Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Schnee117]

It's almost like "hype" is a subjective matter and raw sales data doesn't directly equate to arbitrary hype levels. Especially when it's being handled in such a grossly reductive manner because how dare people want characters they like.

 

[Theguy123]

FP11 trailer Idea. Eggman’s face appears on a gigantic screen. He says “I’ve come to make an announcement…… shadow the hedgehog has stolen my invite” and then we just see a bunch of fighters getting blasted into the air. Sonic looks up and in the distance sees shadow hovering with his jet boots

Make this happen Nintendo. Make this happen pleaseeeee

 

[Jocario Zero]

But the fact there’s three empty stage spots after the pass ends, makes me confident well at least see bonus stages without a character, like how it was with 4

did the bonus DLC stages in 4 come with music? I can’t recall if they did

Not 100% sure but I think the N64 stages didn't had their original songs in the base game.

Oh and I think the Mario Maker remix was new.

 

[volbound1700]

Oh, it's not just that they have to sell less than any random franchise in FP2, it's that they have to be less popular than all of them. Just like how FF is less popular than Minecraft, Tekken is less popular than FF, XC is less popular than Tekken.

I think the divide is that Smash Brothers includes fans of multiple genres and eras. For example, I would prefer characters that have been in gaming a while and originated in Arcade, NES, SNES, and N64 eras because that was my childhood. By the time Gamecube came out, I was in Highschool.

You also have multiple nations and regions of the globe that play Smash.

For USA region, characters like Doomguy, Crash, and Masterchief make ALOT of sense because they are iconic figures to us for gaming but maybe this isn't the case for Latin America or Japan. Meanwhile a character like Joker is not going to be iconic to me because I really don't play Playstation JRPG games. He doesn't fit my region and the time that I prefer in gaming. So of course, I would naturally want a Crash or Doomguy over him. However, I must respect that perhaps he is iconic to other people.

I never owned an SNK title either and played Terry. So I have no relation or affinity towards him.

Minecraft came off as childish to me (heck so did Pokemon) so I had no interest in it but need to respect it is one of the highest grossing franchises of all time.
I saw very different list of characters that should have been in the game based on my narrow view points and we are all guilty of this. The key is to just not expect anything and don't let all of these leakers hype you about a Crash being in the game when it won't never happen.

Heck, when I was a kid, I would have been more hyped for characters from Diablo, Starcraft, Ghostbusters, and TMNT being in the game . I have moved on. I got Sonic in the game, I got Megaman in the game, I got Pacman in the game, I got Simon Belmont in the game, and I got Banjo in the game. I am happy. With the exception of Megaman and Sonic, most of the most iconic franchises that I played as a kid have been represented all of the way back as Smash 64. Mario is probably my favorite all-time franchise and LOZ and Kirby are up there as well. Sonic is probably my favorite third-party franchise followed by Megaman.

 

[Inferno7]

FP11 trailer Idea. Eggman’s face appears on a gigantic screen. He says “I’ve come to make an announcement…… shadow the hedgehog has stolen my invite” and then we just see a bunch of fighters getting blasted into the air. Sonic looks up and in the distance sees shadow hovering with his jet boots

Make this happen Nintendo. Make this happen pleaseeeee

I'd become the happiest person alive

A game where you can have the coolest edgelords in gaming (Sephy and Shadow) duke it out together would be a dream come true

 

[Momotsuki]

But the fact there’s three empty stage spots after the pass ends, makes me confident well at least see bonus stages without a character, like how it was with 4

did the bonus DLC stages in 4 come with music? I can’t recall if they did

I hope you're right but Smash has a habit of just leaving its menus to rot in hell...

 

[Guynamednelson]

And ARMS is bigger than Minecraft. Gotcha.

Still doesn't mean CP11 can be a big third party. Again, if there are no rules, why is "finales can't be hype" the only fan rule that's allowed to be broken?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Say, I wasn't keeping track, did we ever find out what the next event is?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Say, I wasn't keeping track, did we ever find out what the next event is?

