Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[pupNapoleon]

You know I feel Echoes had a lot more potential as a concept. We could have gotten more than just 7

if the next game builds directly off Ultimate or is even just straight up an expanded port, I would like to see more Echoes. Feel like Violet (Persona 5 Royal) is a shoo in if the “Jane” with the ponytail in Joker’s file is an indication

I think echoes were a wasted potential too- especially with the choices they made IN echoes. Most of them are, in my eyes, stupid choices.
They wanted to go with known characters that were well requested, eh? Is that why we got Impa, Dixie Kong, Shadow, Ms Pacman, Protoman, instead of a fourth Marth....
I also don't understand why the Melee clones that returned are not echoes. Dr Mario was an echo in Sm4sh.
Furthermore- it was a missed chance to get some of the characters in the game which are important to Nintendo's history.
Donkey Kong Jr comes to mind. So do the Octolings.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I could understand no Ms. PAC-MAN cause of the AtGames BS going on at the time, which I guess explains why she was a stage cameo and literally nothing else, not even a Spirit

woulda preferred her as an alt but oh well

 

[GilTheGreat19]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Ayo these Smash stock icons kinda hit

 

[Gengar84]

I'm not seeing any echo fighters taking the final spot. More than likely, it's a Capcom or Sega rep. I might've considered Konami but Contra's not a priority for them and Silent Hill...well if RE could only get a spirit event, chances are the psychological horror and more grotesque elements probably won't get in without being severely toned down since CERO's pretty strict.

It really feels wrong to me that Contra has absolutely nothing in Smash. It is one of the few remaining NES icons that definitely deserves at least something.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm not seeing any echo fighters taking the final spot. More than likely, it's a Capcom or Sega rep. I might've considered Konami but Contra's not a priority for them and Silent Hill...well if RE could only get a spirit event, chances are the psychological horror and more grotesque elements probably won't get in without being severely toned down since CERO's pretty strict.

Well... we were told the pass was no echoes

I could understand no Ms. PAC-MAN cause of the AtGames BS going on at the time, which I guess explains why she was a stage cameo and literally nothing else, not even a Spirit

woulda preferred her as an alt but oh well

I don't feel like an event that happened in the early 80s, leading to her creation, should matter thirty years later-- they are under one company now, and have been for a long while.

(Is this even what you're talking about?)

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Damn these Smash stock icons kinda hit

Before anyone says anything, no this does not mean a Sony rep will be our last fighter in Smash Ultimate.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Before anyone says anything, no this does not mean a Sony rep will be our last fighter in Smash Ultimate.

raises hand

 

[pupNapoleon]

It really feels wrong to me that Contra has absolutely nothing in Smash. It is one of the few remaining NES icons that definitely deserves at least something.

I don't understand why NES matters more than other eras. It's something I often see, particularly in relation to playable characters (which, undoubtedly still misses many characters... though I know you didn't say playable characters, you said anything)

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Before anyone says anything, no this does not mean a Sony rep will be our last fighter in Smash Ultimate.

NOO

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

raises hand

Kratos isn't getting into Smash either.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I don't understand why NES matters more than other eras. It's something I often see, particularly in relation to playable characters (which, undoubtedly still misses many characters... though I know you didn't say playable characters, you said anything)

If anything I want to see the DS generation get more love - our only current playable rep from that Gen is Lucario

so much potential - Phoenix Wright, Professor Layton, Neku Sakuraba, Derek Stiles from Trauma Center

 

[pupNapoleon]

Kratos isn't getting into Smash either.

I mean- better choice than Joker.

If anything I want to see the DS generation get more love - our only current playable rep from that Gen is Lucario

so much potential - Phoenix Wright, Professor Layton, Neku Sakuraba, Derek Stiles from Trauma Center

Yeah. I'd love some characters who scream DS or 3DS. I was a huge proponent for Dillon and Arcade Bunny.
I WANT A LOVEABLE, NON POKEMON, BUNNY!

