Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Momotsuki]

Banjo & Kazooie were done great justice. The moveset isn't flashy, crazy or particularly over-the-top. But guess what? Neither are they. Neither are their games.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Banjo & Kazooie were done great justice. The moveset isn't flashy, crazy or particularly over-the-top. But guess what? Neither are they. Neither are their games.

...and the Melee nostalgia. As if Sakurai were holding onto that moveset for 18 years.

 

[7NATOR]

Eh, I just rarely see movesets even considered- as if no creativity were able to be put in it. This is my idea:

STYLE: Action Survival

Standard Special: Dual Pistols. Lara holds B and rapidly fires her pistols. Once she hits a target, it locks on. When locked onto a target, she cannot Shield or Dodge without releasing B. However, if she does use the Shield button, this gives her the ability to lock onto a second target if they are near the first target, and each of the two targets gets hit at half speed (as they each only have one pistol locked on). Lara has full mobility while shooting.

Side Special: Bow and Arrow. Lara can press the combination multiple times to switch arrow types, indicated by a meter on the bottom. The options are

• Standard Arrow (slightly faster than others)
• Fire Arrow (slightly more damage)
• Poison Arrow (Damage that Lingers)
• Explosive Arrow (Slightly More Radius of Damage
• Piercing Arrow (can go through opponent and hit multiple)

Up Special: Skilled Climber. Lara throws out a grappling hook. It is longer than the average tether grab, and Is able to be aimed. If it lands, Lara climbs up the rope, and then can continue to climb up the stage with her pickaxe, by another half of the rope’s length- regardless of the angle. The hook will also cause average damage if it lands on an opponent, and will push them out of the way to securely attach to a ledge if Lara is in the air.

Down Special: Endure. Lara is known to survive, and this move helps her in multiple ways. For several frames once pressed, Lara will enter an invincible mode. This will mean she can survive a couple of hits without taking damage or knockback, break a counter used on her, move through rapid fire attacks. It is also used passively to help her survive for slighter longer when swimming, and passively keeps her from taking damage or effect from stage hazards.

OTHER: In stark contrast to other characters, and to emphasize that Lara is a human thrown into other worldly adventures- her Smash attacks, not her specials, will use animations of the items in her more magical explorations- though they will not be as versatile as her specials.

You know, While I don't think it's a Flashy moveset on here, I will say that the moves displayed here would seem very fun to play around with, and it all comes down to the Details. Good job on the Specials

I think especially with the fact that we gonna have large Rosters around 80 characters or so (whether Next Smash games keep around this number remains to be seen), I think when More and More Newcomers join in, alot of the time it might come down to the Details that set characters apart from each other, not the Base idea of a move. You can kind of see that already with some of the Newcomers in Ultimate anyway

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I don't know. While Lara Croft is an iconic character in gaming, I feel like the movesets people suggest for her could be done by lots of other characters and doesn't seem all that unique. Like Link could probably do the stuff that she could do. Nathan Drake could be fitted into one of the movesets and feel natural. People should really focus on what Lara can do that other characters can't do for there to be some interest in her.

 

[cj.]

Wonderboy with Master Higgins echo, So we can have a Sega and Konami rep at the same time

 

[Inferno7]

Anyone’s possible for the last fighter.

I’m kinda glad that the DLC started with Joker. IMO, he was a giant wake up call that this game’s DLC could go left OR right field and that expecting both the expected and unexpected would be a wise decision.

I feel like to this day, no other addition has ever been as random as Joker

Originally being a PS4 exclusive, with no massive overlap or requests from Nintendo fans, from a JRPG franchise that while popular, isn't on the same level as say; DQ or FF.

My crackpot theory is that Joker was unironically Sakurai's MW, the amount of love that was put into him and his content makes it very evident. Not to mention he fits the sort of design that Sakurai tends to love (dark with shades of red).

 

[N3ON]

I mean, you can take hyperbole literally if you like, that's up to you. I tend to hyperbolize how I feel about something to bring humor to it, something that is difficult to do when text is the sole form of communication, made even more difficult with company that automatically defaults to a negative opinion of you.

To be fair though, I don't actually hate the game that much, even though I do think it's incredibly manipulative of children. Between that and it's success causing Epic Games to be short sighted and kill off a game I was much more invested in, I have no qualms about it. It has it's own level of appeal, it's own level of skill, and it gets a lot of cool stuff.

