Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SKX31]

A lot of Ultimates UI could use some updates. Putting the hazards off toggle in rules instead of SSS makes it extremely annoying to use them. They should be selectable the same way Battlefield and Omega forms are accessed.

Also, I’ll kill someone if it means we get a rematch button.

For extra irony: It's a thing in quickplay. But apparently nowhere else.

Kazuya only has Japanese and Korean chants for some reason.

Korean?


Didn't expect that tbh.

(Not sure if the cheer's any different between Korean / Japanese, but still: )

Tekken is popular in Korea, TBF, and was an arcade staple from the earliest days. Korea's home to some of the most prominent Tekken players and Korea vs. Japan crew battles do draw in significant Korean YT numbers. Knee - a legendary player who's 36 and played competitive Tekken since 2004 (I swear he's going to continue playing at a top level until he literally becomes Heihachi or something) participated in the latest Korea vs. Japan crew battle, and his first to 7 match vs. Nobi* - a respected Japanese veteran himself - drew in over 1 million Korean viewers.

*Link in Korean, English VOD here and timestamped.

Knee mentioned in the first linked video that other fighters like Virtua Fighter, SamSho and KOF also had cabinets in Korea during the 90s... but a financial crisis meant that most fighting games stopped shipping cabinets there. Tekken was the only one that remained; and as such the arcade fighter playerbase became mainly the Tekken playerbase. It wound up coalescing around arcades like the now-defunct Green Arcade in Seoul: I'm pretty sure that the Korean and Japanese arcade playerbase were together a key reason why a lot of Tekken games - incl. Tekken 7 - were initially released on arcades (kinda akin to Dissidia NT).

Now then it is true that consoles are not nearly as popular in Korea as they are in Japan - from what I've seen the Switch is the current best seller with a commonly cited figure being 600K+ (while I wouldn't be surprised if it's ca. 750K now, it's a far cry from Japan's ca. 17 million Switches, which Nintendo themselves have made public), and the response to Kazuya's reveal wasn't as big as I would have guessed beforehand. PC games - specifically internet cafés - are dominant there still, with LoL being particularily popular. But there is still a decently significant Smash playerbase there: there were some eyebrows raised when people discovered that Sejun - the TCG player who's most famous for using Pachirisiru - not only plays Smash at a competitive level too, but also plays .

So yeah, Kazuya having a Korean cheer makes sense.

 

[Ivander]

The thing is, I'm talking about what's likely here. And I don't see a Fire Emblem Heroes character happening. I'm trying to think of a realistic scenario where the final character is not a Pokémon, but is still considered a disappointment, but I'm drawing a blank.

Jonesy is a good contender. Fortnite stigma is still common, he's a decently recent character, when there are alot of character speculation picks that are much older than he is, and he's one of those, like Steve, where he will need to impress with his gameplay trailer before people are sold on him.

 

[Gengar84]

The thing is, I'm talking about what's likely here. And I don't see a Fire Emblem Heroes character happening. I'm trying to think of a realistic scenario where the final character is not a Pokémon, but is still considered a disappointment, but I'm drawing a blank.

Well I think something being a disappointment is entirely subjective. For example, I would much rather have Gengar or the Black Knight than Crash or Rayman but a lot of people would consider the former a disappointment and would be happy with the latter.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

No direct announcement.
Guess tomorrow’s out last hope for something this week.

Patience is the key my friends

 

[Jondolio]

Well I think something being a disappointment is entirely subjective. For example, I would much rather have Gengar or the Black Knight than Crash or Rayman but a lot of people would consider the former a disappointment and would be happy with the latter.

I'm mostly talking about the general consensus. I will most likely eat up whatever character ends up getting in, but there are some characters that have a more exciting feel to them. A promotional Pokémon doesn't have to be disappointing, but I have a feeling that's how most people are gonna see it.

 

[Deleted member]

Me and the boys waiting for the final direct announcement

 

[Gengar84]

I'm mostly talking about the general consensus. I will most likely eat up whatever character ends up getting in, but there are some characters that have a more exciting feel to them. A promotional Pokémon doesn't have to be disappointing, but I have a feeling that's how most people are gonna see it.

