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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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7NATOR

7NATOR

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Inferno7 said:
At this point I don't even know

Have been losing faith on RE, since after I reconsidered the spirit event situation, I just realized that most of those spirits would be either Legend or at the very least Ace Class in case the series got represented. So I don't think I'll root for them anymore.

Speaking of Capcom, Phoenix is pretty much the only one left standing but considering how bigger and more requested choices like Dante got snubbed, I just don't see it happening. Especially when you consider that Kazuya's alt and him overlap in terms of design (if this applies to Kiryu, then it counts here too).

Shadow does have a legitimate chance but it legit feels like I'm being biased. Well, still doesn't change the fact that SEGA is in a good spot right now, possibly the best out of any company present in base game.
So here's a summarizer:
-SEGA hasn't gotten miis or anything besides maybe the Sophia spirit (and even then you can argue that's Atlus rep) during FP2
-Nintendo playing it safe with the companies, being from both FP1 and base game (which means no new companies), and if double dip rule is legit, its chances will only increase
-Sonic being an immensely popular franchise with the most requests out of any IP when it comes to getting a 2nd rep, and not only did Seph break that fanrule, but most of the IPs in FP2 have been pretty big deals overall
-Shadow not getting a mii (unlike characters such as Bomberman) even when he's debatably the most consistently requested choice for a Sonic rep
-Most FP2 characters breaking a fanrule or two at a time
-Waluigi was Shadow's biggest competitor, and he's seemingly out due to Mario Golf's spirit event which actually added new spirits
-Sakurai liking edgy chars, with this pass in particular containing two (Kaz and Seph)
-''But what about Sakurai's pic of the day and the anniversary spirit event?'' First things first, Tekken got a pic of the day before its inclusion, and FE got 2 spirit events before Byleth. Sonic's spirit event also didn't add new spirits, and most of the viable candidates were excluded (Tails, Eggman, Knux, Shadow).

I personally have been losing faith on this as well but the evidence is there.
Nonetheless, my safe bet is a SEGA rep, no matter who it is (could be Arle for all we know), I just feel it.
Click to expand...
I quoted because I want a Excuse to talk about Shadow again, because there is something I got to add

Someone already linked this video on this thread, but Blastbox had a viewpoint on Fighter Pass 2 so far


His viewpoint is similar to the viewpoint of the 2nd chance theory that was (and is) popular in speculation. However one interesting observation occurred to me through this video

Fighter Pass 2 isn't just adding more fighters to the game, but it's also fixing holes in some of the representation in the game, in terms of what Nintendo and Sakurai intially envisioned for the game

-Steve and Kazuya are representatives of Franchises that Nintendo had wanted to be represented in Smash, but due to complications couldn't get in intially.

-Sephiroth helps makes the FF7 game feel much more complete in representation. However don't get it twisted, Sephiroth was the main reason for the Filling, He was just the vehicle for the other extra stuff (Music, Spirits, etc) to come with

-Min Min and Pyra/Mythra both showcase the Switch Library that people enjoy, which is usually something that has to wait a whole other Game and Console generation, but thanks to DLC can be included on the roster

Looking from this angle, while there are certain franchises (Kirby, Zelda, etc) that could fit this, Sonic is probably in an egregious situation since there are 2 main complaints that need to be addressed

-Despite the Large Popularity and Iconic status of the series, and the fact that the Sonic Supporting cast is among the most Iconic and popular in terms of gaming, along with Sonic being present in More Smash games than there ever has been, Sonic still only has 1 character to it's name

-While Sonic's Moveset is technically accurate, it has a lack of flair for alot of people, that people wanted to See when they envision Sonic in Smash

With that in Mind, Shadow specifically would be able to make the Sonic Representation more filling, though these reasons

-Addressing even getting a Sonic character, that's something more general any Sonic character can do, Like Eggman, Tails, & Knuckles. Shadow is the 2nd most popular character, the character the Head of Sonic Team (and maybe Sakurai) likes the most, and is the Sonic game the Japanese really love, along with SA2 being one of the few really high selling Sonic games there (along with SA1, 06, Unleashed, and OG Tilogy), so he can fill this role greatly

-Something Shadow does specifically is "Add a Sonic with more Flair"

As much as I am against the Idea of Sonic being an echo, in terms of his Creation and overall attributes, Shadow is an Echo of Sonic, a Reflection of the character. Both are very Speedy Hedgehogs, that Live free and make their own destiny, using the powers of not only themselves, but their friends. Shadow is just the Darker, more on Edge Interpretation of that. as an example, Shadow was the way that Sega was allowed to make a Game where "Sonic can use Guns"

In terms of Smash, Sonic is most likely not gonna get substantially changed because of Sakurai's Unwilling to make Drastic changes to Characters (even then, I Imagine it's harder to do with a 3rd party character like Sonic), and that I think they want to Keep Sonic simple in Concept, and more derived from his Classic Appearance

However Shadow is the way to add a Sonic that has more Flair and Complexity to him, without having to get rid of the old Sonic moveset for those that like it. Shadow is still just as Cocky and Confident as the Blue Blur, but he has a more added brutality, Focused, and Edgy nature to the way he portrays himself.

