Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Gengar84]

You know, as someone who isn't even the biggest fan of Smash speculation... I'm kinda having the same thoughts here.
View attachment 327665
(Sad Ben Hours)

If this site dies, - and it's a possibility - the only place we'll be able to do future Smash speculation is Twitter or Discord. And those places are incredibly toxic as is. In fact, their toxicity is what had me not go on them so often in the first place. Actually, I'm a DeviantArt user myself (you're not the only one, @Rie Sonomura :D), so if this site dies, - and again: it's a possibility - you're probably gonna see me do a lot of Mega Man Zero in future Smash games speculation there.

Yeah, I try to stay away from Twitter. I don’t think I’ve ever even gone there on my own without clicking a link that someone on a forum posts. I much prefer forums to platforms like Twitter but maybe that’s just because I’m old. I also have a DeviantArt account where I post our original characters for a game my brother and I have been wanting to make since we were kids. So far we’re still in the creative part fleshing out the world and characters and haven’t gotten around to actually programming anything and at the rate we’re going, we might never get there lol.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

YOOKA LAYLEE!

Would be a great Mii Brawler costume.

That is all.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

oh so now the smashboards dlc speculation discussion thread is gonna preach to us

 

[MrJudd]

Interesting. Explain please.

I could write a whole giga post about it, but this video is a good summary about most of my points about what this Pass has been and how it'll play out:

Basically a lot of people forget that decisions are made really far in advance regarding Smash Ultimate and people don't realize that what people should be looking at is what was expectations back on 2018 and earlier. Most fan supports from Ultimate only picked up strong steam in 2019 and later, both inside and outside of the community.

I'll keep my prediction of 11 close to my chest for now, but his Mii wave will probably go like it has been for every wave since Smash 4: a mix of costumes related to the character + some characters which had recent adverstiments/anniversaries and special releases (both forwards and backwards).

Overall, we're possibly at the last week of Smash Speculation: based on how Nintendo does their marketing, Sep 1st should be the date of the Direct since next week is empty, Wario Ware overview trailer dropped as intended for a smaller release (2 weeks) and the week after is Wario Ware reviews + release.

 

[Theguy123]

Would like to say that’s so far in all the dlc we have a 1980s rep, 1990s rep and 2010s rep. We’re still missing a 2000s rep. Just some food for thought. Probably doesn’t mean anything but thought it was worth pointing out.

 

[SKX31]

But really, I think it's a double-edged sword. You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone saying that more characters is a bad thing, but you have to wonder at what point the game risks becoming stale, considering that we neither have good online or more single player modes to better enjoy said characters.

While those factors do not help, it's worth remembering that Smash as a multiplayer game doesn't risk becoming "stale" the exact same way a single player game does. Multiplayer games are heavily based around the notion that people by nature are going to play differently from each other - this is not only reflected in character choices, but also how they play the characters.

Take for example. A lot of people (especially online) play him like a zoner - tossing Crowns and Cannonballs in every single situation no matter what. But thanks to his Belly Armor (and the related Crownerang armor) players can also choose to get into the fray with him. Sure, he has a ton of endlag, but he hits hard and rewards conditioning opponents, which also encourages people to play kinda like K Rool. As a big heavy boss.

Characters that lack projectiles are not exempt. While I'm not a fan of 's design due to it being railroad-y, he can still choose to either go for an offensive playstyle thanks to his ability to straight up win the ground game, but can also play more conservatively and react to more specific circumstances. In his defense of Mac (that I only just recently discovered), Thinkaman wrote this:

This is how I feel about Mac. He's structurally all-in on this dominant ground game, just like everything aobut the Zerg wins late game. But then he has these very specific tools grafted on that let him dominate outside his territory under very specific conditions. The fastest aerial in the game [N-Air]. One of the game's only 1f invincible moves [Up B]. The best anti-projectile gap closer [Side B].

While Mac's intentionally built to suffer in the air, he's not entirely helpless there - which grants players just enough freedom to go for Jolt Haymakers off stage or even D-Air if one's feeling extra. But it also allows Mac players to play more reactionary if they want to since they can jump over Link's projectiles with a well-timed Side B.

