got.

Go back and read a lot of the archived posts on this site, and see how many of those accounts no longer post here.


The whole situation was an ungodly mess.

Just look at all the harassment a bunch of insiders and journalists got literally anywhere.
Grinch was toxic as all hell.

 

[Shroob]

I mean, it certainly helped to exaggerate the feelings.
Here's a supposed "leak" with Geno and Banjo and Shadow and Isaac and Mach Rider and Ken and so many people believed it.
But then we got half of those characters and the only one shared was the one that had already leaked prior. Instead we get a Pokemon and a Mario enemy whilst two of those characters were revealed as ATs and the two "big" ones weren't to be seen until far later.

People being unsatisfied is fine, but the Grinch definitely played a part in making it worse.



Just look at all the harassment a bunch of insiders and journalists got literally anywhere.
Grinch was toxic as all hell.

Grinch leak burnt a lot of bridges between the Smash community and a large amount of others.


PushDustin, ArtsyOmni, Gamexplain all got harassed to kingdom come and back for being critical of the leak.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I mean, it certainly helped to exaggerate the feelings.
Here's a supposed "leak" with Geno and Banjo and Shadow and Isaac and Mach Rider and Ken and so many people believed it.
But then we got half of those characters and the only one shared was the one that had already leaked prior. Instead we get a Pokemon and a Mario enemy whilst two of those characters were revealed as ATs and the two "big" ones weren't to be seen until far later.

People being unsatisfied is fine, but the Grinch definitely played a part in making it worse.

It can't have helped but I think its negative effects are overstated. There was no way to have those final reveals go over well. The reveals that we'd had so far had been so great that Incineroar and Piranha Plant could never live up to the hype. I think the fact that Kencineroar was leaked and that it was a known factor and still did nothing to smooth over the negative reactions speaks volumes to how inevitable it was.

 

[Schnee117]

I remember a surprising amount of transphobia being rampant around then too from the people who for some reason only ever made and used an account when it was still 'up in the air' about legitimacy

Yeah, I'm just kinda not inherently trusting anyone saying the Grinch was anything other than a toxic cesspool tbh

It can't have helped but I think its negative effects are overstated. There was no way to have those final reveals go over well. The reveals that we'd had so far had been so great that Incineroar and Piranha Plant could never live up to the hype. I think the fact that Kencineroar was leaked and that it was a known factor and still did nothing to smooth over the negative reactions speaks volumes to how inevitable it was.

Nah the Grinch absolutely multiplied the negativity a ton and it flat out negated Kencineroar being known about because too many people were disregarding everyone believing the latter because it inherently clashed with Grinch

Like, being known is one thing, actually being accepted is another

 

[Shroob]

It can't have helped but I think its negative effects are overstated. There was no way to have those final reveals go over well. The reveals that we'd had so far had been so great that Incineroar and Piranha Plant could never live up to the hype. I think the fact that Kencineroar was leaked and that it was a known factor and still did nothing to smooth over the negative reactions speaks volumes to how inevitable it was.

Right.


But then you flip it around and remember that like, 75% of the community bought into it according to Reddit and Smashboards polls, and anyone who spoke against it was flamed to hell and back.


ArtsyOmni did a very valid and careful deconstruction, and got tons of hate.

PushDustin, again, had to outright ban any discussion due to toxicity.

GameExplain were being called out as "Nintendo shills" and their comment sections were flooded with people demanding them to cover the leak, and then when they did, people exploded in the comment section.


It's great to have rose-tinted glasses, but let's not revisionist history Grinch period as being fun.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Cacomallow had its merits and flaws when it first came out but it just wouldn’t. stop. coming. back.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Did Gamexplain actually cover the Grinch Leak prior to the November Smash Direct?

From I recall a lot of the criticism they got was because they didn't mention a word about it one way or another until it was disproven.

As far as Cacomallow, it was notable that it was often not even Geno or Doom fans bringing it up in the Newcomer thread, just people randomly commenting about it and thus kicking off the arguments about it yet again.