They can add more of the Modern elements onto Shadow in terms of Animations and moveset since Shadow is solely associated with the more Modern era of Sonic, This can include stuff like the Boost Attack, Light Speed Dash, Black Tornado, etc

Like how Kazuya has the Devil Gene to add more Flashiness and Complete moveset to the General Mishima Tekken Moveset, Shadow has his Chaos Powers to Make the Moveset Complete and Flashy, along with adding some Complexity. While Sonic is more general in terms of the moves he does, and focusing heavily on the General Core of his arsenals, Shadow would trade a focus on some of the General Abilities of Sonic (Spindash, Homing Attack) for the Added Versality of his Chaos Moves.

Of course the Chaos Moves would be his Specials, as Chaos Control, Chaos Spear, Chaos Warp, and Chaos Blast, with Super Shadow being his Final Smash

In terms of Gameplan, for those who wanted a Sonic that's more focused on the Aggression instead of the Hit and Run of Sonic in Smash, Shadow is a perfect character to represent that

These are the things Shadow can do to make the Smash Videogame more Complete. Sonic is also a Huge franchise that is still relevant to this day, getting Games, Movies, Cartoons, and Crossovers either right now or coming in the future. Sonic and his Cast of characters are not leaving, and I think that's a good reason for Nintendo to be down with adding in another Sonic character, and Sega themselves want the Sonic I.P to be the greatest it can be, first and foremost. It was Sonic that got into Minecraft as an example
 
SNEKeater

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Speed Weed said:
This is the exact reverse of how I feel
Click to expand...
Same. I totally understand if our next Sega character is another Sonic rep because of how popular the series is, but I personally don't care much about Sonic so I'd rather have a different new series get the opportunity.

I felt the same about Square Enix before we got Sephiroth. Once he got revealed I was very excited because in this case, I love Final Fantasy and more FF content was great for me, but part of me kinda wished for 2B or Neku to get the spot so we had a new Square franchise with a playable character.
 
pupNapoleon

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7NATOR said:
I quoted because I want a Excuse to talk about Shadow again, because there is something I got to add

Someone already linked this video on this thread, but Blastbox had a viewpoint on Fighter Pass 2 so far


His viewpoint is similar to the viewpoint of the 2nd chance theory that was (and is) popular in speculation. However one interesting observation occurred to me through this video

Fighter Pass 2 isn't just adding more fighters to the game, but it's also fixing holes in some of the representation in the game, in terms of what Nintendo and Sakurai intially envisioned for the game

-Steve and Kazuya are representatives of Franchises that Nintendo had wanted to be represented in Smash, but due to complications couldn't get in intially.

-Sephiroth helps makes the FF7 game feel much more complete in representation. However don't get it twisted, Sephiroth was the main reason for the Filling, He was just the vehicle for the other extra stuff (Music, Spirits, etc) to come with

-Min Min and Pyra/Mythra both showcase the Switch Library that people enjoy, which is usually something that has to wait a whole other Game and Console generation, but thanks to DLC can be included on the roster

Looking from this angle, while there are certain franchises (Kirby, Zelda, etc) that could fit this, Sonic is probably in an egregious situation since there are 2 main complaints that need to be addressed

-Despite the Large Popularity and Iconic status of the series, and the fact that the Sonic Supporting cast is among the most Iconic and popular in terms of gaming, along with Sonic being present in More Smash games than there ever has been, Sonic still only has 1 character to it's name

-While Sonic's Moveset is technically accurate, it has a lack of flair for alot of people, that people wanted to See when they envision Sonic in Smash

With that in Mind, Shadow specifically would be able to make the Sonic Representation more filling, though these reasons

-Addressing even getting a Sonic character, that's something more general any Sonic character can do, Like Eggman, Tails, & Knuckles. Shadow is the 2nd most popular character, the character the Head of Sonic Team (and maybe Sakurai) likes the most, and is the Sonic game the Japanese really love, along with SA2 being one of the few really high selling Sonic games there (along with SA1, 06, Unleashed, and OG Tilogy), so he can fill this role greatly