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I don't understand why NES matters more than other eras. It's something I often see, particularly in relation to playable characters (which, undoubtedly still misses many characters... though I know you didn't say playable characters, you said anything)

Its mostly seen as the renaissance of gaming. Where many massive IPs were born, as such, people really want to see the start of an era be represented to its fullest. Especially since many IPs, like Contra, already have their Holders in the game in some form.

Thats not to say other eras aren’t important or in need of representation. I still hope the 2000s get more love.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Also before Brawl came out I was hoping Peach would have references to Super Princess Peach, maybe utilizing Perry and the Vibe Scepter powers

…I only NOW realize the Double Entendre of the Vibe Scepter

 

[Megadoomer]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Ayo these Smash stock icons kinda hit

Clearly, this is a hint that we're getting PlayStation All Stars 2!

(seriously, though, I doubt it - it would be weird if one of the Colossi from Shadow of the Colossus or Trico from the Last Guardian were playable, though I suppose they could be shrunk down if needed)

Not sure if the one between Sackboy and the Colossus is supposed to be Joel from the Last of Us or someone else.

 

[Twilord]

I really just want at least one more echo fighter


I mean come on, a 8 player battle of Echoes only? Yessir And I call Richter

Emolga - but they're Chrom style echo because Pichua and Pikachu are both cited to create it, with a small hint of an electrified Squirtle.

 

[Ivander]

Do you guys think there is any chance Smash will ever get a fully fleshed out create a character separate from Miis? I would love that more than almost anything but the combination of it being very difficult when Smash has so many completely different styles and the existence of Miis makes me a little doubtful.

No. The closest thing we'd probably get is the Miitopia Mii Maker. Just by what I've seen what it can do, it'd be a huge improvement.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Ayo these Smash stock icons kinda hit

Rachet, Sly Cooper, Jak, Sackboy
?, Nathan Drake, Toro, maybe Joel
Jin Sakai, Sweet Tooth, ?, the 3rd Colossus
?, Kratos, Aloy, that robot from that PSVR game Astro's Room/Astrobot or whatever it was called.

 

[FreeFox]

3 months is a while and this type of situation has happened before where he says one thing and goes completely against it

I guess everyone’s just forgotten about the time when sakurai said “I kinda hope you aren’t expecting many base roster characters as we’ve made bringing everyone back our main goal”

Same type of situation. We ended up getting 10 for base roster even though he said don’t expect many base roster characters so sakurai saying we’ll have to wait awhile doesn’t mean we’d have to wait till December

ISmash Bros Ultimate has the least amount of newcomers for base game of any smash game ever. How is that not in line with Sakurai´s comment about the amount of newcomers for base game? For comparison:

-Melee: 14 newcomers
-Brawl: 18 newcomers
-3DS&Wii U: 17 newcomers

As for the new time, I totally agree. "A while" doesnt mean anything. It could be a month, two months, four months. Its not evidence for anything until we get a date. I think people just want to stretch a completely ambiguos term to try to make a character seem more likely but its starting to sound ridiculous. Smash is not going to give a third party ridicululous special treatment when there is no benefit at all. Waiting for an arbitrary date to release a character just sounds arbitrary.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Also before Brawl came out I was hoping Peach would have references to Super Princess Peach, maybe utilizing Perry and the Vibe Scepter powers

…I only NOW realize the Double Entendre of the Vibe Scepter

I standby- Perry would have been a much better means to give Peach a counter. Toad shooting spores has nothing to do with Toad.

Its mostly seen as the renaissance of gaming. Where many massive IPs were born, as such, people really want to see the start of an era be represented to its fullest. Especially since many IPs, like Contra, already have their Holders in the game in some form.

Thats not to other eras aren’t important or in need of representation. I still hope the 2000s get more love.

NES defined the era of gaming- it's an entirely new market. Video games had also been around... ten years prior.
I don't think it's fair to even call it an era. It's a birth.
But I don't see why that means everything of that era needs to be included.
The Wii was also a renaissance.

