Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Gengar84]

Maybe in the far future if their demand gets loud enough, although I'm still waiting for the Rare characters that Nintendo already owns like Dixie Kong and Krystal.

It looks like I’ve got a lot of work to do until then to try to build up support for these characters then lol.

 

[chocolatejr9]

This month is gonna crawl until that Direct isn’t it?

Very much so...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

On the Snake codex thing, I would definitely just use characters other than Colonel, but I would keep any of the ones with Colonel that don't reference Super Smash Bros. Brawl, or say things that are no longer true about a character.

 

[N3ON]

I agree. Its inevitable to get cuts. My main issue is the kind of thinking it begets. Most of it gets pretty insulting and compared to when speculating newcomers, it usually is voodoo shark logic and some biased idea of what makes a character important enough to stay. When it comes to making cuts, I never hear people say "This has a pretty unique moveset/This was a fun adition/This has some unique personality or flavour" when making judgment for what characters should stay. It usually has to do with ratios, how similar they are to other characters, how many games they have gotten between smash titles and how much liked is the character. The fact we barely have any knwoledge on how cuts are made and cans of worms with characters like Mewtwo and Dr. Mario, I just dont think for the most part, cut conversations lead to that much good.

That seems like fearmongering to me. How much of the cut talk on this or the last page has been insulting? Truly insulting, not someone objectively suggesting a character won't return and then someone taking offence at that simply because they like said character.

And frankly, the points you see raised are probably more pertinent factors in determining cuts than things like "fun" and "personality/flavour". Uniqueness does matter, which is why you see clones being suggested more often, that's true. But ratios and how longstanding they are are probably more salient factors compared to the ones you bemoan for being uncommon. That's only insulting if you can't hear negative things said about a character.

Banjo is a character I waited for for twenty years and he's my main, but I still think he's one of the more likely to be cut. That's just life. It doesn't erase the game he was in, or my ability to play it. And maybe he won't be cut, I don't know. This is just guesswork. And more of it is without malice than is being suggested.

Cuts are part of the series, and are fair game for speculation. It doesn't mean you have to join in. Feel free not to, if you don't like to. The truth is, while we are still very much in the dark with how things will transpire, we don't have zero information about how cuts tend to go, and so that's our current direction.

It's not like being perpetually wrong and often in the dark stops us from guessing who will be added. This is just the inverse.

 

[Shroob]

So it seems like the third week of September is the most likely time for a direct now. I just hope it's near the beginning of the week.

Unconfirmed.

Nintendo's flat out done stuff the same week as Sony, so there's nothing saying that the State of Play prevents them from dropping the Direct.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

On the Snake codex thing, I would definitely just use characters other than Colonel, but I would keep any of the ones with Colonel that don't reference Super Smash Bros. Brawl, or say things that are no longer true about a character.

Which of Colonel’s codecs speak as if it were Brawl or have stuff that’s no longer true? If so those can be re-recorded with an alternate character

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

Frankly I would be surprised if Incineroar makes it through the cuts.

He’s got uniqueness going for him. Unless another wrestling themed character comes along and picks up his style (rhythm heaven, pro wrestling on nes) I wouldn’t put em at the top of the cut list.

 

[WahHahaha]

Unconfirmed.

Nintendo's flat out done stuff the same week as Sony, so there's nothing saying that the State of Play prevents them from dropping the Direct.

It depends on what it is though. If it's a huge presentation that reveals gameplay for God of War and a lot of other big titles, I think Nintendo would probably want to hold off on the direct until the week after that.

 

[N3ON]

I mean Sun and Moon broke 3DS sales records, Incineroar has a fun moveset and a lot of personality, and Incineroar is still pretty popular from what I remember. I don't think it'd be weird to see him back, tbh.

I don't imagine we will retain all the Pokemon, and, Pichu aside, he seems among the likelier to go - given the others have just as if not more impressive resumes.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Which of Colonel’s codecs speak as if it were Brawl or have stuff that’s no longer true? If so those can be re-recorded with an alternate character

Ones like Link's that reference his old moveset pre-BOTW or Jigglypuff's that says "It takes all kinds here in Brawl" are the main ones that come to mind.

 

[Shroob]

It depends on what it is though. If it's a huge presentation that reveals gameplay for God of War and a lot of other big titles, I think Nintendo would probably want to hold off on the direct until the week after that.

Why? Nintendo and Sony aren't buddy buddy like Microsoft and Nintendo are.


Knowing Nintendo, they'd not only drop their presentation first, but then throw everything and the kitchen sink into it to make Sony's look like trash in comparison.

 

[WahHahaha]

Frankly I would be surprised if Incineroar makes it through the cuts.

