Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[WeirdChillFever]

I didn't follow the grinch leak but now that I've read up on it...



Wouldn't this mean the leak is basically legit? Granted it didn't predict all the characters mentioned correctly but they are all in ultimate one way or another according to the Wiki...

The “capacity” also includes Spirits, which is a pretty large pool to the point where almost any combination of Nintendo characters would’ve satisfied that condition.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

It’d be funny in a way if Gordon is the final character.
Does anyone remember the Monsum guy who sort of called Half Life Alyx (tho others did too) and then randomly said Gordon was coming to smash as well, but even though he never said when Gordon would come, many assume he’d be CP5?

Inb4 he doesn’t show up till now and Gordon’s the final character… of Pass 2 and not Pass 1 LOL

 

[Eldrake]

If Gordon Freeman is the final character, Inkling should have a role in Gordon's reveal trailer. The first newcomer revealed in Ultimate featuring in the reveal trailer for the final newcomer in Ultimate.

 

[Speed Weed]

True, but you gotta be fair to them, because... that's probably what they've played. Like, okay, I did my research on Phantasy Star in the last few months, but I've still only played PSO2, so I'm more likely to talk about that specific game. In general, people won't stray too far from what they already know. I don't think that even applies to just Smash speculation either, that's how we generally behave as humans.

That's why it's important to keep a clearer head and just tell people of your own experience in these cases, perhaps. That's pretty much how @Ivander got me to play PSO2 in the first place - I randomly asked this thread about it during the time of the Matoi rumors. Not only was Ivander the only one to give me an answer, but he made quite a lengthy post talking about PSO2. Which in turn made me want to give it a shot.

I know it takes time and you're not under any obligation to convince anyone... but hey, it's always cool to get other people to try something you like.

So give us the big *** post on Skies of Arcadia. You know you wanna do it.

That's fair, in all honesty. I think it's just the general state of affairs and How Bad Things Have Gotten that ends up making me really frustrated when sometimes I have to remember that the best way of getting people to know about a thing is to, well, show them the thing.

also doing big-ass posts explaining SEGA games actually sounds like a good idea, I might just do that. I do have to consider which games probably aren't worth covering - I most likely won't do any Sonic games or Bayo or Persona cause these are the franchises with characters already in Smash, but then there are a few others where I could talk about them, but maybe this thread is a little too familiar with them for me to really bother with doing any major lessons on it. I will say I probably would do Skies someday but I don't think it's a very good game to start off on

 

[Opossum]

This stupid argument again...

• Sure. Lower key. Whatever.
• Was big enough for his fans to get his game localized.
  • Were "revealed" after the release of Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3Ds. They do not count as the final reveals because we already knew them through official means.
• /Corrin disappointed, and Bayonetta did have her discourse ("ew sexy characters in my good Christian Nintendo game"), but she wasn't particularly unpopular before reveal, just dismissed.
  • EDIT: And yes we know she wasn't "the ballot pick", but this comment is still true even disregarding her as such.
• / Ken was a popular pick for an Echo Fighter, and while a Pokémon was kind of obligatory (though not unwanted) at this point, the only reason he was unpopular amongst the community was because of the Grinch Leak.
• The only other "final reveal" that can be considered inherently disappointing as a whole since Corrin and Bayonetta's reveals split up the reception.

This is being way too kind to Incineroar, honestly, and that's coming from someone who LIKES Incineroar. Incineroar was literally never without controversy prior to his reveal, to the point where he was very much a "love it or hate it" character since its design got leaked prior to Sun and Moon.

By that margin Incineroar absolutely fits the "low key or controversial final reveal" idea by virtue of being an inherently controversial character.

 

[Noipoi]

This is being way too kind to Incineroar, honestly, and that's coming from someone who LIKES Incineroar. Incineroar was literally never without controversy prior to his reveal, to the point where he was very much a "love it or hate it" character since its design got leaked prior to Sun and Moon.

By that margin Incineroar absolutely fits the "low key or controversial final reveal" idea by virtue of being an inherently controversial character.

SMH revisionist history.

I’ve been an Incineroar stan since day 1 and he’s always gotten ****. But I’m glad smash has granted him some new fans.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I most likely won't do any Sonic games...

Whaaaat? You're not gonna give us a deep dive on Sonic the Hedgehog cannon even though the series itself largely ignores it nowadays?

 

[Deleted member]

This is being way too kind to Incineroar, honestly, and that's coming from someone who LIKES Incineroar. Incineroar was literally never without controversy prior to his reveal, to the point where he was very much a "love it or hate it" character since its design got leaked prior to Sun and Moon.