-Something Shadow does specifically is "Add a Sonic with more Flair"

As much as I am against the Idea of Sonic being an echo, in terms of his Creation and overall attributes, Shadow is an Echo of Sonic, a Reflection of the character. Both are very Speedy Hedgehogs, that Live free and make their own destiny, using the powers of not only themselves, but their friends. Shadow is just the Darker, more on Edge Interpretation of that. as an example, Shadow was the way that Sega was allowed to make a Game where "Sonic can use Guns"

In terms of Smash, Sonic is most likely not gonna get substantially changed because of Sakurai's Unwilling to make Drastic changes to Characters (even then, I Imagine it's harder to do with a 3rd party character like Sonic), and that I think they want to Keep Sonic simple in Concept, and more derived from his Classic Appearance

However Shadow is the way to add a Sonic that has more Flair and Complexity to him, without having to get rid of the old Sonic moveset for those that like it. Shadow is still just as Cocky and Confident as the Blue Blur, but he has a more added brutality, Focused, and Edgy nature to the way he portrays himself.

They can add more of the Modern elements onto Shadow in terms of Animations and moveset since Shadow is solely associated with the more Modern era of Sonic, This can include stuff like the Boost Attack, Light Speed Dash, Black Tornado, etc

Like how Kazuya has the Devil Gene to add more Flashiness and Complete moveset to the General Mishima Tekken Moveset, Shadow has his Chaos Powers to Make the Moveset Complete and Flashy, along with adding some Complexity. While Sonic is more general in terms of the moves he does, and focusing heavily on the General Core of his arsenals, Shadow would trade a focus on some of the General Abilities of Sonic (Spindash, Homing Attack) for the Added Versality of his Chaos Moves.

Of course the Chaos Moves would be his Specials, as Chaos Control, Chaos Spear, Chaos Warp, and Chaos Blast, with Super Shadow being his Final Smash

In terms of Gameplan, for those who wanted a Sonic that's more focused on the Aggression instead of the Hit and Run of Sonic in Smash, Shadow is a perfect character to represent that

These are the things Shadow can do to make the Smash Videogame more Complete. Sonic is also a Huge franchise that is still relevant to this day, getting Games, Movies, Cartoons, and Crossovers either right now or coming in the future. Sonic and his Cast of characters are not leaving, and I think that's a good reason for Nintendo to be down with adding in another Sonic character, and Sega themselves want the Sonic I.P to be the greatest it can be, first and foremost. It was Sonic that got into Minecraft as an example
Click to expand...
I'm confused by this. You agree that Shadow is best represented as an echo of Sonic... but then describe a moveset that is in no way echoing Sonic
 
Momotsuki

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pupNapoleon said:
When we talk about Squeenix we don't talk about Lara Croft, when we talk about Konami we don't talk about Frogger.
Sometimes this community just has huge blind spots.
Click to expand...
I agree with you on Lara Croft but they really just bastardized the hell out of Frogger... so yeah I kind of get that.
 
GilTheGreat19

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pupNapoleon said:
When we talk about Squeenix we don't talk about Lara Croft, when we talk about Konami we don't talk about Frogger.
Sometimes this community just has huge blind spots.
Click to expand...
I hate that you're right on Lara in particular.
She's so important to gaming yet barely gets talked about. I do think it could be because many just find her uninteresting, but still.
 
3BitSaurus

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GilTheGreat19 said:
I hate that you're right on Lara in particular.
She's so important to gaming yet barely gets talked about. I do think it could be because many just find her uninteresting, but still.
Click to expand...
She does get some attention. Issue is, most of the people here either don't seem too familiar with TR or support other characters more. Hard to keep the ball rolling like that.

I think a similar thing can be said of the remaining Konami peeps, like Frogger or Bill Rizer.
 
7NATOR

7NATOR

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pupNapoleon said:
I'm confused by this. You agree that Shadow is best represented as an echo of Sonic... but then describe a moveset that is in no way echoing Sonic
Click to expand...
Because I don't think Shadow should be an Echo of Sonic in Moveset. Shadow is an Echo/Reflection of Sonic, in that they have similar Ideals, Abilities, Body types, even some personality similarities.

