Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[True Blue Warrior]

That's the one, yes. IMHO, he's very well-spoken about the stuff he covers and oftentimes presents a solid argument (which is why I built off of that and other videos of his for multiple posts), although he tends to miss some stuff that could be included and he's also prone to overemphasising some areas. Still worth a watch.

For the idea of projectile invulnerability frames, it can be applied to these following characters:

Spoiler

: Dash Attack, Down B, Up B
: Dash Attack, Forward Aerial, Up B
:Dash Attack, Neutral Aerial, Side B,
Down B
: Dash Attack, Forward Aerial, Side B, Down B
: Neutral Aerial, Forward Aerial, Side B
: Dash Attack, Neutral Aerial, Up B,
Down B
: Dash Attack, Side B
: Dash Attack, Forward Aerial
: Dash Attack, Forward Aerial
: Dash Attack, Side Smash, Up Smash, Forward Smash, Forward Aerial, Down Aerial, Side B, Down B
: Dash Attack, Forward Aerial
: Dash Attack, Forward Aerial
: Dash Attack, Neutral B, Side B, Up B
: Dash Attack, Side B, Down B
: Dash Attack, Side Smash, Down Smash, Neutral Aerial, Forward Aerial
: Dash Attack, Side B air version
: Dash Attack, Forward Aerial
: Side B
: Dash Attack, Side B
: Dash Attack, Side B
: Dash Attack, Neutral Aerial, Neutral B, Side B
: Dash Attack, Side B

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

For the idea of projectile invulnerability frames, it can be applied to these following characters:

Spoiler

: Dash Attack, Down B, Up B
: Dash Attack, Forward Aerial, Up B
:Dash Attack, Neutral Aerial, Side B,
Down B
: Dash Attack, Forward Aerial, Side B, Down B
: Neutral Aerial, Forward Aerial, Side B
: Dash Attack, Neutral Aerial, Up B,
Down B
: Dash Attack, Side B
: Dash Attack, Forward Aerial
: Dash Attack, Forward Aerial
: Dash Attack, Side Smash, Up Smash, Forward Smash, Forward Aerial, Down Aerial, Side B, Down B
: Dash Attack, Forward Aerial
: Dash Attack, Forward Aerial
: Dash Attack, Neutral B, Side B, Up B
: Dash Attack, Side B, Down B
: Dash Attack, Side Smash, Down Smash, Neutral Aerial, Forward Aerial
: Dash Attack, Side B air version
: Dash Attack, Forward Aerial
: Side B
: Dash Attack, Side B
: Dash Attack, Side B
: Dash Attack, Neutral Aerial, Neutral B, Side B
: Dash Attack, Side B

This but everytime there's a Forward Aerial listed, this plays:

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think ‘s Down B should be replaced with a reflector move.

 

[Theguy123]

whoever FP11 is they’re most likely a new franchise if sakurai’s words are to go off from during banjo’s presentation when he spoke about pass 2. He talks about how this (fighter pass 2) is an opportunity to bring even more “new worlds” to smash bros ultimate.

FF7, Xenoblade 2, tekken and arms aren’t new to smash. They had content in smash already before pass 2 so minecraft is the only new franchise. The word worlds implies 2 franchises in this pass were new so going off his words there’s a high chances the last rep is from a franchise that has no content in smash at all.

no music, no spirits, no assist trophy, no playable character already, no stage etc.

this could all mean nothing though and before anyone asks what tekken already had in the game, it’s apart of Pac-Man’s taunt so it’s not new to smash.

You can technically count heihachi’s mii costume as well. It wasn’t a new mii costume and it returned way before we got kazuya. Everyone expected it back.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

whoever FP11 is they’re most likely a new franchise if sakurai’s words are to go off from during banjo’s presentation when he spoke about pass 2. He talks about how this (fighter pass 2) is an opportunity to bring even more “new worlds” to smash bros ultimate.

That comment doesn’t mean much.

My understanding of what Sakurai said in the livestream portion is this:
"just by adding one character, we can expand the world of Smash".

It's not clear cut if the additional characters will be from new IPs or not in my opinion. I ask two translator friends and they agreed. pic.twitter.com/ZeIHgzT6RR

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) September 5, 2019

 

[3BitSaurus]

That comment doesn’t mean much.