Though I can understand why you would assume I have an irrational hatred toward a video game, as it seems the irrational is more commonplace, but having said that I would figure my open-mindedness of Ultimate's inclusions and insightful posts with deeper thinking would suggest that I tend to be less reactionary than your average internet user.

I will say that Fortnite not getting a character in Smash is simply a victory for everyone though, as it's proof that Minecraft achieved something outstanding and that run-of-the-mill games who have momentary popularity don't equate that and that Nintendo hasn't fallen so low as to capitalize on something like that in the faces of their fans.

As for the Mii Costume thing, you are just flat out wrong. You have been proven wrong on the existing reasoning multiple times, it's just that you changed from the initial quota many times already that you have probably forgotten already. The original quota was 'If any content from the franchise of the character you want exists in the base game, they have no chance.' and after that failed when ARMS was announced it was changed to 'Content of your character kills their chance'...which then also failed with Min Min. Then it was changed to exclude Spirits from the base game, a literal PNG, but Mii Costumes and Assist Trophies were the death sentence for sure. So, just to clarify, Mii Costumes weren't even the starting point of the argument, and this stance already failed twice, yet the mindset is the same.

However, a simple dive into Sakurai's previous development attempts proves that he has always attempted to get the 'main character' from a game or franchise to best represent the series in Smash. This means that, when he went forward to negotiate for ARMS, Spring Man was on the table and clearly who he was going into the negotiations for originally, even though Min Min was the most popular and Ninjara was his personal favorite. It was the producer's wishes and ideology that won Sakurai over to choose Min Min in the end. This very fact alone means that neither his AT nor his costume stopped him from being chosen, but let's get to the more obvious ones.

Sakurai said that the game can't handle Rex AND one of the girls moving and fighting about at the same time at any given time, so instead of scrapping the character they made a design choice to just pick the girls and include Rex in what areas they could. Now, does that sound like it has anything to do with his costume? Don't forget, this was when the narrative changed the quota again: now it was 'Third Party costumes deconfirm, but not First Party' and no single person could give a real answer to back that up. It was a silly argument that was simply adjusted to fit what had happened without any sound logic behind it, because logic at this point would suggest that costumes just aren't a deal breaker.

Then, we got Kazuya, and Sakurai said he was chosen because of the Devil Gene which allowed more creative freedom to make him truly fit into Smash. If you recall, Heihachi was attempted for Smash 4 but they couldn't do it to satisfaction, and so it seems a similar situation happened and they went with Kazuya instead. Once again, we have proof that Heihachi's costume had nothing to do with it, so that kills the argument again...yet, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the quota was changed to 'costumes of the character deconfirm the character themselves but not other from the franchise' I believe? What a pitiful state this argument is in, it is barely recognizable from it's original state, and honestly it makes no sense.

So first off, this contradicts it's previous form, which was that 'First Party Don't, Third Party Do' because now it includes first Party costumes again...which was something you guys already ruled out. It also is just wrong, because of all the information we have that points out that the costumes had nothing to do with their exclusion, which is essentially calling Sakurai a liar, something you guys chew people's asses about when they suggest Sakurai could be doing when it comes to content after CP11. This means that you are making the same claim as those who bring evidence for more content past CP11 but insist that they cannot make such a claim while you can...rules for thee but not for me.

Let me add something else: this implies that every single costume was chosen with the intent that these characters we not getting in. In other words, you are implying all the costumes were chosen after all the characters, which we not only don't know for sure but actually have evidence that this isn't the case with the returning costumes. Having every single Third Party costume return in random intervals is proof they always planned to return them all in some way, something that does not require characters to be chosen beforehand but rather just choosing where and when the costumes return.

Finally, this train of logic doesn't even fully apply to returning costumes, as they didn't have to be freshly made for this game. We have viewed them as killing off a characters chances since Smash 4 because, at that time, they were new and there was no reason to make a costume and the character playable (other than money of course). However, when you combine the fact that they were not new and had very little changes made to them with the fact that they were all planned to return and thus wouldn't interfere with character decisions, returning costumes really don't have the same weight as brand new ones. This would be even more true for them and for costumes that came out this cycle for the next game of the series or even more DLC, were it to happen. Also, the simple answer again, if they think they can make good money off it they should do both a costume and the character just to make that much more money, and of course they should do the costume first because it will get more sales than if it releases with or after the character.

