Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Jondolio]

I think the disparity between Smashboards and Smash Twitter's tastes in characters speaks volumes in regards to why Nintendo chose the DLC characters they did.
From what I've seen, most of them were far more interested in big third-party characters that, if suggested here just a few years ago, would likely not have sat well with a lot of the more hardcore Nintendo fans here. Meanwhile, most of the more hardcore Nintendo fans on Smash Twitter seemed to want newer characters like Rex and dismissed most of the old favorites here as just that, old.
The truth is that Smashboards is, at the end of the day, a vocal minority. One that's way past the age range of the actual primary demographic Nintendo is aiming at. It'd be absurd to only pick the characters we suggest.

No, people would leak cutscenes and that's why we don't get story mode way back in Smash 4.

I thought we all collectively agreed that this is Sakurai's way of saying "it would take too much budget and dev time to make a story mode"

 

[N3ON]

This has renewed my hopes for more content, but more out of a weird sort of desperation for Ultimate to be what it was supposed to be: the penultimate, clearly best Smash game, with tons of content and so many dream characters making it in.

Oh **** we're on to bargaining already. Missed that on the first read. Well alright.

I definitely understand wanting more picks that appeal to the 'hardcore' crowd, but can you really fault Nintendo for trying to rope in a wider, fresh audience, instead of a small vocal minority that have stuck with the game for 15 years? I can't.

No... but it's a little unfortunate that Nintendo doesn't pick characters that can do both more often. Not that the characters have been requested for fifteen years, but, for instance, you could've taken that last wave of Mii costumes, made them playable (with maybe Doom Slayer instead of Dovahkiin) and had characters that both reached outwards yet had been desired pretty loudly within the fanbase as well.

The third-parties they've chosen, not uniformly, but by and large, don't seem to hit the same overlap. And I'm not calling them bad characters. It's just that it's not impossible to actively cater more evenly. It would be nice.

 

[Shroob]

Oh **** we're on to bargaining already. Missed that on the first read. Well alright.


No... but it's a little unfortunate that Nintendo doesn't pick characters that can do both more often. Not that the characters have been requested for fifteen years, but, for instance, you could've taken that last wave of Mii costumes, made them playable (with maybe Doom Slayer instead of Dovahkiin) and had characters that both reached outwards yet had been desired pretty loudly within the fanbase as well.

The third-parties they've chosen, not uniformly, but by and large, don't seem to hit the same overlap. And I'm not calling them bad characters. It's just that it's not impossible to actively cater more evenly. It would be nice.

Oh, it would be nice, no doubt about that.

And like, losing Dante hurt like hell in the last wave, but, it is what it is, ya know.



I'd love to eventually learn one day specifically why Nintendo chose the exact 3rd party characters that they did, since the 1st party ones are pretty obvious as to why, but until that day, all we can really just assume is 'business, I guess?'.

 

[Theguy123]

No, people would leak cutscenes and that's why we don't get story mode way back in Smash 4.

but how could subspace emissary get leaked. It’s already been made a decade ago. You’d just be porting the original to ultimate

 

[N3ON]

No, people would leak cutscenes and that's why we don't get story mode way back in Smash 4.

I think the main reason we don't get story mode akin to SSE is because it was an immense undertaking for the development team (Sakurai described it as basically developing a whole other game) and it didn't really pay off in terms of reception, or probably, playtime. Past Sakurai and his obliviousness that cutscenes would, shockingly, make their way to the internet, I doubt Nintendo is eager to sink that kind of monetary investment into a mode that's ultimately seen as ancillary. WoL, for as long as it takes to play through, is exponentially simpler to develop.

It is smart that they repurposed what they saw as a negative, being the cutscenes spreading online, and spun it hugely in their favour, by basically turning the cutscenes into trailers made specifically to be shown online.

But I mean, c'mon - how do you not anticipate the cutscenes being circulated. They put up a few themselves for promotional purposes. And I'll say it; frankly, they were the best part of the SSE.

 

[Shroob]

I think the main reason we don't get story mode akin to SSE is because it was an immense undertaking for the development team (Sakurai described it as basically developing a whole other game) and it didn't really pay off in terms of reception, or probably, playtime. Past Sakurai and his obliviousness that cutscenes would, shockingly, make their way to the internet, I doubt Nintendo is eager to sink that kind of monetary investment into a mode that's ultimately seen as ancillary. WoL, for as long as it takes to play through, is exponentially simpler to develop.