By that margin Incineroar absolutely fits the "low key or controversial final reveal" idea by virtue of being an inherently controversial character.

As someone else who actually likes the design and lore for Incineroar, he's definitely a low key final reveal. The Smash speculation community is weary of Pokemon in general and people had already been predicting him as the contractual pick because of some Nintendo/TPC exec having him as their favorite Pokemon and noting that Nintendo had done a lot to push him as a poster child of the generation.

 

[Speed Weed]

Whaaaat? You're not gonna give us a deep dive on Sonic the Hedgehog cannon even though the series itself largely ignores it nowadays?

i'm sorry but I'm afraid I am simply too busy figuring out the deep intricacies of Wild Woody lore

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This is being way too kind to Incineroar, honestly, and that's coming from someone who LIKES Incineroar. Incineroar was literally never without controversy prior to his reveal, to the point where he was very much a "love it or hate it" character since its design got leaked prior to Sun and Moon.

By that margin Incineroar absolutely fits the "low key or controversial final reveal" idea by virtue of being an inherently controversial character.

SMH revisionist history.

I’ve been an Incineroar stan since day 1 and he’s always gotten ****. But I’m glad smash has granted him some new fans.

OH. MY. FREAKING. GOODNESS.

DID PEOPLE HATE INCINEROAR LIKE I ORIGINALLY THOUGHT OR DID THEY NOT?!? MAKE UP YOUR FREAKING MINDS PEOPLE!!!

 

[Noipoi]

i'm sorry but I'm afraid I am simply too busy figuring out the deep intricacies of Wild Woody lore

****ing coward

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

OH. MY. FREAKING. GOODNESS.

DID PEOPLE HATE INCINEROAR LIKE I ORIGINALLY THOUGHT OR DID THEY NOT?!? MAKE UP YOUR FREAKING MINDS PEOPLE!!!

People did because they didn't like that the quadrupedal Torracat was suddenly a bipedal wrestler instead of a graceful tiger Pokemon, and even though he wasn't Fighting type he had that vibe about him.

 

[Noipoi]

OH. MY. FREAKING. GOODNESS.

DID PEOPLE HATE INCINEROAR LIKE I ORIGINALLY THOUGHT OR DID THEY NOT?!? MAKE UP YOUR FREAKING MINDS PEOPLE!!!

It’s not the most beloved Pokémon, but it’s got a niche but dedicated fanbase. And I think it’s smash incarnation has endeared a lot of people to it.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

It’s not the most beloved Pokémon, but it’s got a niche but dedicated fanbase. And I think it’s smash incarnation has endeared a lot of people to it.

What niche are we talking about here Noi?

I'm thinking VGC Pokémon with good bulk, Parting Shot, and Intimidate but there's also another very different niche Incineroar appeals to and I just wanna make sure we're on the same page here.

 

[Noipoi]

What niche are we talking about here Noi?

I'm thinking VGC Pokémon with good bulk, Parting Shot, and Intimidate but there's also another very different niche Incineroar appeals to and I just wanna make sure we're on the same page here.

There’s the people who like it competitively.

The people who like it for it’s funny design and lore inspirations (me)

And the people who like it because [hyperlink blocked]

 

[Idon]

Considering every final character has been "low-key"

Perhaps the last character now will be... "Lo-ki."

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

People did because they didn't like that the quadrupedal Torracat was suddenly a bipedal wrestler instead of a graceful tiger Pokemon, and even though he wasn't Fighting type he had that vibe about him.

OK but the next time I say that people (at least initially) hated Incineroar for these reasons I better not get a single "uM akSuALlY inCIneRoAr wAS pOpULaR" because NO IT FREAKING WASN'T!!!

 

[Hex D. Jess]

OK but the next time I say that people (at least initially) hated Incineroar for these reasons I better not get a single "uM akSuALlY inCIneRoAr wAS pOpULaR" because NO IT FREAKING WASN'T!!!

Can't wait for the next game's speculation scene, when people will claim Incineroar was always the obvious Gen 7 frontrunner.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Can't wait for the next game's speculation scene, when people will claim Incineroar was always the obvious Gen 7 frontrunner.

So happy I made this years ago, so upset I don't use it more often.

It's a curse, isn't it?

 

[Deleted member]

Can't wait for the next game's speculation scene, when people will claim Incineroar was always the obvious Gen 7 frontrunner.