Spirits with big mouths.

 

[volbound1700]

I dont understand this notion that all third party companies should be balanced and the one with the least content should obviously deserve more. Like none of them are equal in any regard. Some have more music than others. Some have gotten no new fighters for DLC. Some have lots of mi costumes. Not to mention that the company with the least representation in this arbirtrary arguments is always left out, SNK.

I can see your point. My main point was that Sega isn't necessarily the most underrepresented. They just seem that way because they haven't gotten a character since DLC pact #1. Capcom and Konami hasn't received anything in the DLC pacts.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Still doesn't mean CP11 can be a big third party. Again, if there are no rules, why is "finales can't be hype" the only fan rule that's allowed to be broken?

Where exactly did I say no other fan rules could be broken? FP2 has done nothing but shatter fan rules thus far.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Where exactly did I say no other fan rules could be broken? FP2 has done nothing but shatter fan rules thus far.

When people say "anything can happen", "there are no rules", etc., they aren't really showing interest in breaking any supposed rules imposed on the roster besides "finales can't be like steve and sephiroth".

 

[Theguy123]

Guys guys guys, come on now, there’s no such thing as rules. If you find a character unlikely just say so. There’s no need to state something as a rule or fact. I thought all this was already established.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Still doesn't mean CP11 can be a big third party. Again, if there are no rules, why is "finales can't be hype" the only fan rule that's allowed to be broken?

I think the only people who care that much about keeping “no AT promotions” etc. intact are the same people who were rude and crapped on others for wanting Spirit characters (i.e. some trolls on Twitter and in YouTube comments, and people who took their observed patterns way too seriously).

 

[Cosmic77]

At the very least, I feel like Kazuya will end up being the bigger reveal between the last two characters. I can't imagine why they'd skip out on revealing a more exciting reveal when they have their largest audience of the year.

Honestly though, this last character is doomed to be controversial. Unless the character is someone ridiculously popular, opinions will be all over the place on how this character compares to Sephiroth or Min Min in terms of how hype they are. A lot of people feel like Bayo was a low note for Smash 4 to end on, others feel like she was a high note. The same will probably repeat itself here.

 

[Perkilator]

I think the only people who care that much about keeping “no AT promotions” etc. intact are the same people who were rude and crapped on others for wanting Spirit characters (i.e. some trolls on Twitter and in YouTube comments, and people who took their observed patterns way too seriously).

Actually, I supported Min Min and berated Spring Man.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

When people say "anything can happen", "there are no rules", etc., they aren't really showing interest in breaking any supposed rules imposed on the roster besides "finales can't be like steve and sephiroth".

Cool, but what exactly does that have to do with discussion?

We talk about a lot of fan rules. Assists, Miis, etc.

So far the only solid rule I can remember about Smash is that characters come from video games.

 

[Momotsuki]

"finales can't be like steve and sephiroth".

"Finales can't be like Steve and Sephiroth" kind of seems like something you just made up? Hype is extremely subjective. My highs of this pass won't be the same as somebody else's highs of this pass. You can't say Smash "ends on a low note" as if that's how everyone would receive it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Does anyone like the idea of a pokemon trainer based on the one of legends arceus?

No. I hope nothing like Pokemon Trainer ever happens again.

3 characters worth of dev resources, wasted on one Pokemon rep...

 

[Guynamednelson]

"Finales can't be like Steve and Sephiroth" kind of seems like something you just made up? Hype is extremely subjective.

Just because someone liked both Bayonetta and Steve doesn't mean they have the same amount of hype surrounding them. Bayonetta was never going to be something that crashed Twitter, even if she was first revealed at E3 for Ultimate.

 

[volbound1700]

At the very least, I feel like Kazuya will end up being the bigger reveal between the last two characters. I can't imagine why they'd skip out on revealing a more exciting reveal when they have their largest audience of the year.

