Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[MamaLuigi123456]

The idea of a reboot is one I'm mixed on.

On one hand, it might be cool to see them try to revamp some of the existing mechanics and characters. Maybe give some characters that have been around since Smash 64 and Melee a fresh coat of paint to make them better and/or take more inspiration from their home series. Would also help to distinguish it from Ultimate (and the rest of the series by extension) meaning that the two would still have a consistent meta, unlike Smash 4 which was eclipsed by its successor. Overall, I'm not too opposed to the idea.

But on the other hand, I am vehemently against the idea of nuking the roster and just having 20-30 of the "essential" characters like many are assuming it will. That's just a straight downgrade no matter how many bells and whistles you try to add imo

 

[DarthEnderX]

Honestly, I think we could combine the idea of having all the characters together with the final fight in WOL with both Galeem and Dharkon. Imagine a trailer featuring every playable character in the series, verses Galeem and Dharkon, Dracula, Marx, Ganon, Giga Bowser, Rathalos, Galleom and Galeem and Dharkon's clones of the playable fighters.

So basically this, but it just keeps going until every Fighter and Boss is shown.

 

[Baba]

I don't think soft reboot theories hold much water. Smash's biggest selling points are its simple gameplay and its roster. Nintendo sometimes makes weird choices but I have a hard time seeing them axing both just so that the next title will be different.

It's more likely that the next game will be like Brawl after Melee: there will be some cuts but also improvements in other areas to make up for it. I think most characters we speculate regularly have a chance to get in either way.

I hope you're right. After Ultimate, I don't think any roster cuts would go over very well with people. I'm just very curious where things will go from here.

 

[pupNapoleon]

This isn't exactly DLC related but it sort of relates to newcomers in general.

What's the general consensus here about where Smash goes after Ultimate?
I see so many people saying "so and so is definitely gonna get in next time", but that sort of is running under the assumption that Smash 6 is going to be another "everyone is here" scenario. Like yeah, the latest wave of Mii Costumes was full of likely newcomers, but only if the roster keeps expanding.

I'm kind of under the impression that the next game will have a severely reduced roster. A soft reboot type of thing. Lots of new mechanics.

I hope I'm wrong because I'd love for them to just build on Ultimate's foundation forever. Just make the character/stage roster bigger and bigger. That's the direction I'd take the series at least.

I think that it is absolutely delusional to think anything but one of these two things will happen:

• A directors cut, with this game, plus more tacked on content (which I believe would be if the licensing had a claus for future games)
• A reboot, wherein it goes in a new direction, with a hefty amount of cuts, complete character reworking, likely a new director, and focus perhaps on story, or other modes.

To think it will be minus just some characters is absurd- it is moving backward, and even if it cut some and added others, it is just moving sideways. That's not going to happen.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Hero's actual debut(as it's a Class, not a specific character) is officially in 1989

No.

I mean, yes, it's ALSO a class. But it's also the designation for the player character of every mainline game.

it gets kind of silly to pretend Erdrick was given anything special.

They DID make his armor a Mii.

Even for Spirits, only Dragon Quest 1 and Dragon Quest 11 have multiple unique spirits.

I feel like it's a bit disingenuous to call Slime or the other monsters "DQ1 Spirits", when those monsters appear in most DQ games. That's like calling Goomba a "SMB1 spirit".

Also, the Monster Spirits specifically use their designs from the game they debuted in

...DQ monsters look the same in every game.

 

[subterrestrial]

The 100th DLC, or 100th fighter, total?

100th overall

 

[DarthEnderX]

What are 3 characters that you’re extremely confident in being the final spot. Your soo confident about them that you’ve never been more confident in your entire life.

How can you be that confident...and still have 3 possibilities?!

It's Hayabusa! No 2nd and 3rd place!

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don't think soft reboot theories hold much water. Smash's biggest selling points are its simple gameplay and its roster. Nintendo sometimes makes weird choices but I have a hard time seeing them axing both just so that the next title will be different.

It's more likely that the next game will be like Brawl after Melee: there will be some cuts but also improvements in other areas to make up for it. I think most characters we speculate regularly have a chance to get in either way.

