Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Adrianette Bromide]

Then it doesn't matter what you say, if they don't share all of the same characteristics as 3 unique characters, they ARE NOT 3 unique characters.

They were most likely balanced tested as three different unique characters, cope

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah, we really talk about the same topic over & over again in here.

Anyway, i'm still betting on a purple character.
View attachment 328812
What, i'm just drinkin' my beans.

You'd think that people would realize that the trolling was intentional at this point

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I like how we're having yet another argument

Add another one to the tallying...

 

[Jondolio]

Then it doesn't matter what you say, if they don't share all of the same characteristics as 3 unique characters, they ARE NOT 3 unique characters.

Semantics. They still take the same amount of dev time as a unique fighter.
Honestly I might be done arguing with you, you never know when to admit you're wrong

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Again with 4, were it not for technical limitations, the only cuts would've been derivative characters and a third-party.

Considering got to return despite transformations being cut, would have been cut no matter what.

That's like saying every playable Pokemon should have a Trainer behind them because their entrance animation has them come out of a Poke Ball.

Actually that would be a pretty neat idea.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Because they are 2 characters in one.

And cutting either one counts as one cut, just as cutting Squirtle and Ivysaur counts as two cut characters.

Perhaps this explains it better: The Pokémon Trainer isn't actually a character. It's Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard as characters under their name. Cutting any one of the three counts as a roster cut because they are 3 characters in one slot.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

You'd think that people would realize that the trolling was intentional at this point

Ah but you see, I have already won this battle of wits over the internet as just now, I have imagined myself as the chad face and my enemy on the other side as the SOYJAK FACE! AHAHAHAHA

/s btw

Tl;dr just don't get aggrevated, it's what they probably want lol

 

[Shroob]

Let this end.

Let
This
END

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Let's all agree that Random should never be cut.

Screw Random! It's not even a real character. I'm adding Ditto instead.

 

[Metal Shop X]

You'd think that people would realize that the trolling was intentional at this point

Trolling? On Smashboard dot com?

What's next, Ultimate Online getting rollback?

Both cases will never happen.

 

[WahHahaha]

And cutting either one counts as one cut, just as cutting Squirtle and Ivysaur counts as two cut characters.

Perhaps this explains it better: The Pokémon Trainer isn't actually a character. It's Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard as characters under their name. Cutting any one of the three counts as a roster cut because they are 3 characters in one slot.

The slot is NOT Squirtle,Ivysaur and Charizard. It's pokemon trainer. The characters do NOT have their own unique final Smash's or down B's.

You can say that they are 3 unique characters, but not that they count as separate slots, which is what people have been trying to argue.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Trolling? On Smashboard dot com?

It’s more likely than you think.
(Free PC Check!)

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Screw Random! It's not even a real character. I'm adding Ditto instead.

Let's be real though, casual fans would find the idea of Ditto imitating the likes of Kazuya and Ridley to be hilarious.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Screw Random! It's not even a real character. I'm adding Ditto instead.

Ditto but every attack is randomly selected from a different character. His neutral special could be Shulk's with Ganon's fsmash.

 

[Jondolio]

It's times like these I like to remember the ignore button exists.
Anyway, if the final character is purple I'm betting on Toxtricity, which I'd be cool with.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The official statement from Sakurai is Brawl has 39 characters. Ivysaur, Squirtle, Sheik(which ironically was revealed first despite not having the core icon of the two on the CSS) and Zero Suit Samus are 100% characters programmed in. So are every Echo, no matter how lame they are(goddamnit, Daisy. Richter is slightly better, as noted some time back that his Fire move does affect at least once match up a tiny bit).

They are all separate characters, regardless of the CSS' design. Pokemon Trainer does not have his own actual ID Number for a reason. He's a 3-in-1 full character set. So are Pyra and Mythra, who were just listed as two characters.

The games do get odd, cause Smash 64 has tons of programmed separate characters as various NPC clones/enemies, while others are just changed gameplay states(Kirby Team has infinite of their respective B move they take from another character. This small thing no longer happens during Melee, so likely a bug in programming). Overall, there's 25; playable 12, Fighting Polygon Team members, Master Hand, Metal Mario, and Giant Donkey Kong. Later games make most characters except the core Fighting Teams(Polygons, etc.) into truly different characters. Whereas Giant DK and Metal Mario are the normal playable characters, but with a gameplay state changed to make them look like a special NPC. Dark Link is the only otherwise example of where he has an unusable costume color(pure black model).