In other words, assuming a character has a lesser chance just because of other content related to them appearing in the game while development for the game is still actively ongoing is foolish, as anything can change. Such gatekeeping is folly and too broad in scope. Focusing on the specific pros and cons to each character's chances is a much more efficient way to get closer to the answer, as well as thinking in terms of the company and as a developer rather than with the mind of a fan and removing your own biases. For example, both Sephiroth and Kazuya had signs from a while back: Cloud lacking a lot of content in comparison to other packs, Sakurai dissatisfaction with this, and the overwhelming success of FF7R coupled with Square's more consumer-friendly approach were all obvious signs for Sephy while Heihachi's failing to be added in Smash 4, the success of Tekken 7 and how much help Bamco has been with aiding in the development of the last two Smash titles being perfect signs for Kazuya.

I think plenty of these signs are out there for CP11 as well, so we should all have it narrowed down by now, though I suppose time will tell soon enough.

I'll look past the words you continue to put in my mouth and just say that the more entrenched you get in a possibility that is only narrowing, and now entirely hinges on one last character, the more you'll have to reconcile with when the final addition grants even more credence to the stance you've long been opposing, and renders your position all the more unconvincing.

 

[MaplePie]

So Who do you think will gonna be the last fighter?

A lot of people will disagree with me, but it's Porky Minch imo. Earthbound is kinda in a Final Fantasy situation(referring lack of a specific kind of music), where they have only two battle tracks in one song: Unfounded Revenge/Smashing Song of Praise; both from Mother 3. There are no Earthbound battle music tracks such as: Cease to Exist, Sanctuary Guardian, New Age Retro Hippie. The ASC doesn't represent Porky because they had already updated the sprite by adding in a few pixels, but they still kept the empty version. In fact they updated multiple eb spirits. Giygas(would be Porky's legend spirit in the spirit board) who is a major antagonist for two of the games is not a spirit as well despite having a major role in the series. Too scary argument can't work if they added Gormorrah.

• Version 2.0.0 updated the spirit, as well as its appearance in the Inventory menu, to use the Masked Man's proper sprite from Mother 3,[2] with many other EarthBound spirits receiving similar updates to their sprites.[3]
  
  

 

[Idon]

I'll look past the words you continue to put in my mouth and just say that the more entrenched you get in a possibility that is only narrowing, and now entirely hinges on one last character, the more you'll have to reconcile with when the final addition grants even more credence to the stance you've long been opposing, and renders your position all the more unconvincing.

inb4 "being an AT/mii didn't deconfirm them, they could've done those characters and the miis but they chose not to." coping.

 

[Dinoman96]

I feel like to this day, no other addition has ever been as random as Joker

Originally being a PS4 exclusive, with no massive overlap or requests from Nintendo fans, from a JRPG franchise that while popular, isn't on the same level as say; DQ or FF.

My crackpot theory is that Joker was unironically Sakurai's MW, the amount of love that was put into him and his content makes it very evident. Not to mention he fits the sort of design that Sakurai tends to love (dark with shades of red).

I just think the Nintendo suits saw how popular Persona 5 was back in 2016/2017 (it was a GOTY contender and everything) and just wanted to capitalize on the hype for it.

Really the most random DLC character will always be Terry to me. Like yes I understand the legacy of SNK and all, but he does just stack up weirdly in comparison to the other third party newcomers, which have all been from wildly sucessful, relevant and popular games like Persona, Dragon Quest, Minecraft, Final Fantasy and Tekken. Unlike those series, Terry/SNK/King of Fighters, while still technically around, have seen better days.

Well, there's also Banjo-Kazooie, but at least they had the excuse of being highly requested by fans, and there was a lot of hype about there being a Microsoft owned character in Smash, especially ones that used to originally be with Nintendo.

Terry will always be funny to me because his inclusion gave Smash fans hope for characters from more "smaller" Japanese third party IPs of that calibur, like Ryu Hayabusa, Arle, Travis Touchdown, Sol Badguy, etc but since then all we've gotten on the third party front are mega popular AAA series like Minecraft, Final Fantasy and Tekken.