Yeah, I won’t be upset no matter who it ends up being. Obviously I would prefer my favorites but I’m not hard to please. I do think it is kind of amusing how far my personal tastes are from the general Smash community.

 

[Momotsuki]

I'd be down for pretty much any Pokémon - Gen 8 or otherwise, that isn't another starter. I'm so sick of the damn starters. Gen 8 is crap but there are some good 'mon designs in there. Grimmsnarl'd be neat!

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Ah, no Direct just yet. Putting on all my chips on an announcement tomorrow.

 

[Gengar84]

I'd be down for pretty much any Pokémon - Gen 8 or otherwise, that isn't another starter. I'm so sick of the damn starters. Gen 8 is crap but there are some good 'mon designs in there. Grimmsnarl'd be neat!

Yeah, I especially love Grimmsnarl’s Gigantimax form. My top three are Orbeetle, Toxtricity, and Corviknight from Gen 8. Overall, I love Gengar, Cofagrigus, and Golisopod as well.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'd be down for pretty much any Pokémon - Gen 8 or otherwise, that isn't another starter. I'm so sick of the damn starters. Gen 8 is crap but there are some good 'mon designs in there. Grimmsnarl'd be neat!

Time for one of GameFreak's greatest designs then!

Spoiler: Here it comes

Bruxish: The Champion of "What the Heck am I Looking at?"!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Do they sometimes announce directs a bit later than usual? I seem to recall one ACNH direct being announced at 5 PM EST last year

 

[Gengar84]

Time for one of GameFreak's greatest designs then!

Spoiler: Here it comes

Bruxish: The Champion of "What the Heck am I Looking at?"!
View attachment 328485

Lol that would at least be really funny. Worst case scenario is it would make a good base for other fish Pokémon for modding.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Yall need to relax and let the announcement happen when it happens

 

[Momotsuki]

Yall need to relax and let the announcement happen when it happens

On one hand, you're objectively correct.
On the other hand... where's the fun in that?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

On one hand, you're objectively correct.
On the other hand... where's the fun in that?

I find not obsessing over when nintendo says something pretty fun

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Yeah I don't see it. I could be wrong but I really don't see why Nintendo would pick a mobile game character over a rep from the newest entry of their biggest franchise.

I guess we’re on the same page about patterns then. A Fire Emblem character wasn’t a serious prediction, really more of an absurd way to show that the “unhype final DLC” “pattern” consists of components that no longer are seriously applicable, one of them being a “subpattern“ of the DLC tending to end with a Fire Emblem character. I don’t believe that to be a pattern that must be honored a third time, thanks to the circumstances of there being no Fire Emblem main game left to represent, just as much as I don’t believe that the final character must be quote-unquote unhype, since this is not a base game with possible unlockable characters and I don’t see a possible first party “Play as the protagonist of the game you’re playing now” pick, more commonly referred to as “shill pick” as being overtly possible either.

I think that representation (referencing the game's items and such) and playstyle have to be developed simultaneously, side by side.
Villager uses the Animal Crossing items indeed, his/her playstyle is decided according to what the character does in the original games. That bullet-hell-like playstyle is possible because in Animal Crossing there isn't much that can translate well into an "attack", so they went with the items which feel more like weapons the most... the truth is, in fact only a small amount of Villager's attacks are indeed projectiles, most of their attacks are stuff like the umbrella, pulling out grass from the ground, digging with a shovel, using a wooden stick, and so; the few projectiles are the most defining attacks because they are the more useful when Villager is placing their traps on the stage, to control the space. The playstyle is a derivation of several different technical aspects of the character, for sure they didn't think "let's go bullet hell for the sake of it". In the original game, the character has limited mobility, he/she builds and arranges stuff, and can place traps (but that's already an item so we can't use it): let's make the character static, give them something to do in place, and equip them with some long range stuff in order to defend the area when they're standing in place. Offcourse, the in place stuff has to be traps, not the actual trap item but stuff that can act as traps for the opponents regardless.

Playstyle is also a relative thing, relative to what the other characters already in the game do. If there's a character who already has a similar playstyle, maybe it's better to change it to something different in order to keep them more unique. This is why Kazuya was chosen over Heihachi right? He does have the devil gene, he can transform and shoot stuff... if he didn't he would have been just another Ryu-Ken-Terry.

