Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Mushroomguy12]

Bowser's Fury will be unleashed in a new #SuperMario3DWorld + #BowsersFury trailer tomorrow! Come back at 6am PT to see the 2-minute long trailer. pic.twitter.com/gCDpOiViK1

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) January 12, 2021

New trailer for Bowser's Fury coming soon.

Time for another Everyone is Here.

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[SpectreJordan]

I wonder what the difference between a General Direct & Indies/the Mario Direct is. There has to be something weird that caused them not to do the former for so long. They’re able to do the others despite COVID.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I wonder what the difference between a General Direct & Indies/the Mario Direct is. There has to be something weird that caused them not to do the former for so long. They’re able to do the others despite COVID.

General Directs have a guy being recorded in front of a green screen.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Comes out of hiding

Is the Goku talk over?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Is the Goku talk over?

For now.

Although now we're talking about Directs, so...

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Time for another Everyone is Here.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Is this actually real?

Please be real!

Edit: I saw the date...It's not real...

 

[SpectreJordan]

General Directs have a guy being recorded in front of a green screen.

I can honestly see Nintendo being anal about keeping that. It’s the type of weird & stupid stuff they love to do.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I wish Wario and Waluigi made appearances in standard Mario games. Either as unlockable characters or mini bosses.

 

[CureParfait]

Unpopular opinion: I just don't see Lloyd happening. I might be proven wrong, but it feels that at this point, no one is going to break the Smash 4 mii curse. Outside of base of course.

I agree with that, I feel like the lack of the Lloyd mii costume might be a red herring and he doesn't end up making it.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Is this actually real?

Please be real!

Edit: I saw the date...It's not real...

No it's fanart.

 

[Otoad64]

I wish Wario and Waluigi made appearances in standard Mario games. Either as unlockable characters or mini bosses.

or just the extended mario cast in general tbh

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Unpopular opinion: I just don't see Lloyd happening. I might be proven wrong, but it feels that at this point, no one is going to break the Smash 4 mii curse. Outside of base of course.

Same here because given the trend of returning Sm4sh Miis. He and Monster Hunter are likely to return as such and who I see Lloyd coming with is either

Ryu Hayabusa
Yuri Lowell or any other Namco rep

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Nightmare with Lloyd Mii.

He shall come for your souls!

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I wish Wario and Waluigi made appearances in standard Mario games. Either as unlockable characters or mini bosses.

Wario was in Super Mario 64 DS.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I can see Yuri happening over Lloyd in this specific circumstance where there are no other Namco costumes to fill up a hypothetical Lloyd slot except for Lloyd himself but that would be silly to sell a Lloyd costume alongside a... Lloyd fighter? I'll maintain that either there isn't a Tales fighter or there is and it's Yuri and Lloyd is the Namco costume that comes with him amongst other characters. In an AU where Lloyd was DLC, I would have expected Gil to be saved for Lloyd's presentation among probably a Yuri costume because Symphonia and Vesperia are probably two of the classic biggies that RPG fans might actually recognize. I'd imagine Heihachi would still come with Min Min because of the fighting game correlation.

I know Lloyd has a massive following in the Smash community though and I'm in a Tales of Discord server and there's a lot of discourse among what games are considered good or not + the inevitable swordfighter complaints so a Tales rep is bound to get trashed hard regardless. Not like it will matter if they're top tier though right?

 

[Koopaul]

Every time I see people suggest new characters for 3D World they always give them.powers and abilities that don't really compliment the gameplay. Running and jumping. Look at the main 5. All of their pros and cons revolve around running and jumping. Rosalina is a weird exception but her spin can be used as a double jump.

How does Donkey Kong's ability to lift and throw things help give him an edge in this kind of game? How does it work? I have actually thought about DK in a 3D World type game and it was pretty simple what his skill would be. He has the ability to climb walls even without the Cat Suit.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I can see Yuri happening over Lloyd in this specific circumstance where there are no other Namco costumes to fill up a hypothetical Lloyd slot except for Lloyd himself but that would be silly to sell a Lloyd costume alongside a... Lloyd fighter? I'll maintain that either there isn't a Tales fighter or there is and it's Yuri and Lloyd is the Namco costume that comes with him amongst other characters. In an AU where Lloyd was DLC, I would have expected Gil to be saved for Lloyd's presentation among probably a Yuri costume because Symphonia and Vesperia are probably two of the classic biggies that RPG fans might actually recognize. I'd imagine Heihachi would still come with Min Min because of the fighting game correlation.