You literally picked one of the most likely characters to come back if we do get cuts. They very rarely get rid of Pokemon, the only one they've ever gotten rid of is Mewtwo. And Incineroar is a pretty popular pokemon from a recent generation.

Him and Isabelle are definitely coming back if the next game has cuts.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Which MGS character that’s popular enough do you think could take Colonel’s place in codecs?

Raiden, maybe? What if Gray Fox for Simon/Richter’s codecs cause in the GC version of MGS1 he’ll read your memory card and if Castlevania has a save he’ll call it out

unsurprising as they’re both Konami IPs but still

 

[WahHahaha]

Why? Nintendo and Sony aren't buddy buddy like Microsoft and Nintendo are.


Knowing Nintendo, they'd not only drop their presentation first, but then throw everything and the kitchen sink into it to make Sony's look like trash in comparison.

So you think a random direct in the middle of September is gonna have announcements that could rival Sony?

Unless they literally reveal Mario Kart 9 in this direct, it's not happening.

 

[Shroob]

So you think a random direct in the middle of September is gonna have announcements that could rival Sony?

Unless they literally reveal Mario Kart 9 in this direct, it's not happening.

Sony's State of Plays have been historically pretty meh


So yes, absolutely.

 

[WahHahaha]

Sony's State of Plays have been historically pretty meh


So yes, absolutely.

It's not a state of play though, it's a PS5 showcase. They're only showing games releasing on PS5 in the future, it will definitely be more exciting than a state of play.

 

[Dinoman96]

You literally picked one of the most likely characters to come back if we do get cuts. They very rarely get rid of Pokemon, the only one they've ever gotten rid of is Mewtwo. And Incineroar is a pretty popular pokemon from a recent generation.

Him and Isabelle are definitely coming back if the next game has cuts.

Uh...



have all been cut before. Pokemon's historically had the most cuts prior to Ultimate.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

bro if they don’t bring back commander video as a Spirit within close proximity of the final character, we’re pouring one out for ya boi

inb4 he IS CP11

 

[chocolatejr9]

Why? Nintendo and Sony aren't buddy buddy like Microsoft and Nintendo are.


Knowing Nintendo, they'd not only drop their presentation first, but then throw everything and the kitchen sink into it to make Sony's look like trash in comparison.

Friendly reminder that we're probably never getting a Sony rep in Smash...

 

[Shroob]

It's not a state of play though, it's a PS5 showcase. They're only showing games releasing on PS5 in the future, it will definitely be more exciting than a state of play.

We'll see about that.


I've tuned into most Sony presentations and left extremely whelmed, so they have a lot to prove to me if they want me to keep tuning into these.

 

[WahHahaha]

Uh...



have all been cut before. Pokemon's historically had the most cuts prior to Ultimate.

Ivysaur and Squirtle are part of Pokemon trainer. I already mentioned Mewtwo and Pichu is basically a clone character.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

We'll see about that.


I've tuned into most Sony presentations and left extremely whelmed, so they have a lot to prove to me if they want me to keep tuning into these.

You uh

you mean underwhelmed right

 

[N3ON]

You literally picked one of the most likely characters to come back if we do get cuts. They very rarely get rid of Pokemon, the only one they've ever gotten rid of is Mewtwo. And Incineroar is a pretty popular pokemon from a recent generation.

Him and Isabelle are definitely coming back if the next game has cuts.

Pokemon is the series that has received the most cuts, at four. And turnaround is turnaround, and I think you can make even stronger arguments for Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Lucario, Greninja, and Trainer.

I'm aware people will defend literally any character that is suggested for cuts. I remember we had a similar conversation about Corrin. And the reasoning is not absent of merit. But cuts will happen eventually, so someone's gonna have to go. I'm not saying Incineroar would be first into the can. I just think he'd be one of the ones closer to the bottom, and thus I'd be surprised if he returned.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Ivysaur and Squirtle are part of Pokemon trainer. I already mentioned Mewtwo and Pichu is basically a clone character.

Ivysaur and Squirtle should still count because they're still entire characters cut from the game, even if they are transformations essentially. They have their own movesets different from each other.

 

[Jondolio]

Incineroar never got promoted as hard as Lucario and Greninja. Out of all the Pokémon not named Pichu, they're definitely the most likely to get cut.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

You literally picked one of the most likely characters to come back if we do get cuts. They very rarely get rid of Pokemon, the only one they've ever gotten rid of is Mewtwo. And Incineroar is a pretty popular pokemon from a recent generation.

Him and Isabelle are definitely coming back if the next game has cuts.