My point is, I disagree about playstyle coming first and representation last, I think they have to be done simultaneously, else you are doing something wrong* (*Ganondorf).

EDIT: On top of that, there's also the personality of the character to take account of... I don't mean the actual personality, but the "feel", which consists of animations, visual and sound design (art style), expressions etc. This has nothing to do with playstyle but it still plays a major role into a character's uniqueness.

Thank you for making this post and I agree whole-heartedly with it. Villager wasn’t made “bullet hell” by design first-and-foremost, but as you later explain there was rhyme-and-reason to how the various Animal Crossing elements were put together with a certain skeleton logic of “Limited mobility, builder-type move with long range moves to supplement that”. Either way, their playstyle is more focussed, more directed than ”he uses items“ in the same way Waluigi’s moveset would be more directed than “he uses sports items”.

And that was my point, that there’s more than the visual representation of a set of which items, props or references to this and that sport would build up Waluigi’s moveset. Of course there‘s a balance to be made between intent and flavor lest Waluigi becomes a Ganondorf figure, but I was going against the notion that “he could use sports items” was a valid, full-proofed concept when you need both the focussed playstyle intent that forms a skeleton for the specific references to fully take form to create a great moveset. There has to be room for both function and flavor, and I suppose in trying to counterbalance the influence flavor has on the common speculation on Waluigi’s moveset, I definitely oversold the function. Villager is more than the function of bullet hell which made me mix up intent (“Villager is a bullet hell character first and foremost”) and focus (“Considering Animal Crossing’s playstyle, a long-ranged move would suit his kit well.”)

 

[Staarih]

Yall need to relax and let the announcement happen when it happens

Well fortunately the upcoming Direct will be the last Direct with any sort of Smash-anticipation beforehand, assuming it will have a reveal of course.

Then again if you're an overall Nintendo fan you'll just never stop being antsy about Directs. I concede as such.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

On one hand, you're objectively correct.
On the other hand... where's the fun in that?

Exactly. That's why I'm performing a magical ritual that will make it happen quicker. If you wanna do it with me, then step 1 is sleep, and step 2 is wake up every so often to see if it happened yet.

I'm kidding, though one year when I was young I would come home and ask if it was my birthday, and if the answer was "no", then I would go take a nap in the middle of the living room floor. lol

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Exactly. That's why I'm performing a magical ritual that will make it happen quicker. If you wanna do it with me, then step 1 is sleep, and step 2 is wake up every so often to see if it happened yet.

I'm kidding, though one year when I was young I would come home and ask if it was my birthday, and if the answer was "no", then I would go take a nap in the middle of the living room floor. lol

I don’t see a flaw in the logic. Gonna go take a nap rn to test this theory

 

[Jondolio]

I'd be down for pretty much any Pokémon - Gen 8 or otherwise, that isn't another starter. I'm so sick of the damn starters. Gen 8 is crap but there are some good 'mon designs in there. Grimmsnarl'd be neat!

The only starter I wouldn't groan at seeing is Decidueye. He's been my most wanted since before the game was announced and I just can't completely let go.
Grimmsnarl is awesome tho, definitely my favorite of the new gen. Him or Toxtricity would be my top choices as far as a Gen 8 'mon goes.

 

[Gengar84]

The only starter I wouldn't groan at seeing is Decidueye. He's been my most wanted since before the game was announced and I just can't completely let go.
Grimmsnarl is awesome tho, definitely my favorite of the new gen. Him or Toxtricity would be my top choices as far as a Gen 8 'mon goes.

For me, it’s Blastoise since that has always been my brother’s favorite Pokémon and most wanted alongside the Battletoads so I’d be really happy for him.

I’m curious if I’m the only Orbeetle fan around here. It is in my top four favorites of all time but I never see anyone talk about it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well if we must pick a good starter, then Samurott would be my choice...Definitely not because Oshawott was my first starter ever...nope.

Honestly the problem isn't the starter Pokémon for the most part, it's the fact that the starter Pokémon are what we've got for the last two characters and are likely to see again. Like, let's be real here, if they ended up adding Grovyle, Sceptile, Blaziken, Infernape, Empoleon, Snivy, Decidueye...just about any of the starters really, they'll probably end up really cool. It's just that there's a whole world of other Pokémon to add.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Well if we must pick a good starter, then Samurott would be my choice...Definitely not because Oshawott was my first starter ever...nope.

