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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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UltimateCyborgOverlord

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Do we still talk about the Nick Smash clone here? They just announced the next 2 characters, but I didn't want to risk being off-topic...
I'll be clever about it

I really love when weirdo "huh" fighters show up in games

I loved when Piranha Plant showed up in Smash (still love him)

I'm loving this new "Classic 80s April's gonna beat some people up" they're doing in both TMNT Shredder's Revenge and Nicktoons All-Star Brawl.


Now we just gotta have a DBZ/Xenoverse game with playable Bulma. Or for Smash to introduce ANOTHER "huh" fighter as CP 11
 

Trevenant

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In terms of the "a while" thing... It's the last character being added to the biggest smash game, not only in raw sales but general scope, and the last one at that, so them saying "a while" is just obvious. I mean, if it wasn't referenced at all, due to all the reasons that were previously listed, it would have been bizarre but they obviously weren't going to tell us when exactly to tune in. And there really isn't any reason for us to have to wait when literally every character has had a 3 month wait at most up to this point. I've seen people misconstrue that statement a lot and the funny thing is most of those misconstruing it are doing it just because it lines up with the launch of a new game, so I don't think anyone is legitimately reading into this luckily.

Granted, this is the last character for Ultimate, so I don't exactly think they're just going to just put them in a Nintendo direct which would not give the final character the justice they deserve since it's ending the game so I'm honestly expecting something more along the lines of Byleth where they just announce it in a presents which could maybe be announced in a direct, like the final presentation being announced in the direct when cloud was announced for SM4SH, but they aren't going to go full-on wait until anniversary stuff, or anywhere close to that for that matter... That's way too long a wait, like October at the latest.
 

Theguy123

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I'll be clever about it

I really love when weirdo "huh" fighters show up in games

I loved when Piranha Plant showed up in Smash (still love him)

I'm loving this new "Classic 80s April's gonna beat some people up" they're doing in both TMNT Shredder's Revenge and Nicktoons All-Star Brawl.


Now we just gotta have a DBZ/Xenoverse game with playable Bulma. Or for Smash to introduce ANOTHER "huh" fighter as CP 11
I’m assuming you’re referring to piranha plant as a weirdo character. She’s not though. Yes they’re an enemy but they’ve been in every Mario game since their debuts and have enough moveset variety to be unique. I wouldn’t dare call them a who character
 

Shroob

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In terms of the "a while" thing... It's the last character being added to the biggest smash game, not only in raw sales but general scope, and the last one at that, so them saying "a while" is just obvious. I mean, if it wasn't referenced at all, due to all the reasons that were previously listed, it would have been bizarre but they obviously weren't going to tell us when exactly to tune in. And there really isn't any reason for us to have to wait when literally every character has had a 3 month wait at most up to this point. I've seen people misconstrue that statement a lot and the funny thing is most of those misconstruing it are doing it just because it lines up with the launch of a new game, so I don't think anyone is legitimately reading into this luckily.

Granted, this is the last character for Ultimate, so I don't exactly think they're just going to just put them in a Nintendo direct which would not give the final character the justice they deserve since it's ending the game so I'm honestly expecting something more along the lines of Byleth where they just announce it in a presents which could maybe be announced in a direct, like the final presentation being announced in the direct when cloud was announced for SM4SH, but they aren't going to go full-on wait until anniversary stuff, or anywhere close to that for that matter... That's way too long a wait, like October at the latest.
I feel like a "Final Smash Direct" is kinda pointless though, since it's effectively just a "Mr.Sakurai Presents" under a new name.


With the Final Smash Direct for 4, we got 2 new characters, and a look at Corrin, Bayo, and Cloud's movesets and all the stuff that they brought with them. This is basically confirmed to be a solo reveal, and while it'd be neat no doubt, it also feels like it'd be overblown.


Now, I could 100% see it happen, just, I kinda find it silly to do so when it'll effectively just be "Mr.Sakurai Presents, but the last one! So get hype! Maybe!"
 

Rie Sonomura

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I feel like a "Final Smash Direct" is kinda pointless though, since it's effectively just a "Mr.Sakurai Presents" under a new name.