This is the most rational outcome imo. When it comes to Smash 6 discourse is always split between "they have to bring everyone back forever" and "they can't bring everyone back so they have to reboot or no one will buy it" and those are two positions too extreme to hold with such confidence. They'll probably just treat Everyone is Here like they treated a story mode or custom moves; something that they made happen for one game that doesn't necessarily have to become a series staple.

 

[Inferno7]

This isn't exactly DLC related but it sort of relates to newcomers in general.

What's the general consensus here about where Smash goes after Ultimate?
I see so many people saying "so and so is definitely gonna get in next time", but that sort of is running under the assumption that Smash 6 is going to be another "everyone is here" scenario. Like yeah, the latest wave of Mii Costumes was full of likely newcomers, but only if the roster keeps expanding.

I'm kind of under the impression that the next game will have a severely reduced roster. A soft reboot type of thing. Lots of new mechanics.

I hope I'm wrong because I'd love for them to just build on Ultimate's foundation forever. Just make the character/stage roster bigger and bigger. That's the direction I'd take the series at least.

Nothing of what people commonly speculate will happen save for the "Not everyone is Here" again thing. They'll just stick to the same formula and cut irrelevant or redundant picks such as the Links, FE clones and Pichu I imagine, Plant as well because of the hate and bonus char thing. The 3rd parties are a coinflip of whether or not do the companies still want to take part on the game but that's up to interpretation. In my case I assume Square will lose either Seph or Hero, heck maybe all of its reps altogether because of how stingy they are with content that's not shill-able and ofc the copyright issues.

As for new characters, they will likely feature some new third parties that people want such as a Sonic rep, Dante, Lloyd or Sol Badguy, which would be relatively easy to get. Also Bandana Dee or Dixie Kong which have been requested for ages, and ofc the obligatory FE and/or Pokémon shill.

 

[pupNapoleon]

100th overall

Alright.. now...
If the next 18 characters past this release were the hypothetical following, would you still not buy more?
Crash, Sora, Master Chief, Dixie Kong, Chorus Kids, Balloon Fighter, Chibi Robo, Rayman, Spyro, Lara Croft, Frogger, Ryu Hayabusa, Waluigi, Paper Mario, and the four Champions, separately.

This is the most rational outcome imo. When it comes to Smash 6 discourse is always split between "they have to bring everyone back forever" and "they can't bring everyone back so they have to reboot or no one will buy it" and those are two positions too extreme to hold with such confidence. They'll probably just treat Everyone is Here like they treated a story mode or custom moves; something that they made happen for one game that doesn't necessarily have to become a series staple.

The thing with this, is that- though Sakurai has said many times that he probably cannot add too many more characters- this is the first time we have seen it be the case. Even with the Sm4sh game as a base to add from which to port in the majority of this games characters (returning characters were... 8 total, and of those, two were still mostly based on other characters). Outside of this, we got a total of 6 unique newcomers, before DLC.
EIther they do bring everyone back and add on, or they cut the ones to which they don't have the rights, reuse the same assets, and still only have time to add 6ish more + echoes? This is just a different version of Ultimate- Ultimate minus x amount, plus y amount more. But that breaks the entire premise of everyone is here, so if characters are cut- which wouldn't offer an equivalent amount of newcomers, as the devs aren't given more development time from this decision, as they would be creating new characters, rather than porting majority of it- then... what is the point?

Extreme is somewhat the only direction to go for the next game. I've never actually seen a logistically thought out argument of what people do expect. How exactly will a game work, or be an improvement, to add the same amount of characters back that are removed? Or, conversely, how does one see it possible to get, say, 70 of the current character roster, and then get, what, 30 more? I have asked users this before, but have not gotten a thought out answer. Just 'a couple cuts and then a whole bunch more.' Imprecise as an answer on surface level, and completely hollow as far as how the game production would actually go.

Hence, what I actually think will happen, is that the next game will just be a deluxe port on an upgraded Switch (I loved the idea of it being called Smash Ultimate Encore), with more characters from fresh Nintendo worlds, to keep it current, old characters whom Sakurai has had more time to see some inspiration upon, and more of the choices of outside characters from companies that reached out to Sakurai, personally.

