Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Cap'n Jack]

The whole "Minecraft led to Banjo-Kazooie" seems more like Minecraft itself is the big reason why Nintendo overall teamed up with Microsoft.

Steve is not related to this factor, though obviously him being in is due to how big Minecraft is. It wasn't hard to see coming(honestly, I found it obvious without Verge's influence).

I think someone else mentioned it before, but I think it was more so Microsoft changing its business philosophy than Minecraft itself leading to the better relationship. This new philosophy of wanting to focus on getting their games to more platforms led to them being easier to work with which in turn led to it being easier to get their characters in Smash. Banjo got in due to fan demand, and Steve got it due to pressure from Nintendo on Sakurai to put him in the game. The reason for that pressure is up for speculation as far as I am aware.

 

[RoboFist]

You don't know your console wars history very well then. If you've read into how the original Playstation was planned to be an SNES addon before it became its own separate console, and the reasons WHY negotiations between Nintendo and Sony ended up breaking down, it should be crystal clear why Nintendo is never going to enmesh themselves with Sony in such a manner ever again.

That's why Cloud's reveal is still the most shocking one to me. FFVII was only possible because of how badly Nintendo screwed over both Sony and Squaresoft. Sony not only promised Square complete creative freedom, but also insisted that they help publish the game, allowed them to port it to PC in the future, and even gave them steep discounts on necessary development kits/hardware.

They basically hatched a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" scheme to screw over their ex.

And trust me, as much as magazine covers and TV commercials tried to get you to think Crash was Mario's biggest threat, he wasn't. Even in elementary school, kids were saying, "Yo, have you heard of Final Fantasy VII? So-and-so just got it yesterday, says it's better than Ocarina of Time, the cut scenes are insane, etc."

Nintendo was so impossibly butthurt about the whole thing (along with the aftermath, including the huge spike in PS1 sales as well as Enix also dropping Nintendo to work with Sony), that the president of NoA at the time said that, "most of our customers wouldn't want or appreciate such a slow and tedious game such as Final Fantasy VII." Like, damn.

Even going into the Gamecube era, Nintendo was extremely salty about their break-up with Square. They'd sooner work with Sega, which was saying something.

FFVII was like an unstoppable monster of Nintendo's own accidental creation. To quote Max Dood, this:

really did feel impossible.

 

[Dinoman96]

Even going into the Gamecube era, Nintendo was extremely salty about their break-up with Square. They'd sooner work with Sega, which was saying something.

Eh? Nintendo and Square-Enix did a lot of things with each other going into the GCN/GBA era. One of the most notable examples being Crystal Chronicles, which was originally a Nintendo published game WW.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Eh? Nintendo and Square-Enix did a lot of things with each other going into the GCN/GBA era. One of the most notable examples being Crystal Chronicles, which was originally a Nintendo published game WW.

Also, I think there were a few Kingdom Heart handheld games too no?

 

[chocolatejr9]

So if the rumours of XC3 are true, this scene in XC2 is massive foreshadowing.

Spoiler

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Y'know what? If Rex and Pyra die before the events of Xenoblade 3, I'd be okay with it. That is PERFECT foreshadowing.

 

[Dinoman96]

Also, I think there were a few Kingdom Heart handheld games too no?

Yes, and there was also stuff like Sword of Mana and ports of older FF games.

 

[RoboFist]

Eh? Nintendo and Square-Enix did a lot of things with each other going into the GCN/GBA era. One of the most notable examples being Crystal Chronicles, which was originally a Nintendo published game WW.

To be fair, that was out of necessity/desperation. Square put practically all of their eggs into their Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within basket, which was such an enormous financial disaster that they basically had to walk back to Nintendo with their tail between their legs. Also, while this may not seem like a big deal to us, Square made certain that Crystal Chronicles was not a core Final Fantasy title. They weren't even sure it was going to work, and they certainly didn't foresee a profitable spin-off franchise that they'd be working on for years afterwards.

Also, here's something funny I just found out: even with that small caveat, before production even got started, Square made sure that the team working on Crystal Chronicles was a blatant subsidiary of their production development team. So they created a shell company for the sole purpose of working with Nintendo again.

And by the time Chain of Memories came out, the two companies had worked out a decent business relationship again. Y'know, because money and those types of partnerships just make more sense at the end of the day. But they didn't exactly team up creatively on anything for a long time after that fallout.

