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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Theguy123

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It’s funny and strange that the smash bro’s Japan page hasn’t posted about the event yet but Nintendo themselves did today and obviously we got the in game notification. Any chance we’re getting an announcement of some sort very soon.

I don’t think they’ve done this before. Even when they did it for the Mario gold spirits they posted a few hours later if I remember rightly after we had already got the notification. This is like a day later and till no announcement.
 

epicmartin7

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It’s funny and strange that the smash bro’s Japan page hasn’t posted about the event yet but Nintendo themselves did today and obviously we got the in game notification. Any chance we’re getting an announcement of some sort very soon.

I don’t think they’ve done this before. Even when they did it for the Mario gold spirits they posted a few hours later if I remember rightly after we had already got the notification. This is like a day later and till no announcement.
tbh, they could (and i really mean could loosely here) announce a Smash Direct tomorrow set for next week since they seem to be doing that a lot recently. But... that's just a guess.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I think they may wanna go out with a bang and reveal the last character and any last additional features

and you know, a big ol retrospective, like a grand fanfare
 

CannonStreak

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Now that I think about it, it would make sense to make a Sakurai Presents video outside an Nintendo Direct, like the Final Smash Direct for the last Smash game, the one with Bayonetta. I mean this is the last Smash character for Ultimate, right? You should know what I mean.
 

Sucumbio

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Now that I think about it, it would make sense to make a Sakurai Presents video outside an Nintendo Direct, like the Final Smash Direct for the last Smash game, the one with Bayonetta. I mean this is the last Smash character for Ultimate, right? You should know what I mean.
Agree, I expect the character to be revealed next month and a special finale Presents wrapping up smash ultimate as a whole and showcasing the new character.
 

The Rhythm Theif

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was just thinking, if the last character is from an M rated game or series then we’ll officially have an M rated character/series in base roster, pass 1 and pass 2. Kinda neat

simon being the M rated base roster character/series

joker being the M rated pass 1 character/series

and then whoever the M rated character/series is if they’re last
cough cough Tekken is rated M. cough cough
 

MarioRaccoon

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I remembered that at last smash 4 broadcast (early december 2015, when they revealed corrin and bayonetta) Sakurai talked about how many stages, characters, music and more smash wiiu + 3ds ended with all dlc and how great achievement it was, etc…

And a few days later he finished Ultimate project plan where he decided to include every previous fighter and mostly all stages.

That makes us think if behind the scenes Nintendo has already a roughly idea for future smash bros plans.
 

3BitSaurus

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I think they may wanna go out with a bang and reveal the last character and any last additional features

and you know, a big ol retrospective, like a grand fanfare
You know what, another cool idea for the last trailer would be to start with a gameplay segment (like Steve's) showcasing all Ultimate newcomers. Since this is the last character to join the game, I think it would be appropriate.
 

Dan Quixote

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I think they may wanna go out with a bang and reveal the last character and any last additional features

and you know, a big ol retrospective, like a grand fanfare
Fighting games in general don't do that with their DLC cycles in my experience. imo, it's probably because they don't want to draw attention to the "end" of DLC since they can't actually make any profit off that hype.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Fighting games in general don't do that with their DLC cycles in my experience. imo, it's probably because they don't want to draw attention to the "end" of DLC since they can't actually make any profit off that hype.
Counterargument: They already did this the last time they revealed the final character.
Counter-counterargument: They also had two characters to reveal at that time.
 

Hydreigonfan01

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I suspect the main reason why is balancing and post-release reception.

ARMS as an IP is built on and based around the idea of the playable characters fighting with really, really long, well, limbs. Like a certain Street Fighter character - Dhalsim - but with the stretchy arms being even more central than Dhalsim's stretchy limbs. This works in ARMS since everyone there has Dhalsim limbs... but not so in Smash.

This creates a major balancing act: it inherently means that an opponent approaching the ARMS character has to guess right once or twice in order to even approach the ARMS character. That's in neutral, where neither character has taken a hit. If the ARMS character lands a hit the opponent oftentimes has to go back to the drawing board. And that is the ARMS character guessing right once.

However, unlike Dhalsim - who tends to struggle up close - Smash's zoners generally also have fast escape / out of shield options. For example, Samus' Screw Attack comes out in 6 frames (1/10th of a second) - no human can react to it - the attack has to be anticipated. Link's Spin Attack is just one frame slower than Samus', but kills pretty early if the strong hit connects. Human reaction times are generally 1/6th of a second for sound (10 frames) and 1/4th of a second for sight (15 frames). That does not count the 5 frame buffer, nor online. Most attacks in Smash are so fast that people looking to shield will oftentimes do so preemptively.

Min Min also has this quick option - her Up Smash is currently at 8 frames, the same as Fox's (and pre-nerf it was one frame faster). That's her strongest kick. Oh and it has a reflector, meaning Min Min also has a quick answer for opponents trying to zone her back. Even if an opponent successfully approaches her (or a lot of zoners) it doesn't mean the approacher gains the advantage. Sure, she - like Link and Samus above - have a lot of endlag, but the start-up is what matters here.