It is smart that they repurposed what they saw as a negative, being the cutscenes spreading online, and spun it hugely in their favour, by basically turning the cutscenes into trailers made specifically to be shown online.

But I mean, c'mon - how do you not anticipate the cutscenes being circulated. They put up a few themselves for promotional purposes. And I'll say it; frankly, they were the best part of the SSE.

To be 100% fair, early 2000's internet was a different beast than it is today.


....and honestly, considering Nintendo being Nintendo, I could legit see a scenario where they really didn't understand how the Internet would impact their games. Nintendo has always felt very behind in terms of the curve, and a scenario where they just, don't account for the Internet of all things, as implausible as it sounds, honestly wouldn't surprise me, if only because of them being who they are.

 

[N3ON]

To be 100% fair, early 2000's internet was a different beast than it is today.


....and honestly, considering Nintendo being Nintendo, I could legit see a scenario where they really didn't understand how the Internet would impact their games. Nintendo has always felt very behind in terms of the curve, and a scenario where they just, don't account for the Internet of all things, as implausible as it sounds, honestly wouldn't surprise me, if only because of them being who they are.

I mean, it's not dial-up in 2001, it's Youtube in 2008. Gaming footage was definitely on there at that point - usually accompanied by nu metal being played over it. Old Man Nintendo still doesn't understand a lot about the kids they sell games to, but that much wouldn't take a whole lot of market research.

 

[Shroob]

I mean, it's not dial-up in 2001, it's Youtube in 2008. Gaming footage was definitely on there at that point - usually accompanied by nu metal being played over it. Old Man Nintendo still doesn't understand a lot about the kids they sell games to, but that much wouldn't take a whole lot of market research.

You'd think that, but if Sakurai's being truthful in his statement that the cutscenes being shared online played some part, well, they must not have done said research.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Okay, forum game time. If you were tasked to make a Spirit Board event for one of the previously released DLC Mii costumes, what would you make it look like?

DMC spirit event would have Dante, Nelo Angelo, Griffon and Mundus (As the costume is based on DMC1). When Nelo Angelo is at max level, it can be enhanced into Vergil.

 

[Gengar84]

I see we’re talking about ultimates modes and content. WOL is cool and all but I wish sakurai just copy and pasted subspace emissary into ultimate instead. No graphic upgrades, no changes. Just classic fashioned subspace emissary.

other than that I’d say the game is quite solid. Subspace emissary being able to be played on the go in handheld would offer soo much replay ability.

Yeah, I actually really loved SSE and think it was the best single player and co-op mode Smash has ever had. I admit it was far from perfect but I still found it really enjoyable to play through with my brother. Without it, Smash has felt like it was lacking something ever since. Neither Smash Tour nor World of Light really impressed me that much.

 

[3BitSaurus]

No, people would leak cutscenes and that's why we don't get story mode way back in Smash 4.

Still think that was a really lame decision. I could get reducing the amount of cutscenes because of dev time, but the overall functionalities are still very much present in Smash Run (which is another mode I wish would return).

WoL just feels needlessly bloated in comparison. And it does't really offer the same experience. SSE was more than just a bunch of cutscenes you could watch.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

As someone whose dominant memory of SSE was being underwhelmed by the platforming and wondering why I wasn’t fighting various Nintendo enemies from across the board, I can’t say I miss it that much.

Sakurai being displeased about the cutscenes being leaked doesn’t surprise me because as harsh as this may sound, to me about 80% of the mode’s value were in watching them; with some of the boss battles making up largely the rest.

 

[Dinoman96]

Sakurai had pretty much already admitted that they didn't have the resources to make another SSE styled mode with unique enemy character models and sidescrolling stages this time around.

Masahiro Sakurai Talks Piranha Plant, Spirits, And 20 Years Of Super Smash Bros.

We talk with the co-creator and director of the Super Smash Bros. series about the process of creating the ambitious crossover franchise.

www.gameinformer.com

Ultimately, at the end of the day, Smash Ultimate is a game where they decided to pretty much sacrifice everything else in the game for the sake of having the biggest character/stage roster possible. Whether that's a good or bad thing depends on what interests you the most in Smash (game modes or characters).

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

As silly as it is calling a game with 3 years dev time that constantly repurposes assests “rushed.”