There's a lot of trivia you can find related to this, though I lack the data to say how many fully programmed characters are in after Melee. Nana included(until she's actually playable via costume slots, at least. Though I don't know if you're completely playing as Nana or just a Nana-designed Popo. Either way, Ice Climbers are two programmed characters to begin with. Due to the hefty CPU Nana requires. I can't say if the other ones like the Pikmin(each type?) and Luma are true CPU programming or not. Probably so, but I lack the files).

 

[N3ON]

Considering got to return despite transformations being cut, would have been cut no matter what.

I disagree. I think that once they knew the transformation mechanic wouldn't work, they were just de-prioritized and work on them probably ceased.

But it's not something we have an answer on, so we're not going to progress past an impasse.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You can say that they are 3 unique characters, but not that they count as separate slots, which is what people have been trying to argue.

Not really no. They were just saying that Squirtle and Ivysaur were cut. Nothing more and nothing less really.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Add another one to the tallying...

With all due respect sir, this is the newcomer thread.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Considering got to return despite transformations being cut, would have been cut no matter what.

I disagree. I think that once they knew the transformation mechanic wouldn't work, they were just de-prioritized and work on them probably ceased.

Adding to this, Sheik was likely just grandfathered in, and Zero Suit Samus was kept because reasons (Metroid: Other M probably had something to do with it).

Squirtle and Ivysaur meanwhile have literally no reason to be in the game other than to make the Pokémon Trainer concept work.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

You can say that they are 3 unique characters, but not that they count as separate slots, which is what people have been trying to argue.

Except people are literally arguing with you saying it's not fair to count Squirtle and Ivysaur as cuts because they're not individual characters which is blatantly false. But good job trying to spin the argument in some other direction, I guess?

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

The slot is NOT Squirtle,Ivysaur and Charizard. It's pokemon trainer. The characters do NOT have their own unique final Smash's or down B's.

You can say that they are 3 unique characters, but not that they count as separate slots, which is what people have been trying to argue.

If slots are only what matters, and regardless of whether the fighter is in the game with what is essentially an entirely unique moveset.

Then I apologize everyone, Ultimate does not in fact contain every character in the series. You see, Charizard doesn’t have a slot on the roster, meaning he isn’t a fighter.

Lawsuits are being made to sue Nintendo for daring to give Smash Ultimate the tagline “Everyone is Here!” Despite Charizard clearly not being fighter like he was before. More at 7, back to you Randy.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I disagree. I think that once they knew the transformation mechanic wouldn't work, they were just de-prioritized and work on them probably ceased.

But it's not something we have an answer on, so we're not going to progress past an impasse.

Fine, but I am still going to make a controversial Pokemon related statement and say that ew are not getting a Gen 8 Pokemon as DLC.

 

[Jondolio]

Fine, but I am still going to make a controversial Pokemon related statement and say that ew are not getting a Gen 8 Pokemon as DLC.

I think it's more controversial to say we are getting one. I would know.

 

[Dinoman96]

Sheik was a two time veteran and Zero Suit Samus was literally the only other playable representive the Metroid series had prior to Ultimate besides regular Samus. Meanwhile Ivysaur and Squirtle were only in Brawl and there were dozens of other Pokemon characters on the roster already, with Mewtwo on the way as well.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Let's be real though, casual fans would find the idea of Ditto imitating the likes of Kazuya and Ridley to be hilarious.

This technically already happens, but I need all these characters with Ditto faces to not just be a mental image.

Ditto but every attack is randomly selected from a different character. His neutral special could be Shulk's with Ganon's fsmash.

There are a few ways you could handle it, and all of them would be entertaining IMO.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Fine, but I am still going to make a controversial Pokemon related statement and say that ew are not getting a Gen 8 Pokemon as DLC.

I mean I don't really think that's controversial because Isle of Armor and Crown Tundra came out June and October last year, so if a Pokemon was planned, why wouldn't they have released it somewhere in that time frame instead of now?

 

[N3ON]

Fine, but I am still going to make a controversial Pokemon related statement and say that ew are not getting a Gen 8 Pokemon as DLC.

I agree with your controversial statement, accidentally making it less controversial.

Also originally I thought you said "ew at getting a Gen 8 Pokemon as DLC", and I agreed with that as well.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Squirtle and Ivysaur meanwhile have literally no reason to be in the game other than to make the Pokémon Trainer concept work.