Honestly though, this last character is doomed to be controversial. Unless the character is someone ridiculously popular, opinions will be all over the place on how this character compares to Sephiroth or Min Min in terms of how hype they are. A lot of people feel like Bayo was a low note for Smash 4 to end on, others feel like she was a high note. The same will probably repeat itself here.

Yeah, unless it is Doomguy, Ryu Hayabusa, Masterchief, or Crash, most of the USA gamers will probably be upset. I don't think any of those four have a shot at being the last DLC option but you never know.

 

[N3ON]

"Finales can't be like Steve and Sephiroth" kind of seems like something you just made up? Hype is extremely subjective. My highs of this pass won't the be the same as somebody else's highs of this pass. You can't say Smash "ends on a low note" as if that's how everyone would receive it.

People refer to the aggregate reception with those comments, not individual opinion. Individual opinion is subjective, but the aggregate response less so, as it's formed by the cumulation of reactions.

 

[Dinoman96]

At the very least, I feel like Kazuya will end up being the bigger reveal between the last two characters. I can't imagine why they'd skip out on revealing a more exciting reveal when they have their largest audience of the year.

Maybe because Kazuya was done first?

Sometimes Nintendo reveals characters when they're ready, not when they're most "hype". Cloud was the biggest Smash 4 reveal by far...and he ended up being revealed in a random November Direct that year. Likewise, it's very likely Min Min was intended to be the only reveal at E3 last year had it not been for COVID.

 

[Inferno7]

Guys guys guys, come on now, there’s no such thing as rules. If you find a character unlikely just say so. There’s no need to state something as a rule or fact. I thought all this was already established.

Yeah I find like stating your opinion as fact these days is borderline ridiculous

We just got characters no one expected like 5 times in a row. Half the people thought FF7, Tekken and Minecraft were out yet here we are.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yeah I find like stating your opinion as fact these days is borderline ridiculous

We just got characters no one expected like 5 times in a row. Half the people thought FF7, Tekken and Minecraft were out yet here we are.

Isn't that proof that Smash WON'T end with a bang? Too many people are focusing on them "saving the best for last", so guess what?

 

[Cosmic77]

Maybe because Kazuya was done first?

Sometimes Nintendo reveals characters when they're ready, not when they're most "hype". Cloud was the biggest Smash 4 reveal by far...and he ended up being revealed in a random November Direct that year. Likewise, it's very likely Min Min was intended to be the only reveal at E3 last year had it not been for COVID.

They usually order the production of the DLC so that "bigger" characters line up with important events. I'd assume that's why Joker, Hero, Banjo, Sephiroth, and Kazuya were conveniently shown in either a E3 or TGA presentation. Meanwhile, Byleth, Pyra, and an ARMS character were all shown/teased in either general Nintendo Directs or a Sakurai Presents that wasn't tied down to anything special. The only exceptions are Terry, who was shown in Banjo's presentation, and Steve, who we'll likely never know if he was intended for E3.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Actually, I supported Min Min and berated Spring Man.

well I know you don’t like the idea of AT promotions but I meant the people who seemed like they didn’t want to allow others to believe stuff like that could happen as he seemed to sorta imply, even though most people don’t seem to care.

 

[volbound1700]

They usually order the production of the DLC so that "bigger" characters line up with important events. I'd assume that's why Joker, Hero, Banjo, Sephiroth, and Kazuya were conveniently shown in either a E3 or TGA presentation. Meanwhile, Byleth, Pyra, and an ARMS character were all shown/teased in either general Nintendo Directs or a Sakurai Presents that wasn't tied down to anything special. The only exceptions are Terry, who was shown in Banjo's presentation, and Steve, who we'll likely never know if he was intended for E3.

Keep in mind that Bigger and Non-Bigger character is kind of based on perspective as well. However, I see the trend. It seems to support my belief that the final FP will be first-party rep. The only third-parties that I could potentially see is the ones being discussed earlier from Capcom, Konami, Sega, etc. or maybe Rayman due to all the weirdness surrounding him. (Content included in Smash 4 and Ultimate, Ubisoft Mii Costume set that did NOT have Rayman, etc.).