Especially when you consider that 2 of the 5 characters so far come from series that had playable characters already. And 2 of the remaining 3 already had at least one piece of content in the game, however small (ARMS had Spirits and Heihachi was present in Pac-Man's taunt).

So the "new" part just means that they're characters/games that didn't have playable representation before.

 

[Theguy123]

That comment doesn’t mean much.

My understanding of what Sakurai said in the livestream portion is this:
"just by adding one character, we can expand the world of Smash".

It's not clear cut if the additional characters will be from new IPs or not in my opinion. I ask two translator friends and they agreed. pic.twitter.com/ZeIHgzT6RR

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) September 5, 2019

ahh that’s fair then. Thanks for bringing this up. Didn’t know it had been talked about before

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think ‘s Down B should be replaced with a reflector move.

That feel when you punch a ball of plasma so hard you send it back.

 

[SKX31]

I think ‘s Down B should be replaced with a reflector move.

Considering , and :

That said, having Little Mac punch away lasers does sound fun. And TBF, they've started to add reflectors to the normal movesets (Min Min and Kazuya), so there's that option too.

For the idea of projectile invulnerability frames, it can be applied to these following characters:

Fully appriciate the list - there are some characters that could use it more than others. does need it more than IMHO - Falcon has very few issues with gap closing, while Ganondorf relies more on opponents making a mistake in order to gap close and create fear in the opponent's head. Or a game turning into a bar brawl, that suits Ganon just fine too.

I do agree though that and could also use that - it would help their approaches.

And this extends to potential newcomers: take Rayman for example. Since Rayman's signature attack is his hands boomeranging, the scenario where those hands clank with projectiles would be potentially irritating for his players. Megaman's jab in particular, since he shoots three pellets compared with Rayman's two hands. Of course, there's intangibility for that too, but not sure how to balance that since intangibility also goes through melee attacks. Ditto someone like Kiryu or mayyybe Sakura (depending on if she uses the mech primarily or goes mostly on foot in PxZ, if the former I find it a bit more likely since the mech's a bigger target).

 

[SNEKeater]

Kinda random and I know not everyone is hating on the new Pokémon games but I saw this and found it very funny

pic.twitter.com/n4hVy5xY4e

— Wari (@Zari_Wari) August 18, 2021

 

[Mamboo07]

Kinda random and I know not everyone is hating on the new Pokémon games but I saw this and found it very funny

pic.twitter.com/n4hVy5xY4e

— Wari (@Zari_Wari) August 18, 2021

Something something boycotting Legends

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'd love this just because Marco and friends would have to be absolutely tiny for it to work.

Eh, not really. The Metal Slug is pretty small in practice.

If the Metal Slug characters were about Mii sized, the tank wouldn't be any bigger than K Rool.

 

[Sucumbio]

Run and gun games.... Very under represented now that I think of it... I'd be down with slug or contra though to me contra was always the more popular choice at least in my area growing up.

 

[Theguy123]

2 days later and the smash bros Japan page still hasn’t tweeted anything to do with the tournament event we just got on Tuesday. Why are they being quiet all of a sudden.

First we had the 8.8.18 direct takedown, then we had them being standby absent for the Mario golf spirits only for them to post a few hours later about them and now they’ve gone nearly 2 full days without saying anything. Anyone else just confused as to why.

 

[2006ToyotaTacoma]

Kinda random and I know not everyone is hating on the new Pokémon games but I saw this and found it very funny

pic.twitter.com/n4hVy5xY4e

— Wari (@Zari_Wari) August 18, 2021

I also love how the bananas are now Staminans.

 

[Sucumbio]

2 days later and the smash bros Japan page still hasn’t tweeted anything to do with the tournament event we just got on Tuesday. Why are they being quiet all of a sudden.

First we had the 8.8.18 direct takedown, then we had them being standby absent for the Mario golf spirits only for them to post a few hours later about them and now they’ve gone nearly 2 full days without saying anything. Anyone else just confused as to why.

.
I feel like it's just them wanting to coordinate with the Pokemon news but I wouldn't put it past Nintendo to purposefully downplay smash ahead of next month's direct to build suspense... Maybe? Lol

 

[GilTheGreat19]

just had a thought
While a character could have 0 ties to Nintendo, what about the franchise the character is from? Meaning what if the franchise itself had no ties to Nintendo either? Or what would happen if the franchise had no ties but the character did?