With the Final Smash Direct for 4, we got 2 new characters, and a look at Corrin, Bayo, and Cloud's movesets and all the stuff that they brought with them. This is basically confirmed to be a solo reveal, and while it'd be neat no doubt, it also feels like it'd be overblown.


Now, I could 100% see it happen, just, I kinda find it silly to do so when it'll effectively just be "Mr.Sakurai Presents, but the last one! So get hype! Maybe!"
I think a “Final Ultimate Presentation” could happen if they’re revealing additional non-character non-Mii content that’s nevertheless a big deal

like a few standalone stages, an addition to an existing mode, etc
 

Trevenant

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I feel like a "Final Smash Direct" is kinda pointless though, since it's effectively just a "Mr.Sakurai Presents" under a new name.


With the Final Smash Direct for 4, we got 2 new characters, and a look at Corrin, Bayo, and Cloud's movesets and all the stuff that they brought with them. This is basically confirmed to be a solo reveal, and while it'd be neat no doubt, it also feels like it'd be overblown.


Now, I could 100% see it happen, just, I kinda find it silly to do so when it'll effectively just be "Mr.Sakurai Presents, but the last one! So get hype! Maybe!"
Yeah, of course a direct would imply some large amount of content being incorporated like extra stages etc, which isn't happening (and contrary to what a very small minority also think new characters aren't happening either full stop), I guess a better example would be how more DLC was announced in Terry's direct but they didn't announce anything regarding said DLC other than that it existed. Same thing here, since I imagine they want a higher level of fanfare just due to it being the end of Ultimate, not necessarily in character choice, but emphasis on how big Ultimate has gotten. Maybe it could be something as minor as just showing the character and then just announcing when the showcase will happen in the direct but nevertheless I imagine something like this will happen, instead of just the character reveal.
 
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Theguy123

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It’s gonna be funny if they announce a stand-alone smash presentation to reveal the final character and they put the ??? In the title again and a picture of sakurai posing. Everyone out here is gonna be trying to find the hidden meaning behind the pose.
 

UltimateCyborgOverlord

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I’m assuming you’re referring to piranha plant as a weirdo character. She’s not though. Yes they’re an enemy but they’ve been in every Mario game since their debuts and have enough moveset variety to be unique. I wouldn’t dare call them a who character
Well same with April O'Neill. Piranha Plant and April are kinda the same in that way as a "huh" character in that... they aren't NOBODIES, they are everpresent since day one... you just don't expect to PLAY as them in a fighter, that's all. That's what make them a "huh".
 

Theguy123

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I think we could get a smash direct if I’m honest. A new mode that takes about 10-15 minutes to talk about. Still think we’ll get a timeline split wol mode that takes place between the villains of the dlc and the heroes of the dlc. on top of a bunch of new mii costumes.

I’m talking 10-15 mii costumes, maybe a character update to someone, cloud got a new final smash so maybe someone gets a tweaked moveset or final smash maybe a talk about smash online and the future of bets gonna happen with online, some talk about the future of this smash bros, spirit events going forward, tournament events etc and obviously the reveal of the last character.
 

Shroob

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I think we could get a smash direct if I’m honest. A new mode that takes about 10-15 minutes to talk about. Still think we’ll get a timeline split wol mode that takes place between the villains of the dlc and the heroes of the dlc. on top of a bunch of new mii costumes.

I’m talking 10-15 mii costumes, maybe a character update to someone, cloud got a new final smash so maybe someone gets a tweaked moveset or final smash maybe a talk about smash online and the future of bets gonna happen with online, some talk about the future of this smash bros, spirit events going forward, tournament events etc and obviously the reveal of the last character.
At this point, a 'new mode' feels like an absolute pie in the sky dream, especially since they said they were already done with them, the most we've gotten is like, online tournament ****.
 

Rie Sonomura

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At this point, a 'new mode' feels like an absolute pie in the sky dream, especially since they said they were already done with them, the most we've gotten is like, online tournament ****.
But surely additions to existing modes are still on the table?
 

Baba

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At this point, a 'new mode' feels like an absolute pie in the sky dream, especially since they said they were already done with them, the most we've gotten is like, online tournament ****.
The dream for me is a "complete edition" of the game that comes with all DLC characters and adds a big new exciting mode. Maybe a Subspace 2.
I feel like Ultimate itself won't get any more modes, but I can see a new edition of the game coming with something new to do.
 