However, if you asked me to put money on it, I would go with First Party Rep.

 

[Dinoman96]

The big reason why I now doubt Steve was ever intended for E3 is because...what would the reveal schedule been like afterwards?

Like say in a COVID-less world, they revealed Min Min and Steve together in the same E3. But what would of they done for the September Direct? Reveal Sephiroth there instead of TGA? Swap things around and reveal Pyra/Mythra there while still revealing Sephiroth at TGA? Just flat out make us wait half a year after Min/Steve for TGA?

Personally I think Min Min was gonna be the sole reveal for E3 last year, and Steve was gonna be revealed in the September Direct. It's been noted that Steve was seemingly supposed to come out at the end of September that year. Since Byleth, every DLC character has come out in close proximity to their original reveal, so it all adds up.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Isn't that proof that Smash WON'T end with a bang? Too many people are focusing on them "saving the best for last", so guess what?

This is a false equivalence.

Minecraft, Tekken, and FF7 are all video game series. Ending on a high note is an idea.

Ending on a high note is also seen as a possibility, not a definitive event. Minecraft, FF, and Tekken were all seen as definitively out at the time because of Microsoft getting Banjo, FF getting shafted with content, and Tekken getting a mii.

The only thing they have in common is community expectation. Which even still doesn’t work as we aren’t magically destined to guess wrong everytime.

 

[Cosmic77]

The big reason why I now doubt Steve was ever intended for E3 is because...what would the reveal schedule been like afterwards?

Like say in a COVID-less world, they revealed Min Min and Steve together in the same E3. But what would of they done for the September Direct? Reveal Sephiroth there instead of TGA? Swap things around and reveal Pyra/Mythra there while still revealing Sephiroth at TGA? Just flat out make us wait half a year after Min/Steve for TGA?

Personally I think Min Min was gonna be the sole reveal for E3 last year, and Steve was gonna be revealed in the September Direct. It's been noted that Steve was seemingly supposed to come out at the end of September that year. Every FP2 character has come out in close proximity to their original reveal, so it all adds up.

I agree, but there are also plenty people who are willing to die on the hill that says, "Steve was going to be teased at E3 and released a few months afterward."

In the grand scheme of things, I guess it really doesn't matter. Steve was a complicated character, so it could've gone both ways. Even without Steve, we still have nine other characters with concrete releases to assess.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

At any rate, IF we were to get the final presentation next week, would we get the info tomorrow morning or so? Tomorrow being Thursday

 

[Dinoman96]

You know thinking about it, it really is weird how Min Min/ARMS was the opener for FP2. Like you look at the first pass and there's a pretty clear trajectory: kick it off with a cool surprising third party pick with Joker at TGA and get people immediately on board for FP1, then escalate the hype even further at E3 with Hero and freaking Banjo-Kazooie, and then start to slowly wind things down after everyone's bought the pass with a more low key reveal at the September Direct in the form of Terry and then finish the pass with yet another FE rep lol.

But with FP2 they made the weird decision of starting it off with an ARMS character of all things, and not only that, but it seems like they were planning on just having her be the sole reveal for E3 that year, which just seems so much more low key in comparison to 2018 (where the game was fully announced with everyone returning + Ridley) or 2019 (which again had Hero and Banjo). Meanwhile Steve, unarguably the biggest character of the pass and really the biggest Ultimate newcomer of them all, was also seemingly just planned on being revealed in an ordinary Nintendo Direct in September.

Just seems kinda odd they didn't switch things around and try to prioritise Steve as the first FP2 character revealed at E3 (before COVID oops), and then save Min Min for September.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Why the **** are you all even bothering to argue with someone who admits he's desperate for his most wanted when he's acting like his most wanted, who happens to be considered hype by many Smash circles including this one, is considered absolute garbage and that nobody wants him?