This is also something that MOBAs have, despite MOBA characters typically having only 4 spells (+ additional couple spells / activated items). League players suddenly notice that Ezreal can either build standard damage dealer or he can also build tank items in order to kite people? Dota players noticing that the hard support Io (the Wisp) - based around healing, buffing and teleporting the ally the Wisp's linked to - has had certain elements buffed to the point the Wisp can also build hard carry with an endlessly respawning set of exploding Spirits?

Now that's the kind of stuff that keeps people sticking around. It's no wonder that League's been going for 12+ years, and Dota for 17+. Other examples exist in other genres like WoW, StarCraft and even Street Fighter II. What helps Smash's longevity is that at the end of the day you can decide to play a match with all kinds of wacky settings and however a person wants to. And learn wacky stuff about what the characters do - this is how people discovered Peach can pull a Bomb outta nowhere, after all.

Multiplayer games usually become seen as stale when a certain aspect comes to dominate how people play for extended periods of time or a game loses much of its luster. "Seen it all", in other words. Considering that casual players have brought out Smash consistently over the years for fun parties and that more competitively inclined people have continued to partake in tournaments over the years, it's safe to say that Smash's not getting stale any time soon for a lot of people.

Oh and as for single player games? Single player games can also have a lot of replay value - whether it's through silly glitches ("YAHOOYAHOOYAYAYAYAYAYA..." zooms away to a parralel universe), dicovering new stuff like a room dedicated to a Nintendo Power subscriber or just because one wants to revisit a game. Single player games usually become seen as "stale" when there's not much else to do. While it's also "seen it all" it differs a bit from multiplayer games - single player games typically have an end goal, multiplayer games not neccessarily so.

And sometimes people just want to hit you with K. Rool's belly. not knowing or caring one bit about how much minus on shield that Dash Attack is or if Belly Armor's about to blow up in their face.

(That said though, yeah I do agree that a stronger online and more single player modes would help Smash immensely.)

 

[Gengar84]

Would like to say that’s so far in all the dlc we have a 1980s rep, 1990s rep and 2010s rep. We’re still missing a 2000s rep. Just some food for thought. Probably doesn’t mean anything but thought it was worth pointing out.

This is how Zegram can still win!

 

[Momotsuki]

Would like to say that’s so far in all the dlc we have a 1980s rep, 1990s rep and 2010s rep. We’re still missing a 2000s rep. Just some food for thought. Probably doesn’t mean anything but thought it was worth pointing out.

You mean 2004!?

Let's goooooo-

 

[GilTheGreat19]

but his

So it's a guy confirmed
Jk lol but yea I understand what your points are. I would say that's the core part of Second Chance Theory too.. things once considered in the past, but reattempted at with FP2.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Would like to say that’s so far in all the dlc we have a 1980s rep, 1990s rep and 2010s rep. We’re still missing a 2000s rep. Just some food for thought. Probably doesn’t mean anything but thought it was worth pointing out.

Cortez only exists in the 2000's era. TimeSplitters getting revived around the Fighter Pass dealings, is getting a new game soon, Free Radical Design has been revived, no First Person Shooter rep yet with Master Chief and Doom Guy seemingly out of the running. Also Shigeru Miyamoto at one point did say he wanted to make a First Person Shooter but take that as you will.

It is too much of a coincidence! Come on Nintendo, let the world experience the fantastic series that everyone sorely missed out on known as TimeSplitters and let Cortez battle against video games finest characters, side by side with his step brother and sister, Banjo & Kazooie while bearing the torch of his non-video game ancestor, James Bond!

Time to Split!

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I'm tempted to guess who MrJudd is predicting because I genuinely thought of someone who fits what he's talking about and it's a character/series Sakurai once considered repping

 

[Eldrake]

This is also something that MOBAs have, despite MOBA characters typically having only 4 spells (+ additional couple spells / activated items). League players suddenly notice that Ezreal can either build standard damage dealer or he can also build tank items in order to kite people? Dota players noticing that the hard support Io (the Wisp) - based around healing, buffing and teleporting the ally the Wisp's linked to - has had certain elements buffed to the point the Wisp can also build hard carry with an endlessly respawning set of exploding Spirits?