The thing is that Shadow himself is more than just the Similarities, as he's meant to be a more Darker, different Interpretation of Sonic. While Sonic and Shadow have the Abilities to do the Same things as each other, The both of them are going to use their abilities in 2 different paths

Shadow, if anything, should have some reflection of Sonic moves in his Moveset, in that if you can compare the 2 characters, you can see the communality between the 2. However like how Shadow has the unique attributes from Sonic that make him an Interesting character, Shadow should ultimately have Different and Unique moves that while it might Take origin from Sonic's take on the moves, Shadow ultimately makes it his own

This is something Similar to how Donkey Kong and K.Rool play off each other, despite the both of them being their own unique characters, and I think that's probably how Shadow should play from Sonic, having his Origin of his moves played off from Sonic, but ultimately him putting his own Spin on things, well that and his Chaos powers
 
Speed Weed

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SNEKeater said:
Same. I totally understand if our next Sega character is another Sonic rep because of how popular the series is, but I personally don't care much about Sonic so I'd rather have a different new series get the opportunity.

I felt the same about Square Enix before we got Sephiroth. Once he got revealed I was very excited because in this case, I love Final Fantasy and more FF content was great for me, but part of me kinda wished for 2B or Neku to get the spot so we had a new Square franchise with a playable character.
Click to expand...
I think what gets me about that post is the portrayal of SEGA getting a character from another series as an actively bad outcome. Simply preferring they add a second Sonic character next? Sure, whatever, I don't agree but that would be your personal preference and that's none of my business. But actively going like "man it'd suck if SEGA went for a character from another series, it'd make no sense, Sonic is their biggest franchise"...kinda rubs me the wrong way. Like, at that point, it almost feels like actively calling for fans of other SEGA series to get nothing because Sonic is their biggest series so it should always get priority. Either that or it's the common "Sonic is underrepped" argument. Which is fair, I do think Sonic could use better content in Smash overall, but you don't need another whole character to do that. Like, at least they already have a character - personally, as a fan of SEGA's more "classic" output, I don't feel like I have anyone. Which I think is why I really don't like the idea of a second Sonic rep rn, and why the idea that it should get the next character cause it's bigger than any other property of theirs really bothers me.

Anyway since everyone is shilling SEGA characters now, I will take this opportunity to shill Opa-Opa and Phantasy Star, who I think would be the two most based picks of the plausible candidates at this point. Axel's pretty high up there too
 
GilTheGreat19

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Rie Sonomura said:
Maybe it’s the actress for the music part

anyone know who she is?
Click to expand...
Hmm maybe she could just either someone like:
A Nintendo JP employee paid an extra bit to be in that portion of the direct.

A Japanese person pulled off the streets by a Nintendo employee, asked to act out for the direct, and agreed.

Who knows.


Also, if they don't drop anything by 9 PM EST I really don't know what to make of all this.
It seems no Smash music was used in the Olympics Closing Ceremony either (it already happened)
 
Last edited:
Theguy123

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Rie Sonomura said:
Maybe it’s the actress for the music part

anyone know who she is?
Click to expand...
maybe but I doubt an actress in a 4/5 second advertisement for playing music on the go has that much power over Nintendo and sakurai that forces them to have to get rid of the direct.

Nintendo would have to absolutely suck at licensing and negotiating to let that happen and considering we’ve got cloud and sephiroth in this game along with other 3rd party IP’s I think it’s safe to say they know how to license and negotiate without screwing up.
 
Powerman293

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Yeah, if it is SEGA, my guess is SMT protag as well. Maybe not the one from V though since I think Flynn would be more appealing visually to the Smash demographic.
 
GilTheGreat19

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Powerman293 said:
Yeah, if it is SEGA, my guess is SMT protag as well. Maybe not the one from V though since I think Flynn would be more appealing visually to the Smash demographic.
Click to expand...
Also, even though it may be the fake

the 40 character 4 chan list has Flynn as one of the names
 
Rie Sonomura

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Yoshi-Thomas said:
Which music? Lifelight was first played in the November direct, so no reason to cancel this one.
If it's Jump Up Superstar, they would have taken this one down too.
But if it's something else that I don't know please explain.
Click to expand...
For the segment of the direct talking about the music, there’s an actress with long hair putting her switch in her purse and using it like a music player
 
M

MarioRaccoon

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I will make a 4chan post listing all potential candidates for CP11:

  • Master Chief
  • Sony Character
  • 2nd Bandai-Namco fighter (Digimon, Tales, Souls, etc)
  • Phoenix Wright
  • Level-5 rep (from Layton or Yokai-Watch IPs)
  • Crash
  • Rayman
  • Ryu Hayabusa
  • Bill and Lance
  • Falcom rep
  • Sora
  • SMT5 protagonist
  • Arle
  • AT promotion (Waluigi, Isaac, Shadow, Shovel Knight, etc)
  • Pokemon Gen 8

I will surely get the correct fighter so my leak will be right…

Or maybe not lol.
 