Then, in the next full new system, I think this updated version, which would probably have rollback code, courtesy of the Tekken director, will be a day one launch. But a few years later, we get an entirely new take on Smash. Still, this previously ported version will be the Street Fighter II of modern day.

 

[DarthEnderX]

When it comes to Smash 6 discourse is always split between "they have to bring everyone back forever"

It's that one.

They'll probably just treat Everyone is Here like they treated a story mode or custom moves; something that they made happen for one game that doesn't necessarily have to become a series staple.

The difference is, unlike those other two, Everyone Is Here was pretty much universally beloved by the entire fanbase.

It'd be like if GG Strive came out and they suddenly went back to sprite graphics.

 

[ZelDan]

When it comes to what comes after Ultimate, I think Smash 6 will have cuts, but I don't think it will have THAT many cuts. Ideally we'd see a sizeable pool of newcomers as well with some popular and fan-demanded characters, along with new modes, hopefully more of a focus on new stages, and for the love of god please less dumb online.

I definitely don't see Smash 6 going to either of the extremes many of the Smash fanbase thinks it will. It seems like so many people think the next Smash game will either be Ultimate again and we''l get 100+ characters or some big reboot with only 20 characters or whatever. The former not sounding feasible after Sakurai basically said the Ultimate would probably be a one time deal, and the latter likely not happening either because even if the next game does have cuts and a smaller roster, Nintendo still realizes that characters/roster are a very huge deal for Smash, so they'll still likely want to have the roster be large to some extent, even if not Ultimate large.

If I had to make a prediction, I think between its base game and DLC, Smash 6 will manage to muster something above what Smash 4 managed, so 60-something characters, maybe 70-something.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

This isn't exactly DLC related but it sort of relates to newcomers in general.

What's the general consensus here about where Smash goes after Ultimate?
I see so many people saying "so and so is definitely gonna get in next time", but that sort of is running under the assumption that Smash 6 is going to be another "everyone is here" scenario. Like yeah, the latest wave of Mii Costumes was full of likely newcomers, but only if the roster keeps expanding.

I'm kind of under the impression that the next game will have a severely reduced roster. A soft reboot type of thing. Lots of new mechanics.

I hope I'm wrong because I'd love for them to just build on Ultimate's foundation forever. Just make the character/stage roster bigger and bigger. That's the direction I'd take the series at least.

Yeah I'd rather they continue supporting Smash Ultimate than end it with Challenger Pack 11. Like there are so many more third party characters that they could choose from so that more dream matchups can be made.

If the next Smash Bros has cuts which it most definitely will then it's going to be the first game in the series to have less characters than it's predecessor which I think will split the fanbase again like Brawl did so it'd better arrive with some amazing game modes and stuff to fill in what Ultimate lacked. However considering how Nintendo likes to drip feed it's consumer base, I have doubts they'll pack the next game full of content to make up for the reduced roster.

So basically, It's all downhill from here.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Seriously though- I'd love for someone to explain to me how they see the next game going.
It took the entire development cycle of this base game to bring back everyone, even though majority of the characters were ported from the previous game. On this, we got six newcomers.
How would the next game have more content, with only a few cuts- when cuts don't offer an equivalent time for the same number of newcomers?

I definitely don't see Smash 6 going to either of the extremes many of the Smash fanbase thinks it will. It seems like so many people think the next Smash game will either be Ultimate again and we''l get 100+ characters or some big reboot with only 20 characters or whatever. The former not sounding feasible after Sakurai basically said the Ultimate would probably be a one time deal, and the latter likely not happening either because even if the next game does have cuts and a smaller roster, Nintendo still realizes that characters/roster are a very huge deal for Smash, so they'll still likely want to have the roster be large to some extent, even if not Ultimate large.

I think this underlined reason is exactly why I suspect that Nintendo included a clause in the licensing contract, to allow Ultimate as a game to continue to rerelease on future consoles. Which is why I expect us to get continued editions, possibly with more and more content- though that may invalidate such a clause.

However, it is for this exact same reason, that Nintendo recognizes the appeal of the characters, that they would see there is no way to do more than Ultimate, and thus, just come up with a new idea for the series of Smash- because otherwise, the description is inherently Smash -

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

This isn't exactly DLC related but it sort of relates to newcomers in general.