That was fun.

Also got nerfed by IceFrog, but that was probably a given considering how genuinely broken Carry Wisp was.

 

[MrJudd]

So it's a guy confirmed
Jk lol but yea I understand what your points are. I would say that's the core part of Second Chance Theory too.. things once considered in the past, but reattempted at with FP2.

The thing is that I don't like to attach myself to theories because most of them I find either terrible (color theory) or heavily misunderstood (mii costume theory). I prefer looking at the events going on in the Nintendo community and what we can learn from them.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I could write a whole giga post about it, but this video is a good summary about most of my points about what this Pass has been and how it'll play out:

Basically a lot of people forget that decisions are made really far in advance regarding Smash Ultimate and people don't realize that what people should be looking at is what was expectations back on 2018 and earlier. Most fan supports from Ultimate only picked up strong steam in 2019 and later, both inside and outside of the community.

I'll keep my prediction of 11 close to my chest for now, but his Mii wave will probably go like it has been for every wave since Smash 4: a mix of costumes related to the character + some characters which had recent adverstiments/anniversaries and special releases (both forwards and backwards).

Overall, we're possibly at the last week of Smash Speculation: based on how Nintendo does their marketing, Sep 1st should be the date of the Direct since next week is empty, Wario Ware overview trailer dropped as intended for a smaller release (2 weeks) and the week after is Wario Ware reviews + release.

The point about 2018 being the year DLC was chosen might not fully apply when Fighters Pass 2 was revealed properly at Byleth’s release iirc, and “more DLC was in development” when Terry/Banjo was revealed iirc. This leads me to believe that some sort of finalizing and conceptualization of the second wave of DLC was still underway in 2019, making our delay in perception ”only” two years.

Will it be a character that picked up global fan support since 2019? Probably not. Final DLC is mostly focussed on squeezing that final bit of time out to coincide with a more recent release as seen with Corrin and Byleth. A “lest you missed the boat that doesn’t come around until five years later” sort of deal. Furthermore, it’s good to keep in mind that the popularity of characters has mostly been gauged with the Smash Ballot. Only the Aegis could be argued to be a popular character request that has emerged since. The video you linked talked about this as well, the final character could be a character that bumps up the “year last repped by playable characters” up from 2017 to prevent it from having a distinct “mid 2010 newcomers” feel that Smash 4 had between newcomers like Rosalina, Greninja and Robin, or the “Oh Geez Pikmin is the latest new series added and that was a GameCube game” in Brawl.

Combining these two principles however, doesn’t tell us much. On one hand, DLC and roster-making in general has this inherent latency where the latest playable characters are from a few years ago, and new requests can’t be honored once they’re locked in. On the other hand, final DLC has historically made an effort to remedy that with Corrin and Byleth, and with the long running time of fighters pass 2 could try to do so again.

My counterpoint could lead to your cryptic and seemingly obvious point about Mii Costumes though; Smash Ultimate has been battling the latency and proneness to aging outside of playable characters already. Mii Costumes added to celebrate new releases and sudden requests and more importantly Spirit Events to bump up the “last year of content” to as recent as 2021. This could lead to a Challenger Pack 11 that doesn’t have to throw its spackle in a leap of faith to the year 2021, and can instead cover ground prior to the decision day of Fighters Pass 2.

Whether that ground-covering will concern itself with a specifically popular request is another question entirely. Popularity (or rather, requestedness for Smash) isn’t the only reason to add a character. Base game did that, but as the video says, if you cater to what tops the polls you can keep spackling till you reach the wrath of the criminally unrepresented Perry the Parasol fanbase, whose exclusion proves Sakurai doesn’t care about the true fans of Smash. This is only exacerbated by the latency of the roster: For every Banjo you add, a Crash takes its place. For every Mega Man, Palutena, Mewtwo, Little Mac, Shulk, Ridley, K. Rool, there‘s a Geno, Bandana Dee, Dixie Kong or some other cosmically wronged fanbase casting its scornful wrath over the next speculation period. Best to spread your wings and cover new ground than to focus on the eternal whack-a-mole, which is why I don’t think specifically Smash-related popularity is the only type of character to consider when applying the idea that the roster is two years behind, and it’s not guaranteed that Smash will take its time to spackle up a poll dominator from 2018/2019