Shroob

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But surely additions to existing modes are still on the table?
I mean, what exactly needs to be expanded on? All Star Mode? That dream's dead and buried for a "True" All-Star mode.


Considering they just go "Here's your DLC character" in regards to WoL, I have a 0% belief that they'll do anything with WoL, nor would they need to. Like, what exactly can they 'do'? "Add all the DLC characters in?" I mean, between them already giving them to you, and the DLC characters being paid-for DLC, they really can't. Imagine someone who doesn't have all the DLC trying to play this theorized expansion, and entire parts are locked off because they don't have the DLC.
 

Theguy123

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At this point, a 'new mode' feels like an absolute pie in the sky dream, especially since they said they were already done with them, the most we've gotten is like, online tournament ****.
true but if we don’t get a new mode then it leaves me puzzled on what the bonus content that was discovered was. It wouldn’t be able to be a fighter because sakurai said fp11 is the last one. I doubt it’s a standalone stage and I really doubt it’s a standalone special mii costume.

only logical thing I can think about is it being a bonus new mode of a WOL continuation of some sort that involves all the dlc.
 

Shroob

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true but if we don’t get a new mode then it leaves me puzzled on what the bonus content that was discovered was. It wouldn’t be able to be a fighter because sakurai said fp11 is the last one. I doubt it’s a standalone stage and I really doubt it’s a standalone special mii costume.

only logical thing I can think about is it being a bonus new mode of a WOL continuation of some sort that involves all the dlc.
The New Zealand one?


Most likely just a clerical error.



Besides, if it was a new mode, they wouldn't sell it to us, it'd be a free update, meaning that it wouldn't even need to be on the E-Shop in the first place.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Yo what if we get post release Assist Trophies and/or Pokeballs tho, for the first time ever 🤔
If this were to happen, it likely wouldn't include any 3rd party items since Nintendo would have to pay for those, which in turn would mean that we would have to buy them, and I don't think they would randomly sell items at the end. 1st party items I'd say are fair game though (albeit still extremely unlikely).

Were they to happen, what items, Assist Trophies, or Pokéball summons do you think they'd add/would like to see added, and what would they do?
 

Shroob

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I mean, if there was a time to unveil a proper All Star Mode, it would be at the final fighter wouldn’t it?

Proper timing and all that.
As much as I'd love a traditional All-Star mode, I'm fairly certain that their logic is that said mode just isn't feasible with the sheer number of characters anymore.


They already had to adjust it in Smash 4 due to how much larger the cast was compared to Melee and Brawl, Ultimate would require severe adjustments, and it'd be long as hell.
 

blackghost

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I see people talk about how much they liked subspace in brawl and honestly can't relate. Thought It was tedious and just an average platformer with really really annoying enemies.
It doesn't do it for me becuase it's a mode that has to work for a character like Ganon and a character like puff. Limits it a lot.
World of light is pretty on point combines events, pve, and customization into a mode that has lots of ways to play.
If smash got another mode I'd hope it's smash run not subspace 2.
 
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Þe 1 → Way

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As much as I'd love a traditional All-Star mode, I'm fairly certain that their logic is that said mode just isn't feasible with the sheer number of characters anymore.


They already had to adjust it in Smash 4 due to how much larger the cast was compared to Melee and Brawl, Ultimate would require severe adjustments, and it'd be long as hell.
Thats fair logic, but I still love it. A giant endurance mode to really be a big challenge.

I’d make it my goal to do it with the whole roster.


...aren't you a Nahobino guy?
To be fair SMTV has been being developed since like 2017.
 
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Guynamednelson

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As much as I'd love a traditional All-Star mode, I'm fairly certain that their logic is that said mode just isn't feasible with the sheer number of characters anymore.


They already had to adjust it in Smash 4 due to how much larger the cast was compared to Melee and Brawl, Ultimate would require severe adjustments, and it'd be long as hell.
Thats fair logic, but I still love it. A giant endurance mode to really be a big challenge.

I’d make it my goal to do it with the whole roster.



To be fair SMTV has been being developing since like 2017.
I think one way to do it would be to have the amount of Smash games represented depend on the difficulty you selected.