I’m not gonna make up a fanrule and say something like “if they’re not on Nintendo they won’t happen” or something, because I know for a fact that anything other than 4th and 5th parties is possible. Not to mention that ties to Nintendo would probably just give a sort of boost or high chance to get in, if you will.

 

[osby]

just had a thought
While a character could have 0 ties to Nintendo, what about the franchise the character is from? Meaning what if the franchise itself had no ties to Nintendo either? Or what would happen if the franchise had no ties but the character did?

I’m not gonna make up a fanrule and say something like “if they’re not on Nintendo they won’t happen” or something, because I know for a fact that anything other than 4th and 5th parties is possible. Not to mention that ties to Nintendo would probably just give a sort of boost or high chance to get in, if you will.

That's pretty much how Persona got in. It barely has anything to do with Nintendo aside from a couple of spin-offs.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

2 days later and the smash bros Japan page still hasn’t tweeted anything to do with the tournament event we just got on Tuesday. Why are they being quiet all of a sudden.

First we had the 8.8.18 direct takedown, then we had them being standby absent for the Mario golf spirits only for them to post a few hours later about them and now they’ve gone nearly 2 full days without saying anything. Anyone else just confused as to why.

I feel like the rise in covid cases in japan has something to do with this silence

 

[GilTheGreat19]

That's pretty much how Persona got in. It barely has anything to do with Nintendo aside from a couple of spin-offs.

Funny you mention that, that post I just typed up was partially influence by what you said rn.

 

[Idon]

Or what would happen if the franchise had no ties but the character did?

If a character has ties then by extension so does the franchise no? The character is part of the franchise.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

If a character has ties then by extension so does the franchise no? The character is part of the franchise.

I guess so. But wouldn't that be more of an indirect correlation?

 

[Dinoman96]

Persona is pretty much the one IP that's stretching the "Nintendo courtesy" thing to it's absolute limit.

Arguably Tekken is second in line, but I guess at least one can say that Tag Team Tournament 2 is a notable game (even if it's still a spinoff) and it was released on Wii U, with a bunch of Nintendo costumes even.

If a character has ties then by extension so does the franchise no? The character is part of the franchise.

I guess that poster is referring to how characters from series that's never been on a Nintendo platform have techically made some appearances on Nintendo hardware themselves. Like how we just got Kratos and Master Chief in Fortnite, even though obviously God of War and Halo themselves have never had a game published on Nintendo hardware.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Persona is pretty much the one IP that's stretching the "Nintendo courtesy" thing to it's absolute limit.

Arguably Tekken is second in line, but I guess at least one can say that Tag Team Tournament 2 is a notable game (even if it's still a spinoff) and it was released on Wii U, with a bunch of Nintendo costumes even.



I guess that poster is referring to how characters from series that's never been on a Nintendo platform have techically made some appearances on Nintendo hardware themselves. Like how we just got Kratos and Master Chief in Fortnite, even though obviously God of War and Halo themselves have never had a game published on Nintendo hardware.

Originally so did Cloud.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I feel like the rise in covid cases in japan has something to do with this silence

And Sakurai shared that photo with him and Kirby’s VO at a Kirby cafe…

oh no.

I’m actually paranoid now

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I'm rewatching this video here, but I can't find official evidence that this part is true. I'm checking the sources of the video rn as we speak. So far, I'm finding nothing

Why Masahiro Sakurai Put Joker in Super Smash Bros Ultimate

Persona 5’s Joker has finally arrived on Super Smash Bros Ultimate!This is big, exciting news for anyone who, like us, is a big fan of the Persona series of ...

www.youtube.com

6:34

I don't think think it's ever been stated that only games on Nintendo platforms can be in Smash. Implied? Maybe?

 

[Dinoman96]

Originally so did Cloud.

Cloud at least had the excuse of Final Fantasy itself having a large and long history on Nintendo platforms.

Remember that Sakurai said the reason Cloud was put into Smash to begin with was because of all the long standing requests from fans for there to be a Final Fantasy character on the roster. It's just, well, by far and away the most popular protagonist in the series was the one who wasn't associated with Nintendo platforms.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

And Sakurai shared that photo with him and Kirby’s VO at a Kirby cafe…

oh no.