 

[Guynamednelson]

people should be looking at is what was expectations back on 2018 and earlier

With Second Chance Theory being a thing I'd think more people would want to consider this a pass locked in over a year before Sakurai said FP1 was finalized. Like, I've always thought one of Geno's biggest qualities preventing him from being in the game was the decline in Genomania during the Smash 4 era, and when would it finally have picked up all its steam again? Mid-2018, AKA after:

• Sakurai decided against adding ARMS and XC2 reps to the base game for their recency
• Nintendo's begging for Steve began
• Negotiations with Square-Enix resulted in FFVII music/spirits being saved for DLC
• Sakurai decided against adding a Tekken rep to Smash 4

 

[GilTheGreat19]

The thing is that I don't like to attach myself to theories because most of them I find either terrible (color theory) or heavily misunderstood (mii costume theory). I prefer looking at the events going on in the Nintendo community and what we can learn from them.

I see. Smart! : )

 

[Metal Shop X]

You mean 2004!?
View attachment 327670
Let's goooooo-

Madotsuki be Gaming.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Eh, theories are really just ideas that we slapped a fancy name on. ”The idea that DLC can be used to make the game feel more complete in key areas“ sounds more sophisticated than “Second Chance Theory”, but some principles just become so common talking points that we’ve lexicalized them with a fancy name. The suffix ”theory” doesn’t per se mean that an idea is flawed or doesn’t apply, as long as you remember singular dogma’s or ideas are rarely the truth on their own and multiple factors go into this gabagool.

 

[MrJudd]

The thing is that popularity only becomes a factor once you enter the sphere of a specific IP: take Cloud for example (as mentioned by his selection process after 4). They first chose Final Fantasy, then went on to Cloud. With a lot of IPs, there is a clear frontrunner, but for others, they are more mixed (ARMS) or can fall issue to development (Xenoblade 2 and Pyra/Mythra not having Rex in the moveset outside of the Final Smash and taunts). As I mentioned in an earlier post, people take too much the characters as gospel when they should only look at them after the IPs they represent. You'll also notice this by what Sakurai says in the Presents: he never mentions the character's name as Nintendo choosing them, he mentions the name of the series (Minecraft, not Steve; Tekken, not Kazuya).

I'll probably stay around until the Fall Direct as compensation for tanking Smashboards' traffic by debunking the website stuff lol, but I'm mostly more interested in what Nintendo will do outside of Smash.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It was a ****post meant to get a rise out of people and to cause intrigue on clarification, but I'm not surprised that it only did the former and not the latter. In other words, we do a little trolling, but also it was a bait to make people want to know what I meant, but I was silly because I should have known the audience better.

Schrodinger's idiot is not a hat you want to wear dude.

 

[3BitSaurus]

While those factors do not help, it's worth remembering that Smash as a multiplayer game doesn't risk becoming "stale" the exact same way a single player game does. Multiplayer games are heavily based around the notion that people by nature are going to play differently from each other - this is not only reflected in character choices, but also how they play the characters.

Take for example. A lot of people (especially online) play him like a zoner - tossing Crowns and Cannonballs in every single situation no matter what. But thanks to his Belly Armor (and the related Crownerang armor) players can also choose to get into the fray with him. Sure, he has a ton of endlag, but he hits hard and rewards conditioning opponents, which also encourages people to play kinda like K Rool. As a big heavy boss.

Characters that lack projectiles are not exempt. While I'm not a fan of 's design due to it being railroad-y, he can still choose to either go for an offensive playstyle thanks to his ability to straight up win the ground game, but can also play more conservatively and react to more specific circumstances. In his defense of Mac (that I only just recently discovered), Thinkaman wrote this:



While Mac's intentionally built to suffer in the air, he's not entirely helpless there - which grants players just enough freedom to go for Jolt Haymakers off stage or even D-Air if one's feeling extra. But it also allows Mac players to play more reactionary if they want to since they can jump over Link's projectiles with a well-timed Side B.