He was. People wanted Robin Hood Owl, but everyone knew that if we were getting a Pokemon (which we have no choice but to get), we were getting Smoked Tony the Tiger

 

[Hex D. Jess]

So happy I made this years ago, so upset I don't use it more often.
View attachment 331961
It's a curse, isn't it?

What?

 

[Shroob]

Considering every final character has been "low-key"

Perhaps the last character now will be... "Lo-ki."
View attachment 331958

Fire Emblem and booba?

Perfect storm of salt.

 

[BlondeLombax]

What?

Morton's Fork is a principle essentially amounting to "Damned if you do, damned if you don't." I thought it'd be a cute little visual pun.

 

[Hex D. Jess]

He was. People wanted Robin Hood Owl, but everyone knew that if we were getting a Pokemon (which we have no choice but to get), we were getting Smoked Tony the Tiger

Yeah, no. That's some revisionist bull**** right there.
Incineroar was ignored by a good number of people for a good chunk of speculation. Most of the conversation surrounded Decidueye, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc, with Incineroar ocassionally being brought up. He only really took off when Verge said it's not gonna be any of those three.

 

[Noipoi]

From what I remember (and when it comes to Pokémon related matters, my memory is never wrong)

Decidueye was considered the front runner for ultimate all the way up until august or so. Along with Mimikyu, and Lycanroc in third.

In late July/early August verg said the Pokémon rep was none of these options, and Mimikyu being confirmed as a pokeball substantiated those claims. While Decidueye wasn’t technically out, people were taking verg’s word seriously and now we were looking at other options. Mainly Incineroar. And it all kinda ballooned from there.

Iirc, Incineroar wasn’t really considered a front runner until around September.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

sigh

Even so that still would have made Super Smash Bros. roster a 50/50 split in perception if the Grinch Leak didn't raise expectations higher (both in subjective quality and in quantity) than reality, and please don't come to me about Ken being an Echo Fighter; he's still a fighter and in the role people were wanting him in. Anything else is just splitting hairs.

Regardless, if you don't set your expectations to the skies the final fighter isn't absolutely guaranteed to be bad. Those that say otherwise are just being all doom and gloom.

 

[7NATOR]

I actually do have a question also

-What do you think is the biggest example of Revisionist History in Smash Speculation?

 

[Noipoi]

I actually do have a question also

-What do you think is the biggest example of Revisionist History in Smash Speculation?

The biggest example is yet to come.

Gex was totally a lock. We all saw it coming.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, no. That's some revisionist bull**** right there.
Incineroar was ignored by a good number of people for a good chunk of speculation. Most of the conversation surrounded Decidueye, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc, with Incineroar ocassionally being brought up. He only really took off when Verge said it's not gonna be any of those three.

Most posts I saw grudgingly admitted that we were probably going to get Incineroar if we got any Alola Pokemon. Like I said, Decidueye was a want, but most "let's be real" posts were leaning Incineroar for the reasons I mentioned earlier. Maybe it was different here, I didn't check out threads here before the game launched.

 

[Opossum]

As someone who was here from even before Sun and Moon were revealed, here's how I always remember it.

When Sun and Moon launched, pre-announcement Ultimate speculation had Decidueye as the frontrunner, Incineroar as the second option, and Mimikyu at a very distant and rare third. When Ultimate got announced, Decidueye cemented its spot as the frontrunner, Incineroar fell off a bit, Mimikyu rose to become the second most speculated, and Lycanroc popped up out of nowhere after it got a third form in USUM.

Incineroar speculation was always there, but it was greatly overshadowed by Decidueye until Vergeben Said The Thing.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Considering every final character has been "low-key"

Perhaps the last character now will be... "Lo-ki."

I hope you're proud of yourself.

 

[ryuryunonoroi]

Caught back up with the thread. Some people are still clinging to that my dad works for Nintendo I work for Disney music leak, huh?

Everyone else here has already beaten it to death, but I suppose I'll salt the earth by reminding onlookers that companies can sometimes push fake leaks themselves to protect sensitive information. If anything it's even more likely here than the Rapper Mario leak, since the only verifiable info being disclosed is a future presentation date. Anyone can post on 4chan anonymously, including viral marketers and similar internal company operators.

And a reminder that even if a "leak" turns out to be true, without being accompanied by convincing evidence of its authenticity what you have isn't really a leak. It's merely an unofficial bootleg teaser.

Conspiracy theory time.