CannonStreak

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MarioRaccoon said:
I will make a 4chan post listing all potential candidates for CP11:

  • Master Chief
  • Sony Character
  • 2nd Bandai-Namco fighter (Digimon, Tales, Souls, etc)
  • Phoenix Wright
  • Level-5 rep (from Layton or Yokai-Watch IPs)
  • Crash
  • Rayman
  • Ryu Hayabusa
  • Bill and Lance
  • Falcom rep
  • Sora
  • SMT5 protagonist
  • Arle
  • AT promotion (Waluigi, Isaac, Shadow, Shovel Knight, etc)
  • Pokemon Gen 8

I will surely get the correct fighter so my leak will be right…

Or maybe not lol.
Click to expand...
Watch as it turns out as it is none of those characters, but a completely different character altogether, which I am expecting to happen, by the way.
 
Yoshi-Thomas

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Rie Sonomura said:
For the segment of the direct talking about the music, there’s an actress with long hair putting her switch in her purse and using it like a music player
Click to expand...
I doubt it. Same way a movie cannot be taken down from a streaming service if an actor is not happy with it, I don't think they would take it down just because an actress doesn't want to appear on it anymore. I'm not banking on that.

GilTheGreat19 said:
Also, even though it may be the fake

the 40 character 4 chan list has Flynn as one of the names
Click to expand...
It's not "may be". It's 100% fake.
You could twist it with Rex being on it instead of Pyra, sure.
You can also say they wanted Heihachi but Sakurai explained it should be Kazuya.
But absolutely nothing from ARMS makes it clearly appear as some guy who simply made a huge list of most speculated characters at the time, and thought we wouldn't get a character because we already had Spring-Man as an AT. And I'm saying that knowing Porky is on it.
 
GilTheGreat19

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SmashBoards: CP10 is probably gonna be someone we haven't talked about, but we speculate anyone, and anything can happen! Hit us with what ya got, Sakurai!

Sakurai: You guys remember Tekken?

MarioRaccoon said:
I will make a 4chan post listing all potential candidates for CP11:

  • Master Chief
  • Sony Character
  • 2nd Bandai-Namco fighter (Digimon, Tales, Souls, etc)
  • Phoenix Wright
  • Level-5 rep (from Layton or Yokai-Watch IPs)
  • Crash
  • Rayman
  • Ryu Hayabusa
  • Bill and Lance
  • Falcom rep
  • Sora
  • SMT5 protagonist
  • Arle
  • AT promotion (Waluigi, Isaac, Shadow, Shovel Knight, etc)
  • Pokemon Gen 8

I will surely get the correct fighter so my leak will be right…

Or maybe not lol.
Click to expand...
Good list.
 
CommanderZaktan

CommanderZaktan

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MarioRaccoon said:
I will make a 4chan post listing all potential candidates for CP11:

  • Master Chief
  • Sony Character
  • 2nd Bandai-Namco fighter (Digimon, Tales, Souls, etc)
  • Phoenix Wright
  • Level-5 rep (from Layton or Yokai-Watch IPs)
  • Crash
  • Rayman
  • Ryu Hayabusa
  • Bill and Lance
  • Falcom rep
  • Sora
  • SMT5 protagonist
  • Arle
  • AT promotion (Waluigi, Isaac, Shadow, Shovel Knight, etc)
  • Pokemon Gen 8

I will surely get the correct fighter so my leak will be right…

Or maybe not lol.
Click to expand...
You forgot to add the Doomslayer
 
Ivander

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pupNapoleon said:
When we talk about Squeenix we don't talk about Lara Croft, when we talk about Konami we don't talk about Frogger.
Sometimes this community just has huge blind spots.
Click to expand...
Lara Croft gets brought up quite often actually. Sure, she's not discussed often in terms of moveset since nobody really knows what they'll do with her guns and whatnot, but in terms of people talking about possible Square reps, Lara Croft is brought up quite often.

Frogger.....yeah, but the issue is more that nobody really knows what Konami will do, being the wild card they are. The reason Contra, Bomberman and Silent Hill get brought up more than Frogger is because Konami is still quite actively focusing on those series and it's understandable that Konami would certainly favor Contra, Silent Hill and even Bomberman over Frogger.
 
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