This is also something that MOBAs have, despite MOBA characters typically having only 4 spells (+ additional couple spells / activated items). League players suddenly notice that Ezreal can either build standard damage dealer or he can also build tank items in order to kite people? Dota players noticing that the hard support Io (the Wisp) - based around healing, buffing and teleporting the ally the Wisp's linked to - has had certain elements buffed to the point the Wisp can also build hard carry with an endlessly respawning set of exploding Spirits?

Now that's the kind of stuff that keeps people sticking around. It's no wonder that League's been going for 12+ years, and Dota for 17+. Other examples exist in other genres like WoW, StarCraft and even Street Fighter II. What helps Smash's longevity is that at the end of the day you can decide to play a match with all kinds of wacky settings and however a person wants to. And learn wacky stuff about what the characters do - this is how people discovered Peach can pull a Bomb outta nowhere, after all.

Multiplayer games usually become seen as stale when a certain aspect comes to dominate how people play for extended periods of time or a game loses much of its luster. "Seen it all", in other words. Considering that casual players have brought out Smash consistently over the years for fun parties and that more competitively inclined people have continued to partake in tournaments over the years, it's safe to say that Smash's not getting stale any time soon for a lot of people.

Oh and as for single player games? Single player games can also have a lot of replay value - whether it's through silly glitches ("YAHOOYAHOOYAYAYAYAYAYA..." zooms away to a parralel universe), dicovering new stuff like a room dedicated to a Nintendo Power subscriber or just because one wants to revisit a game. Single player games usually become seen as "stale" when there's not much else to do. While it's also "seen it all" it differs a bit from multiplayer games - single player games typically have an end goal, multiplayer games not neccessarily so.

And sometimes people just want to hit you with K. Rool's belly. not knowing or caring one bit about how much minus on shield that Dash Attack is or if Belly Armor's about to blow up in their face.

(That said though, yeah I do agree that a stronger online and more single player modes would help Smash immensely.)

Agreed. My issue isn't that I don't think Smash has replay value, it's just that I wonder how long it'll last without good single player and online multiplayer. The competitive community helps a LOT with this, but with Covid restrictions and tournaments being mostly... well, online, there's only so much that can be done. I think that's what makes the situation a bit different from League, I suppose. Because at the end of the day, League will keep getting new events, game modes and characters, as well as revamps of old ones - it's been that way for 10 years.

Smash can't really do that after CP11 is out.

...I dunno if I'm being more of a downer with this than I want to, it's just something that crossed my mind recently.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Schrodinger's idiot is not a hat you want to wear dude.

Ah but don't you realize? It's just a prank bro.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The thing is that popularity only becomes a factor once you enter the sphere of a specific IP: take Cloud for example (as mentioned by his selection process after 4). They first chose Final Fantasy, then went on to Cloud. With a lot of IPs, there is a clear frontrunner, but for others, they are more mixed (ARMS) or can fall issue to development (Xenoblade 2 and Pyra/Mythra not having Rex in the moveset outside of the Final Smash and taunts). As I mentioned in an earlier post, people take too much the characters as gospel when they should only look at them after the IPs they represent. You'll also notice this by what Sakurai says in the Presents: he never mentions the character's name as Nintendo choosing them, he mentions the name of the series (Minecraft, not Steve; Tekken, not Kazuya).

I'll probably stay around until the Fall Direct as compensation for tanking Smashboards' traffic by debunking the website stuff lol, but I'm mostly more interested in what Nintendo will do outside of Smash.

A very interesting point.
Do you think that Sakurai's selection process is more character based than Nintendo's?

 

[Ivander]

I'm okay with what happened to Subspace Emissary. But as I've constantly mentioned, I do wish Smash Run or enemies from different series came back. Smash Run and fighting enemies from different series was just very fun to play and do.