What's the general consensus here about where Smash goes after Ultimate?

While I don't think the roster will be Everyone is here, I dont think that necessarily means the roster will be reduced by a whole lot. I do think we'll see some reworks into the earlier fighters to bring them more in line with current gen fighters, which will require a lot of re-animating and re-balancing. So they might not have time to do everyone. Many third parties might have to be dropped from base game because of licensing. At least I think that's what Sakurai was hinting at.

But there's no reason not to return most of the first parties. I think we could see some reps be replaced by newer ones, and the over-populated series be scaled down a little bit. I'd hope to see some Assist Trophies promoted, especially important characters to the their respective series like Isaac, Alucard, Bomberman, Zero; then throw in Waluigi at this point.

Dunno where it will go from there. They'll know they need to do something different than just 'Ultimate but with less characters'. I know I probably won't be interested if Isaac isn't playable. At least Ultimate has Hero.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Rayman, Ezio, and the Prince of Persia

3 great characters right there

Prince of Persia being the oldest, since 1989. Imagine if it’s him to tie in with the Sands of Time remake

I was thinking one of the Mario Rabbids for a fourth too

 

[Perkilator]

If the last Fighter ISN'T revealed at a Fall Direct, do you think we'll at least get the announcement for the last presentation there?

 

[zeldasmash]

If the last Fighter ISN'T revealed at a Fall Direct, do you think we'll at least get the announcement for the last presentation there?

Possibly. If it the fighter isn't revealed at a Fall Direct, it will probably be at The Game Awards. It is possible they could announce that it will be announced at The Game Awards in the same Direct but there is no way to know for sure.

 

[chocolatejr9]

If the last Fighter ISN'T revealed at a Fall Direct, do you think we'll at least get the announcement for the last presentation there?

Depending on who the character is, I can see that happening.

Then again, my main reason for thinking that is that CyGames asked Sakurai to have Euden's announcement coincide with Dragalia Lost's Third Year Anniversary, so I may not be the best judge here...

 

[Theguy123]

If the last Fighter ISN'T revealed at a Fall Direct, do you think we'll at least get the announcement for the last presentation there?

Probably. The way I see it is if it’s not revealed at a direct then it’s getting revealed in a stand alone direct because there’s no way on earth they’re making us wait till the game awards for the reveal.

I’d also say our best chance of any M rated character (if we’re getting one) would be a normal direct as the directs are usually RP-M and our best chance of a lesser known series would be a normal direct as well.

 

[RileyXY1]

Probably. The way I see it is if it’s not revealed at a direct then it’s getting revealed in a stand alone direct because there’s no way on earth they’re making us wait till the game awards for the reveal.

I’d also say our best chance of any M rated character (if we’re getting one) would be a normal direct as the directs are usually RP-M and our best chance of a lesser known series would be a normal direct as well.

That's what I expect. I believe that the final character will most likely be revealed in September, in either a standard Fall direct or in a standalone presentation.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

If the last Fighter ISN'T revealed at a Fall Direct, do you think we'll at least get the announcement for the last presentation there?

Possibly.

I have 3 ideas, though.

1) Let's say the character is from a game where, like ARMS, there is no main character. A game like League of Legends. They could do a "The final character is from this game...Tune in to find out who on ___!"

2) If the character ties in with a game that they want to reveal in the September direct (October direct feels unlikely to me; we also haven't done an October direct since 2013), they could just flat out reveal the character there.

3) The character gets a Byleth-style standalone live presentation reveal.


Bonus Tin Foil Hat idea
The character is a big name third party, and Nintendo makes us wait until TGA 2021 for the reveal
I'm just saying: It was a 6 month gap between Joker and Hero's reveals, so another 6 month gap is possible.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'll be legit pissed if they wait all the way until the game awards to announce the last character. They obviously don't need 6+ months to make a character, so that's just dragging their feet to the very end just for the hell of it.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Geoff Keighley's TGA 2021 script boutta be like:

"That's right everyone! God Of War Ragnorak is real, there's the amazing gameplay, and shoutout to Santa Monica Studious for this project! And speaking of Kratos, take a look at this next SMASHING reveal!"