That and, you know, all the Gen 1 starters are hugely iconic and important to Pokemon history with Squirtle himself being particularly popular and well known. They have more of a "reason" to be in than Zero Suit Samus as she'd probably be even less missed than they were, as she is an alternate version of a character that would still be around.

 

[N3ON]

Adding to this, Sheik was likely just grandfathered in, and Zero Suit Samus was kept because reasons (Metroid: Other M probably had something to do with it).

Squirtle and Ivysaur meanwhile have literally no reason to be in the game other than to make the Pokémon Trainer concept work.

Sheik was a two time veteran and Zero Suit Samus was literally the only other playable representive the Metroid series had prior to Ultimate besides regular Samus. Meanwhile Ivysaur and Squirtle were only in Brawl and there were dozens of other Pokemon characters on the roster already, with Mewtwo on the way as well.

Yeah, they might've kept ZSS simply for the reason they added ZSS; to bolster Metroid's count above one.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I'll be blunt and honest about it. I have no idea if fighter 11 is a gen 8 mon or not. I will also no try to say it is unlikely as a guise for "I do not want one in Smash." With all that said, I do not want one in Smash

 

[WahHahaha]

Lawsuits are being made to sue Nintendo for daring to give Smash Ultimate the tagline “Everyone is Here!” Despite Charizard clearly not being fighter like he was before. More at 7, back to you Randy.

Except this is actually true. Charizard was a full fighter in Smash 4 but he's not anymore since he's part of a pokemon trainer. I'm not arguing about the fighters not being unique, I'm arguing about them being seperate, which they weren't when they were included, still aren't and never have been.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Yeah, they might've kept ZSS simply for the reason they added ZSS; to bolster Metroid's count above one.

And now we have Dark Samus and Ridley.

I agree with your controversial statement, accidentally making it less controversial.

Also originally I thought you said "ew at getting a Gen 8 Pokemon as DLC", and I agreed with that as well.

Not all Gen 8 Pokemon would be disappointing. Only the starters!

 

[Jondolio]

I'll be blunt and honest about it. I have no idea if fighter 11 is a gen 8 mon or not. I will also no try to say it is unlikely as a guise for "I do not want one in Smash." With all that said, I do not want one in Smash

I find it likely but don't want one either.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Not all Gen 8 Pokemon would be disappointing. Only the starters!

I mean you put a troll face there but I genuinely would love to see something like Dragapult or Dracovish, I think they'd be really fun, lol

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Also sorry, I am going to be using the troll face a lot since I literally just found out it exists on this forum. The rage comic empire will reign supreme again!

 

[WahHahaha]

Gen 8 pokemon has to be the most ridiculous prediction for the last fighter. I don't know why you would unironically expect it. Nintendo isn't gonna rush in and ask Sakurai to promote a game that came out after the DLC is finalized, over 2 years after it came out when it never even needed promotion in the first place and make it the last fighter to ever come to Smash Ultimate.

 

[N3ON]

Except this is actually true. Charizard was a full fighter in Smash 4 but he's not anymore since he's part of a pokemon trainer. I'm not arguing about the fighters not being unique, I'm arguing about them being seperate, which they weren't when they were included, still aren't and never have been.

Don't forget about how even though we have Zelda and Sheik and Samus and ZSS, Ultimate failed to bring back the characters of Zelda/Sheik and Samus/ZSS.

Frankly I can't believe Brawl cut Samus in the first place. And to replace her with Samus/ZSS. What a scandal.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

CP11 won't be a Gen 8 pokemon
Cp11 will be ALL the Gen 8 pokemon


And yes, I'm happy to confirm this means you can play as the ****ing Stonehenge

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That and, you know, all the Gen 1 starters are hugely iconic and important to Pokemon history with Squirtle himself being particularly popular and well known.

Kind of true, but Ivysaur doesn't really share the same status as its other evolutions (though it is my personal favorite of the line), and I don't think most people would argue that we needed all three of them.

They have more of a "reason" to be in than Zero Suit Samus as she'd probably be even less missed than they were, as she is an alternate version of a character that would still be around.

Yeah, they might've kept ZSS simply for the reason they added ZSS; to bolster Metroid's count above one.

And now we have Dark Samus and Ridley.

Keep in mind that Ridley was still deemed impossible by Sakurai at the time. As for why Zero Suit and not Dark at the time...I'd imagine it's because she was already conceptualized, and Metroid: Other M was newer than Metroid Prime. EDIT: So she was technically more relevant, especially with Nintendo's goals with the Metroid series at the time.