I honestly think bringing back regular enemies would've helped with Spirit Mode's replayability. Kinda like how they did with the Assist Trophy characters, but with a whole bunch of regular enemies as additional enemies. Like fighting a Magikoopa or multiple for the Kamek, Baby Bowser and the 3 Yoshi Bosses alongside their chosen fighter for the Spirit battles. Or fighting against a Bonkers alongside the possessed DK in Bonkers' spirit battle.
In World of Light's case, a few platforming stages, but not a lot, using different enemies like what Cuphead did would've been cool.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

The thing is that popularity only becomes a factor once you enter the sphere of a specific IP: take Cloud for example (as mentioned by his selection process after 4). They first chose Final Fantasy, then went on to Cloud. With a lot of IPs, there is a clear frontrunner, but for others, they are more mixed (ARMS) or can fall issue to development (Xenoblade 2 and Pyra/Mythra not having Rex in the moveset outside of the Final Smash and taunts). As I mentioned in an earlier post, people take too much the characters as gospel when they should only look at them after the IPs they represent. You'll also notice this by what Sakurai says in the Presents: he never mentions the character's name as Nintendo choosing them, he mentions the name of the series (Minecraft, not Steve; Tekken, not Kazuya).

I'll probably stay around until the Fall Direct as compensation for tanking Smashboards' traffic by debunking the website stuff lol, but I'm mostly more interested in what Nintendo will do outside of Smash.

I’d argue that speculation as is discusses a level too high. The most common line of speculation is which company is “due for a rep” or whatever, whereas the trend seems to be on IP level.

 

[MrJudd]

A very interesting point.
Do you think that Sakurai's selection process is more character based than Nintendo's?

More demand-based: a lot of the choices so far for Ultimate are shaped in 2 key aspects:

• The demand for specific characters (both from developers and fans) inside an IP/subset of the IP
• The development hurdles at play

I’d argue that speculation as is discusses a level too high. The most common line of speculation is which company is “due for a rep” or whatever, whereas the trend seems to be on IP level.

Yeah, that's kinda one of the many details a lot of people don't really factor in their predictions.

 

[Theguy123]

I could write a whole giga post about it, but this video is a good summary about most of my points about what this Pass has been and how it'll play out:

people don't realize that what people should be looking at is what was expectations back on 2018 and earlier.

this is one of the many reasons to why I feel Layton has a better chance than what people give him credit for. At this time he was getting his first trilogy ported to mobile. His golden trilogy. Curious village came in 2018 and Pandora’s box came in 2019 with lost future coming in 2020.

Not to mention the merch he got recently from fangamer which is an official merchandise company. Level 5 would’ve needed to give their license out to them to make merch and they said they had no plans to do anything for the time being in the west which is odd because then why would you go and release merch. Only reason I could think off is if they’re trying to stay relevant of some sort in the west for something.

it’s one of the reasons why I think we’re gonna get a new Layton game soon or an announcement for a potential crossover in something. Could all be nothing either way but the pass being decided around 2018/2019 is a main factor to why I think laytons a lot more likelier than anyone gives credit.

 

[SNEKeater]

It's okay to feel disappontment when none of your most wanteds get in. I've barely got MWs added to Ultimate but I'm really happy with what they did.

The problem is when people feel like Nintendo owes them something because a bunch of fans decided to start campaining for a character on the internet years ago. This doesn't mean Nintendo shouldn't listen to fans, but there's nothing that says "Nintendo will please the core Smash community adding popular requests" as if that was a law or something.

If you decide to invest time and support into a character, that's your decision, Nintendo hasn't forced anyone to have "most wanteds". Yeah, it sucks when your characters are disconfirmed, I know the feeling, but that's how it is. Maybe the next Smash game will appeal specifically to me when it comes to newcomers, maybe not. You might be disappointed with the selection they made and that's completely valid, but other people will be very happy. Some fans will be more lucky than others and that can't be helped.

You can of course respectfully ask for what you want, but I don't think it's hard to understand that they're not forced to please you. Supporting a character for 10+ years doesn't mean they owe you anything.

 

[MrJudd]

this is one of the many reasons to why I feel Layton has a better chance than what people give him credit for. At this time he was getting his first trilogy ported to mobile. His golden trilogy. Curious village came in 2018 and Pandora’s box came in 2019 with lost future coming in 2020.