 

[MasterCheef]

I just think the Nintendo suits saw how popular Persona 5 was back in 2016/2017 (it was a GOTY contender and everything) and just wanted to capitalize on the hype for it.

Really the most random DLC character will always be Terry to me. Like yes I understand the legacy of SNK and all, but he does just stack up weirdly in comparison to the other third party newcomers, which have all been from wildly sucessful, relevant and popular games like Persona, Dragon Quest, Minecraft, Final Fantasy and Tekken. Unlike those series, Terry/SNK/King of Fighters, while still technically around, have seen better days.

Well, there's also Banjo-Kazooie, but at least they had the excuse of being highly requested by fans, and there was a lot of hype about there being a Microsoft owned character in Smash, especially ones that used to originally be with Nintendo.

Terry will always be funny to me because his inclusion gave Smash fans hope for more "smaller" Japanese third party IPs of that calibur, like Ryu Hayabusa, Arle, Travis Touchdown, Sol Badguy, etc but since then all we've gotten on the third party front are mega popular AAA series like Minecraft, Final Fantasy and Tekken.

i have had the same thoughts too.

 

[RoboFist]

Banjo & Kazooie were done great justice. The moveset isn't flashy, crazy or particularly over-the-top. But guess what? Neither are they. Neither are their games.

...and the Melee nostalgia. As if Sakurai were holding onto that moveset for 18 years.

And I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Speed Weed]

it’s not that a sega rep other than sonic is bad. It’s more that another sega rep that isn’t sonic just doesn’t feel right.

Sonic’s their mascot and has been in the game since brawl and only has sonic playable with a terrible moveset and content that does him no justice. A decade later and it’s still the same and we have bayonetta who’s arguably in a better position than the sonic franchise.

imagine getting a third sega rep who gets the same amount of songs as sonic, a better stage that’s done actual justice and an actual moveset that’s done justice. It just doesn’t feel right

Though I wouldn’t mind arle if it means we get some puzzle representation for the puzzle genre.

Yeah but ya see here's the thing

It's completely okay to feel like Sonic isn't given a fair shake in Smash - hell, I kinda agree with that. I do think Sonic could use a better moveset. I do think we could use a second stage that isn't another variation on the Green Hill template. I do think its music selection could be a lot better, especially considering that there's some genuinely iconic tracks missing, like Chemical Plant, Seaside Hill and E.G.G.M.A.N.

HOWEVER

Besides the fact that these are all things that could be fixed without even adding a new character, I feel like it's also really misguided to act like us getting anything else from SEGA would be weird or wouldn't feel right, because let's be real - SEGA has an insanely good library of IP. You have Big Modern Hits like Yakuza, you have classic long-running series like Phantasy Star, Sakura Wars and Puyo Puyo, you have legacy properties with significant followings like Streets of Rage and Shenmue, and an incredibly prolific and iconic history of arcade games that could be represented as a whole - in the same way that Pac-Man and Terry do - by someone like Opa-Opa or Space Harrier. And to try to invalidate all of that because Sonic is their biggest series and apparently should always get more because of that is honestly what really feels wrong to me. In general, the idea that Sonic is getting - or should get - the next SEGA character cause it's their biggest series feels really weird to me cause, like....Sonic's already in the game. I'd be fully behind that argument if he wasn't, but...he is. The series being that big is something that has already paid off, so I don't get why they apparently still shouldn't go for someone else now.

It just feels like it's kind of downplaying the importance of other SEGA IP and ignoring the fans that would like to see these series in Smash - it's almost like "nuh uh, you don't get to see this SEGA character you want in Smash cause Sonic still needs more content". I don't want to come across the wrong way because I really do think that feeling like a given series in Smash could use more content than it already has is a valid sentiment, but the moment you start using that as justification for why other SEGA series shouldn't have their chance.....it does start to come off as (and I hate to use this word) a tiny bit entitled, tbh. Because you may feel like you're kind of getting a raw deal, and that's understandable in a vacuum, but once you begin to use that against the prospect of other SEGA series, I think it's time we do a little perspective flip here:

First things first, I will say I'm not trying to speak for all SEGA fans. I'm just using my own personal experience as an example for why certain people might not want a second Sonic character right now. I'm not trying to present my own personal gripes as an Objective Omission in the roster - again, it's just an example to demonstrate what I mean.