I do feel Launch Ultimate is lacking in a few regards. Those being modes and wholly original content not from previous games.

Classic Mode is generally considered to be the best in the series, whilst All Star is debatably not even the same mode anymore.

WoL is pretty controversial. Some love it, others not so much. Putting a big spotlight on a campaign designed to be easy to make is definitely the best case to be made for Ultimate being a “rushed” product.

So the modes are a very mixed bag to some, which is a shame
Edit: Somehow this paragraph of the post got deleted, I don’t remember what I wrote here aside from it being really long. Feels bad.

As well, while the overall roster was great and the newcomers glorious, there wasn’t that much you could say wasn’t there before. Same thing with stages.

Obviously, both the Modes issue and Content issue were solved with DLC. With us getting 11 (soon to be 12) fighters from across the gaming landscape to sort out the newcomers, and getting the Return of Home Run Contest and Stage Builder for modes.

This is why calling the DLC a waste is something I find laughable. Since they’ve fixed/alleviated many issues once had with the game.

I also doubt Nintendo strong armed Sakurai into Ultimate releasing too early. Some ideas fall through the cracks during game development, thats just how it is. A couple modes missing release periods is normal.

Ultimate isn’t rushed, rather Sakurai is so ambitious that sometimes his ideas don’t fit the scopes of the projects he makes. Sometimes it can be solved with more dev time, other times it’ll require an entirely different project plan. Fact is, Ultimate was being developed for 3 years and essentially all of its big plans were finished. Theres no sense in delaying it, which is why they didn’t.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Feel free to critique this if you want

Spoiler: Little Mac changes

[*]Walk speed: 1.386 -> 1.5
[*]Fall speed: 1.95 -> 1.7
[*]Fast fall speed: 3.12 -> 2.72
[*]Dash attack is now the Dempsey Roll
[*]Armour is removed from all his attacks
[*]Forward tilt hit 1 active frames changed from 4-5 -> 3-4
[*]Forward tilt hit 2 active frames changed from 12-13 -> 11-12
[*]Forward tilt damage is from 4 -> 3 (first hit), 8 -> 6 (second hit)
[*]Foward tilt first actionable frame (FAF) is changed from 38 -> 33
[*]Up tilt active frames from 4-10 -> 3-9, FAF 30 -> 28
[*]Up tilt damage is from 6.5 -> 4
[*]Down tilt FAF is from 26 -> 22
[*]Down tilt damage is from 8 -> 6
[*]Forward Smash active frames: 14-15 -> 11-12
[*]Forward Smash angled up active frames: 14-15 -> 11-12
[*]Forward Smash angled down active frames: 15 -> 12
[*]Forward Smash FAF (normal, angled up and angled down): 44 -> 38
[*]Forward Smash (angled up and normal) damage: 20 -> 15 (sweetspot), 18 -13 -> (sourspot)
[*]Forward Smash angled down damage: 24 -> 19
[*]Up Smash is now the Star Punch from his games, a rising uppercut. Think of Dudley from Street Fighter 3's Jet Upper since that is how it will look like in this game. Active frames are 5-17, it has a sweetspot at the apex of this move and its FAF is 55 since Little Mac falls down quickly after sing this move. Sweetspot damage is 20 and the damage for the rest of the move is 16. Base knockback and knockback growth for this move is 35 and 100 respectively
[*]Down Smash active frames: 10-11, 17-18 -> 7-8, 14-15
[*]Down Smash both hits damage: 13 -> 10
[*]Down Smash FAF: 43 -> 37
[*]Neutral aerial damage: 2 -> 7
[*]Forward aerial damage: 5 (hitbox 1), 4 (hitbox 2), 4 (hitbox 3) -> 10 (hitbox 1), 9 (hitbox 2), 9 (hitbox 3)
[*]Back aerial damage: 6 (hitbox 1), 4 (hitbox 2), 4 (hitbox 3) -> 11 (hitbox 1), 9 (hitbox 2), 9 (hitbox 3)
[*]Up aerial damage: 5 (hitbox 1), 4 (hitbox 2), 4 (hitbox 3) -> 10 (hitbox 1), 9 (hitbox 2), 9 (hitbox 3)
[*]Down aerial damage: 5 (hitbox 1), 4 (hitbox 2), 4 (hitbox 3) -> 10 (hitbox 1), 9 (hitbox 2), 9 (hitbox 3)
[*]Down aerial base knockback: 0 -> 25
[*]Grab range: 12.9u -> 13.9u
[*]Grab hitbox position changed so it covers Little Mac's entire arm for both standing grab and dash grab
[*]Neutral B can now be stored similar to a projectile. Maximum damage reduced to 18 for all versions.
[*]Down B can now also reflect. Yes, that means you can punch a projectile away. It multiplies damage by 1.7
[*]Special types of dodges are introduced: ducking and quick shuffling of feet. Ducking has projectile intangibility whereas shuffling has physical intangibility. These dodges never goes stale but FAF is 60. Intangibility frames for these are 1-9. These types of dodges have a pseudo-counter property where if Little Mac is hit with a specific type of attack for these dodges during their intangibility frames, he can do an invincible dash forwards or backwards.
Press down-back to do a shuffle and down-forward to do a duck.
[*]KO Punch now takes 40% damage given to gain it and you can keep on using it. KO Punch can no longer be used in the air, instead Straight Lunge is always used in the air. You lose it if you get 40 units of knockback and you can never gain KO Punch via damage received.
[*]KO Punch damage: 35 -> 15. It no longer ignores shield, but in exchange, it does 80% shield damage
[*]KO Punch FAF: 77 -> 40
[*]KO Punch knockback growth: 100 -> 160
[*]Star Punch system is implemented where if you hit an opponent during the start up or end lag of them performing a move, you get a Star. You also get a Star if you correctly use one of your special dodges. Star Punch version of Forward, Up and Down Smash damage is multiplied by 1.4 and Star version of Up Smash has complete intangibility. You perform a Star Punch Smash attack by default if you have a Star and you can gain a total of 3 stars at a time. If you are hit with a move that has knockback, you lose all your stars regardless of how many you have