 

[Inferno7]

I think echoes were a wasted potential too- especially with the choices they made IN echoes. Most of them are, in my eyes, stupid choices.
They wanted to go with known characters that were well requested, eh? Is that why we got Impa, Dixie Kong, Shadow, Ms Pacman, Protoman, a fourth Marth....
I also don't understand why the Melee clones that returned are not echoes. Dr Mario was an echo in Sm4sh.
Furthermore- it was a missed chance to get some of the characters in the game which are important to Nintendo's history.
Donkey Kong Jr comes to mind. So do the Octolings.

No offense but there's so much wrong with this post
Daisy was a long standing popular request and she's recognizable, and so is Ken. Chrom also was the most popular FE pick back then in Sm4sh, so I don't really see how they are "stupid choices".
I must also add that not all the "no-brainer" choices that people make actually are that obvious, and can't happen due to numerous reasons. In Dixie's case, she doesn't have a tail like Diddy which he uses for some attacks. Canonically speaking, Shadow has a plethora of moves that are unique to him called Chaos abilites, including the move (also the most recognizable) that the AT in game uses but I don't really wanna discuss further about this tbh. Proto Man also has his shield.
Furthermore, the echo concept didn't exist back then (it's entirely new to Ultimate), they were just that; clones without a label. Even if they fulfill a similar role, that doesn't necessarily apply here, especially since you said so yourself; the fact Doc and Pichu aren't echoes now, what makes you think they would be classified as such back then?
I DO agree, however, that the echo fighter concept was wasted in hindsight, considering ease of implementation and crowdpleaser choices.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Clearly, this is a hint that we're getting PlayStation All Stars 2!

(seriously, though, I doubt it - it would be weird if one of the Colossi from Shadow of the Colossus or Trico from the Last Guardian were playable, though I suppose they could be shrunk down if needed)

Not sure if the one between Sackboy and the Colossus is supposed to be Joel from the Last of Us or someone else.

I think Joel is the person vertically between Sly and Sweet Tooth.

The dude you were describing.. idk who that is.




Also I wouldn't be surprised if the Smash stock icon art style was an unironic inspiration for this. Neat idea.

 

[Megadoomer]

I think Joel is the person vertically between Sly and Sweet Tooth.

The dude you were describing.. idk who that is.

I thought the one between Sly and Sweet Tooth was Nathan Drake.

Rachet, Sly Cooper, Jak, Sackboy
?, Nathan Drake, Toro, maybe Joel
Jin Sakai, Sweet Tooth, ?, the 3rd Colossus
?, Kratos, Aloy, that robot from that PSVR game Astro's Room/Astrobot or whatever it was called.

Question mark on row 2 is the protagonist of Journey, question mark on row 3 is Trico from the Last Guardian (I only knew that from a Twitter comment - my brain jumped to Ori from Ori and the Blind Forest for some reason), and the question mark on row 4 (the one beside Kratos) is Atreus from the new God of War game.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

AMOGUS ඞ

 

[Megadoomer]

AMOGUS ඞ
View attachment 324385

It's actually this guy from Journey.

 

[MattX20]

If anything I want to see the DS generation get more love - our only current playable rep from that Gen is Lucario

so much potential - Phoenix Wright, Professor Layton, Neku Sakuraba, Derek Stiles from Trauma Center

It's frustrating because I'm hoping for Phoenix and Layton also, but people are on the CAPCOM IS OUT train just beacuse MH and DMC are out with the Mii Costumes. They've got more IPs to pick from and Sakurai has made it clear that recognizability or iconic status isn't the most important aspect, it's if the character that's fun to play that matters most.

 

[Schnee117]

No. The closest thing we'd probably get is the Miitopia Mii Maker. Just by what I've seen what it can do, it'd be a huge improvement.