Pichu and 2/3 of Pokemon also got the axe. Pokemon isn’t invincible.

 

[Shroob]

You uh

you mean underwhelmed right

Ya kids with your newfounded lingo.

 

[WahHahaha]

Ivysaur and Squirtle should still count because they're still entire characters cut from the game, even if they are transformations essentially. They have their own movesets different from each other.

They aren't separate characters with spots on the roster though, they're part of an entirely different character that would have been hard to bring back because of 3DS limitations, being hard to program and the decision to make Charizard a full fighter.

So mentioning Squirtle and Ivysaur is extremely unfair, and so is mentioning Pichu. Mewtwo is the only one that counts, but he still got brought back as the first character immediately when they started doing DLC.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Ya kids with your newfounded lingo.

Homie I’m two whole ass years older than u :v

anyway uh

Which MGS character that’s popular enough do you think could take Colonel’s place in codecs?

Raiden, maybe? What if Gray Fox for Simon/Richter’s codecs cause in the GC version of MGS1 he’ll read your memory card and if Castlevania has a save he’ll call it out

unsurprising as they’re both Konami IPs but still

i don’t believe I got any input on this

 

[SKX31]

Yeah the fun part of Kirby Air Ride's City Trial was having all the players on the same map battling each other while doing the other objectives, Smash Run as fun as it was, for some reason put all the players on separate maps so it was hindered in that regard compared to City Trial. If they ever brought back Smash Run in the future I'd like that second point of having everyone on the same map to more closely replicate City Trial.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was due to engine issues or whatever. Smash Run has a scrolling stage and blastzone that depends on player movement. "Depends on player movement" is probably the key phrase since it'd make it difficult to code where the blastzone should be in case two players come across each other.

Yes, a solution would be to lock say the clashing players with a fixed blast zone, most locations within Smash Run are either walk-off or have potentially wonky platform placements. They might be able to create a compromise either with Ultimate's engine (Stage Morph) or a future game's, but I kinda doubt they were able to find one with the 3DS' relatively limited power.

I will say though, if Snake does make it back next game, I'd really like them to do new codecs. I know it would probably be difficult because of Campbell's Japanese VA passing away, but I would love to hear Snake's comments on Mewtwo, plus sillier characters like Villager, Banjo using Kazooie for grenades and holding her as a gun, and Incineroar.

Okay, I'm gonna try writing a potential codec convo:

Snake: "Wait, is that-?"
Otacon: "Yes, Snake. That's Cloud Strife. Ex-Shinra employee and member of the AVALANCHE revolutionary group. Logically he should suffer back pain from carrying that Buster Sword around, but he's genetically engineered by Shinra."
Snake: "Huh, I knew somehow that we have a lot in common. Thanks for confirming my suspicions Otacon."
Otacon: W-wuh-wai, how did you kno- A-anyhow, Cloud fights completely differently to you. He'll try to rush you down, use that sword's reach to his advantage and counteract your attacks with his own. He can also supercharge one of his special attacks when he enters his Limit Break state."
Snake: "Okay, this is starting to sound too much like Gray Fox."
Otacon: "His sword doesn't do a whole lot of shield damage though, and he can be a bit vurnerable when he's on the backfoot. Try to use those two to your advantage."
Cloud: "Hey, I can hear you two!"

This month is gonna crawl until that Direct isn’t it?

Time to sit back and enjoy the show:

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

They aren't separate characters with spots on the roster though, they're part of an entirely different character that would have been hard to bring back because of 3DS limitations, being hard to program and the decision to make Charizard a full fighter.

So mentioning Squirtle and Ivysaur is extremely unfair, and so is mentioning Pichu. Mewtwo is the only one that counts.

Except they literally have different numbers on Ultimate's Fighter page, and saying it's unfair to count them because of 3DS limitations and Charizard going solo is like saying it's unfair to count the Ice Climbers because of Smash 3DS, which it is, but they still count.

 

[Dinoman96]

It's kinda interesting to think that, had Smash 4 been only developed for Wii U, Snake, Lucas and Wolf may of been the only cuts from Brawl.

Ice Climbers and Pokemon Trainer both got screwed over by technical limitations regarding the 3DS, with Charizard being the only Mon salvaged from the latter.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Sounds like you're going to be doing a cover of the DK rap.

You've heard of the DK rap, now get ready for......

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Wouldn't be surprised if it was due to engine issues or whatever. Smash Run has a scrolling stage and blastzone that depends on player movement. "Depends on player movement" is probably the key phrase since it'd make it difficult to code where the blastzone should be in case two players come across each other.