So personally, I've never been all that satisfied with how SEGA is represented in Smash and that's because I've always been a bigger fan of their "classic" stuff - and that side of things isn't really all that well represented in Smash. The most it has is an Assist Trophy, and 90% of the content this part of SEGA has is from one series and one series only. And considering the sheer amount of great IP from this part of SEGA, yeah I'd like that to be fleshed out some more. For perspective here, we're three SEGA characters in and we still don't have anyone from this part of them. Doesn't even necessarily have to be an older character, I'd still count someone like Kiryu as a win at this point. I'd be pretty disappointed if we were on our fourth damned SEGA character by now and I still can't get any one of these characters. It's, like, I've been waiting for a more "classic" SEGA character for a long time now, so if I had to get back to waiting in line again after all this time and it's just for Sonic to double dip...yeah I wouldn't exactly be happy. Now, again, this is just an example. This is just my personal problem. Other people may have other problems with how SEGA is doing in Smash. The goal of all this is just to demonstrate that some people would just rather have someone else.

For example, this is just based on how I personally feel and is not me trying to present an objective argument against more Sonic content, but I honestly have to admit I do feel a bit rubbed the wrong way when people use the amount of Sonic content in Smash as the reason why it should get the next SEGA rep. Like, you guys at least actually have a character, I feel like I have almost nothing. And that's sorta what I'm getting at here - this whole thing feels to me like it's basically saying "the people that have nothing shouldn't get anything because the people that have something should get more of it". And that's kinda what frustrates me as a big fan of SEGA: I always see people acting like Sonic is entitled to the next SEGA rep because it isn't perfectly represented, I see people acting like a second Sonic rep is the only viable option for SEGA, I see people discrediting the other stuff SEGA's made, acting like it's got no importance. And at a certain point, it really starts to get to you. At a certain point, I begin to feel like I'm basically being told to my face over and over again that I don't deserve to have what I love about SEGA celebrated in Smash at all because Sonic is bigger, so we need to add More Of It (TM).

Now, again, this is all just a personal example to demonstrate my point. And what I'm trying to say is that it's fine if you think Sonic could use more content, but please don't act like you have it worse than fans of other SEGA IP that have nothing at all.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I feel like we have this Sonic argument about once every few weeks when really, the moveset is the only lacking thing

Not true, he is also less expressive than in Brawl for no real reason.

 

[Dinoman96]

Sonic is in a weird place where technically the quantity of its representation is good. It's just the actual quality of most of it that's lacking.

Like it's cool it has two stages, but they're both boring starter Green Hills type levels, and one of them comes from a game nobody likes. There's lots of music tracks but there has been exactly zero actual new arrangements for the series since Brawl. There's also lots of spirits but it pretty much entirely just leans on the Modern era characters with no love for any of the Classic verse cast. And then you have Sonic himself, whose moveset has been heavily derided and criticised by players for years now.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

There's also lots of spirits but it pretty much entirely just leans on the Modern era characters with no love for any of the Classic verse cast.

To be fair, all the most important characters from the Classic era are represented as spirits.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Explanation for Terry appearence in Smash: SNK offered their license of characters to japanese fighting game developers for very little money.

Thats why we got Geese in Tekken 7, Mai in Dead or Alive 6, Haohmaru in Soul Calibur 6 and Terry in Smash Ultimate (and other fighting game that i don’t remember now).

Who they do that? Advertising, fighting game players starts to remember back SNK properties and then buy their newest games.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Doesn't mean we can't lament over the lack of no-brainer songs like:
The Deadly Six Theme

WE DO NOT SPEAK OF THE DEADLY SIX.

FOR THIS SIN, I MUST CHECK YOUR VIBE.

 

[cashregister9]

WE DO NOT SPEAK OF THE DEADLY SIX.
View attachment 325698
FOR THIS SIN, I MUST CHECK YOUR VIBE.