Actually, honest question, when's the last time Nintendo partnered up with Square-Enix for something on the same collaborative level as Super Mario RPG? I wanted to say the original TWEWY, but a huge chunk of that was Jupiter, as well.

 

[SKX31]

Kratos is in MK Armaggedan (including the Wii versions)

Heck who knows, maybe Sony wants to push Aloy or someone else form their first party batch as hard as they can. Introduce more people to their games.

Wait a goddamned sec, wasn't Kratos - yeah he was console exclusive in 9.

Your overall point is valid, but that's not the best example.

FFVII was like an unstoppable monster of Nintendo's own accidental creation. To quote Max Dood, this:

View attachment 325804

really did feel impossible.

Feels even weirder knowing that Cloud's reveal would one day lead up to...

That's right, Sephiroth item combos (yes, MKLeo did catch the boomerang that flew in a full circle).

Everyone should dread this.

Also, I think there were a few Kingdom Heart handheld games too no?

Primarily Chain of Memrories, yes, but also the DS 358/2 days. Later on Dream Drop Distance (3DS). Not numbered games per se (and as such not main games), but all of those + Melody of Memories all play a part in the KH story. (Which is one reason why it was so difficult to follow prior to all the compilations.)

 

[chocolatejr9]

To be fair, that was out of necessity/desperation. Square put practically all of their eggs into their Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within basket, which was such an enormous financial disaster that they basically had to walk back to Nintendo with their tail between their legs. Also, while this may not seem like a big deal to us, Square made certain that Crystal Chronicles was not a core Final Fantasy title. They weren't even sure it was going to work, and they certainly didn't foresee a profitable spin-off franchise that they'd be working on for years afterwards.

Also, here's something funny I just found out: even with that small caveat, before production even got started, Square made sure that the team working on Crystal Chronicles was a blatant subsidiary of their production development team. So they created a shell company for the sole purpose of working with Nintendo again.

And by the time Chain of Memories came out, the two companies had worked out a decent business relationship again. Y'know, because money and those types of partnerships just make more sense at the end of the day. But they didn't exactly team up creatively on anything for a long time after that fallout.

Moral of the story: sometimes, it's best to stick with Nintendo.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Nintendo was so impossibly butthurt about the whole thing (along with the aftermath, including the huge spike in PS1 sales as well as Enix also dropping Nintendo to work with Sony), that the president of NoA at the time said that, "most of our customers wouldn't want or appreciate such a slow and tedious game such as Final Fantasy VII." Like, damn.

Well, they're not partially wrong about that. As fun as Final Fantasy 7 is, - and believe me, it's fun - it's also rather slow and it can get boring after a while. Yeah, it's fun if you're trying to 100% it, but I'd rather try to 105% Crash Bandicoot: Warped than try to 100% Final Fantasy 7.

But yeah: I remember losing my sanity over Cloud's reveal trailer in Smash 4. And to this day, even with the Sephiroth reveal trailer, I don't think the hype that emerged from Cloud's reveal can even be topped. My hype levels were at their absolute max.

 

[Dinoman96]

To be fair, that was out of necessity/desperation. Square put practically all of their eggs into their Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within basket, which was such an enormous financial disaster that they basically had to walk back to Nintendo with their tail between their legs. Also, while this may not seem like a big deal to us, Square made certain that Crystal Chronicles was not a core Final Fantasy title. They weren't even sure it was going to work, and they certainly didn't foresee a profitable spin-off franchise that they'd be working on for years afterwards.

Also, here's something funny I just found out: even with that small caveat, before production even got started, Square made sure that the team working on Crystal Chronicles was a blatant subsidiary of their production development team. So they created a shell company for the sole purpose of working with Nintendo again.

And by the time Chain of Memories came out, the two companies had worked out a decent business relationship again. Y'know, because money and those types of partnerships just make more sense at the end of the day. But they didn't exactly team up creatively on anything for a long time after that fallout.

I was reading the Wikipedia article for CC after posting that and it mentions that apparently, Sony actually purchased 19% of Square's shares during that period. And when Square wanted to partner up with Nintendo again, Sony agreed to it as long as it wouldn't impact development of titles on PS2. Pretty wild stuff.