I know Lloyd has a massive following in the Smash community though and I'm in a Tales of Discord server and there's a lot of discourse among what games are considered good or not + the inevitable swordfighter complaints so a Tales rep is bound to get trashed hard regardless. Not like it will matter if they're top tier though right?

And besides doesn't Yuri banned from Tales polls because he always comes out on top being the most popular of the protagonists?

 

[Faso115]

At the very least i am thinking that to avoid genre overlap, A Tales characters isn't exactly the next one. We did get Joker and Hero back to back but i guess that's the only outlier.

 

[Perkilator]

Nightmare with Lloyd Mii.

Nah, Chosen Undead with Lloyd Mii.

Though, with that being said:

He shall come for your souls!

How came we've never had a Dark Souls character in a game literally called "Soul Calibur"? ...Or any Namco-related crossover, for that matter? Not even in the Project X Zone series.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Papagenos latest video also had him talking about Lloyd and Yuri being the same as costumes.

How does that work? Lloyd wields dual katanas, Yuri only has one.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

How came we've never had a Dark Souls character in a game literally called "Soul Calibur"?

Hwang's redesign makes him look like a Bloodborne hunter. Is that close enough?

 

[Faso115]

Nah, Chosen Undead with Lloyd Mii.
View attachment 298956
Though, with that being said:

How came we've never had a Dark Souls character in a game literally called "Soul Calibur"? ...Or any Namco-related crossover, for that matter? Not even in the Project X Zone series.

Soul Series was almost dead by the time the Souls games got popular and when the franchise rebooted, i guess they preferred Geralt and 2B over their own IPs i guess? I mean, most guests outside from Tekken have been from series outside of Namco.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Papagenos latest video also had him talking about Lloyd and Yuri being the same as costumes.

How does that work? Lloyd wields dual katanas, Yuri only has one.

That shows how much research he does for his videos

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Papagenos latest video also had him talking about Lloyd and Yuri being the same as costumes.

How does that work? Lloyd wields dual katanas, Yuri only has one.

I don't think PapaGenos has played Vesperia. He's mentioned he loved Symphonia when he was younger on the GC and that might be his only experience. They wouldn't be similar. Their artes differ and their fighting styles differ most importantly.

 

[3BitSaurus]

New trailer for Bowser's Fury coming soon.

Huh. So if this trend continues, we'll probably be drip-fed information until February/March.

Given the timing, it would also make sense with what Kelios said, I suppose.

 

[MooMew64]

Papagenos latest video also had him talking about Lloyd and Yuri being the same as costumes.

How does that work? Lloyd wields dual katanas, Yuri only has one.

Is he talking about them both being costumes, or that they both function the same? Because if it's the latter, then I would hazard a guess that he hasn't researched Vesperia like, at all.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Plot twist: Lloyd and Yuri are both FP 9 and 10 or 10 and 11. Oh boy that would be some massive salt.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Plot twist: Lloyd and Yuri are both FP 9 and 10 or 10 and 11. Oh boy that would be some massive salt.

And then Velvet next.

 

[MooMew64]

Plot twist: Lloyd and Yuri are both FP 9 and 10 or 10 and 11. Oh boy that would be some massive salt.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this timeline.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

How came we've never had a Dark Souls character in a game literally called "Soul Calibur"? ...Or any Namco-related crossover, for that matter? Not even in the Project X Zone series.

Pretty much what Faso said.

By the time Dark Souls really made its franchise massive, the Soulcalibur devs already had settled on Ezio for the guest of SCV... and then the game ended up having literally no single-player content aside from a really ****ty story mode and its roster left many casual fans outright pissed off at Namco, cutting out many beloved favorites and replacing them with inexperienced brats with as much personality as a sheet of paper.

How bad it is? They somehow ****ed up Nightmare by making him a conqueror instead of the bloodthirsty monster he's always been known as. And that's just the tip of the iceberg of how bad V is from a story aspect.

It's honestly a miracle Project Soul wasn't disbanded after that mess.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Wario was in Super Mario 64 DS.

I guess that counts for something.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Is this actually real?

Please be real!