Rachet, Sly Cooper, Jak, Sackboy
?, Nathan Drake, Toro, maybe Joel
Jin Sakai, Sweet Tooth, ?, the 3rd Colossus
?, Kratos, Aloy, that robot from that PSVR game Astro's Room/Astrobot or whatever it was called.

Journey character
Trico
BOI Atreus

 

[Theguy123]

ISmash Bros Ultimate has the least amount of newcomers for base game of any smash game ever. How is that not in line with Sakurai´s comment about the amount of newcomers for base game? For comparison:

-Melee: 14 newcomers
-Brawl: 18 newcomers
-3DS&Wii U: 17 newcomers

As for the new time, I totally agree. "A while" doesnt mean anything. It could be a month, two months, four months. Its not evidence for anything until we get a date. I think people just want to stretch a completely ambiguos term to try to make a character seem more likely but its starting to sound ridiculous. Smash is not going to give a third party ridicululous special treatment when there is no benefit at all. Waiting for an arbitrary date to release a character just sounds arbitrary.

10 is still a lot even if it’s not as many as previous titles. Imagine I eat 20 chocolate bars a week and then say I’m not gonna eat a lot this week and then go and eat 10 bars. That’s still a lot even if it’s smaller than previously.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

It's actually this guy from Journey.

I feel like whenever I see something red with a circle in the middle of it I now think of Among Us.

 

[pupNapoleon]

No offense but there's so much wrong with this post
Daisy was a long standing popular request and she's recognizable, and so is Ken. Chrom also was the most popular FE pick back then in Sm4sh, so I don't really see how they are "stupid choices".
I must also add that not all the "no-brainer" choices that people make actually are that obvious, and can't happen due to numerous reasons. In Dixie's case, she doesn't have a tail like Diddy which he uses for some attacks. Canonically speaking, Shadow has a plethora of moves that are unique to him called Chaos abilites, including the move (also the most recognizable) that the AT in game uses but I don't really wanna discuss further about this tbh. Proto Man also has his shield.
Furthermore, the echo concept didn't exist back then (it's entirely new to Ultimate), they were just that; clones without a label. Even if they fulfill a similar role, that doesn't necessarily apply here, especially since you said so yourself; the fact Doc and Pichu aren't echoes now, what makes you think they would be classified as such back then?
I DO agree, however, that the echo fighter concept was wasted in hindsight, considering ease of implementation and crowdpleaser choices.

They chose echoes he already wanted to add. Legitimately, if they wanted to add characters important to Nintendo, Octoling was a clear inclusion.
As for your others.

Diddy's tail attacks were specifically removed, weren't they?
Shadow plays close to identically like Sonic in almost every single game he is in. It's untrue to the character to force a fully unique moveset upon him. The two signature things he does are Chaos Control and Chaos Spear- and both are animations that could be used from other characters. Considering Sonic is reduced to his primal moves, it would either be Shadow doing the same, or having two characters that don't feel like what they feel to be in game.
Chrom. Not even gonna comment. Fire Emblem is always the exception, the special case, so there is no reason for it not to be this 5th or 6th or 7th time.
Dr Mario was added for the exact reasons of Lucina and Dark Pit, in the same game. Sure, he existed before, but that isn't why he was brought back. The three of them were part of the same categorization in Sm4sh. It's just marketing that he didn't keep that moniker.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

OK I figured some of them out

AMOGUS ඞ
View attachment 324385

Wow bro that's mad funny but fr that's the Protagonist from the game "Journey". Seems to be one of the biggest Playstation indie games.

The creature to the right of Sweet tooth is Trico from "The Last Guardian"

And yea Megadoomer that was Nate. You were right.