Square-Enix and Nintendo definitely got cozy with each other again by the DS era which saw a whole truckload of SE games, old and new. Even the Wii had a decent handful of SE published/developed stuff.

Actually, honest question, when's the last time Nintendo partnered up with Square-Enix for something on the same collaborative level as Super Mario RPG? I wanted to say the original TWEWY, but a huge chunk of that was Jupiter, as well.

Mario Hoops 3 on 3
Fortune Street (on both Wii and DS)
Mario Sports Mix

Do you count those?

 

[CannonStreak]

I just can't imagine the last character for Smash Bros. Ultimate being one that was predicted, guessed or expected. What about you, guys?

 

[Guynamednelson]

I just can't imagine the last character for Smash Bros. Ultimate being one that was predicted, guessed or expected. What about you, guys?

Oh, I can think it would be one that was predicted.

In 2018.

 

[ARandomFruit]

Primarily Chain of Memories, yes, but also the DS 358/2 days. Later on Dream Drop Distance (3DS). Not numbered games per se (and as such not main games), but all of those + Melody of Memories all play a part in the KH story. (Which is one reason why it was so difficult to follow prior to all the compilations.)

There is also Kingdom Hearts Re: coded for the DS. and while that did start as a mobile game you can't get it anymore on there so the DS is the only way to play the game now. That game also plays a part in the KH story although not as much as any other game for what I've heard.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Kratos wasn't in MK Armageddon, but MK9, and only the PS3 Version.

Ah, thank you for the correction.


Same to you SKX31 , saw your similar comment at the last second haha

 

[RoboFist]

I was reading the Wikipedia article for CC after posting that and it mentions that apparently, Sony actually purchased 19% of Square's shares during that period. And when Square wanted to partner up with Nintendo again, Sony agreed to it as long as it wouldn't impact development of titles on PS2. Pretty wild stuff.

Square-Enix and Nintendo definitely got cozy with each other again by the DS era which saw a whole truckload of SE games, old and new. Even the Wii had a decent handful of SQ published/developed stuff.

It's an absolutely crazy story. Yeah, the financial loss from Spirits Within was so drastic that it halted the merger with Enix and almost killed Squaresoft. Sony purchasing those shares and dumping some money into the studio really helped them stay afloat to finish FFX and Kingdom Hearts, which completely saved them.

What a crazy saga. I'd love to see a book or miniseries retelling this console war. There's so much more boardroom intrigue and the stakes seem higher because the two companies are more interlinked. Not to mention Microsoft pops in out of nowhere and Nintendo just lets them buy one of their biggest development studios.

What an insane time for gaming haha. I doubt we'll ever see a series of shake-ups that monumental again.

Mario Hoops 3 on 3
Fortune Street (on both Wii and DS)
Mario Sports Mix

Do you count those?

Huh...I completely forgot that those were SE joints. Weird haha. I guess that answers my question.

 

[DarthEnderX]

2022 is gonna be a great year for the Switch

BOTW2
Splatoon 3
(potentially) XC3
Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope

and definitely more

It's going to be a wasteland. A year without Smash announcements...

 

[GilTheGreat19]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashBrosUltimate/comments/p14b1q
Just wanted to share this beauty.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

At this point, I'd be curious if the lack of more interesting and exclusive ventures on Switch by Square Enix is because of Nintendo, SE, or both. Given that Capcom's gradually embraced the system via MH Rise, and even Konami's managed to have the second best selling third party Switch game in Japan (beaten only by MH Rise), that Square Enix hasn't really managed many stand out titles outside Bravely Default 2, and the timed exclusivity of Octopath Traveler is a bit surprising.

If anything the FF Pixel Remaster collection being limited to PC/Mobile (when there's clear profit to be had just on Switch alone) really paints the company either as one that basically sees the system as another variation of the 3DS (albeit one that can play the older 3D Final Fantasy titles) or as one that Nintendo isn't overtly interested much beyond sequels or ports to DS/3DS titles. Its an odd thought that by the Switch's 5th birthday, there will have been two Ubisoft-Nintendo collaborations but nothing on that scale from the likes of SE.

Well, at least we'll always have the Switch version of Balan Wonderworld.