Edit: I saw the date...It's not real...

Sorry man. If it was real we'd still be making fun of Nintendo for "Extended tongue for eat ennemis".

Every time I see people suggest new characters for 3D World they always give them.powers and abilities that don't really compliment the gameplay. Running and jumping. Look at the main 5. All of their pros and cons revolve around running and jumping. Rosalina is a weird exception but her spin can be used as a double jump.

How does Donkey Kong's ability to lift and throw things help give him an edge in this kind of game? How does it work? I have actually thought about DK in a 3D World type game and it was pretty simple what his skill would be. He has the ability to climb walls even without the Cat Suit.

Yeah a lot of these are way overpowered in a way that's not even fun. I mean, who the heck needs 5 free lives every single run of a level?

I think a more practical/realistic set of differences would be:

• Daisy
  • Double Jump
  • Slow
• Yoshi
  • Flutter Jump, & "Extended tongue for eat ennemis"
  • No power ups
• Wario
  • Can bash enemies by running
  • Slow speed, & low jump
• Toadette
  • Easy mode stuff, alongside the Super Crown making its return
• Pauline
  • I...really don't know.
• Waluigi
  • Floaty jumps
  • Slippery shoes
• Donkey Kong
  • Trades in a normal run for a roll attack that can give him forward momentum if he jumps out of it
  • Can't use power ups.

It probably wouldn't be exactly that, but it would at least affect gameplay in a more interesting way.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

• Pauline
  • I...really don't know.

Pauline can use Cappy (or a member of Cappy's species) the same way Rosalina used Luma moves to replicate Galaxy's spin jump.

 

[CannonStreak]

About that Nintendo Direct and the Mario 3D World thing, aren't Directs usually announced a day before they are shown? Not saying it is likely, but I believe a Direct can still be announced tomorrow before the 3D World thing, and even if it is a Mini or a Partners Showcase, I am sure it will likely be shown long before 3D World's trailer.

 

[kylexv]

Time for another Everyone is Here.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

God I wish this was real. Personally, I don't think they will be adding any more playable characters.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

About that Nintendo Direct and the Mario 3D World thing, aren't Directs usually announced a day before they are shown? Not saying it is likely, but I believe a Direct can still be announced tomorrow before the 3D World thing, and even if it is a Mini or a Partners Showcase, I am sure it will likely be shown long before 3D World's trailer.

The issue isn't so much that it couldn't but more that Nintendo has moved towards a trend in the last 6-7 months of one major announcement per week during its reveal cycled. The entire pattern last year was essentially spreading out a seasonal Direct over a month/month and half and effectively giving each bit of news its own week to be significant. Even assuming a general direct was coming back (which doesn't feel likely) it would probably be something the 3D Mario World trailer would be bundled with.

At most I could see a direct being announced next Monday/Tuesday for airing on Wednesday/Thursday and quite frankly a Twitter drop or Partner Showcase seems much more probable.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

this may be fun.

what's the most "niche" character you want in smash?

Rondoline is pretty damn niche.
Neku is kind of niche.
Skull Kid isn't very niche, is he?

Spoiler: I want nobodies that most have never heard of as characters in smash,

View attachment 298756
View attachment 298771

Well. I guess some have been heard of. but still, I want a bunch of these characters. would be nice. So, I made icons. same size as that on the website, being 200x200.

Do you expect people to recognize them? You said yourself that most people have never heard of them. Post their names.

Pretty much this, except you forgot the not on that last sentence.

I seriously don't see why "moveset potential" is still somehow an argument when Sakurai has fleshed out a potted plant and a fighter whose entire moveset was essentially just two basic (and very long) punches, and that's just examples from Ultimate's DLC. There's more examples across the decades Smash has lived.

He can make a moveset out of anything. How many times would he need to prove that for people to get it?

A character with a lot of moves in their source material will be easier for the designers to imagine in Smash. Plant proves those aren't the only characters that can be added, but it stands to reason that it's an advantage in regards to their chances.

I'd say the same.

Except:

Ring Fit Adventure​

Astral Chain​

Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity​

Daemon X Machina​

Animal Crossing: New Leaf​

Pokemon Sword & Shield​

and heck, even Paper Mario: The Origami King​

have all gotten post-launch DLC spirits.