Not to mention the merch he got recently from fangamer which is an official merchandise company. Level 5 would’ve needed to give their license out to them to make merch and they said they had no plans to do anything for the time being in the west which is odd because then why would you go and release merch. Only reason I could think off is if they’re trying to stay relevant of some sort in the west for something.

it’s one of the reasons why I think we’re gonna get a new Layton game soon or an announcement for a potential crossover in something. Could all be nothing either way but the pass being decided around 2018/2019 is a main factor to why I think laytons a lot more likelier than anyone gives credit.

I honestly wish Level-5 actually knew how to handle themselves, because they had the perfect chance to get content in this game and totally blew it totally with their decisions and handling of the company.

It's okay to feel disappontment when none of your most wanteds get in. I've barely got MWs added to Ultimate but I'm really happy with what they did.

The problem is when people feel like Nintendo owes them something because a bunch of fans decided to start campaining for a character on the internet years ago. This doesn't mean Nintendo shouldn't listen to fans, but there's nothing that says "Nintendo will please the core Smash community adding popular requests" as if that was a law or something.

If you decide to invest time and support into a character, that's your decision, Nintendo hasn't forced anyone to have "most wanteds". Yeah, it sucks when your characters are disconfirmed, I know the feeling, but that's how it is. Maybe the next Smash game will appeal specifically to me when it comes to newcomers, maybe not. You might be disappointed with the selection they made and that's completely valid, but other people will be very happy. Some fans will be more lucky than others and that can't be helped.

You can of course respectfully ask for what you want, but I don't think it's hard to understand that they're not forced to please you. Supporting a character for 10+ years doesn't mean they owe you anything.

The worst part is that, while doing my research, Smash Team/Sakurai did the freaking best they could with the hand they were dealt with and I expect a lot of people to discredit that with the final reveal because of "why did you make this a playable character when X big mascot was a Mii".

 

[Curious Villager]

Would like to say that’s so far in all the dlc we have a 1980s rep, 1990s rep and 2010s rep. We’re still missing a 2000s rep. Just some food for thought. Probably doesn’t mean anything but thought it was worth pointing out.

We haven't really had any newcomers from the 2000's throughout this entire game's lifespan apart from an echo an alt and one that is, very debatable at best I guess...

It sucks too if you have any wanted characters from that decade as its neither old enough to be considered "nostalgic" or new enough to be considered "modern" so its stuck in this weird limbo.

It's especially sad how ignored it is considering how much used Gamecube, GBA and DS games are selling online right now, showing that there is a surge of nostalgia and demand for that era going on right now from gamers that grew up with it, but isn't really tapped into that much by the game's industry beyond that..

 

[Theguy123]

I honestly wish Level-5 actually knew how to handle themselves, because they had the perfect chance to get content in this game and totally blew it totally with their decisions and handling of the company.

same. I’m still confident in them potentially being the last spot though or at least getting some content of some sort. Hino and sakurai are close. I doubt the possibility hasn’t been brought up when they talked about it in brawl and level 5 have their own section on the Nintendo website but I wish they knew how to market their games better. It didn’t help how a lot of their games come out years before in different countries.

You’d never see a Mario game release in Japan 1/2 years earlier than somewhere like America or England. Would help if they didn’t shove everything to one side when a franchise shows some potential (cough cough yo Kai watch)
[/QUOTE]

 

[Mamboo07]

Michael the Spikester
If there's a post credits for Let there be Carnage, I can picture it foreshadowing Toxin who would be in a 3rd Vemon movie:

Edit: wrong thread doh

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Sales wise, Layton's bigger than Ace Attorney so there's that too. Heck iirc it's the best selling visual novel series.
He'd be cool for sure.

 

[Jondolio]

I'm 100% sure the last character is gonna be a Gen 8 Pokémon. Who that will be remains to be seen, though-

Would like to say that’s so far in all the dlc we have a 1980s rep, 1990s rep and 2010s rep. We’re still missing a 2000s rep. Just some food for thought. Probably doesn’t mean anything but thought it was worth pointing out.

NEVERMIND PHOENIX WRIGHT LES GOOO

 

[Gengar84]

Michael the Spikester
If there's a post credits for Let there be Carnage, I can picture it foreshadowing Toxin who would be in a 3rd Vemon movie:
View attachment 327683

Edit: wrong thread doh

I’m going to be disappointed if they don’t use Green Jelly’s Carnage Rules from Maximum Carnage for the end credits.