 

[Shroob]

Did Gamexplain actually cover the Grinch Leak prior to the November Smash Direct?

From I recall a lot of the criticism they got was because they didn't mention a word about it one way or another until it was disproven.

They did.


They put out a very, VERY short video of basically just saying "It's fake."



To be honest, that only made things worse, because then people were sure they were Nintendo shills and on "Damage control".

 

[Metal Shop X]

I honestly can't freakin' remember if I participate much in the Grinch Debate.

Think I flip-flopped alot, but think at a point I started to look less at it because at how much noises it was starting to make.

 

[SneakyLink]

Did Gamexplain actually cover the Grinch Leak prior to the November Smash Direct?

From I recall a lot of the criticism they got was because they didn't mention a word about it one way or another until it was disproven.

As far as Cacomallow, it was notable that it was often not even Geno or Doom fans bringing it up in the Newcomer thread, just people randomly commenting about it and thus kicking off the arguments about it yet again.

I think I remember they did, but it was a shorter video that was not in depth.
I think… I don’t remember that period of speculation that well.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

They did.


They put out a very, VERY short video of basically just saying "It's fake."



To be honest, that only made things worse, because then people were sure they were Nintendo shills and on "Damage control".

Yeah, now I'm recalling more of it, it was specifically that the short nature of the video with minimal explanation as to why it was fake ended up getting them attacked a lot.

 

[Schnee117]

Where's that Einstein of Social Engineering post lol

 

[MarioKartRenderOwner]

I have such fond memories of like 20 long tweet threads CONVINCED the gamexplain guys were covering up for some massive leak and nintendo was paying them off to cover the most shameful leak of all time or something and if I recall the ending to the story was just "they were told by a nintendo rep incineroar was in the game at some event so they didn't bother to give the grinch leak more attention as to not create wild expectations and fanbase outrage"

as someone who was fooled by the grinch leak I look back on it very fondly despite everything, the memes and discussion were fun, the fact there was an incredible amount of discussion on a leak CALLED the "grinch leak" that had it's entire basis on illumination's grinch film "unseen renders" is at the end of the day, a little funny and I think it's fun to look back on

in terms of other leaks I think are funny to look back on I recall a semi-discussed rumor about Gardevoir getting in which ya know popular pokemon makes sense, but it came with the added info of "oh gothetelle from gen 5 will it's echo fighter" which was incredibly funny and I wish to go to the timeline where that specific pokemon was in smash so bad

i loveeee this specific image "leak" too because the renders for Ken and Llyod are so funny looking

Ken looks like he ate a bee and is trying to keep a serious face, love it

semi-related to this image, wild to remember how prevalent skull kid was in base game discussion, seemed like an absolute lock of a character for a bit, showing the moon as an assist trophy without him was VERY cheeky, same with shadow

as for least favorite leaks I tend to take leaks and rumors a LOT less seriously than most people i just think they're fun, i love talking about them no matter how dumb they are but cacomallow for sure went on wayyyy too long and I think a lot of people unfortunately were really grasping on it for hope, understandable ofc but it was unfortunate

 

[Metal Shop X]

Remember when peoples thought ROB was KOS-MOS in the Grinch Leak?

It probably didn't last long, but I do remember some peoples talking about it at first.

 

[TriggerX]

So despite what Sakurai has mentioned about dlc characters coming to a close, does anyone think that this will definitely be the case?

I honestly see them supporting this game for awhile in some form unless a sequel is planned to be out in the next 4 years.

 

[Shroob]

So despite what Sakurai has mentioned about dlc characters coming to a close, does anyone think that this will definitely be the case?

I honestly see them supporting this game for awhile in some form unless a sequel is planned to be out in the next 4 years.

I mean, they're building this up to be the last one.


I don't see why they'd be doing that otherwise.



I can see balance patches and promo spirits going forward, but the substantial content's done.

 

[SneakyLink]

So despite what Sakurai has mentioned about dlc characters coming to a close, does anyone think that this will definitely be the case?