I think the disparity between Smashboards and Smash Twitter's tastes in characters speaks volumes in regards to why Nintendo chose the DLC characters they did.
From what I've seen, most of them were far more interested in big third-party characters that, if suggested here just a few years ago, would likely not have sat well with a lot of the more hardcore Nintendo fans here. Meanwhile, most of the more hardcore Nintendo fans on Smash Twitter seemed to want newer characters like Rex and dismissed most of the old favorites here as just that, old.
The truth is that Smashboards is, at the end of the day, a vocal minority. One that's way past the age range of the actual primary demographic Nintendo is aiming at. It'd be absurd to only pick the characters we suggest.

Let's be real though, both here and the vocal Smash fans on twitter are a vocal minority. Even if a character like BanDee got in and got complaints from vocal people on Smash twitter, he'd still get more love than hate by virtue of the fact the dislike to like ratio on his hypothetical Youtube trailer wouldn't come close to being as bad as Byleth, which would in this case show that the silent majority don't mind him.

 

[Jondolio]

Let's be real though, both here and the vocal Smash fans on twitter are a vocal minority. Even if a character like BanDee got in and got complaints from vocal people on Smash twitter, he'd still get more love than hate by virtue of the fact the dislike to like ratio on his hypothetical Youtube trailer wouldn't come close to being as bad as Byleth, which would in this case show that the silent majority don't mind him.

This is also true, but it's important to consider that Twitter is a bigger platform than Smashboards. It has way more users, and with that comes a way bigger variety of tastes. It also helps that Nintendo has actual presence there, so all in all I think Smash Twitter is much more likely to be heard.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Feel free to critique this if you want