<-you can see a shaven beard and the cuts below Nate's left eye.
Joel is guy to the far right on the same row as Nate

 

[Guynamednelson]

but people are on the CAPCOM IS OUT train just beacuse MH and DMC are out with the Mii Costumes

The THERE NEEEEEDS TO BE A CAPCOM REP bandwagon was started as a means of bringing back all their costumes. But now they're all back, and more Capcom costumes got added without a rep, so...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Also before Brawl came out I was hoping Peach would have references to Super Princess Peach, maybe utilizing Perry and the Vibe Scepter powers

…I only NOW realize the Double Entendre of the Vibe Scepter

Spoiler: Cursed Knowledge

Bowser uses this item during his boss fight.

You're welcome.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

NES defined the era of gaming- it's an entirely new market. Video games had also been around... ten years prior.
I don't think it's fair to even call it a genre. It's a birth.

Yeah, at best you can call it an aesthetic, but calling it a genre just doesn’t make much sense.

But I don't see why that means everything of that era needs to be included.

Thats fair, but its not like people want Contra and the Battletoads exclusively because they started on the NES. They’re both beloved series with a massive legacy.

The Wii was also a renaissance.

I guess, but they aren’t even close in terms of importance.

The NES saved the gaming market and set the foundation for all consoles moving forward.

The Wii was a one hit wonder who’s successor failed painfully, and its innovations were largely ignored by the rest of the industry.

 

[Theguy123]

They chose echoes he already wanted to add. Legitimately, if they wanted to add characters important to Nintendo, Octoling was a clear inclusion.
As for your others.

Diddy's tail attacks were specifically removed, weren't they?
Shadow plays close to identically like Sonic in almost every single game he is in. It's untrue to the character to force a fully unique moveset upon him. The two signature things he does are Chaos Control and Chaos Spear- and both are animations that could be used from other characters. Considering Sonic is reduced to his primal moves, it would either be Shadow doing the same, or having two characters that don't feel like what they feel to be in game.

I don’t remember shadow being the same as sonic in

sonic colours ds
Sonic forces
Sonic generations
Sonic boom
Sonic boom tv
Sonic x
Shadow the hedgehog
Sa2
Sonic and the black knite
Sonic chronicles
Sonic boom the phone game

all these are literally games or shows that he’s different from sonic in and before someone says “he plays the same in sonic forces as sonic” he doesn’t, he has the light speed dash which is something sonic doesn’t have and he has his abilities in the cutscenes

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...but calling it a genre just doesn’t make much senss.

Booo get off the stage!

 

[GilTheGreat19]

AMOGUS ඞ
View attachment 324385

Tell us, sweet child

How many brain cells do you have left?

 

[Gengar84]

I standby- Perry would have been a much better means to give Peach a counter. Toad shooting spores has nothing to do with Toad.


NES defined the era of gaming- it's an entirely new market. Video games had also been around... ten years prior.
I don't think it's fair to even call it an era. It's a birth.
But I don't see why that means everything of that era needs to be included.
The Wii was also a renaissance.

I personally think each era of gaming should be represented roughly equally. I brought up NES because we have yet to get a DLC character from that era. I can’t deny that I’m also probably a bit biased because I grew up with the NES so it’s characters are more sentimental to me.

 

[Cosmic77]

My biggest gripe with Echoes is that a majority of the ones added in Ultimate could easily pass as costumes; nearly perfect carbon copies of the character they were inspired from, and that doesn't feel fair for characters like Daisy and Dark Samus. Both have plenty of material for at least one unique attack. Chrom is a good example of what we could've gotten, which is ironic considering how he's an Echo of a semi-clone. Making Daisy and Dark Samus more unique than Chrom should've been braindead easy.

Not saying that every Echo needs to be Ken, but man, it would be a hollow victory for me if one of my most wanted characters finally got in Smash, only for said character to have a nearly identical moveset slapped on them.

 

[osby]

Are we talking about additional echo fighters?

Y'all not ready for her.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Also before Brawl came out I was hoping Peach would have references to Super Princess Peach, maybe utilizing Perry and the Vibe Scepter powers

…I only NOW realize the Double Entendre of the Vibe Scepter

Ah, yes:

I kinda miss the weird **** some Nintendo games got away with pre-Wii era.