Green Jelly - Carnage Rules

Badass- Song based on a badass killer!This song was also used in the SNES-game "Spider-Man & Venom in Maximum Carnage".

m.youtube.com

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Sales wise, Layton's bigger than Ace Attorney so there's that too. Heck iirc it's the best selling visual novel series.
He'd be cool for sure.

Frankly, even though Layton sells more, I'd argue Ace Attorney is the bigger IP purely because of how Capcom runs it.

Capcom's made a movie and anime out of the IP and has managed to make the series grow with well timed and paced releases and collections.

Meanwhile Level-5, bizarrely aren't doing a ton with Layton and I believe the franchise is shrinking in size. I don't really hear people talk about new Layton stuff anymore and I used to quite a bit.

It's a shame too. The Layton formula is unlike any out there.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Frankly, even though Layton sells more, I'd argue Ace Attorney is the bigger IP purely because of how Capcom runs it.

Capcom's made a movie and anime out of the IP and has managed to make the series grow with well timed and paced releases and collections.

Meanwhile Level-5, bizarrely aren't doing a ton with Layton and I believe the franchise is shrinking in size. I don't really hear people talk about new Layton stuff anymore and I used to quite a bit.

It's a shame too. The Layton formula is unlike any out there.

I got it
We bring them both in >: )

 

[Jondolio]

As nice as the "spackle" theory sounds, it seems to me more like a coincidence than an actual theme. Mostly because I always doubt patterns.

 

[Curious Villager]

same. I’m still confident in them potentially being the last spot though or at least getting some content of some sort. Hino and sakurai are close. I doubt the possibility hasn’t been brought up when they talked about it in brawl and level 5 have their own section on the Nintendo website but I wish they knew how to market their games better. It didn’t help how a lot of their games come out years before in different countries.

You’d never see a Mario game release in Japan 1/2 years earlier than somewhere like America or England. Would help if they didn’t shove everything to one side when a franchise shows some potential (cough cough yo Kai watch)

To be fair, pre-Wii U era Nintendo was pretty shoddy when it came to global releases too, especially between Japan and Europe, Brawl was pretty infamous with that as the game had a release date and came out in Japan and in US a month or two later but Europe didn't even hear much of a peep until many month's later. I think that was the point where Nintendo started to address their regional release gaps better since I recalled a fairly big backlash in regards to that at the time, to the point even they themselves addressed the whole thing.

When it comes to Mario, they used to have their large release gaps too what with Super Mario Bros 3 for NES taking 2 years to release in the US and 3 for Europe.

It wasn't until the last decade when Nintendo started to shorten the release gaps with their games and eventually be able to do worldwide releases on a consistent basis.

Level-5 however, yeah, their a bit of a class of their own, the Layton release gaps have been fairly tame all things considered, even shortening the gap between Japan and the West as the series went on to even having a few worldwide releases, their other IP's are a bit of a mess though and are a bit more reminiscent of Nintendo's early NES days, which may be more down to L5 prioritizing Japan over the west for their games unless they prove to be successful outside of Japan like Layton did...

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Not only have I not gotten my most wanteds in this DLC, it almost feels like all the characters added have gone out of their way to deconfirm characters I do want.

Joker kills any chance of SMT representation.
Hero and Sephiroth murdered 2B.
Banjo and Steve... well they doesn't overlap with anything so they're fine.
Terry and Kazuya got rid of any chance of Sol Badguy.
Byleth took the "obligatory FE spot" from someone like Lyn or even considering FE3H, Edelgard or Dimitri.
Min Min made it in as the Switch darling over Astral Chain's Officer Howards
Pyra and Mythra took Elma's spot
And that's not to mention the Mii costumes killing Dante, X and Zero, Monster Hunter, and Travis Touchdown.

Obviously this isn't how the decision process works, but still it's difficult to not feel that way when things have come so close to what I wanted, locking their chances away for another 5+ years.

That said, most of them are relatively fun to play, so I don't really regret buying all this DLC.

I would argue a SMT is the most likely character for the final one