Spoiler: Little Mac changes

[*]Walk speed: 1.386 -> 1.5
[*]Fall speed: 1.95 -> 1.7
[*]Fast fall speed: 3.12 -> 2.72
[*]Dash attack is now the Dempsey Roll
[*]Armour is removed from all his attacks
[*]Forward tilt hit 1 active frames changed from 4-5 -> 3-4
[*]Forward tilt hit 2 active frames changed from 12-13 -> 11-12
[*]Forward tilt damage is from 4 -> 3 (first hit), 8 -> 6 (second hit)
[*]Foward tilt first actionable frame (FAF) is changed from 38 -> 33
[*]Up tilt active frames from 4-10 -> 3-9, FAF 30 -> 28
[*]Up tilt damage is from 6.5 -> 4
[*]Down tilt FAF is from 26 -> 22
[*]Down tilt damage is from 8 -> 6
[*]Forward Smash active frames: 14-15 -> 11-12
[*]Forward Smash angled up active frames: 14-15 -> 11-12
[*]Forward Smash angled down active frames: 15 -> 12
[*]Forward Smash FAF (normal, angled up and angled down): 44 -> 38
[*]Forward Smash (angled up and normal) damage: 20 -> 15 (sweetspot), 18 -13 -> (sourspot)
[*]Forward Smash angled down damage: 24 -> 19
[*]Up Smash is now the Star Punch from his games, a rising uppercut. Think of Dudley from Street Fighter 3's Jet Upper since that is how it will look like in this game. Active frames are 5-17, it has a sweetspot at the apex of this move and its FAF is 55 since Little Mac falls down quickly after sing this move. Sweetspot damage is 20 and the damage for the rest of the move is 16. Base knockback and knockback growth for this move is 35 and 100 respectively
[*]Down Smash active frames: 10-11, 17-18 -> 7-8, 14-15
[*]Down Smash both hits damage: 13 -> 10
[*]Down Smash FAF: 43 -> 37
[*]Neutral aerial damage: 2 -> 7
[*]Forward aerial damage: 5 (hitbox 1), 4 (hitbox 2), 4 (hitbox 3) -> 10 (hitbox 1), 9 (hitbox 2), 9 (hitbox 3)
[*]Back aerial damage: 6 (hitbox 1), 4 (hitbox 2), 4 (hitbox 3) -> 11 (hitbox 1), 9 (hitbox 2), 9 (hitbox 3)
[*]Up aerial damage: 5 (hitbox 1), 4 (hitbox 2), 4 (hitbox 3) -> 10 (hitbox 1), 9 (hitbox 2), 9 (hitbox 3)
[*]Down aerial damage: 5 (hitbox 1), 4 (hitbox 2), 4 (hitbox 3) -> 10 (hitbox 1), 9 (hitbox 2), 9 (hitbox 3)
[*]Down aerial base knockback: 0 -> 25
[*]Grab range: 12.9u -> 13.9u
[*]Grab hitbox position changed so it covers Little Mac's entire arm for both standing grab and dash grab
[*]Neutral B can now be stored similar to a projectile. Maximum damage reduced to 18 for all versions.
[*]Down B can now also reflect. Yes, that means you can punch a projectile away. It multiplies damage by 1.7
[*]Special types of dodges are introduced: ducking and quick shuffling of feet. Ducking has projectile intangibility whereas shuffling has physical intangibility. These dodges never goes stale but FAF is 60. Intangibility frames for these are 1-9. These types of dodges have a pseudo-counter property where if Little Mac is hit with a specific type of attack for these dodges during their intangibility frames, he can do an invincible dash forwards or backwards.
[*]KO Punch now takes 40% damage given to gain it and you can keep on using it. KO Punch can no longer be used in the air, instead Straight Lunge is always used in the air. You lose it if you get 40 units of knockback and you can never gain KO Punch via damage received.
[*]KO Punch damage: 35 -> 15. It no longer ignores shield, but in exchange, it does 80% shield damage
[*]KO Punch FAF: 77 -> 40
[*]KO Punch knockback growth: 100 -> 160
[*]Star Punch system is implemented where if you hit an opponent during the start up or end lag of them performing a move, you get a Star. You also get a Star if you correctly use one of your special dodges. Star Punch version of Forward, Up and Down Smash damage is multiplied by 1.4 and Star version of Up Smash has complete intangibility. You perform a Star Punch Smash attack by default if you have a Star and you can gain a total of 3 stars at a time. If you are hit with a move that has knockback, you lose all your stars regardless of how many you have

So basically turn Little Mac into SNES Super Punch-Out!! Little Mac. Got it.

Let's be real though, both here and the vocal Smash fans on twitter are a vocal minority. Even if a character like BanDee got in and got complaints from vocal people on Smash twitter, he'd still get more love than hate by virtue of the fact the dislike to like ratio on his hypothetical Youtube trailer wouldn't come close to being as bad as Byleth, which would in this case show that the silent majority don't mind him.

You've got a point there, man.

 

[3BitSaurus]

As someone whose dominant memory of SSE was being underwhelmed by the platforming and wondering why I wasn’t fighting various Nintendo enemies from across the board, I can’t say I miss it that much.

Sakurai being displeased about the cutscenes being leaked doesn’t surprise me because as harsh as this may sound, to me about 80% of the mode’s value were in watching them; with some of the boss battles making up largely the rest.