Very Easy only has the 64 cast, Very Hard goes up to Ultimate base, and an Extreme difficulty unlocked for purchasing FP1 and 2 features their characters as well.
 

Dinoman96

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I just wish the Fighters Pass packs that came with new universes also included new assist trophies. It's just the shame the likes of Persona, Dragon Quest (probably wouldn't get an AT at all either way considering Final Fantasy lol), Banjo-Kazooie, Fatal Fury, Minecraft and Tekken are gonna have to wait like six years to have a shot at getting an AT...if they even manage to come back that is.

Min Min's lucky because they already made Spring Man one in the base game.
 
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Theguy123

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Does anyone ever think about alternate smash timelines. Kinda like marvels what “if’s” episodes except you don’t replace the characters with others. You kinda just change scenarios.

like for me I always wonder what if sephiroth miscalculated how strong his sword was and failed to slice through Galeem

or what if the grinch leak was real

or what if hero tripped off his horse as he makes the jump to save link

or what if Isabelle didn’t get the letter through the invite etc.

what other cool “what if” moments are there to do with smash which would change the timeline
 
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7NATOR

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I will say, I could at least see a separate Boss Rush mode. There's bosses already in the game, and they gave Sephiroth his own Boss Rush, and also deliberately made the Boss Spirits unfightable through Spirit Rematch

They have to know there's demand for it
 

Shroob

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I will say, I could at least see a separate Boss Rush mode. There's bosses already in the game, and they gave Sephiroth his own Boss Rush, and also deliberately made the Boss Spirits unfightable through Spirit Rematch

They have to know there's demand for it
On the flipside though, one could argue that's exactly why they made Sephiroth's mode the way it is.
 

ryuryunonoroi

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Took a bit of a breather for a while to care of IRL business and come back only to learn that the circus came to town and I missed out on the fun. There was crazy mental gymnastics from a guy that was trying to defend his idea that hardly anyone thought Sephiroth in Smash was no big deal. You had a clown getting everyone else riled up by claiming Ultimate was a hackjob and saying he was "merely pretending". And there was purple EVERYWHERE!

Anyway, it was neat to hear Sakurai talk about different things in interviews with Harada. His thoughts on ghosts and what it actually means to be alive were pretty interesting, considering his views on that subject parallel my own very closely. Also how he likes to drive a lot. Funny the way Harada spotted for him on that one subject. A man of fresh taste, I see.

Looking forward to the final segment. Pretty confident now he's going to expand on that one subject he's briefly mentioned. Twitter and ResetError may have a nuclear meltdown, but this ain't Sakurai's first rodeo.

I look forward to it. No telling what will happen at this point, so might as well kick back and wait and see.

BTW, who’s your favorite character? I absolutely adore Hibari.
It's actually a pretty tough call for me given how many of them have excellent qualities. But I'd say Katsuragi and Yomi slightly edge the others out. Even if it's only because of their bluntness and not beating around the bush, which is a character trait I place I high appraisal on.
And yeah, Hibari is pretty great too. Especially considering how her development is centered around the idea that you can be powerful without necessarily being strong.

The distinction of Sakurai's feelings about himself and memes is a bit nuanced.

He also expressed that he has a clear sense of humor and is self-aware about his recognition online, with his comment about how the X-Files theme should play for him in certain situations. That's the kind of joke someone on the internet would make, but he made it himself. Sakurai's always been very self-aware like that, but the nuance here is that he doesn't like when memes give the wrong impression of him or his attitudes.

The "never ask me for anything again" meme conveys that Sakurai has a distaste for the Smash audience, or that he doesn't like fulfilling their requests, which is far from the truth. Ultimate is all about fulfilling Smash players' wants and hopes, which Sakurai takes pride in. The meme there misconstrues his attitude like he's exhausted or that he hates how people make requests for Smash and he'd rather not listen to them. It just spreads misinformation, if unintentionally.

There are millions of people who have the wrong impression of Sakurai because they only know him from the Directs/broadcasts and the memes that accompany them. Very few people actually read or watch interviews with him to go beyond that and understand his whole perspective and approach.
Indeed. Most people lack the depth of thought to really put themselves inside the thought process of another individual. They're too quick to run away with their own interpretations of someone else's words and end up glossing over important details and thus miss the bigger picture. It would serve them well to do a little less talking and a little more listening.

Maybe. I feel like Phantasy Star is one of those actual dark horse candidates when it comes to Smash. For one, it's finally starting to get back attention in the West after like, 8-9 years. So it's not entirely unknown. Two, the original Phantasy Star was an important and influential game, for both RPGs and Sega.
  • For RPGs, it was one of the first RPGs to have actual named main characters or Pre-determined characters rather than a character you gave a name to and sometimes could customize, one of the first ones to have a female lead, one of the first RPGs to use a science fiction setting compared to Tolkien fantasy, basically, it broke alot of molds that were created with Dragon Quest and Legend of Zelda.
  • For Sega, it was the game that gave rise to the legends Yuji Naka and Naoto Ohshima who would make Sonic the Hedgehog, as well as Nights and Burning Rangers. Yuji Naka would also make Phantasy Star II alongside legendary Sega artist and producer Rieko Kodama, who would direct Phantasy Star IV, both of which were critically acclaimed games, and Kodama would go on to produce Skies of Arcadia, which was also critically acclaimed. And Yuji Naka would also be responsible for Phantasy Star Online, which would be the inspiration and influence for Namco's .hack series and Capcom's Monster Hunter, and it was also credited for being the influence for alot of multiplayer dungeon crawlers that would flood in Japan after it's release.
    Without Phantasy Star and it's success, it is quite possible that alot of these games, especially Sonic the Hedgehog, may never have happened.
And last but not least, Phantasy Star II's Story Submission campaign was what inspired Sakurai to become a video game developer, as @Captain Shwampy re-posted a while ago.

So basically, despite not getting alot of attention for Smash speculation, Phantasy Star has actually had a real impact on gaming and developers, including Sakurai. To me, this series would make a lot of sense as a "Terry" pick, where it's not one that gets alot of attention speculation-wise and is overshadowed by alot of more popular picks like Kingdom Hearts, Devil May Cry, etc. But it could be picked because of it's important influence to the gaming industry and the developers it inspired, like how Fatal Fury inspired Sakurai and was an important influence for Smash Bros.

I honestly don't believe that Phantasy Star is a lock. But I do think it has a reasonable chance. Will it bring the last fighter? Who knows? We have to wait and find out.
Now this is a nice theory right here. I wasn't aware of Phantasy Star having such a big impact on Sakurai and this is a neat thing to learn. It's certainly more solid and grounded in reality than most of the brain farts TheGuy123 toots out.

I thought M-theory was debunked because of a Gamefaqs thread somewhere but also don’t quote me on that because I don’t even know what M-theory is since that‘s a thing you Americans can figure out for yourselves
No, TheGuy123 only said it was DEBOOOOONKED because of one post in one GameFAQs thread that mentioned the UK Smash website took down all the logos for all the DLC characters, which is a flaky connection by itself.

I don't know why everyone keeps entertaining his incoherent ramblings. Dude latches onto just about any hypothesis he finds and will discard them just as quickly. Seems more like he's just using this topic as a way to get attention and fish for compliments hoping someone will tell him how smart he thinks he is.

I think the unfortunate truth is that K. Rool, Ridley and Banjo & Kazooie were all by far the biggest and most popular characters of the "core Smash community bubble" and the other ones like Isaac, Geno, Krystal, Dixie, Lyn, etc weren't popular enough to really turn Nintendo's and Sakurai's heads.

The only possible exception to this is Waluigi, who Nintendo isn't really super crazy about in general.
I read that link. Big if true. This would certainly explain why the quality of the newer Paper Mario games has fallen off a cliff. At least we have Bug Fables to help fill that void.
 

Idon

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What if Steve got into FP1 instead of Banjo?



(this is really depressing to look at)
"The mod team has decided to permanently lock the Banjo and Kazooie thread until further notice for flagrant refusal to follow the rules and repeated offenses against other fanbases, especially Minecraft."
 

Theguy123

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Took a bit of a breather for a while to care of IRL business and come back only to learn that the circus came to town and I missed out on the fun. There was crazy mental gymnastics from a guy that was trying to defend his idea that hardly anyone thought Sephiroth in Smash was no big deal. You had a clown getting everyone else riled up by claiming Ultimate was a hackjob and saying he was "merely pretending". And there was purple EVERYWHERE!

Anyway, it was neat to hear Sakurai talk about different things in interviews with Harada. His thoughts on ghosts and what it actually means to be alive were pretty interesting, considering his views on that subject parallel my own very closely. Also how he likes to drive a lot. Funny the way Harada spotted for him on that one subject. A man of fresh taste, I see.

Looking forward to the final segment. Pretty confident now he's going to expand on that one subject he's briefly mentioned. Twitter and ResetError may have a nuclear meltdown, but this ain't Sakurai's first rodeo.


It's actually a pretty tough call for me given how many of them have excellent qualities. But I'd say Katsuragi and Yomi slightly edge the others out. Even if it's only because of their bluntness and not beating around the bush, which is a character trait I place I high appraisal on.
And yeah, Hibari is pretty great too. Especially considering how her development is centered around the idea that you can be powerful without necessarily being strong.



Indeed. Most people lack the depth of thought to really put themselves inside the thought process of another individual. They're too quick to run away with their own interpretations of someone else's words and end up glossing over important details and thus miss the bigger picture. It would serve them well to do a little less talking and a little more listening.



Now this is a nice theory right here. I wasn't aware of Phantasy Star having such a big impact on Sakurai and this is a neat thing to learn. It's certainly more solid and grounded in reality than most of the brain farts TheGuy123 toots out.



No, TheGuy123 only said it was DEBOOOOONKED because of one post in one GameFAQs thread that mentioned the UK Smash website took down all the logos for all the DLC characters, which is a flaky connection by itself.

I don't know why everyone keeps entertaining his incoherent ramblings. Dude latches onto just about any hypothesis he finds and will discard them just as quickly. Seems more like he's just using this topic as a way to get attention and fish for compliments hoping someone will tell him how smart he thinks he is.
it’s called having fun with speculation. I’m just speculating because it’s what I love to do. Maybe actually lighten up and not get offended by it. I don’t state my theories or anything as facts and I don’t go around telling anyone else’s they’re wrong. I’m a fun person, I like listening to people’s theories and speculation. It’s one of the many things that make this game fun ya know. You need to lighten up.

also with M theory my “personal” opinion on it is that it’s debunked. I have to put emphasis on personal Here because for some reason you don’t understand the meaning of an opinion. It’s nothing more than just my opion.

I don’t go round stating it’s a fact. I don’t know what I’ve done to harm you. Feel like the jab at me is a bit unfair since I’m only speculating a lot of the time because it’s fun. I’m not doing it for likes or quotes etc, I’m just having fun. Please don’t be offended by it.
 
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WeirdChillFever

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No, TheGuy123 only said it was DEBOOOOONKED because of one post in one GameFAQs thread that mentioned the UK Smash website took down all the logos for all the DLC characters, which is a flaky connection by itself.

I don't know why everyone keeps entertaining his incoherent ramblings. Dude latches onto just about any hypothesis he finds and will discard them just as quickly. Seems more like he's just using this topic as a way to get attention and fish for compliments hoping someone will tell him how smart he thinks he is.
Alright, thank you for clearing that up in what I can only assume to be your trademark chipper disposition
 

Dinoman96

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What if Nintendo had gone third party instead of SEGA in 2001, thus making Smash Bros. a third party multi-platform game?

Get ready for Super Smash Bros. for Playstation 4, featuring Ratchet & Clank as console exclusive characters. Alternatively get Smash Bros. for Xbox One to play as Banjo & Kazooie.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
So...One thing I've noticed about Guilty Gear is that a lot of attacks that use weapons are still not really all that disjointed. Disjoints do exist (probably a lot more than I'm aware), but a lot of characters can be hit in the weapon, which doesn't happen in Super Smash Bros.

I wonder if any of the Guilty Gear cast would have attack properties like that in Super Smash Bros. Redonculous disjoints are super common in the series, so I guess probably not (though...maybe it could be used as a way to balance the character if they were rushdown and had large hitboxes across the board), but in the case that it doesn't, I wonder if Sakurai would make a comment about it like how he said that the Street Fighter devs were wondering if it was OK for Ryu to have 1 button Special Moves.
 
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