While Terry is being brought up, does anyone else think it's mayyyybe possible that Nintendo did a little trolling and allowed the SNK leak on purpose so that people would not be so thrown off by the relatively obscure character? (They'd assumedly google SNK themselves or hear about it from a Youtuber) I don't buy this myself really but I heard the theory last year and honestly I kinda like it.

See above.

That is true, I admit I've been entertaining the possibility of getting a big character that blows everyone's minds but that's mostly in jest. Unless Nintendo and Sakurai specifically decided to go with a different approach for their reveal plans in FP2 I don't see us getting a megaton character. But then again we did get Min Min as the first character character so who knows....

Nice Index pfp btw, missed ya man.

A character wouldn't necessarily need to be big to be mind blowing. It could also be a lower key out-there character that few people thought possible.

 

[Opossum]

I actually do have a question also

-What do you think is the biggest example of Revisionist History in Smash Speculation?

For a literal example, there was a time when someone edited a wiki to add an unsourced claim that Peach, Pit, and Meowth were planned for 64, and this "fact" remained uncontested for years despite being totally made up.


Beyond that, any and all attempts to say Banjo was as long time a request as Ridley and K. Rool. Prior to the Smash 4 ballot, Banjo was seen as a potentially cool never-ever pipedream by fans because they knew the Microsoft barrier was likely insurmountable. It didn't become a common prediction or want until Phil Spencer gave his blessing in 2015.

Ridley and K. Rool were in a league of their own because they were not only highly wanted, but expected, and that's why the support was so fervent. They felt like big omissions. Banjo-Kazooie wasn't seen as such because people had every reason to never expect them, until Phil Spencer said the magic words.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

If Gordon Freeman is the final character, Inkling should have a role in Gordon's reveal trailer. The first newcomer revealed in Ultimate featuring in the reveal trailer for the final newcomer in Ultimate.

"Wake up, Ms. Inkling.."

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I actually do have a question also

-What do you think is the biggest example of Revisionist History in Smash Speculation?

Joker being an obvious pick, Bayonetta being predictable and Sonic being a lock.

People's collective memory does Sega dirty it seems.

 

[ryuryunonoroi]

I suspect that speculators leaning more towards Decidueye than Incineroar may have more to do with the Former being playable in Pokken Tournament, as by my accounts Incineroar was equally popular. Nobody cared for the water seal which I can't even be arsed to remember its name.

 

[Noipoi]

I suspect that speculators leaning more towards Decidueye than Incineroar may have more to do with the Former being playable in Pokken Tournament, as by my accounts Incineroar was equally popular. Nobody cared for the water seal which I can't even be arsed to remember its name.

Incineroar gets Smash
Decidueye gets Pokken
Primarina gets nothing

A shame, I actually really love Primarina. I love all 3 Alola starters, really. I think they did a great job on them.

 

[GalacticPetey]

As someone who was here from even before Sun and Moon were revealed, here's how I always remember it.

When Sun and Moon launched, pre-announcement Ultimate speculation had Decidueye as the frontrunner, Incineroar as the second option, and Mimikyu at a very distant and rare third. When Ultimate got announced, Decidueye cemented its spot as the frontrunner, Incineroar fell off a bit, Mimikyu rose to become the second most speculated, and Lycanroc popped up out of nowhere after it got a third form in USUM.

Incineroar speculation was always there, but it was greatly overshadowed by Decidueye until Vergeben Said The Thing.

Shout to me and like the six other people who were gunning for Tapu Koko.

Admittedly I started by wanting Decidueye the most since I felt he was the most unique plus he was my Pokemon Sun starter. After Verge shot him down I began really liking the idea of Tapu Koko but now I love Incineroar so it all turned out fine.

At the risk of drawing some anger though, I always found Mimikyu highly overrated. Not just as a Smash candidate but as a Pokemon in general. I feel like Poke Ball summon was the perfect role for him.

 

[Deleted member]

Beyond that, any and all attempts to say Banjo was as long time a request as Ridley and K. Rool. Prior to the Smash 4 ballot, Banjo was seen as a potentially cool never-ever pipedream by fans because they knew the Microsoft barrier was likely insurmountable. It didn't become a common prediction or want until Phil Spencer gave his blessing in 2015.

Careful now, if you dare even insinuate that Banjo is not part of the triforce of never-evers right there next to the Super Reptile Bros., Banjo lovers will be spawned purely to dogpile you before disappearing back into the void.

 

[Technomage]

Fire Emblem and booba?

Perfect storm of salt.

I may not like getting more FE waifus into Smash, but I do like booba; so, you'd only be getting half the salt from me. XD