Gonna respectfully disagree here. The platforming isn't meant to be the focus here, especially because you're dealing with a lot of characters with completely different properties. The combat is the focus: SSE is less of a platformer and more of a beat'em up in that regard.

That's not to say it's not without its faults, but overall I've derived a lot more value from my last playthrough of SSE a few weeks ago than I ever did from WoL. It's true that cutscenes and bosses were a novely for this mode, but I'd hardly say they make up all of its value.

Sakurai had pretty much already admitted that they didn't have the resources to make another SSE styled mode with unique enemy character models and sidescrolling stages this time around.

To be fair, I do think they should have reused more existing enemies from intendo series instead of making a lot of unique ones from scratch. Smash Run had the right idea in that regard.

Hell, with a lot of these series having games on the Switch, maybe they could even port more models, like they did with the KI enemies on Smash Run?

Ultimately, at the end of the day, Smash Ultimate is a game where they decided to pretty much sacrifice everything else in the game for the sake of having the biggest character/stage roster possible. Whether that's a good or bad thing depends on what interests you the most in Smash (game modes or characters).

Couldn't resist.

But really, I think it's a double-edged sword. You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone saying that more characters is a bad thing, but you have to wonder at what point the game risks becoming stale, considering that we neither have good online or more single player modes to better enjoy said characters.

That said, I don't think the team can even do much at this point, so the only way to go would be more characters (in the event we got more stuff in the future). Because a lot of the other stuff would either need full reworks to systems or would need to be made from the ground up, which I assume is a big no-no in this development stage.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

This is also true, but it's important to consider that Twitter is a bigger platform than Smashboards. It has way more users, and with that comes a way bigger variety of tastes. It also helps that Nintendo has actual presence there, so all in all I think Smash Twitter is much more likely to be heard.

Yeah but here is the thing though, the amount of twitter users with any specific taste is still going to be greatly outnumbered by the number of people interacting with an official Smash Youtube video. Heck even on twitter, you will never see any hot take or opinion that comes close to getting the amount of likes Sakurai's post about got.

pic.twitter.com/4syhNGhBv1

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) February 18, 2021

And that is my point, whether you are talking about a few hundred people wanting something here on Smashboards or 5000 people wanting something on twitter, a vocal minority is still a vocal minority. Remember that the Smash Ballot got 1.8 million votes for a reason, which is a strong indicator of the size of the online fanbase.

 

[PeridotGX]

I think the disparity between Smashboards and Smash Twitter's tastes in characters speaks volumes in regards to why Nintendo chose the DLC characters they did.
From what I've seen, most of them were far more interested in big third-party characters that, if suggested here just a few years ago, would likely not have sat well with a lot of the more hardcore Nintendo fans here. Meanwhile, most of the more hardcore Nintendo fans on Smash Twitter seemed to want newer characters like Rex and dismissed most of the old favorites here as just that, old.
The truth is that Smashboards is, at the end of the day, a vocal minority. One that's way past the age range of the actual primary demographic Nintendo is aiming at. It'd be absurd to only pick the characters we suggest.

I thought we all collectively agreed that this is Sakurai's way of saying "it would take too much budget and dev time to make a story mode"

This reminds me of a thought I had awhile back. The age of forums is essentially over, dead at the hands of Twitter and Discord. This site is one of only a handful that's still even slightly relevant. But, once the last character releases, many are going to leave. In 5 or 6 years, when the next Smash releases, will Smashboards still exist?

 

[Deleted member]

This reminds me of a thought I had awhile back. The age of forums is essentially over, dead at the hands of Twitter and Discord. This site is one of only a handful that's still even slightly relevant. But, once the last character releases, many are going to leave. In 5 or 6 years, when the next Smash releases, will Smashboards still exist?

That really provides a lot for discussion.

Personally I'd say that this format is slowly dying off, but some people who will remember the format will probably stick around for the nostalgia.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

This reminds me of a thought I had awhile back. The age of forums is essentially over, dead at the hands of Twitter and Discord. This site is one of only a handful that's still even slightly relevant. But, once the last character releases, many are going to leave. In 5 or 6 years, when the next Smash releases, will Smashboards still exist?

You know, as someone who isn't even the biggest fan of Smash speculation... I'm kinda having the same thoughts here.