Aaand I didn't mention the fact that the ARMS' long reach also ensure that ledge / off stage scenarios are a pain in the ass for a lot of opponents to deal with at minimum.

In FFAs an ARMS character may not be so inherently potent because FFAs have 2 or more opponents - that said, FFAs oftentimes have one or two players that try to zone / play defensive - whether it is to keep the lead as long as possible, stall for a KO opportunity, or just to fool around. Also, a lot of casual players have trouble dealing with projectiles or other zoning tools. That means that an ARMS character can also become an issue in casual environments - especially since the ARMS playing style might not be considered as exciting as say Falcon's or DK's by a lot of people.

With the above, it becomes imperative to make sure that the strengths are not overwhelming to the point of intense frustration (for casual or more seriously-inclined folks) and that the weaknesses are there still. They decided to go with Min Min being very vurnerable once she's hit / in disadvantage, very poor airspeed meaning she's prone to being juggled, and a recovery that can be intercepted / hit out of.

That said, by releasing the ARMS character first out of FP2 they get the most time possible to listen to feedback and adjust accordingly. I'm pretty sure they'd rather want to avoid a :4bayonetta: / :4cloud: scenario where two late comers prove so contentious / potentially overwhelming that the conversation starts to centre around those characters. Sm4sh's Bayo saw two patches post-release, Min Min has already seen four (five if you count Small Battlefield). It's also a rwason why I'm hoping that they go with at least three post-CP11 balance patches.

And considering how the reaction has been (especially in Japan, but also amongst quite a few Westerners)... yeah the reaction has reached Sakurai and co's ears. There's been quite a few minor nerfs handed out to try and make her strengths a bit less overwhelming and her weaknesses a bit more defined. They're evidently trying to keep her strengths intact (as they would try to with any ARMS character - they don't want Min Min to be especially weak, that'd defeat the point).

Yes, most of the other FP2 characters also break the mold, but they don't have the sheer range (and thus potentially a massive advantage over most of the cast) that the ARMS provide. Sephiroth's Masamune comes kinda close, but even then it's shorter and he was released after Min Min has been out for 5ish months. Meaning that they had a kinda sorta "blueprint" for Sephiroth.
I see someone watched MockRock’s recent video
 

SKX31

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I see someone watched MockRock’s recent video
Oh ****, I'm starting to sound like a Youtuber (TM). Please send help before it gets worse and I start plugging Raid Shadow Legends. :4pacman:

That's the one, yes. IMHO, he's very well-spoken about the stuff he covers and oftentimes presents a solid argument (which is why I built off of that and other videos of his for multiple posts), although he tends to miss some stuff that could be included and he's also prone to overemphasising some areas. Still worth a watch.

checks calendar
...

I thought there were several weeks until September.
The real CP11 is the friends we made along the way. [I dunno if this will age well or terribly if it turns out Sora is CP11.]
 
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Rie Sonomura

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Anyone remember what day of the week Smash 4’s Final Presentation was?
 

DarthEnderX

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Best represented? Yes. Most represented? No.

SNK only has 1 fighter and 1 stage. With a few miis and around 10 spirits. Not nearly as much as Capcom, for instance.

Thats okay though, because pretty much everything you’d want from SNK is already represented in some way.

This is why the notion of equal representation doesn’t make much sense in Smash. Capcom has like 7 big franchises that get consistent requests, it makes more sense they’d be given more representation than SNK.
Eh, I still think SNK deserves 2 more fighters(Metal Slug, SamSho).

But yeah, Capcom deserves, like, 12 more fighters(Ghosts n Goblins, Resident Evil, Darkstalkers, DMC, Strider, Okami, Ace Attorney, Final Fight, Viewtiful Joe, Bionic Commando, Gargoyle's Quest, Zero).
 

Þe 1 → Way

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Eh, I still think SNK deserves 2 more fighters(Metal Slug, SamSho).

But yeah, Capcom deserves, like, 12 more fighters(Ghosts n Goblins, Resident Evil, Darkstalkers, DMC, Strider, Okami, Ace Attorney, Final Fight, Viewtiful Joe, Bionic Commando, Gargoyle's Quest, Zero).
Thats very fair. I’d be down for a Samsho or Metal Slug Rep, though I’d prefer more KoF reps personally tbh. Geese or Rugal would be really cool.
 

DarthEnderX

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And they don't even reference Rera either, despite her appearing in pretty much the entire mainline SamSho games (the two 64 games included) either in person or as Purple Nakoruru.
I can't tell if this is a joke...

inb4 a final direct is announced but they show off a background color and Sakurai pose like what happened with Byleth's "???" and the internet proceeds to overspeculate
Sakurai be like:
1629332407916.png
 
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