I honestly see them supporting this game for awhile in some form unless a sequel is planned to be out in the next 4 years.

Nintendo has outright said this is the final character coming.
That said there will likely still be spirit events and tournies and maybe a balance patch or two.

 

[RileyXY1]

Remember when peoples thought ROB was KOS-MOS in the Grinch Leak?

It probably didn't last long, but I do remember some peoples talking about it at first.

KOS-MOS was talked about a lot, surprisingly so for how obscure Xenosaga is.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

KOS-MOS was talked about a lot, surprisingly so for how obscure Xenosaga is.

I think her large crossover presence lends to that

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

As I can't say I have a favorite leak of the past few years (well the Gigaleak was pretty damn cool) I'll just give my thoughts on one Mr. Bogard.

Honestly, Terry is a delight to me. While it was decades ago that I played Fatal Fury, I had casually kept up with some of the details regarding it and the general King of Fighters phenomenon. Beyond how great it was just to get all his content, I think part of my enjoyment was rooted in a sense that if there was one DLC character that Sakurai might have secretly had a hand in selecting, it was him. He's a character that feels where the tribute to his root series is so strong that he's charming to use, even though if I'm being honest, I completely suck with him.

Yeah, the pretzel move mechanics are still something I'm hit and miss with, but the nice thing about Terry is that when you do pull it off, especially the Super Special, it feels pretty damn cool. Basically he's someone that even with my issues, I'm still compelled to get better with him long term and of the traditional fighters we've gotten (him, Ryu, Ken) he'll be one that will always feel special to play as.

 

[GalacticPetey]

agnes leak

This leak was always so funny to me and have no idea why people entertained it. Aside from some goofy looking renders like Ken, Isaac literally has the wrong hair color. You would think that would be cause to ditch it immediately lol.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

This leak was always so funny to me and have no idea why people entertained it. Aside from some goofy looking renders like Ken, Isaac literally has the wrong hair color. You would think that would be cause to ditch it immediately lol.

Lloyd’s face looked like a PS2 model deadass

 

[Shroob]

This leak was always so funny to me and have no idea why people entertained it. Aside from some goofy looking renders like Ken, Isaac literally has the wrong hair color. You would think that would be cause to ditch it immediately lol.

To be 100% fair.


That Ken still looks better than SFV Ken.

 

[Metal Shop X]

KOS-MOS was talked about a lot, surprisingly so for how obscure Xenosaga is.

I think her large crossover presence lends to that

There was just alot adding up at the time, key word being at the time.

Kinda sad she didn't made it in one way or the other, but eh, can't stay stuck in the past for too long as they say.

 

[Shroob]

I still remember when that one KOS-MOS mod video got copyright struck for "Mario Kart Tour" on the eve of TGA.



I don't think I'll ever understand that one.

 

[GalacticPetey]

To be 100% fair.


That Ken still looks better than SFV Ken.

This is true

 

[Schnee117]

To be 100% fair.


That Ken still looks better than SFV Ken.

You'd have to go to the centre of the Earth to go under that particular bar

 

[Metal Shop X]

I still remember when that one KOS-MOS mod video got copyright struck for "Mario Kart Tour" on the eve of TGA.



I don't think I'll ever understand that one.

Someone wanted to do a little trolling.

That's my best guess.

 

[Shroob]

You'd have to go to the centre of the Earth to go under that particular bar

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


WHY DOES HE LOOK LIKE WEIRD DIO


AAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I still remember when that one KOS-MOS mod video got copyright struck for "Mario Kart Tour" on the eve of TGA.



I don't think I'll ever understand that one.

Probably a troll

There was just alot adding up at the time, key word being at the time.

Kinda sad she didn't made it in one way or the other, but eh, can't stay stuck in the past for too long as they say.

KOS-MOS should have been base game with a T-elos echo, and it’s fairly obvious echoes can’t be dlc

speaking of Echoes I don’t see Echoes as a concept going away. I hope if the next game builds off Ultimate more echoes can happen. Still a shame we got only 7

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

You may have a different recollection, but boy howdy are you wrong lol.