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I'll be legit pissed if they wait all the way until the game awards to announce the last character. They obviously don't need 6+ months to make a character, so that's just dragging their feet to the very end just for the hell of it.

Yeah, as appealing as the whole “end on the exact event we started on” sounds neat. Should we really wait half a goddamn year to make that happen?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Possibly.

I have 3 ideas, though.

1) Let's say the character is from a game where, like ARMS, there is no main character. A game like League of Legends. They could do a "The final character is from this game...Tune in to find out who on ___!"

2) If the character ties in with a game that they want to reveal in the September direct (October direct feels unlikely to me; we also haven't done an October direct since 2013), they could just flat out reveal the character there.

3) The character gets a Byleth-style standalone live presentation reveal.


Bonus Tin Foil Hat idea
The character is a big name third party, and Nintendo makes us wait until TGA 2021 for the reveal
I'm just saying: It was a 6 month gap between Joker and Hero's reveals, so another 6 month gap is possible.

LoL guessing game

bonus points if they don’t show ANY pictures of possible candidates

have fun guessing who it is among 150+ playable characters

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Multiple characters have taken more than "6 months". Lucario alone took a full year to originally create. If it's taking that long, yeah... it kind of does. Min Min alone took way longer than expected, being almost a half year, and that's him noting two delays. 6 months is the average for regular newcomers. Only clones and echoes take shorter time. Characters taking more than 6 months is actually pretty logical if they're complicated.

These things aren't easy, and it sounds pretty clearly like it's going to be a complicated mechanic again(Min Min, Steve, etc). If we're waiting till TGA, then it's pretty obviously not "easy" to get done fast. Game development isn't easy after all. I wouldn't be surprised if we wait that long. Just like September wouldn't surprise me either, due to the character being far more simplistic(Sakurai did confirm he needs more time, so it's clearly not Sephiroth-tier of simplicity. It might be closer to Pythra, who are semi-clones of each, so).

 

[Cap'n Jack]

1. Sgt. Cortez - TimeSplitters being revived during Super Smash Bros Ultimate's life cycle is making me believe that Cortez might actually have a legitimate shot.

He is also directly related to James Bond and Joanna Dark who were once closely related to Nintendo during the N64 era. He might be easier to get than those two, so there is some string of logic that might lead to Cortez

 

[GilTheGreat19]

have fun guessing who it is among 150+ playable characters

So you're saying Bard has a chance...

 

[RileyXY1]

Possibly.

I have 3 ideas, though.

1) Let's say the character is from a game where, like ARMS, there is no main character. A game like League of Legends. They could do a "The final character is from this game...Tune in to find out who on ___!"

2) If the character ties in with a game that they want to reveal in the September direct (October direct feels unlikely to me; we also haven't done an October direct since 2013), they could just flat out reveal the character there.

3) The character gets a Byleth-style standalone live presentation reveal.


Bonus Tin Foil Hat idea
The character is a big name third party, and Nintendo makes us wait until TGA 2021 for the reveal
I'm just saying: It was a 6 month gap between Joker and Hero's reveals, so another 6 month gap is possible.

In FP2 so far the gaps have been way smaller, at around 2-3 months. The exception of course was Min Min to Steve and that's because Steve himself was a pain in the ass to develop. And even then, in the case of Joker to Hero we didn't get six months of nothing, as Piranha Plant dropped in February and Joker himself dropped in April.

 

[Theguy123]

I do wonder if this last character is gonna be the “popular fan choice” character.

You know, the one that’s a fan request character. None of the characters in this pass have been because of fan requests so far even though they have been popular picks.

Min min was a special request from the arms creator

Sephiroth was to fix clouds content

Pyra and myphra was base roster content that didn’t make the cut and not specifically that “fan requested character” yes it has its popularity but it was more of putting them in because they were too late for base roster

And Steve was more of a business situation since he comes from the best selling game in the world.

We’re still missing that “popular fan pick”. It could be someone who’s massive or it could be someone who is just midish or it could be someone who is small.

We’ll know it’s the popular pick though because sakurai would specifically mention it like he did with banjo.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

And even then, in the case of Joker to Hero we didn't get six months of nothing, as Piranha Plant dropped in February and Joker himself dropped in April.