So honestly if there is a first party in the final 3, I have no clue who it'd be even be.
Perhaps we'd get a series that was base-game spirit like Xenoblade, Zelda, or Kirby but I'm not confident they'll pull that card again after Min MIn.

I don't understand why there should be any problem promoting a spirit again. An argument against all spirit promotions made some sense prior to Min Min's promotion, but why would they be okay with promoting one spirit but not two (or up to four)? Even promoting ten spirits to playable fighters would be a drop in the bucket compared to the total number of spirits, so it doesn't make sense to feel significantly more guilty over "wasted" work on ten spirits than Min Min's one spirit.

Personally, considering Sakurai also considered James Bond in Melee despite him being Movie based character, I don't think the Origin of the charcater is what matters the most

It's mostly the whole thing with Rights and potential connection to Video game audiences in which Most Non-Video Game characters fall into a Pitfall. James bond had all the issues with his likeiness and copyright

The Non-Video game Origin characters Nintendo would want to go to first would be a nightmare to get. Goku is the prime example, as he has like 7 Rights holders if you want to represent Goku in Smash. It's part of why he doesn't appear in Crossovers baring ones based around Jump Anime

Characters like Mickey, Iron Man, Spider Man, Darth Vader have to go through Disney, and other popular characters like Harry Potter, Jason Voorhees, Batman, Superman, and Ronald Mcdonald also have to go through others

It's just a different ball game than just negotiating with a Company that's known more for their game making business and such. I'm also unsure if the Companies that own characters like Non-Video Game Origin characters are that in want of a Character in Smash, if Video Games currently are not the prime target. Even if they did, they'd probably want so many Specfications for the characters

Like I Imagine Mickey came up when Nintendo went to go for Sora, and Disney probably had a High Amount of Specifications that just would not work with Smash.

We are also in a Situation where we still have Lots of Iconic Video game Icons to tackle for the Smash roster, that Fans are still requesting. We just barely tackled into the Western Hemisphere of Gaming history, along with Indies and 2nd Reps from 3rd Party Franchises. We got lots of potential characters that have their basis more in the games than other media. There is no need to go for Characters like Batman and Goku yet

I could see Non-Video Game Origin characters happening if perhaps a Smash Spin-off was made just for the idea, like maybe Smash Vs Jump Anime, or Smash vs DC, as I Imagine negotiating with one of these companies for a full tie in game is easier than trying to negotiating a character from each of these companies

However characters like Batman, Spongebob, Goku, Mickey Mouse, and Popeye among others have had major influence on the Gaming Spectrum anyway. I think these characters would still celebrate video game history if they got in. Lots of people grow up or get into games based of these Tie-in Games with these other media Superstars.

I imagine there are a lot of non-video game characters for whom the rights wouldn't be any more difficult to acquire than existing third-party characters. Non-video game characters' absence is better explained by a sincerely principled stance on the part of those in charge of choosing characters.

How would you guys feel about another fighter ballot? Same thing as 4s, a few popular choices become DLC, the rest are saved for next game.

Another ballot would be great, but I hope they would make explicit that characters currently in non-playable roles (spirits, assist trophies, etc.) are eligible. Some people seem to have not understood that in the previous ballot.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

I do not want a bunch of friggin Goku votes again

Why do you care if people vote for Goku?

No... just nope.

Way too many stupid votes on Goku, Shrek, Assist Trophy characters and more. As well the saltiness when Bayonetta got in.

Why do you care if people vote for Goku or Shrek?
Why shouldn't people vote for assist trophy promotions?

Can't say I want another ballot as the first one was what gave a lot of fan-favorite support groups the courage the dunk on any character who wasn't popular to talk about in the Smash fanbase.

Steve and Sephiroth's reactions were great, I don't want to go back to "we aren't talking about this character non-stop since Melee so they are an objectively bad pick" days.

I don't recall much dunking. Regardless, are jerks in the fanbase enough to make you want to deprive all fans of the opportunity to make their wants known to Nintendo in a ballot?

On the topic of a Tales character, from what I can tell the most unique characters would actually be Velvet or Ludger, from what I can tell. The former is mainly kick-based, with one arm having a blade and the other being a big demon arm. The latter alternated between dual swords, dual guns, and a hammer.

Rondoline, having a whip sword, is pretty unique. Byleth doesn't make much use of theirs.