(Sad Ben Hours)

If this site dies, - and it's a possibility - the only place we'll be able to do future Smash speculation is Twitter or Discord. And those places are incredibly toxic as is. In fact, their toxicity is what had me not go on them so often in the first place. Actually, I'm a DeviantArt user myself (you're not the only one, Rie Sonomura :D), so if this site dies, - and again: it's a possibility - you're probably gonna see me do a lot of Mega Man Zero in future Smash games speculation there.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Smash Ultimate game design decision/focus was probably made by community tastes. If you have to choose between more character/stages or game modes, what would you choose? I’m glad they went for the first. Smash is primarly a multiplayer game, so any single player content is something (at least for me secondary. The only thing I missed is Target Smash (that considering it would be exhausting to made one specific target smash for each fighter, they should make a DIY like stage builder).
Just curious, what are twitter most requested characters?? I don’t have twitter lol.

 

[AinsOoalGown]

Considering No More Heroes got a spirit, I think Frisk is going to end up being Challenger Pack 11.
Still no UNDERTALE spirits, or maybe King Boo? We also didn't get a spirit for him

Id be fine with it but I honestly think some series just wont get spirits due some shenanigans relating to licensing them or just missing out. As it stands theres hundreds of series being repped in one way or another, so a few may end up not getting "all forms" of representation seing as we haveng gotten spirits to a few other third parties too.

There is definitely an air about, I don't want to say entitlement, because it's not 100% that, but there's definitely a lot of "I've been supporting this character for over a Decade, and Nintendo has done a poor job feeding people like me", and I've noticed this grow, a lot as of late.

Nah its definetly entitlement, I saw it on other sites, usually people complain about a newcomer saying its "literal who" and that they should pick their totally iconic mw instead, but Tekken is a funny case, its not only objectively big, but its so in the USA, the place were the most angry comments tend to come from seems like. So they couldnt use the usual insult and instead.... theres this few people here and there with this air of angry, petty passive-agressiveness you see sometimes, like wanting to complain about a character unfairly but know its wrong so they make up some bait or false complaint about game mechanics or the series etc. Its of course completely fair to not be happy after hoping for a cool choice for so long and it being a spirit or something instead of more fighters, but at the end of the day its still just a game, and one that did a mighty good job in both pleasing the fans and adding great movesets, characters, icons, and just being a good roster one way or another

Smash Ultimate game design decision/focus was probably made by community tastes. If you have to choose between more character/stages or game modes, what would you choose? I’m glad they went for the first. Smash is primarly a multiplayer game, so any single player content is something (at least for me secondary. The only thing I missed is Target Smash (that considering it would be exhausting to made one specific target smash for each fighter, they should make a DIY like stage builder).
Just curious, what are twitter most requested characters?? I don’t have twitter lol.

I dont think a twitter listing would be easy because people always forget the japanese fans overseas and how different their tastes tend to be from discussions of other groups, their wants should be always taken into account too when looking for most wanteds to not create weird distortions in how things really stand (like the strange dissonance with Dragon Quest, THE jrpg being seen as an obscure pick in certain places despite being such a cultural icon)

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Not only have I not gotten my most wanteds in this DLC, it almost feels like all the characters added have gone out of their way to deconfirm characters I do want.

Joker kills any chance of SMT representation.
Hero and Sephiroth murdered 2B.
Banjo and Steve... well they doesn't overlap with anything so they're fine.
Terry and Kazuya got rid of any chance of Sol Badguy.
Byleth took the "obligatory FE spot" from someone like Lyn or even considering FE3H, Edelgard or Dimitri.
Min Min made it in as the Switch darling over Astral Chain's Officer Howards
Pyra and Mythra took Elma's spot
And that's not to mention the Mii costumes killing Dante, X and Zero, Monster Hunter, and Travis Touchdown.

Obviously this isn't how the decision process works, but still it's difficult to not feel that way when things have come so close to what I wanted, locking their chances away for another 5+ years.

That said, most of them are relatively fun to play, so I don't really regret buying all this DLC.

All about the "I didnt get any of my most wanted either " train, im the driver

Luckily for me I only buy the characters I want and like but that doesn't help the fact that none of them are ones I actually wanted

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Smash Ultimate game design decision/focus was probably made by community tastes. If you have to choose between more character/stages or game modes, what would you choose? I’m glad they went for the first. Smash is primarly a multiplayer game, so any single player content is something (at least for me secondary. The only thing I missed is Target Smash (that considering it would be exhausting to made one specific target smash for each fighter, they should make a DIY like stage builder).
Just curious, what are twitter most requested characters?? I don’t have twitter lol.