EMBRACE THE TRUTH

 

[Momotsuki]

A lot of people will disagree with me, but it's Porky Minch imo. Earthbound is kinda in a Final Fantasy situation(referring lack of a specific kind of music), where they have only two battle tracks in one song: Unfounded Revenge/Smashing Song of Praise; both from Mother 3. There are no Earthbound battle music tracks such as: Cease to Exist, Sanctuary Guardian, New Age Retro Hippie. The ASC doesn't represent Porky because they had already updated the sprite by adding in a few pixels, but they still kept the empty version. In fact they updated multiple eb spirits. Giygas(would be Porky's legend spirit in the spirit board) who is a major antagonist for two of the games is not a spirit as well despite having a major role in the series. Too scary argument can't work if they added Gormorrah.

• Version 2.0.0 updated the spirit, as well as its appearance in the Inventory menu, to use the Masked Man's proper sprite from Mother 3,[2] with many other EarthBound spirits receiving similar updates to their sprites.[3]
  View attachment 325690

All I can say is that I would love for you to be right. Godspeed.

 

[walugurl]

]

-Waluigi was Shadow's biggest competitor, and he's seemingly out due to Mario Golf's spirit event which actually added new spirits

He’s not out cause of some silly spirit event. This spirit event doesn’t even have him. Why does he need Mario golf to be dlc?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

i actually think ghost gang is our final character because wheres pacmaze if its not saved for a highly specialized challenger pack like y’all thats abhorrent representation that should be fixed pronto and was luckily already intended to be fixed from launch on when they omitted it for this exact purpose like how can it be smash ultimate without this exact piece of the cornerstone of gaming?

EDIT: Okay yadda yadda I’m spiteful and I apologize to the Shadow/Porky fans y’all are super rad but I’m also unironically right that Ghost Gang would be the best inclusion ever and Pac-Maze would rule as a final stage so yeah

 

[Guynamednelson]

]

He’s not out cause of some silly spirit event. This spirit event doesn’t even have him. Why does he need Mario golf to be dlc?

Because he needs SOMETHING to fill out a challenger pack without scraping the bottom of the barrel.

I will never let go of this statement. Not when FFVII and XC2 were able to scrape the top of their barrels.

 

[walugurl]

Because he needs SOMETHING to fill out a challenger pack without scraping the bottom of the barrel.

I will never let go of this statement. Not when FFVII and XC2 were able to scrape the top of their barrels.

Mario tennis aces suits him better cause tennis was the game he debuted in. Have some spirits from that game, the stage could be Marina stadium and add some more music from that game. There you go.

 

[Theguy123]

I’m just ready for the last reveal at this point. It’s getting tiresome hearing about so many theories and fan rules etc. Over this next month or so all we’re gonna hear about is

40 name list leak

Parallel theory

Fixing the base roster theory

How the 8.8.2018 direct means an AT is getting upgraded from that direct

how the fire tournament deconfirms a user with fire as it’s main attacks

how the last character has a weapon apart of its standard attacks thanks to kazuya’s tournament

how the decade tournaments deconfirm a 2010+ rep

how SMT 5 is the final spot

how the last spot is a Nintendo rep

how the last spot is ryu hayabusa

how the last spot is a capcom rep

how The rapper Mario leak is real

how the rapper Mario leak is fake

what the 8.8.2018 smash direct takedown means

insiders giving yes and no answers to smash news

how tournaments deconfirm specific move sets

how the last character is mute

Etc. I’m just ready at this point. I’m Finally ready. Surprise me whilst I have the will Nintendo.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I don’t really believe in any “Filling a Spirit Board is a hardline criterium” things because 1. Xenoblade 2 representation in the Spirit department was far from lacking in the base game and 2. Almost any character in gaming can technically fill a Spirit Board if it wanted to. The question is how indicative the Challenger Pack model is of the overall development and choice philosophy for the DLC is which overall does seem to be pointing towards new worlds and a certain sense of cross-over appeal.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I don’t really believe in any “Filling a Spirit Board is a hardline criterium” things because 1. Xenoblade 2 representation in the Spirit department was far from lacking in the base game and 2. Almost any character in gaming can technically fill a Spirit Board if it wanted to. The question is how indicative the Challenger Pack model is of the overall development and choice philosophy for the DLC is which overall does seem to be pointing towards new worlds and a certain sense of cross-over appeal.

I do think the last character will be from a new world because so far, Sephiroth, Pyra and Mythra, and technically Min Min since ARMS was already "represented" in the game, all come from old worlds. Only Steve and Kazuya are from totally new worlds in this pass. Whereas last pass seemed to prioritize new worlds a lot, with only one character coming from an old world (two if you count Piranha Plant). I know this is basically just more pattern-seeking, but it just kind of makes sense to me.