Apparently the guy who ran NIntendo before Iwata was heavily against unions. Since he is gone, I don't know why they would continue with those policies after he left, other than possibly honoring his word or something.

Companies generally dislike unions, because they try to get their members better pay or benefits.

While I know some people don't like this Goku talk, I think since Smash 6 won't be able to reunite the entire cast the way Ultimate has, the only way it can top Ultimate is by brining in non-video game characters like Goku and Iron Man. If not the next smash game is going to be a total dud imo

The next game can top Ultimate by having better gameplay.
In my opinion, adding non-video game characters would make the game worse.

Nintendo purists thought third party characters would ruin the franchise in the pre-brawl days, and now video game purists like you think non-video game characters will ruin the series.

You seem to be assuming that the franchise has not been ruined. Maybe some of the people who were against third-party characters feel differently. You haven't provided any reasoning supporting your implicit claim that non-video game characters won't ruin the series.

Its really not a hard rule that Goku cannot be in smash, just that Sakurai stated e would not do it some years ago. We don't know even know why Sakurai said that, it may not have even been his choice and that direction could have een coming from Nintendo.

As anyone who works in project management or operations knows, project requirements and limitations change with time. I don't think Goku would be a corporate sell out, but instead giving fans what they want. Just like Nintendo did all they could with first party characters and had to move on, they'll come a point(if they haven't already reached it) where they've done all they can to keep the game fresh with gaming characters.

Again, it's merely your opinion that Nintendo "did all they could with first party characters ... "

There is no reason to think the quality of the game would go down.

I think having anime characters hurts SSF2. Do I need reasoning to say that I just don't like how it feels?

In reality Smash will always be defined by it's Nintendo roots and platform-fighter gameplay, regardless of whatever other companies are involved and what fans clamor for.

The 'Smash Bros.' name can be slapped on any game Nintendo wants. Platform fighter gameplay is no more essential to the series than is a lack of non-video game characters. People merely differ in what they want a Smash Bros. game to be.

Putting in Characters like Goku, Batman, Spider Man, Mickey Mouse, and more would be about the Video Games though

Video Games using Licensed Characters and I.Ps are a very huge part of Video Game History that's not represented in Smash at all

Iconic games like Batman Arkham, Spider Man 2 and Marvel's Spider Man, Dragon Ball FighterZ (This game put Arc System Works into the mainstrem), Kingdom Hearts, Superman 64, ET, Battle for Bikini Bottom, Marvel vs Capcom, etc all have Licensed characters involved with it. Lots of people got into Video games through these I.Ps. I know alot of the games I played when I was younger were based on Super Heroes like Batman, Wolverine, Marvel as a Whole

If Superman were to be added to Smash, I don't think it would be because of Superman 64 - lol.

 

[CannonStreak]

The issue is so much that it couldn't but more that Nintendo has moved towards a pattern in the last 6-7 months of one major announcement per week. The entire pattern last year was essentially spreading out a season Direct over a month/month and half and effectively giving each bit of news its own week to be significant. Even assuming a general direct was coming back (which doesn't feel likely) it would probably be something the 3D Mario World trailer would be bundled with.

At most I could see a direct being announced next Monday/Tuesday for airing on Wednesday/Thursday and quite frankly a Twitter drop or Partner Showcase seems much more probable.

I don't know about you, but I was just saying. And I did say I thought it was still unlikely, did I not?

 

[SharkLord]

To be honest I'm not that confident in the Mii Theory holding up. It's more or less just Miis; They wouldn't interfere with the negotiations or anything.

Something of note is that when Heihachi and Gil showed up, I believe some of us thought we'd get a returning Mii with each fighter; Counting the Hunters as one because there's no reason not to, there would be six Miis and six packs. Now that Geno and Chocobo have been grouped together, there's only two Miis and three packs left. Unless they spread out the Hunters for whatever reason, they won't be able to spread out the Miis evenly.

Honestly at this point I'm half-expecting Lloyd's reveal to just be another costume double-sike, complete with Lloyd saying something along the lines of "Am I this ugly?"

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I don't know about you, but I was just saying. And I did say I thought it was still unlikely, did I not?

I hope I didn't come across as harsh or condescending in my reply. I just think that a particular news/reveal cycle by Nintendo has emerged and it would take some significant deviation from that for me to believe we're back in the old seasonal Direct model.