I’m actually paranoid now

Whats that gotta do with anything?? Yeah, he should be wearinga mask if he wasnt wearing one but idk what that has to do with the tournament not being talked about on the twitter

 

[Theguy123]

Jokes on you. I’m about to leak the last character. Don’t tell sakurai or Nintendo though. His gimmick is his Kane and he comes with an echo being chase. you didn’t hear it from me

 

[volbound1700]

Cloud at least had the excuse of Final Fantasy itself having a large and long history on Nintendo platforms.

Remember that Sakurai said the reason Cloud was put into Smash to begin with was because of all the long standing requests from fans for there to be a Final Fantasy character on the roster. It's just, well, by far and away the most popular protagonist in the series was the one who wasn't associated with Nintendo platforms.

True but Cloud was one of those "must have" characters like Megaman, Pacman, etc. He is iconic to gaming so his inclusion was inevitable. I was surprised, though, that we got Sephiroth as well.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I don't think think it's ever been stated that only games on Nintendo platforms can be in Smash. Implied? Maybe?

Only characters that had an appearance on Nintendo consoles were eligible for the ballot. They backpedaled on this shortly afterward, which is where the "courtesy" thing comes from.

Either way it's not an official requirement at present.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Only characters that had an appearance on Nintendo consoles were eligible for the ballot. They backpedaled on this shortly afterward, which is where the "courtesy" thing comes from.

Either way it's not an official requirement at present.

Huh. I didn't know about the former statement so thank you for sharing that.
And yea, I had a feeling that it wasn't currently an official requirement.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Originally so did Cloud.

Not really. Because Cloud is still Final Fantasy, and FF is Nintendo as hell.

Although, so is MegaTen, so...shrug

 

[volbound1700]

Huh. I didn't know about the former statement so thank you for sharing that.
And yea, I had a feeling that it wasn't currently an official requirement.

I could be wrong but I think all of the characters have "some" representation on Nintendo systems (although in Cameo form).

The first to really make an appearance with little to no representation on Nintendo Systems was Cloud. I think Cloud had a cameo or reference on a couple of games that appeared on 2DS or 3DS systems (notable Kingdom Heart). Someone with more knowledge please correct me as I never owned the handhelds.

However, it was a stretch. The FF series itself was represented heavily on Nintendo Systems though.

Joker is another example. There have been some Persona spinoffs on Nintendo consoles that I believe he appeared in but his main title(s) is not on Nintendo Systems.

I am also not sure about Terry Bogard. Has he appeared on Nintendo Systems?

I think is a stretch. I do think it is frustrating sometimes for Nintendo fans who want third-party game franchises that were more regularly attendees on Nintendo Systems. However, I think the trend is that franchises that were traditionally Playstation Franchises are moving towards Nintendo Consoles in the near future due to Sony's pivot towards Western Audiences.

 

[FreeFox]

I am also not sure about Terry Bogard. Has he appeared on Nintendo Systems?

There is Capcom vs SNK 2.0 on the gamecube. Also on the Orochi saga collection for the wii.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

I am also not sure about Terry Bogard. Has he appeared on Nintendo Systems?

Considering all the KOF games (aside from 13 & 14) are on the Switch as well as the NeoGeo Pocket Color games he's in are on the Switch, then yes.

 

[PeridotGX]

Jokes on you. I’m about to leak the last character. Don’t tell sakurai or Nintendo though. His gimmick is his Kane and he comes with an echo being chase. you didn’t hear it from meView attachment 326912

if house can get in, this means good things for inanimate reps going forwards. i think green hill zone is a lock as the next playable sonic character.

 

[FreeFox]

Well, I now know who has my support for the next smash game:

 

[Sucumbio]

Has anyone ever compiled a list of all the current franchises in ultimate that have at least a playable character and then their franchise's "other merch" so to speak? So like

Mega Man has 1 character, 2 ATs, however many stages, tracks, spirits etc.

I know it's probably worthless info since content does not a good predictor make, but I'm just curious to see the info side by side. Once compiled, if I were to speculate based on the data it'd at least make for a cleaner argument rather than gut feeling.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Well, I now know who has my support for the next smash game:

Real talk, I love how you can get the **** beat out of you by Pokémon in that game.
They can do it in Smash (and the anime), only fair they get to do it in the main games.