This is true.
We'll see, I suppose.


Theguy123 So using this infamous chart

^This data was based on Twitter responses after DLC character reveals on official Nintendo Twitter accounts. This ofc doesn't represent the opinion of every Smash Bros. player in the respective regions, but its gives an idea as to what kinds of characters people in different regions want.

Some of these characters could've been popular ballot picks back in the Smash 4 ballot days. So borrowing your quote "popular fan pick", we can see a few of these have already happened RELATIVE TO ULTIMATE. Byleth, Steve, and Sephiroth. Perhaps Steve was a popular ballot pick? The ballot opened in April 2015, and we didn't know about Cloud yet for months so perhaps it's not possible that Sephiroth was even a popular choice.

And I can't really explain all the other characters you see. Some of these guys were possibly high placing ballot picks, some weren't. We don't know.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So you're saying Bard has a chance...

RIP Evelynn tho, she ain’t for good boys and girls of all ages

 

[RileyXY1]

I do wonder if this last character is gonna be the “popular fan choice” character.

You know, the one that’s a fan request character. None of the characters in this pass have been because of fan requests so far even though they have been popular picks.

Min min was a special request from the arms creator

Sephiroth was to fix clouds content

Pyra and myphra was base roster content that didn’t make the cut and not specifically that “fan requested character” yes it has its popularity but it was more of putting them in because they were too late for base roster

And Steve was more of a business situation since he comes from the best selling game in the world.

We’re still missing that “popular fan pick”. It could be someone who’s massive or it could be someone who is just midish or it could be someone who is small.

We’ll know it’s the popular pick though because sakurai would specifically mention it like he did with banjo.

I don't think that we need such a character.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Give this a listen if you can, y'al!:

Song sounds much better without vocals

 

[Garteam]

Imagine we get an assist trophy promotion but it's this guy:

I'd be pretty happy, personally. I want to see what Sakurai had in mind for him during Smash for Wii U/3DS' planning stage.

 

[Ivander]

I'll be legit pissed if they wait all the way until the game awards to announce the last character. They obviously don't need 6+ months to make a character, so that's just dragging their feet to the very end just for the hell of it.

I mean, if it's a character that requires changing quite a bunch of stuff like with Steve with the stages and textures or something similar that requires alot of programming, I could see why it would take 6+ months.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I do wonder if this last character is gonna be the “popular fan choice” character.

You know, the one that’s a fan request character. None of the characters in this pass have been because of fan requests so far even though they have been popular picks.

Min min was a special request from the arms creator

Sephiroth was to fix clouds content

Pyra and myphra was base roster content that didn’t make the cut and not specifically that “fan requested character” yes it has its popularity but it was more of putting them in because they were too late for base roster

And Steve was more of a business situation since he comes from the best selling game in the world.

We’re still missing that “popular fan pick”. It could be someone who’s massive or it could be someone who is just midish or it could be someone who is small.

We’ll know it’s the popular pick though because sakurai would specifically mention it like he did with banjo.

I think Sephiroth fits the fan pick.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Don’t they work on more than one character at a time? Unless the next character is even harder to make than what they did for Steve, then I don’t see why we’d be waiting ‘til December unless they want to for some marketing reasons…and I’m not sure which character would be harder than Steve…

 

[MooMew64]

I'll be legit pissed if they wait all the way until the game awards to announce the last character. They obviously don't need 6+ months to make a character, so that's just dragging their feet to the very end just for the hell of it.

TBH I think it's pretty unlikely this'll happen.

Characters aren't worked on one by one: By the time Kazuya came out, whoever's last has already most likely had considerable work done on them and is most likely in the finishing touch-up and balancing phases right now.

Heck, even if people wanna bring up Steve: He came out barely three months after Min Min, which wasn't a huge gap of time at all. I doubt potential complexities of the character are gonna be a factor here, and that's assuming the character will even have complexities.

If they string it along, it'll only be because TGA paid them out the wazoo to wait, 'cause otherwise, there is literally no benefit to them waiting: Nintendo knows dead well everyone and their brother will stop what they're doing and watch the September Direct just to see how Ultimate ends, and I just don't see them giving up their #1 Direct bait just to make Geoff happy when they've skipped TGA before.