Yes, a solution would be to lock say the clashing players with a fixed blast zone, most locations within Smash Run are either walk-off or have potentially wonky platform placements. They might be able to create a compromise either with Ultimate's engine (Stage Morph) or a future game's, but I kinda doubt they were able to find one with the 3DS' relatively limited power.



Okay, I'm gonna try writing a potential codec convo:

Snake: "Wait, is that-?"
Otacon: "Yes, Snake. That's Cloud Strife. Ex-Shinra employee and member of the AVALANCHE revolutionary group. Logically he should suffer back pain from carrying that Buster Sword around, but he's genetically engineered by Shinra."
Snake: "Huh, I knew somehow that we have a lot in common. Thanks for confirming my suspicions Otacon."
Otacon: W-wuh-wai, how did you kno- A-anyhow, Cloud fights completely differently to you. He'll try to rush you down, use that sword's reach to his advantage and counteract your attacks with his own. He can also supercharge one of his special attacks when he enters his Limit Break state."
Snake: "Okay, this is starting to sound too much like Gray Fox."
Otacon: "His sword doesn't do a whole lot of shield damage though, and he can be a bit vurnerable when he's on the backfoot. Try to use those two to your advantage."
Cloud: "Hey, I can hear you two!"



Time to sit back and enjoy the show:

assuming Cloud would use either of his English VOs

also for Inkling (and potentially Octoling or Off the Hook) the other person on the other end of the codec should be a Splatoon character like Sheldon, Cap’n Cuttlefish or even the Squid Sisters (or OtH if they’re not playable). Bonus if they’re speaking their “language” of warbles and Snake is just like “mmhmm yeah I getchu”

 

[N3ON]

They aren't separate characters with spots on the roster though, they're part of an entirely different character that would have been hard to bring back because of 3DS limitations, being hard to program and the decision to make Charizard a full fighter.

So mentioning Squirtle and Ivysaur is extremely unfair, and so is mentioning Pichu. Mewtwo is the only one that counts, but he still got brought back as the first character immediately when they started doing DLC.

You don't get to decide what counts as a character. By Smash's count, there have been four Pokemon characters cut.

 

[Jondolio]

also for Inkling (and potentially Octoling or Off the Hook) the other person on the other end of the codec should be a Splatoon character like Sheldon, Cap’n Cuttlefish or even the Squid Sisters (or OtH if they’re not playable). Bonus if they’re speaking their “language” of warbles and Snake is just like “mmhmm yeah I getchu”

That'd be hilarious and would fit perfectly

 

[WahHahaha]

You don't get to decide what counts as a character. By Smash's count, there have been four Pokemon characters cut.

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate for the Nintendo Switch system

Gaming icons clash in the ultimate showdown you can play anytime, anywhere when a new entry in the Super Smash Bros.™ series arrives on the Nintendo Switch™ system!

www.smashbros.com

The website has Pokemon Trainer listed as a fighter, and Squirtle Ivysaur and Charizard all being part of that character, it doesn't give them their own separate slots, it just numbers them.

I'm not deciding what counts as a fighter, the people who said Ivysaur, Squirtle and Charizard are separate were.

 

[SNEKeater]

Why? Nintendo and Sony aren't buddy buddy like Microsoft and Nintendo are.


Knowing Nintendo, they'd not only drop their presentation first, but then throw everything and the kitchen sink into it to make Sony's look like trash in comparison.

I mean they're not going to change their plans, whatever the other companies show in their events.

I personally doubt the upcoming Direct is going to be better than the PlayStation Showcase, the Direct will probably feature in it's majority already revealed games such as Metroid or SMT, which will get another marketing push. Then we have Smash, a first party surprise (I think) and not much more, considering 2022 is already quite stacked.

Sony's last big event was literally one year ago, and the branding for this one is not the usual "State of Play" they use for their regular presentations so I assume it's going to be close or on par to their biggest showcases. They also don't have many announced games at the moment unlike Nintendo, so they almost need to announce a few things there.

As long as both events are cool I'm good though lol

 

[Jondolio]

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate for the Nintendo Switch system

Gaming icons clash in the ultimate showdown you can play anytime, anywhere when a new entry in the Super Smash Bros.™ series arrives on the Nintendo Switch™ system!

www.smashbros.com

The website has Pokemon Trainer listed as a fighter, and Squirtle Ivysaur and Charizard all being part of that character, it doesn't give them their own separate slots, it just numbers them.

I'm not deciding what counts as a fighter, the people who said Ivysaur, Squirtle and Charizard are separate were.

They literally all have unique movesets and take the same amount of dev time as 3 characters

 

[WahHahaha]

take the same amount of dev time as 3 characters

No they don't, they all have the same final smash and no down B