Honestly the problem isn't the starter Pokémon for the most part, it's the fact that the starter Pokémon are what we've got for the last two characters and are likely to see again. Like, let's be real here, if they ended up adding Grovyle, Sceptile, Blaziken, Infernape, Empoleon, Snivy, Decidueye...Any of the starters really, they'll probably end up really cool. It's just that there's a whole world of other Pokémon to add.

I think the starter concept can stretch itself one more time but only if it isn’t the final evo form. Something like Rowlet would work though, if Arceus starters are on the table.

 

[Gengar84]

I think the starter concept can stretch itself one more time but only if it isn’t the final evo form. Something like Rowlet would work though, if Arceus starters are on the table.

I’ve always been a big fan of Quilava and Typhlosion. They are easily my favorite of the Arceus starters. The problem is we already have two fully evolved Fire starters so I’d be fine with anything from the Decidueye line.

 

[FreeFox]

There was two Wailuigi´s discussions. With the same elements being present in both. My reaction readig through it:

Now, as for the trainer idea. I like it. The best part is that they dont need concept art to work with the pokemon since they were made before so only the trainer would need new art to work with.

 

[Jondolio]

Hisui Trainer with Cybdaquil, Dewott, and Decidueye would be the dream tbh. I'd prefer Decidueye alone but I'm not very picky at this point.

 

[Theguy123]

apparently games with any sorts of gambling in them such as Pokémon red, blue and yellow or sonic forces etc will all be rated 18+ now in the uk

in before sonic is our M rated rep.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

apparently games with any sorts of gambling in them such as Pokémon red, blue and yellow or sonic forces etc will all be rated 18+ now in the uk

in before sonic is our M rated rep.

Wait, what gambling elements did Forces have?

 

[Perkilator]

Wait, what gambling elements did Forces have?

A casino in the jungle.

 

[FreeFox]

apparently games with any sorts of gambling in them such as Pokémon red, blue and yellow or sonic forces etc will all be rated 18+ now in the uk

in before sonic is our M rated rep.

I am not that verse into Sonic games but there is a mature Sonic game?

 

[Theguy123]

I am not that verse into Sonic games but there is a mature Sonic game?

most sonic games have casinos in them. Basically any rereleases of games now that have any sorts of gambling in it will be 18+ in the uk

I believe a few of the jungle Levels in sonic forces have casino elements in them so if forces got a rerelease in the uk it would be 18+ according to the new uk Pegi rules.

 

[chocolatejr9]

apparently games with any sorts of gambling in them such as Pokémon red, blue and yellow or sonic forces etc will all be rated 18+ now in the uk

in before sonic is our M rated rep.

This is why we can't have nice things...

 

[GilTheGreat19]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Have we ever gotten an announcement on an upcoming direct on or around 5pmEST?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Have we ever gotten an announcement on an upcoming direct on or around 5pmEST?

We have, actually. An Animal Crossing New Horizons one last year iirc

 

[GilTheGreat19]

We have, actually. An Animal Crossing New Horizons one last year iirc

Nice.
Guess we’ll see if anything happens then.
If not, that’s fine ofc

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Wait, how or why are we expecting a Nintendo Direct announcement so desperately already that it somehow is possible and/or likely that it gets announced in five hours?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

most sonic games have casinos in them. Basically any rereleases of games now that have any sorts of gambling in it will be 18+ in the uk

I believe a few of the jungle Levels in sonic forces have casino elements in them so if forces got a rerelease in the uk it would be 18+ according to the new uk Pegi rules.

...So flashy environmental design inspired by casinos aren't for good boys and girls even if there's no actual gambling?

That's a bit too far.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Wait, how or why are we expecting a Nintendo Direct announcement so desperately already that it somehow is possible and/or likely that it gets announced in five hours?

I only asked if it could be possible given the tweet I saw.
If Nintendo’s gonna make us wait for some extra based content, then cool

 

[MarioRaccoon]

I have hopes for next week.

My hype will rise when they removed the “new banner” on the smash website.