Ask probably any staff member here who were on duty.

Ask PushDustin how they straight up had to ban Box and Grinch discussion in the SourceGaming Discord server due to how toxic it got.

Go back and read a lot of the archived posts on this site, and see how many of those accounts no longer post here.


The whole situation was an ungodly mess.

Thanks for being the first to say it. When people started talking about the Grinch leak I immediately thought back to how much of a ****show Grinch leak speculation was. As someone who knew the Grinch leak was fake (there were too many inconsistencies on the banner), I got so much hate for simply disagreeing with the general consensus. I don't believe in blocking people, but I had to block around 10 people because I was getting targeted harassment here and didn't want to put up with it. Overall it felt like forever when it was, in reality, only a single week where it all went down.

The Grinch leak, while one of the most impressive fake leaks from a technical and social engineering (something something einstein) standpoint, isn't something to recall fondly. The community's never been more toxic, and I'll take boring 4chan text leak talk any day or the week over the complete ****show Smash spec was during the height of the Grinch leak.

 

[Firox]

View attachment 331973
Cacomallow had its merits and flaws when it first came out but it just wouldn’t. stop. coming. back.

Part of that was because of how long it took for Sephiroth to finally show up and kill it.

 

[Noipoi]

Member when Katalina talk was big?

That was weird.

 

[Shroob]

Member when Katalina talk was big?

That was weird.

As someone who actually knows the game, yes, it was VERY weird.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


WHY DOES HE LOOK LIKE WEIRD DIO


AAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Don't worry, that's not his default look.

Spoiler: This is:

 

[Noipoi]

As someone who actually knows the game, yes, it was VERY weird.

I don’t even remember why we were talking about her, but she was a hot topic for about a week and a half and then we never spoke of her again.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Where's that Einstein of Social Engineering post lol

Here it is:

Yeah it's the craziest person in the world going out of their way to make incredibly boring cardboard cut-out models using promotional material from the upcoming Grinch movie because he's thinking 47 steps ahead and knows that both Bandai-Namco and Universal studios contract the same obscure French marketing company. To this end, he then got himself an office, printed out the name of an employee of said company, and haphazardly half blurred out the name because, once again, he's some kind of super genius beyond the mental capacities of mortal man and he knew that the internet's crack team of cybersleuths would find his red-herring name in seconds.

This absolute Einstein of social engineering also happens to moonlight as an expert artist and after presumably spending hours carefully cutting and pasting characters from the Smash poster, he then went out of his way to produce 7 more drawings of his own with obscure elements like vines for Isaac that hardly anyone would be able to make out, and then, for the fun of it, he saw to making a completely unique drawing of the blank version of Battlefield just because he could. He made sure that this fake roster of his perfectly mirrored one posted on 4chan last month by someone whose first language clearly isn't English because he knew that people would immediately make the connection to the French marketing company that he is pretending produced this image. The fact that 5 new characters lines up with the 5 missing stages from Corocoro was all part of his master plan. He also made sure this coincided with Nintendo renewing relevant trademarks.

The lengths you have to go to believe that this is all an incredibly elaborate leak would make this man one of the most intelligent people to ever walk the Earth. Apparently he knew where people would look at every turn, making him at the minimum more competent than the entire government of Saudi Arabia when it comes to fakery.

I suggest you think about which outcome is the most likely here

Since the leak was fake, you could feasibly call whoever concocted it an Einstein of Social Engineering, if only because they figured out things like specific staff members of an advertising company and related advertising campaigns that'd run concurrently with Smash to lend credibility to the "leak."

I still think it was mariotehplumber. That's the only person I can think of who'd have that level of commitment to ****ing with the Smash fandom.

 

[Momotsuki]

I wasn't out at the time, but now I'm even more glad I wasn't around for Grinch...

 

[Shroob]

Don't worry, that's not his default look.

Spoiler: This is:

View attachment 331975

Oh, trust me, I know of Ken and his

Hair