Waluigi, who's more of a meme character at this point than an actual first-party.

 

[Jondolio]

I haven't been on Twitter in over a year (never coming back either) but from what I can tell the most requested character there is Crash. They generally prefer third-parties in general.

 

[Freduardo]

Unpopular opinion:

I loved SSE… but I’d prefer a combo of a new World of Twilight map (w/ new bosses) and the return of smash run with new stages over a return of old SSE or even new SSE.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I liked the concept of WoL. It gave me Dissidia (OG and 012, not NT) vibes somewhat

 

[MrJudd]

I think the disparity between Smashboards and Smash Twitter's tastes in characters speaks volumes in regards to why Nintendo chose the DLC characters they did.
From what I've seen, most of them were far more interested in big third-party characters that, if suggested here just a few years ago, would likely not have sat well with a lot of the more hardcore Nintendo fans here. Meanwhile, most of the more hardcore Nintendo fans on Smash Twitter seemed to want newer characters like Rex and dismissed most of the old favorites here as just that, old.
The truth is that Smashboards is, at the end of the day, a vocal minority. One that's way past the age range of the actual primary demographic Nintendo is aiming at. It'd be absurd to only pick the characters we suggest.

Decided to drop back to talk about this topic.

Most hardcore Smash communities, both here and in other places pay too much attention to characters alone and forget Smash's focus is related to IPs: characters only come after that. They also forget that Ultimate exists in a context of the Switch Era and is a continuation of everything set up by Smash 4. A lot of what happened back then still holds value today, but people have completely twisted the words that could've actually been used as good predictors for what characters would end up happening (I say this as someone who's been mentioning Rex/Pyra every possible moment I had before their reveal).

I don't expect that no one will know who 11 is, but I do think people are ignoring important details about the past and present of Smash Ultimate and what happens in gaming right now. If my research about 11 is ends up being right, the whole community will end up in flames.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If my research about 11 is ends up being right, the whole community will end up in flames.

Interesting. Explain please.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Three things
1) The game isn’t rushed
2) I love SSE. I’m ok with WoL. A mixture of the two would be great IMO. Have a map display like WoL but have the combat elements of SSE, with the bosses intertwined between the two modes, i.e. Galleom, Duon, Rayquaza, Dracula, etc
3) Today is Gamescon’s main opening day! Yay!

 

[Sucumbio]

All about the "I didnt get any of my most wanted either " train, im the driver

Luckily for me I only buy the characters I want and like but that doesn't help the fact that none of them are ones I actually wanted

Wait you didn't just buy the whole pass? I didn't think anyone actually did that at least smashboards users...

 

[Guynamednelson]

but can you really fault Nintendo for trying to rope in a wider, fresh audience

Just because Geno isn't in FP2 doesn't mean they want to look outside Smash's audience that much. Steve is the only character in FP2 that can very, definitely bring in a new audience.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Just because Geno isn't in FP2 doesn't mean they want to look outside Smash's audience that much. Steve is the only character in FP2 that can very, definitely bring in a new audience.

though.

 

[Momotsuki]

World of Light is fantastic...
...the first time through. The mode sorely lacks any sort of replay value. Imagine if they had offered a randomizer for the New Game+?

 

[Guynamednelson]

though.

I'm conflicted on that. On one hand, we've talked about Heihachi plenty before the costume's return, and, well, he has a costume. On the other fighter representation is more attractive than anyone else.

Still, that's only...2/5 of FP2 that can very definitely attract a new audience. 1 wasn't really better in that regard considering it had Banjo and Byleth take 2 of its slots.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

If my research about 11 is ends up being right, the whole community will end up in flames.

Ayo?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Wait you didn't just buy the whole pass? I didn't think anyone actually did that at least smashboards users...

Nah, it was pretty clear that would a dumb thing to do. The smartest thing is to gut buy what your interested in and not buy a blind pack

 

[Theguy123]

would be funny if eggman was last and the reason wol exists is because eggman was controlling them. The dudes always trying yo control villains he can’t control.

dark gia, chaos, the deadly six etc. Would be funny if he was the one who finds darkhon and galeem and he tries to take control of them which is the reason for WOL’s existence

Just a funny thought I had