 

[jadetheseer]

I’ve said this before but honestly I’m gonna roll the die and say that the last character revealed is going to be a Resident Evil character, mostly likely Jill. I have no “evidence” besides the fact that CAPCOM has been promoting Resident Evil very heavily recently it’s in the public consciousness, and since we’ve gotten FF7, Minecraft & Tekken... Resident Evil is one of the biggest franchises both in the states and overseas. Yes we’ve already gotten a ton of CAPCOM Mii Costumes but like how the characters that were assigned with Kazuya were mostly random it could just as easily be more DLC costumes for characters people really wanted or just whatever Nintendo wants to promote. Yes, I know about the Spirit Battles and everything but cmon, I think nothing aside from maybe assist trophies really de-confirm at this point.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

I dont understand this notion that all third party companies should be balanced and the one with the least content should obviously deserve more. Like none of them are equal in any regard. Some have more music than others. Some have gotten no new fighters for DLC. Some have lots of mi costumes. Not to mention that the company with the least representation in this arbirtrary arguments is always left out, SNK.

SNK is one of the best represented companies in the game.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

I’ve said this before but honestly I’m gonna roll the die and say that the last character revealed is going to be a Resident Evil character, mostly likely Jill. I have no “evidence” besides the fact that CAPCOM has been promoting Resident Evil very heavily recently it’s in the public consciousness, and since we’ve gotten FF7, Minecraft & Tekken... Resident Evil is one of the biggest franchises both in the states and overseas. Yes we’ve already gotten a ton of CAPCOM Mii Costumes but like how the characters that were assigned with Kazuya were mostly random it could just as easily be more DLC costumes for characters people really wanted or just whatever Nintendo wants to promote. Yes, I know about the Spirit Battles and everything but cmon, I think nothing aside from maybe assist trophies really de-confirm at this point.

Post-release spirit events do deconfirm, especially ones that took place only a year and a half ago. Only base game spirits have been promoted, and that was content decided on years ago. I do get Capcom heavily promoting the series lately, but not everything leads to Smash.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

SNK is one of the best represented companies in the game.

Best represented? Yes. Most represented? No.

SNK only has 1 fighter and 1 stage. With a few miis and around 10 spirits. Not nearly as much as Capcom, for instance.

Thats okay though, because pretty much everything you’d want from SNK is already represented in some way.

This is why the notion of equal representation doesn’t make much sense in Smash. Capcom has like 7 big franchises that get consistent requests, it makes more sense they’d be given more representation than SNK.

 

[Theguy123]

You know thinking about it, it really is weird how Min Min/ARMS was the opener for FP2. Like you look at the first pass and there's a pretty clear trajectory: kick it off with a cool surprising third party pick with Joker at TGA and get people immediately on board for FP1, then escalate the hype even further at E3 with Hero and freaking Banjo-Kazooie, and then start to slowly wind things down after everyone's bought the pass with a more low key reveal at the September Direct in the form of Terry and then finish the pass with yet another FE rep lol.

But with FP2 they made the weird decision of starting it off with an ARMS character of all things, and not only that, but it seems like they were planning on just having her be the sole reveal for E3 that year, which just seems so much more low key in comparison to 2018 (where the game was fully announced with everyone returning + Ridley) or 2019 (which again had Hero and Banjo). Meanwhile Steve, unarguably the biggest character of the pass and really the biggest Ultimate newcomer of them all, was also seemingly just planned on being revealed in an ordinary Nintendo Direct in September.

Just seems kinda odd they didn't switch things around and try to prioritise Steve as the first FP2 character revealed at E3 (before COVID oops), and then save Min Min for September.

i thought sephiroth was meant to be first. Didn’t Nintendo accidentally post an image that had sephiroth as challenger pack 6 just before his presentation and then quickly deleted it or am I miss remembering things

 

[MarioRaccoon]

A hype/popular request/big character reveal now can helped smash for their last “big” holiday season. This is in order to keep momentum for this Fiscal Year.

Its highly likely that smash sales will fall down quickly next FY as there is no more mayor support and probably it’s LTD will reached its saturation point.

Thats one of the main reasons why, for Nintendo, it isn’t viable to add more DLC fighters.