 

[Dinoman96]

At this point, I'd be curious if the lack of more interesting and exclusive ventures on Switch by Square Enix is because of Nintendo, SE, or both. Given that Capcom's gradually embraced the system via MH Rise, and even Konami's managed to have the second best selling third party Switch game in Japan (beaten only by MH Rise), that Square Enix hasn't really managed many stand out titles outside Bravely Default 2, and the timed exclusivity of Octopath Traveler is a bit surprising.

If anything the FF Pixel Remaster collection being limited to PC/Mobile (when there's clear profit to be had just on Switch alone) really paints the company either as one that basically sees the system as another variation of the 3DS (albeit one that can play the older 3D Final Fantasy titles) or as one that Nintendo isn't overtly interested much beyond sequels or ports to DS/3DS titles. Its an odd thought that by the Switch's 5th birthday, there will have been two Ubisoft-Nintendo collaborations but nothing on that scale from the likes of SE.

Well, at least we'll always have the Switch version of Balan Wonderworld.

You're also forgetting Project Triangle Strategy.

 

[pupNapoleon]

same. It’s just a theory going around that can’t really be debunked until the last character is revealed. We can kind of get the idea that they were just trying to be consistent with pass 1or that tekken fits the bill, However there’s nothing concrete to disprove it until that final reveal which is honestly frustrating because the thought of knowing the last character has 70% been leaked as early as around min min is frustrating. We’ve done soo well to not leak any of the characters in this pass so far so it would be frustrating to know that a character was leaked as early as min min because Nintendo decided to be weird.

I definitely do not get the idea that Nintendo is, "trying to be consistent with pass 1," if that means make it parallel.
I also have no idea which character was, "70 percent leaked as early as Min Min."

 

[Theguy123]

I definitely do not get the idea that Nintendo is, "trying to be consistent with pass 1," if that means make it parallel.
I also have no idea which character was, "70 percent leaked as early as Min Min."

I probably should’ve worded it better. What I meant was that M theory has been around since min min was revealed (I think or it might of been since Steve) so people have always assumed an M rated character is Happening at some point in this pass. A lot still do. If a M rated character happens then it would be disappointing knowing it leaked around min min’s reveal.

it’s also not that hard to narrow down what M rated character it could be. Verge said koei tecmo held negotiations for FP2, then you have smt being talked about and a few others that get brought up a lot such as PSO2 and doomguy.

the part about making the pass consistent with pass 1 was about the logos not appearing since they Got rid of the logos off pass 1 towards byleth’s reveal.

 

[FreeFox]

I probably should’ve worded it better. What I meant was that M theory has been around since min min was revealed (I think or it might of been since Steve) so people have always assumed an M rated character is Happening at some point in this pass. A lot still do. If a M rated character happens then it would be disappointing knowing it leaked around min min’s reveal.

it’s also not that hard to narrow down what M rated character it could be. Verge said koei tecmo held negotiations for FP2, then you have smt being talked about and a few others that get brought up a lot such as PSO2 and doomguy.

the part about making the pass consistent with pass 1 was about the logos not appearing since they Got rid of the logos off pass 1 towards byleth’s reveal.

The thing that is weirder to me is that this change only applies to the western side of things since the japanese version do keep the logos up. I kind of wonder why they decided to change things up but only for this side of things.

 

[DanganZilla5]

So if the rumours of XC3 are true, this scene in XC2 is massive foreshadowing.

Spoiler

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Spoiler

As much as I would like Pyra/Mythra to be in Xenoblade 3, the thought of them outliving Rex hurts me. I hope that Pyra gets her wish of being able to die naturally at the same time as Rex does. This would also confirm my theory that the Architect gave blades human lifespans as part of his final deed.

But yeah either way in hindsight this scene will be even more sad and it's like god dammit this game already gets me incredibly emotional.

 

[MaplePie]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashBrosUltimate/comments/p14b1q
Just wanted to share this beauty.

I really do wonder if we are getting one more villain.

 

[kylexv]

Pic of the Day:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I really do wonder if we are getting one more villain.

Me too
I got some Ideas

Diablo
M. Bison
Dr. Eggman
Shadow
Shao Khan
Nemesis (Resident Evil)
Wesker
The Lich King

 

[FreeFox]

Pic of the Day:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Only one thing to say: "Leave it to me"

 

[AinsOoalGown]

Actually, honest question, when's the last time Nintendo partnered up with Square-Enix for something on the same collaborative level as Super Mario RPG? I wanted to say the original TWEWY, but a huge chunk of that was Jupiter, as well.

They had tons of Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy crossovers with Mario AND Nintendo helped publish certain Dragon Quest games in the west, "the" jrpg so already a much bigger deal than a side gig from a time Nintendo didnt knew how to make their own rpgs. All the rest of your posts are also very wrong (and the previous user was also quite right in his example) since you seem to believe huge corporations are small petty people with struggles and vendettas like a soap opera. They are corporations who only care for profit in their sales, thats it, not some heroine fighting against a mean ex out of "desperation" wtf. Sony gave huge advantages to Squeenix because that was a proven studio who would sell in a position they could produce a hit for them, while they needed such hit asap, it was a mutually productive deal, not some "exes fighting against an enemy" or whatever cringe worthy fanfic.

The previous post also ignore the issues nintendo would face in their original contract with sony in regards to their series/properties ownership and use. To instead paint them as imaginary super villains who were mean and "screwed" the poor corporation. No, they were corporations who made a deal, one tried to take advantage on the contract to attain the other's ips, nintendo didnt managed to fix their contract in time with them for some reason so the whole thing was dropped, similar things happen all the time in all industries, making hard to find where its incompetence or something didnt worked out etc, sony already had a vested interest in the market and now the know how so they pressed forward with another project. Anyone treating this as some fanfic to villify or heroify some billionaire corporation (specially sony who was still fresh from all the corrupt nasty stuff they did in the Music Industry) may want to recheck the way they deal with and interpret reality, because that cant be healthy, as rude as it sounds, its usually the same people who treat Nintendo as their exes ironically enough, due not liking the recent entry of an older series etc.

 

[ryuryunonoroi]

I am familiar with this.
They were working together to make an in-build CD Drive within the SNES. I understand how Nintendo announced out of nowhere they'd work with Dutch company Phillips and not Sony out of fear that Sony would take advantage of the deal and try to enter the console industry with too much power.
Correct me if I misinterpreted this situation

It's not quite that simple. Although the official details will probably never come to light, rumor has it that Sony insisted on a clause that would have granted them special publishing rights over Nintendo IPs published on the Playstation addon, possibly opening the door to a corporate takeover down the line. Considering this is the same Sony that swamped the King of Pop himself with frivolous litigation involving claims of pedophilia just so that he would be forced to settle and sell Sony the rest of his rights to his own music catalog, I'd say Nintendo made the right call dropping them like a hot potato.

You talking about the Crunchyroll buyout? Because yeah, I expect that to go through.

But for what it's worth, a good chunk of companies that were loyal to Sony have jumped ship to Nintendo in recent years, most likely due to stuff like the censorship policies.

A good chunk jumped ship? You seem to have a very loose definition of "jumping ship", because by my account the only sizable game company that seriously put their foot down on Sony's BS was D3 Publishing. Just about every other non-indie publisher I can think of has capitulated to them on at least some level. Even IFI of all publishers has given ground, Mary Skelter Final has a lower CERO rating than previous entries, for instance. One mid-sized studio and a cluster of VN publishers and indie amateurs does not amount to meaningful pushback.

Again, I point to Sony's contract shenanigans as the most likely culprit, as at this point in time any game that includes a Playstation console as one of their release platforms, unless it's from a tiny obscure indie dev, will be toned down to match Sony's censorship policies. Most likely these contracts are designed in such a way that make it difficult to separate yourself from the Sony partnership as well. This is flagrantly anti-competitive practice, especially in a market such as console gaming where the barriers to entry are astronomically high compared to other industries. If the DOJ and FTC had any proper sense of justice they would do some good old fashioned trust busting and put a stop to these practices, fine Sony and grant these developers relief. But these agencies haven't done anything like that in quite some time because again, regulatory capture. Perhaps state legislatures could take up the mantle in some way, but I'm not sure if they could have any meaningful impact without running afoul of the interstate commerce clause.

That's why Cloud's reveal is still the most shocking one to me. FFVII was only possible because of how badly Nintendo screwed over both Sony and Squaresoft. Sony not only promised Square complete creative freedom, but also insisted that they help publish the game, allowed them to port it to PC in the future, and even gave them steep discounts on necessary development kits/hardware.

They basically hatched a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" scheme to screw over their ex.

And trust me, as much as magazine covers and TV commercials tried to get you to think Crash was Mario's biggest threat, he wasn't. Even in elementary school, kids were saying, "Yo, have you heard of Final Fantasy VII? So-and-so just got it yesterday, says it's better than Ocarina of Time, the cut scenes are insane, etc."

Nintendo was so impossibly butthurt about the whole thing (along with the aftermath, including the huge spike in PS1 sales as well as Enix also dropping Nintendo to work with Sony), that the president of NoA at the time said that, "most of our customers wouldn't want or appreciate such a slow and tedious game such as Final Fantasy VII." Like, damn.

Even going into the Gamecube era, Nintendo was extremely salty about their break-up with Square. They'd sooner work with Sega, which was saying something.

FFVII was like an unstoppable monster of Nintendo's own accidental creation. To quote Max Dood, this:

View attachment 325804

really did feel impossible.

These are fair points, and it's true that Nintendo absolutely used to be a lot worse in terms of restricting what was permitted on their consoles. But that was then and this is now. And given the aforementioned copyright monkey business, I can't really agree that a different timeline would be better.

It's an absolutely crazy story. Yeah, the financial loss from Spirits Within was so drastic that it halted the merger with Enix and almost killed Squaresoft. Sony purchasing those shares and dumping some money into the studio really helped them stay afloat to finish FFX and Kingdom Hearts, which completely saved them.

What a crazy saga. I'd love to see a book or miniseries retelling this console war. There's so much more boardroom intrigue and the stakes seem higher because the two companies are more interlinked. Not to mention Microsoft pops in out of nowhere and Nintendo just lets them buy one of their biggest development studios.

What an insane time for gaming haha. I doubt we'll ever see a series of shake-ups that monumental again.

But keep in mind that Rare's talent at the time was diminishing. If you will recall their next game down the pipeline at this point in time was Grabbed by the Ghoulies, a title which doesn't exactly have the prestige of the likes of Donkey Kong Country or Banjo Kazooie, even though it was advertised as such. Rare hasn't exactly put out anything worthwhile since its golden days on the N64. And I'm sure that extra money helped keep Nintendo in the console race long enough to make a killing with the Wii and the Switch. As much as not having access to all those nostalgic IPs blows, again I would say Nintendo made the right choice, and I don't think Nintendo as a whole has any regrets either.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

FF7 is just one of those things you know. You might not know exactly what it is or even whats it about, but everyone knows about the ridiculously long swords and excessive hair styling.

Hell, I still haven’t gotten around to FF7 and I recognized One Wing Angel when Sephiroth was revealed.

 

[pupNapoleon]

As someone who was a big fan of the various Disney platformers back in the day, I'd just love for them to dive back into that with actual and spiritual sequels to those games. Something with the voice cast/scale of the Kingdom Hearts titles paired with kind of solid reinvention of the 2D and 3D platformer being done by current indie studios could make for a magical experience.

Heck a Quackshot sequel done of the in the style of a Metroidvania? That's the stuff dreams are made of.

Gotta love that Little Mermaid Game where Ariel abandons Eric and goes back into the water to become a Mermaid. Her powerups include the Dinglehopper.

 

[chocolatejr9]

It's not quite that simple. Although the official details will probably never come to light, rumor has it that Sony insisted on a clause that would have granted them special publishing rights over Nintendo IPs published on the Playstation addon, possibly opening the door to a corporate takeover down the line. Considering this is the same Sony that swamped the King of Pop himself with frivolous litigation involving claims of pedophilia just so that he would be forced to settle and sell Sony the rest of his rights to his own music catalog, I'd say Nintendo made the right call dropping them like a hot potato.



A good chunk jumped ship? You seem to have a very loose definition of "jumping ship", because by my account the only sizable game company that seriously put their foot down on Sony's BS was D3 Publishing. Just about every other non-indie publisher I can think of has capitulated to them on at least some level. Even IFI of all publishers has given ground, Mary Skelter Final has a lower CERO rating than previous entries, for instance. One mid-sized studio and a cluster of VN publishers and indie amateurs does not amount to meaningful pushback.

Again, I point to Sony's contract shenanigans as the most likely culprit, as at this point in time any game that includes a Playstation console as one of their release platforms, unless it's from a tiny obscure indie dev, will be toned down to match Sony's censorship policies. Most likely these contracts are designed in such a way that make it difficult to separate yourself from the Sony partnership as well. This is flagrantly anti-competitive practice, especially in a market such as console gaming where the barriers to entry are astronomically high compared to other industries. If the DOJ and FTC had any proper sense of justice they would do some good old fashioned trust busting and put a stop to these practices, fine Sony and grant these developers relief. But these agencies haven't done anything like that in quite some time because again, regulatory capture. Perhaps state legislatures could take up the mantle in some way, but I'm not sure if they could have any meaningful impact without running afoul of the interstate commerce clause.



These are fair points, and it's true that Nintendo absolutely used to be a lot worse in terms of restricting what was permitted on their consoles. But that was then and this is now. And given the aforementioned copyright monkey business, I can't really agree that a different timeline would be better.



But keep in mind that Rare's talent at the time was diminishing. If you will recall their next game down the pipeline at this point in time was Grabbed by the Ghoulies, a title which doesn't exactly have the prestige of the likes of Donkey Kong Country or Banjo Kazooie, even though it was advertised as such. Rare hasn't exactly put out anything worthwhile since its golden days on the N64. And I'm sure that extra money helped keep Nintendo in the console race long enough to make a killing with the Wii and the Switch. As much as not having access to all those nostalgic IPs blows, again I would say Nintendo made the right choice, and I don't think Nintendo as a whole has any regrets either.

Dang, did you just right a short essay?

But in my defense, a lot of Japanese devs in particular have been against Sony's recent changes, especially the whole "appealling more to the West" thing. Nippon Ichi, for example, have been going all in on Nintendo recently, despite originally being all about that Sony-branded Kool-Aid.

 

[pupNapoleon]

You don't know your console wars history very well then. If you've read into how the original Playstation was planned to be an SNES addon before it became its own separate console, and the reasons WHY negotiations between Nintendo and Sony ended up breaking down, it should be crystal clear why Nintendo is never going to enmesh themselves with Sony in such a manner ever again.

It was an N64 add on. Unless there was ALSO one for the SNES.

 

[Inferno7]

Me too
I got some Ideas

Diablo
M. Bison
Dr. Eggman
Shadow
Shao Khan
Nemesis (Resident Evil)
Wesker
The Lich King

Diablo and Shadow would be so pog
Legit would play for days on end if one of them somehow got in

 

[pupNapoleon]

What a crazy saga. I'd love to see a book or miniseries retelling this console war. There's so much more boardroom intrigue and the stakes seem higher because the two companies are more interlinked. Not to mention Microsoft pops in out of nowhere and Nintendo just lets them buy one of their biggest development studios.

I wanna be in the room where it happens.
(I forgot how to embed videos)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

After watching this, I REALLY want Disney to give Epic Mickey a second chance:

I'd argue this is the second chance

In other words: Sony can't even refuse the idea if Nintendo doesn't make the proposal in the first place.

We also know that Nintendo hate good business deals as seen with Samus getting scrapped in Fortnite because Nintendo got too damn greedy despite how much it'd help push Metroid

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

We also know that Nintendo hate good business deals as seen with Samus getting scrapped in Fortnite because Nintendo got too damn greedy despite how much it'd help push Metroid

Really? I always thought it was a simply a fake leak. If thats confirmed it’ll be super disappointing. Even though I don’t play Fortnite it’d be really cool to see Samus get in shootouts with Masterchief and the Mandalorian, among other icons.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Really? I always thought it was a simply a fake leak. If thats confirmed it’ll be super disappointing. Even though I don’t play Fortnite it’d be really cool to see Samus get in shootouts with Masterchief and the Mandalorian, among other icons.

Nah, the Epic vs Apple lawsuit had them subpeona all sorts of data including that, how MS handles their competition and all sorts of ****, we know that Samus was planned and that there was special coding so unlike Chief and Kratos, she'd only be visible to Switch players, but Nintendo gotta Nintendo and screw it up when Metroid benefits immensely from such exposure

 

[BlondeLombax]

I just can't imagine the last character for Smash Bros. Ultimate being one that was predicted, guessed or expected. What about you, guys?

If it's the big one I want, then the salt will be a million different varieties of glorious from fans who were led to believe their own lies.

Edit: Apparently to the point where I can't even English good.