 

[SNEKeater]

I do think the last character will be from a new world because so far, Sephiroth, Pyra and Mythra, and technically Min Min since ARMS was already "represented" in the game, all come from old worlds. Only Steve and Kazuya are from totally new worlds in this pass. Whereas last pass seemed to prioritize new worlds a lot, with only one character coming from an old world (two if you count Piranha Plant). I know this is basically just more pattern-seeking, but it just kind of makes sense to me.

I could see that, yeah. 3 completely new series and 3 series with content in the base game.

 

[walugurl]

I do think the last character will be from a new world because so far, Sephiroth, Pyra and Mythra, and technically Min Min since ARMS was already "represented" in the game, all come from old worlds. Only Steve and Kazuya are from totally new worlds in this pass. Whereas last pass seemed to prioritize new worlds a lot, with only one character coming from an old world (two if you count Piranha Plant). I know this is basically just more pattern-seeking, but it just kind of makes sense to me.

I honestly don’t see it happening because people are expecting it. Lol

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

EMBRACE THE TRUTH

Considering how they amputated Tails, caused Mega Man to shoot himself, and got Cream infected with the Metal Virus...

Yeah, no. Time to burn them to a pile of smoldering ash!

 

[Inferno7]

I just think the Nintendo suits saw how popular Persona 5 was back in 2016/2017 (it was a GOTY contender and everything) and just wanted to capitalize on the hype for it.

Really the most random DLC character will always be Terry to me. Like yes I understand the legacy of SNK and all, but he does just stack up weirdly in comparison to the other third party newcomers, which have all been from wildly sucessful, relevant and popular games like Persona, Dragon Quest, Minecraft, Final Fantasy and Tekken. Unlike those series, Terry/SNK/King of Fighters, while still technically around, have seen better days.

Well, there's also Banjo-Kazooie, but at least they had the excuse of being highly requested by fans, and there was a lot of hype about there being a Microsoft owned character in Smash, especially ones that used to originally be with Nintendo.

Terry will always be funny to me because his inclusion gave Smash fans hope for characters from more "smaller" Japanese third party IPs of that calibur, like Ryu Hayabusa, Arle, Travis Touchdown, Sol Badguy, etc but since then all we've gotten on the third party front are mega popular AAA series like Minecraft, Final Fantasy and Tekken.

Terry feels odd because of how niche KOF may seem compared to giants like MK and Tekken, but in reality it does have the most merits out of them as far as Smash is concerned, since IIRC it was the one game that inspired Sakurai to create Smash Bros.

 

[Shroob]

I'm very hopeful CP11 gets revealed next month in a potential Direct.


I'm bracing for them dragging this out for as long as they can though.

 

[SKX31]

Really the most random DLC character will always be Terry to me. Like yes I understand the legacy of SNK and all, but he does just stack up weirdly in comparison to the other third party newcomers, which have all been from wildly sucessful, relevant and popular games like Persona, Dragon Quest, Minecraft, Final Fantasy and Tekken. Unlike those series, Terry/SNK/King of Fighters, while still technically around, have seen better days.

Terry feels odd because of how niche KOF may seem compared to giants like MK and Tekken, but in reality it does have the most merits out of them as far as Smash is concerned, since IIRC it was the one game that inspired Sakurai to create Smash Bros.

Terry's case, as with Kazuya's, partly comes down to the fact that their influence is a bit more spread and "hidden". Yeah, it may not be a primary factor, but lets take it this way:

SNK's arcade machines - specifically the Neo Geo MVS - were not only multipurpose (meaning you could fit six games into one cartridge. Yes this arcade machine used cartridges) but also easily swappable if needed. This is direct contrast to Capcom's CPS2 machines, where one needed to replace one arcade machine with another in order to get the new game going.

For arcade owners in very disparate countries like Mexico, Brazil or China, this made the MVS the obvious choice. That alongside rather high tariffs / import controls in all three cases stifling consoles created this scenario:

By the dawn of the 1990s, arcades became the de facto method of consuming video games in those areas. And so Neo Geo arcade cabinets proliferated in Latin America, King Of Fighters along with it. From arcades in metropolitan hubs to small local drug stores, the Neo Geo was a common fixture on many street corners.

“In Mexico in the late ‘90s and early ‘00s, three of every two drug stores had a KOF arcade,” said Jose Saucedo, a former games journalist and social media manager. “And that’s not a grammar mistake.”

SNK knew this audience existed, and embraced it. It would show off new entries into the series were at yearly events in Mexico City. Photographic evidence of these events show lines for entry stretched around city blocks, full of fans eager to see and test next year’s game.

And similar stuff happened in China - hell, when SNK was first bought out in 2015 the buyers outright listed KoF 97 as a primary reason for the buyout. It's not without reason, as the KoF 97 DouYu Cup (held in 2014, the one with 500K viewership) can attest to.

Their popularity is also a bit more hidden since unlike your typical $60 game - whose sales can be tracked rather easily - arcade machines primarily measure(d) income in coins inserted. Now add to that the MVS was rather easy to pirate / bootleg and well, yeah. It becomes more difficult to track how well KoF actually did - something similar happened with the original Doom, which was originally shareware and as such id knew that the original Doom was way more popular than "just" 100K copies sold in the first year.

This issue of tracking how popular something is remains to this day, but nowadays this kinda applies to mobile games too. Tencent did include KoF / SamSho characters into their mobile LoL (only in the Chinese version) post-buyout for example. That's not something that Tencent would do if they knew it wouldn't pay off.

Now back to Nintendo. They know that Smash has a pretty decent-to-strong existing foothold in LatAm, and Nintendo's intensying their efforts there at the same time. And on the other side of the globe Nintendo's talking with Tencent - coincidentally a megacorp that's friendly to SNK - about distributing the Switch to China officially. Those talks are done primarily because Nintendo know very well that Switches are being unofficially imported there in large enough numbers.

Sure, it may not be the primary reason, but it's certainly a pretty damn major bonus.

Oh and the execs make a choice that they know Sakurai will love working on due to the influence KoF has on Smash? That's a good way to keep Sakurai and co. happy - or at least content - with the execs too. Now that is probably a bigger reason: Sakurai's relatively independent, remember (as the head honcho of Sora Ltd.). But the above still is worth noting here, especially when regional popularity is often considered when talking about different characters.

 

[subterrestrial]

So Who do you think will gonna be the last fighter?

its obviously king boo, and idk why more people don’t see it coming

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Y'know - random thought. If Waluigi ever does make it into a Smash game, he should have a unique mechanic on the Victory Screen, but only when he loses. Have him heckle the winner from his little box instead of clapping. Maybe even personalized jabs if the winning fighter is one he has a history with.
There'd be exceptions, such as with Meta Knight and Sephiroth, where he just hangs his head down since they leave during some of their victory taunts.

He should do this regardless of if he wins or loses. Its the most Waluigi thing ever to be both a sore winner and sore loser.

 

[Theguy123]

its obviously king boo, and idk why more people don’t see it coming

would be poetic if the immortal ghost that can’t capture mario due to his brother standing in his way makes his attack attack as his brother is canonically dead in smash and has been since Simon’s trailer.

 

[Phoenixio]

Ah, good ol' fashioned unfaithful/unprofessional translators and their communications sabotage. A local favorite.

Clearly you don't speak any other language at a fluent level. It's EXTREMELY difficult to translate any language to another and keep EXACTLY the same meaning. Even if you translate word by word. And then comes Japanese, which is notoriously dependent on context. A translator can make an amazing job and still not include all the subtleties of the original message. In this case we had pages and pages of debate over the translated word, so obviously the translation has to be taken with a grain of salt. Few on here actually understand Japanese well enough to judge if the translation was correct, and even then, in English alone, that expression could mean a ton of different things depending on context.

So it's not sabotage in any way, it's that people made interpretation over interpretations of the original message. Nobody is blaming any translator anywhere, but anybody that speaks anything extra to English understands this point really well.

 

[walugurl]

He should do this regardless of if he wins or loses. Its the most Waluigi thing ever to be both a sore winner and sore loser.

Not really, he claps for the winner in other games.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I actually like the Deadly Six from Sonic.

You may now gasp.

 

[FreeFox]

I actually like the Deadly Six from Sonic.

You may now gasp.

But this is imposible! A true Sonic fan always acts like this: