Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Inferno7]

What’s the stance on a M rated character being the final spot. Do we think M rated characters are unlikely, do you think they’re deconfirmed due to the ESRB system etc. What’s everyone’s opinions on an M rated character taking the final spot.

I think it's unlikely, granted that we didn't have a lot (if any) M rated newcomers during Ultimate's cycle, which makes me think it could play a role in the fighter selection.
Personally speaking, I think the only ones with a real chance at this point are a Resident Evil rep and Doomguy (not sure about the last one though).

 

[Deleted member]

So I was pretty much thinking a bunch about who the last DLC character could be, and the main topic that always comes around is the idea that the last DLC character will come from a recently released game that came after Three Houses. Corrin and Bayonetta were the last 2 characters added to Smash that had a fairly recent entry to their respective series (though Corrin's was far more recent than Bayo's), and Byleth was the last DLC character in Vol 1 as Three Houses was also 1 of the most recent games to come out around that timeframe. However, the only real contender that always pop up in my head is a Pokemon from Sword and Shield while holding hope for a miracle in Zagreus from Hades being that new character for CP11.

After seeing a decent amount of posts on the subject, I'm starting to believe Nahobino from SMT V is a likely candidate for that scenario. SMT V is a game that's been in development since January 2017 and is currently set to release this year, and even if you believe it's "too late" for that happening, keep in mind 2020 was a very hectic period for game developers as everything around the pandemic caused setbacks and delays. Given it's set to release in late Fall of this year, the game was already more than half finished by the time proposals for fighters in Vol 2 were going around. Nintendo probably kept a keen eye on the project and figured the game would be finished before Vol 2 was finished, so Nahobino being CP11 is actually pretty possible.

Personally I'm not so interested in SMT V or the game getting a Challenger Pack, but I can definitely see it getting the last spot in Vol 2 for being a fresh new game. It might not be likelier than Sword and Shield, but it's already above most of the fairly recent games like DOOM Eternal and Hades for that matter.

 

[Gengar84]

Since we're talking about bosses, which boss could come alongside your most wanted?

With my most wanted being Reimu, I have some choices. Some obvious ones would be Remilia, Flandre, Yukari, or dare I say her name, Mima. While Remilia and Flandre are certainly up there for iconic Touhou bosses, having the Touhou boss being a vampire while we already have Dracula would be a bit redundant even if their boss fights wouldn't be alike, wouldn't it?

So it would leave to have Yukari as a Touhou boss as the most obvious choice, and she could be a very fun boss to fight, with her using her power over boundaries, notably her gaps to screw with the screen, teleport, rthrow trains at you, this kind of things a reality warping boss would do. She would be really tricky and fun, so navigating around what she does would be a fun challenge.

Mima is one of the few Touhou characters that would work as a boss who's the personnal nemesis of Reimu, even though she's not relevant to Touhou anymore, and since a very long time. But she could still be a good boss, especialy if she looks like she does in Touhou 2 with giant bat wings. Her attacks wouldn't be like Yukari's and more basic, but still pretty spectacular, since her magic considers of throwing star-shaped projectiles a lot, while she could also swing her scepter for an attack that gets you away from her, so the challenge would be to not only get in, but also stay in.

A more unorthodox Touhou boss for Smash would be Utsuho, or simply Okuu. Basically, she has the power of the sun god and can throw mini-suns at you. And they're not just star-shaped, they're actual suns. So she would do massive damages with every attacks, and they would all be very big, so managing to dodge said attacks and attacking her when she's cooling down or chaging up could make for a very fun boss fight, especialy if we get a remix of her theme that goes very hard, like this metal cover for example

Well Valkog is the main antagonist of Rogue Galaxy but I’m not picking the main protagonist so I’m not obligated to pick the main villain. I’ve always personally loved Gale, who is the main antagonist for just one planet. Even though he was a relatively minor character in the grand scheme of things, he would be who I want most for a boss. It definitely helps that he’s voiced by Crispin Freeman so I’d get two of my favorite voice actors with Steve Blum as Zegram for the playable character.

And yes, I’m aware that no one has any clue what I’m talking about lol.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

I think it's unlikely, granted that we didn't have a lot (if any) M rated newcomers during Ultimate's cycle, which makes me think it could play a role in the fighter selection.

Incorrect
Persona 5 is M rated, that is why Pass 1 is censored in American Smash presentations showing off E-T rated content.

The M rated mii fighters being censored and both passes being censored when they are shown off means that both passes have a M rated character in them, and in America no one in pass 2 comes from a M rated game so far.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

What’s the stance on a M rated character being the final spot. Do we think M rated characters are unlikely, do you think they’re deconfirmed due to the ESRB system etc. What’s everyone’s opinions on an M rated character taking the final spot.

It's pretty damn easy to turn down most reasons why it's M-rated. The biggest thing CERO usually has is things like upskirts and too much sexual content. ...Which, well, is pretty easy to tone down. The only time we don't see a toning down is Mai, and that's due to her being a cameo, which means it's not really worth the effort at that point. Since you need to license appropriate outfits, which takes time hashing out the details with SNK. And it's not even her most iconic outfit either, soooooo... it wasn't hard to see why it was avoided.

Which is why I'm not worried. Pyra and Mythra's designs got toned down, same with Bayonetta. If someone M-Rated isn't getting it, it'd be more that something that feels iconic to them not being in Smash(because CERO won't allow it) would be a plausible reason. Not that I think it'd prevent, say, Scorpion or Doomguy from getting in, but the "ultra violence" stuff is notable to the games. Would that deter Sakurai from choosing them? Possibly. But it also can be fixed up while keeping them having impactful moves that still feel very violent, ala Ridley. So the concept of them working is very much plausible, but whether we imagine it or not doesn't really say much for what'll actually happen.

I don't think being M-Rated would make someone unlikely in itself, but I can see very specific contexts that could potentially hurt a character. I feel someone like Scorpion is more 50/50 due to various factors(MK not being regularly sellable in Japan anymore is something to consider), but Master Chief and Doomguy I don't think have anything problematic holding them back at this point. Halo not being multi-platform in itself I wouldn't say is a problem either, but I do think it has a slight chance of affecting things. If only cause the Xbox isn't doing that well in Japan nor is Halo. That in itself moreso than just multiplatform(which to also note, Master Chief is in versions of Fortnite outside of the Xbox or PC. Microsoft doesn't entirely care, but it's still closer to a cameo than a full-out character with things like music, songs, and actual moves based upon the series. One's a fun addition. The other is a walking advertisement in itself). Doomguy doesn't have these particular issues, though, he's just known for being more violent, and not even the Demons are often that bad anyway(maybe the later Doom games, but you have their old sprites that work fine too for Spirits, so).

 

[Merengue]

I wish Earthbound got a new game like SMT . . .

 

[GilTheGreat19]

We got Bayonetta in 4. So I don’t think ending on another M character is out of the question.

Good, so Doomguy it is

 

[Inferno7]

Incorrect
Persona 5 is M rated, that is why Pass 1 is censored in American Smash presentations showing off E-T rated content.

The M rated mii fighters being censored and both passes being censored when they are shown off means that both passes have a M rated character in them, and in America no one in pass 2 comes from a M rated game so far.

Which is why I put the ''if any'' inside a parenthesis

No need to correct me for every little mistake I make

 

[StrangeKitten]

What’s the stance on a M rated character being the final spot. Do we think M rated characters are unlikely, do you think they’re deconfirmed due to the ESRB system etc. What’s everyone’s opinions on an M rated character taking the final spot.

It's 50/50. I could see us getting an M rated character, and I could easily see us not getting one. Considering there hasn't been that much M-rated content in the passes, I get the feeling they're more likely to opt for non-M characters, but it could still go either way. We'll probably never really know if they passed on a M character because they were rated M and went with someone easier in terms of CERO, because there are many non-M characters who would be great picks as well.

 

[Theguy123]

Incorrect
Persona 5 is M rated, that is why Pass 1 is censored in American Smash presentations showing off E-T rated content.

The M rated mii fighters being censored and both passes being censored when they are shown off means that both passes have a M rated character in them, and in America no one in pass 2 comes from a M rated game so far.

So in basic language are you implying the last character is s an M rated character or are you just counting the mii fighters that come from M rated games. I’m tired so sorry if this is simple and I’m not understanding lol.

 

[SNEKeater]

Damn.... I can't think of an argument for my character. No SMT content with joker especially with nocturne having no spirit event is more sus than Porky's absence.

I don't think Nocturne not having a spirit event is suspicious.

It would be sus if the game was a Switch exclusive or something, but that's not the case.

SMTV is the one that would be suspicious if it doesn't get a few spirits or a costume, not Nocturne. But obviously we're at a point where that doesn't really matter. With only 1 fighter left, it's either "you're in or not"

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

If we do get a character who destroys Galeem and Dharkon, I hope its Doomguy. Really helps out Smashs image as a good Christian game

 

[Arctiq]

So I was pretty much thinking a bunch about who the last DLC character could be, and the main topic that always comes around is the idea that the last DLC character will come from a recently released game that came after Three Houses. Corrin and Bayonetta were the last 2 characters added to Smash that had a fairly recent entry to their respective series (though Corrin's was far more recent than Bayo's), and Byleth was the last DLC character in Vol 1 as Three Houses was also 1 of the most recent games to come out around that timeframe. However, the only real contender that always pop up in my head is a Pokemon from Sword and Shield while holding hope for a miracle in Zagreus from Hades being that new character for CP11.

After seeing a decent amount of posts on the subject, I'm starting to believe Nahobino from SMT V is a likely candidate for that scenario. SMT V is a game that's been in development since January 2017 and is currently set to release this year, and even if you believe it's "too late" for that happening, keep in mind 2020 was a very hectic period for game developers as everything around the pandemic caused setbacks and delays. Given it's set to release in late Fall of this year, the game was already more than half finished by the time proposals for fighters in Vol 2 were going around. Nintendo probably kept a keen eye on the project and figured the game would be finished before Vol 2 was finished, so Nahobino being CP11 is actually pretty possible.

Personally I'm not so interested in SMT V or the game getting a Challenger Pack, but I can definitely see it getting the last spot in Vol 2 for being a fresh new game. It might not be likelier than Sword and Shield, but it's already above most of the fairly recent games like DOOM Eternal and Hades for that matter.

I've never played an SMT game, but I personally would be fine with the dude, especially if he came with Jack Frost and other iconic demons. I didn't like how Joker was implemented in Smash, considering SMT is mainly about the demons, limiting him to just Arsene was kinda meh. So I hope having an OG SMT rep gives us more to play with. Also his design would be so cool in Smash with the way his hair flows.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

If we do get a character who destroys Galeem and Dharkon, I hope its Doomguy. Really helps out Smashs image as a good Christian game

A Belmont in the making...

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

So I was pretty much thinking a bunch about who the last DLC character could be, and the main topic that always comes around is the idea that the last DLC character will come from a recently released game that came after Three Houses. Corrin and Bayonetta were the last 2 characters added to Smash that had a fairly recent entry to their respective series (though Corrin's was far more recent than Bayo's), and Byleth was the last DLC character in Vol 1 as Three Houses was also 1 of the most recent games to come out around that timeframe. However, the only real contender that always pop up in my head is a Pokemon from Sword and Shield while holding hope for a miracle in Zagreus from Hades being that new character for CP11.

After seeing a decent amount of posts on the subject, I'm starting to believe Nahobino from SMT V is a likely candidate for that scenario. SMT V is a game that's been in development since January 2017 and is currently set to release this year, and even if you believe it's "too late" for that happening, keep in mind 2020 was a very hectic period for game developers as everything around the pandemic caused setbacks and delays. Given it's set to release in late Fall of this year, the game was already more than half finished by the time proposals for fighters in Vol 2 were going around. Nintendo probably kept a keen eye on the project and figured the game would be finished before Vol 2 was finished, so Nahobino being CP11 is actually pretty possible.

Personally I'm not so interested in SMT V or the game getting a Challenger Pack, but I can definitely see it getting the last spot in Vol 2 for being a fresh new game. It might not be likelier than Sword and Shield, but it's already above most of the fairly recent games like DOOM Eternal and Hades for that matter.

Sword and Shield were deconfirmed by the spirit event. Doom Eternal is too graphic and probably even too new to get into the 2nd pass and Hades was definitely too new.
The only reason why Min Min and Pyra are exceptions to the spirit rule is because those spirits were decided after Sakurai couldn’t get them into the base roster but before there was going to be a pass 2.
Spirits DO deconfirm.

Which is why I put the ''if any'' inside a parenthesis

No need to correct me for every little mistake I make

It’s a big mistake though because Joker is the reason M theory was started.

 

[Inferno7]

It’s a big mistake though because Joker is the reason M theory was started.

So?
It was a pretty open response yet you still bother?

 

[Merengue]

Sword and Shield were deconfirmed by the spirit event. Doom Eternal is too graphic and probably even too new to get into the 2nd pass and Hades was definitely too new.
The only reason why Min Min and Pyra are exceptions to the spirit rule is because those spirits were decided after Sakurai couldn’t get them into the base roster but before there was going to be a pass 2.
Spirits DO deconfirm.

It’s a big mistake though because Joker is the reason M theory was started.

What if there was an SMT V Spirit Event?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Since thinking up things is fun, I'm gonna think of a boss to come with all of my Fighter Pack concepts:

Spoiler

• Freddy-Either Springtrap, or Ennard.
  • This one's a weird one since the only true fight in the entire series is currently with RWQFSFASXC (yeah his name is just mashing on the keyboard. I dunno either), but I don't think that would be very fitting.
  • In terms of the normal gameplay, Ennard is the only real boss animatronic, and Spring Trap is kind of one, but he is his entire game so I don't think he counts.
  • Either way, I think you could still have a fitting boss encounter if you turned it into a pseudo stealth mission; your mission is to either avoid them while you escape, or avoid altercations as you lure them to an electrocution device, shock them to disable them, and then beat the tar out of them (which is probably better for a boss battle).
  • For Ennard, I would make him very aggressive, and you'd have to run in the opposite direction (or hide) whenever you hear squeaking metal in front of you.
  • For Springtrap, I would make him less aggressive, and without a tell (or have it be when he shows up rather than before), but have the Phantom Animatronics spread throughout the map as traps that stun or disorient the character, and alert Springtrap to your location.
• Rex & Pyra/Mythra-Still Malos.
  • If they have his fight be without his Blade, then I'd imagine his deal would be 1, hugely powerful attacks, and 2, Monado Arts. Yes, his weapon is a Monado. His Monado Arts would all be attacks in contrast to Shulk. Some of them could be really nasty like Monado Jail, which since targeting Blades wouldn't be that useful here, would probably immobilize the player itself.
• Amaterasu-Yami
  • A 5 phase boss battle. Before it starts, Yami steals all of your Special Moves. The Phases are as follows:
    • Phase 1 is just a ball. It tries to destroy the battlefield, and hit you with saw blades and hammers. You regain your Up Special during this phase.
    • Phase 2 is the ball, but on fire. It just tackles you while it burns. You get your Neutral Special back during this phase.
    • Phase 3 is a slot machine. It will do it's slot machine thing, and hitting it makes the slots stop prematurely. The slots you get determine what attack it makes. If any of the slots pick monster, you can stop the summons by hitting the orbs back to it. You get your down special back during this phase.
    • Phase 4 gives the ball little robot legs and elastic arms. It jumps around and slaps you, as well as firing missiles, dropping bombs on you, and using big electric attack. It has a weakness that is exposed when it opens the cockpit. You get your Side Special back during this phase.
    • Phase 5 is the hand. It fires missiles, creates tornadoes, tries to tackle you, punch you, throw electric balls at you, bring down its fist, fire a beam...etc. The hand can destroy terrain with certain attacks.
  • Since this battle is so long, I Yami won't appear in any sort of boss rush unless they do a true arena type deal.
  • Despite my earlier comment, I think Yami would be way better here than in Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom due to the freedom of movement.
• Chell-GLaDOS
  • Just like in Portal, you wouldn't fight GLaDOS herself. Instead you'd do a series of puzzles to try and throw her Personality Cores into the fire whachamacallit. Also you constantly take damage throughout the "fight" after you dunk the first Core (the fight doesn't really start until you do).
• Bandana Waddle Dee-Umm....King Dedede?
  • Really any Kirby boss would make a great Super Smash Bros. boss, but very few of them tie to Bandana Waddle Dee specifically. I'll just go with an amalgamation of the King Dedede fights over the years.
• Toon-VP
  • A sumo match between you and a giant tank robot. You beat it by grabbing pies and throwing them at the base of the Cog in order to stun it, then punch it in the face to push it back. The VP will retaliate by throwing gears at you, summoning Cogs to defend it, and jumping to launch you up.
• Mega Man X-Sigma
  • This would either be the first Sigma fight (probably minus the dog, but you never know), or an amalgamation of them.
• Zero-Iris
  • Colonel is also an option, but I'll go with Iris for variety. What does Iris do? Uh...vomits projectiles all over the screen...Maybe I should have gone with Colonel.
• Rytlock-Balthazar
  • A fight to the death between you and the god of war. Zhaitan is a boss you fight in the base game, but it really sucks for our purposes here (too big to really fit on screen and his boss fight is just shooting cannons at him), so I'm going with Balthazar.
  • Balthazar is a giant man with a giant sword that he hits you with, and sets fire to everything...Fun!

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I honestly think this is just an excuse Sakurai gave for personally wanting Joker when Nintendo had different reasons and they are the ones deciding the fighters. The menu thing likely came from Sakurai’s personal experience with Persona 5 and he thought that would be a good idea for Smash even before Joker was decided.

Terry was likely a gift to Sakurai for doing such great work and a very very very big exception considering Fatal Fury basically is responsible for creating Smash.

The fact remains that Joker isn’t even name dropped in his own gameplay trailer title, it’s literally just titled “New Content Approaching”(they could have easily updated that title by now to be more in line with the Sakurai Presents videos if Nintendo actually cared about Joker), like Joker wasn’t even supposed to be there originally. Sakurai doesn’t even say anything about Joker not getting a Sakurai Presents during the Hero presentation, again like Joker was not supposed to be here.

My theory is that Joker was added very last minute and was not supposed to be in the original fighter’s pass(the only one originally). No other character in either pass took 2 months just to have a character model, they all had a character model and a demo of their move set in their reveal trailer and yet Joker steals someone else’s invitation in anime form and does nothing else in his “trailer”, that just screams last minute addition to me, especially when they tacked that “trailer” on to his gameplay video too. Joker’s actual release into Smash was literally just shadow dropped in April with no fanfare from Nintendo also.

Why would Joker be added last minute you may ask? The answer is to stall for delayed Switch game releases that they want fighters from of course. Three Houses for instance was delayed multiple times after it was already decided that Byleth would be in pass 1, so Byleth was not going to be the last fighter originally(a 2020 character reveal would be way too late for a game was supposed to come out in 2018). But if it wasn’t Byleth that was supposed to be the last fighter then who was it? Every character in the 1st fighter’s pass either was supposed to have their game come out in 2018(including Dragon Quest XI S)or they are legacy picks that could come at any time. What other big Switch game was around when Nintendo decided the 1st fighter’s pass and was also heavily delayed that could have been the original final fighter for pass 1? Answer: ONLY SMT V.

While many people now suspect that Nahobino is the final fighter, I think I am the only one who actually has an extensive case for why he has to be the final fighter based on using every single method I could think of for disqualifying him or putting his inclusion in doubt in my own mind. Everything from the missing Nocturne HD spirits(keep in mind Nocturne HD was the feature attraction along with SMT V in a Nintendo mini partner showcase direct and the game came out almost a year ago in Japan, it was guaranteed spirits in Smash and it would definitely have them by now), the tons of weird stuff surrounding Joker’s inclusion, the now proven “M” theory, the fact that challenger pack 11 was originally separate from pass 2 and could have been in pass 1 instead, the fact that Sakurai said the final character would take “a while” and will be done “before the year is over” when SMT V is coming out “before the year is over” and is the only game Nintendo would gain something from marketing in Smash, the fact that Nintendo and Atlus put SMT V up against Pokémon as a holiday title on the same system expecting it do well etc etc.

I could go on and on and on destroying any possible argument against Nahobino being the final character because either I or someone else have already come up with such arguments, and in the end they were all reversed as an argument in favor of Nahobino.

Honestly I think that the reason Joker took so much time and his trailer wasn't ready is because:

1) Sakurai and the team was putting 100% priority on the base game, and they only start development on DLC when the game was finished (probably mid november or maybe even later). They also had to finish Plant as soon as possible for preorder bonus.

2) I remember reading from Geoff Keighley that the Joker trailer was a late addition to the Game awards show. My guess is that Nintendo didn't plan to announced Joker that early, but they make a deal with Geoff so they just threw a last minute trailer there.

Also, I don't think it's that unlikely that Nintendo wanted Joker. Atlus was always one of the biggest Nintendo console supporter, especially with the 3ds having multiple Shin megami tensei, Etrian odyssey and Persona Q games. They probably figure that an Atlus character was a good choice, and Joker was brand new and from Atlus' most popular game so Nintendo could have decided him and it was a coincidence that Sakurai liked his game too.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

So in basic language are you implying the last character is s an M rated character or are you just counting the mii fighters that come from M rated games. I’m tired so sorry if this is simple and I’m not understanding lol.

I am saying the final character has to come from a M rated game. The mii fighters aren’t part of the passes. The advertising for the passes are censored because they contain M rated characters in T rated presentations.

I don't think Nocturne not having a spirit event is suspicious.

It would be sus if the game was a Switch exclusive or something, but that's not the case.

They literally gave Resident Evil spirits(which deconfirms Resident Evil btw) because Resident Evil 5 and 6 were advertised in Nintendo’s E3 presentation.

Nocturne HD would DEFINITELY get spirits from headlining that showcase considering “Sakura: Of Rice and Ruin” got some.

Nocturne was the equivalent of Final Fantasy 7 for SMT in terms of Nintendo losing the next entry of a reliable 3rd party series to Sony, it coming to Switch is a very big deal.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I am saying the final character has to come from a M rated game. The mii fighters aren’t part of the passes. The advertising for the passes are censored because they contain M rated characters in T rated presentations.

Couldn’t that just be to have consistency with FP1?

 

[Theguy123]

Couldn’t that just be to have consistency with FP1?

Exactly what I was thinking

 

[SNEKeater]

They literally gave Resident Evil spirits(which deconfirms Resident Evil btw) because Resident Evil 5 and 6 were advertised in Nintendo’s E3 presentation.

Nocturne HD would DEFINITELY get spirits from headlining that showcase considering “Sakura: Of Rice and Ruin” got some.

Nocturne was the equivalent of Final Fantasy 7 for SMT in terms of Nintendo losing the next entry of a reliable 3rd party series to Sony, it coming to Switch is a very big deal.

Then where are our The Witcher 3/Overwatch/No More Heroes 3/Doom spirits? To name a few examples. These games were also advertised at E3 or different Directs with a decent spotlight. I don't see the correlation between Resident Evil and SMT in this case, and if there was any correlation, it is definitely not exclusive to both RE and SMT.

I agree with your FFVII-Nocturne example, though obviously in a much smaller scale in SMT case. But while Nocturne HD could definitely get a spirit event, I don't think anyone would be surprised if it ended getting nothing in that regard.

NEO: TWEWY, No More Heroes 3 or SMTV are much safer bets for spirit content if you ask me.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

I honestly think this is just an excuse Sakurai gave for personally wanting Joker when Nintendo had different reasons and they are the ones deciding the fighters. The menu thing likely came from Sakurai’s personal experience with Persona 5 and he thought that would be a good idea for Smash even before Joker was decided.

Terry was likely a gift to Sakurai for doing such great work and a very very very big exception considering Fatal Fury basically is responsible for creating Smash.

The fact remains that Joker isn’t even name dropped in his own gameplay trailer title, it’s literally just titled “New Content Approaching”(they could have easily updated that title by now to be more in line with the Sakurai Presents videos if Nintendo actually cared about Joker), like Joker wasn’t even supposed to be there originally. Sakurai doesn’t even say anything about Joker not getting a Sakurai Presents during the Hero presentation, again like Joker was not supposed to be here.

My theory is that Joker was added very last minute and was not supposed to be in the original fighter’s pass(the only one originally). No other character in either pass took 2 months just to have a character model, they all had a character model and a demo of their move set in their reveal trailer and yet Joker steals someone else’s invitation in anime form and does nothing else in his “trailer”, that just screams last minute addition to me, especially when they tacked that “trailer” on to his gameplay video too. Joker’s actual release into Smash was literally just shadow dropped in April with no fanfare from Nintendo also.

Why would Joker be added last minute you may ask? The answer is to stall for delayed Switch game releases that they want fighters from of course. Three Houses for instance was delayed multiple times after it was already decided that Byleth would be in pass 1, so Byleth was not going to be the last fighter originally(a 2020 character reveal would be way too late for a game was supposed to come out in 2018). But if it wasn’t Byleth that was supposed to be the last fighter then who was it? Every character in the 1st fighter’s pass either was supposed to have their game come out in 2018(including Dragon Quest XI S)or they are legacy picks that could come at any time. What other big Switch game was around when Nintendo decided the 1st fighter’s pass and was also heavily delayed that could have been the original final fighter for pass 1? Answer: ONLY SMT V.

While many people now suspect that Nahobino is the final fighter, I think I am the only one who actually has an extensive case for why he has to be the final fighter based on using every single method I could think of for disqualifying him or putting his inclusion in doubt in my own mind. Everything from the missing Nocturne HD spirits(keep in mind Nocturne HD was the feature attraction along with SMT V in a Nintendo mini partner showcase direct and the game came out almost a year ago in Japan, it was guaranteed spirits in Smash and it would definitely have them by now), the tons of weird stuff surrounding Joker’s inclusion, the now proven “M” theory, the fact that challenger pack 11 was originally separate from pass 2 and could have been in pass 1 instead, the fact that Sakurai said the final character would take “a while” and will be done “before the year is over” when SMT V is coming out “before the year is over” and is the only game Nintendo would gain something from marketing in Smash, the fact that Nintendo and Atlus put SMT V up against Pokémon as a holiday title on the same system expecting it do well etc etc.

I could go on and on and on destroying any possible argument against Nahobino being the final character because either I or someone else have already come up with such arguments, and in the end they were all reversed as an argument in favor of Nahobino.

I really want Nahobino as the final character, and think they have a definite chance, but... What?

This'll probably be out of order, and I won't respond to everything, but:

Sakurai can't lie about who chose characters. Nintendo picked the dlc, and that's a fact. Sakurai might still have influence, but it's likely Nintendo just saw a popular JRPG that even had people who didn't typically like RPGs praising it, and decided to use it in Smash as a marketing move. They're really close with ATLUS, so it can't have been hard. (I'm still confused why we didn't get that much music though).

Joker didn't get a Sakurai Presents because they only exist out of necessity. They used up so much of their budget on Joker's presentation that they had to come up with something else for the other characters that wouldn't cost as much.

The M theory stuff could be because of Sephiroth. His presentation was age restricted on youtube, so that could have been because they couldn't name FF7 due to its age rating (the remake seems more likely to be the reason for this though).

Joker took so long to come out because he was the first dlc character, so their team had probably changed, and the way they developed the game had to adapt to suit making dlc. Joker was literally revealed as the game released, and Sakurai said that they would only start developing the dlc after the game released, so they had to develop all of the pack's content before they released him, which takes time. It's not like there's a massive conspiracy about Joker in Smash.

Finally, you just sound really arrogant. There's no way you can "destroy" any possible argument, because nobody can do that. There are always things going against a character, no matter how likely they seem. And as for being the "only person with an extensive case for why he has to be the final fighter"... Other people have come up with all of the evidence you've given, or at least the stuff that actually makes sense. And he doesn't have to be the final fighter. I love SMT, but I know that there are loads of characters who would make far more sense than Nahobino.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Joker didn't get a Sakurai Presents because they only exist out of necessity. They used up so much of their budget on Joker's presentation that they had to come up with something else for the other characters that wouldn't cost as much.

Is this confirmed? I assumed Joker got his own trailer instead of a Presents because the team still wasn’t sure about how to market characters effectively and eventually landed on Sakurai making a small showcase as the best option after he was released.

 

[Perkilator]

Joker didn't get a Sakurai Presents because they only exist out of necessity. They used up so much of their budget on Joker's presentation that they had to come up with something else for the other characters that wouldn't cost as much.

You know, I actually wish Joker did get a Sakurai Presents.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Is this confirmed? I assumed Joker got his own trailer instead of a Presents because the team still wasn’t sure about how to market characters and eventually landed on Sakurai making a small showcase as the best option after he was released.

I'm like 99% sure. It's 2am, so I'm tired and could be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure that's the explanation they gave when they announced the first one.

I just looked it up, and I was right (thankfully). This article explains it pretty well.

You know, I actually wish Joker did get a Sakurai Presents.

Me too. It would be great to see him talk about a series he loves like he did with all the SNK stuff in Terry's. Although Joker's trailer was pretty cool anyway, so I don't mind.

 

[PSIGuy]

I wish Earthbound got a new game like SMT . . .

I'd settle for them rereleasing EarthBound and EarthBound: Beginnings on Switch Online, honestly. Not sure why I have to keep my Wii U plugged in to play them legitimately.

You know, I actually wish Joker did get a Sakurai Presents.

If you want Sakurai gushing about Joker and Persona there's always the 10 minute video of him visiting Atlus.
You already know what he's like in Smash and his easter eggs by playing him.

 

[Sucumbio]

Since we're talking about bosses, which boss could come alongside your most wanted?

 

[Perkilator]

If you want Sakurai gushing about Joker and Persona there's always the 10 minute video of him visiting Atlus.
You already know what he's like in Smash and his easter eggs by playing him.

I meant before Joker's release. I wanna see Sakurai gush even more.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I'm like 99% sure. It's 2am, so I'm tired and could be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure that's the explanation they gave when they announced the first one.

I just looked it up, and I was right (thankfully). This article explains it pretty well.

Cool, learn something new. I’m glad they made that choice, saves their budget and we get to see Sakurai nerd out.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Cool, learn something new. I’m glad they made that choice, saves their budget and we get to see Sakurai nerd out.

Yeah, I knew they made the right choice during his fight against the cpu in hero's presentation, since you could see his personality, and it added a sense of transparency and personality to the game and its marketing.

It was definitely worth it for Terry's presentation as well, since you could tell how much he loved SNK games, and the fact he could use content from his favourite games in his own game.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I'd settle for them rereleasing EarthBound and EarthBound: Beginnings on Switch Online, honestly. Not sure why I have to keep my Wii U plugged in to play them legitimately.

Because manufactured scarcity and anti consumer "Disney Vault" practices, yay!

 

[GoodGrief741]

They literally gave Resident Evil spirits(which deconfirms Resident Evil btw) because Resident Evil 5 and 6 were advertised in Nintendo’s E3 presentation.

See kids, this is what happens when you never learn the difference between correlation and causation.

 

[CannonStreak]

Because manufactured scarcity and anti consumer "Disney Vault" practices, yay!

It's effectively the Nintendo Vault now, in this case.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

You know, I actually wish Joker did get a Sakurai Presents.

Give Sakurai a direct excuse to talk about the PlayStation

 

[CannonStreak]

See kids, this is what happens when you never learn the difference between correlation and causation.

It's a shame. Not even that many adults know the difference, as it would seem.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

No image only post >

Jkjkjkjk!

 

[ARandomZoomer]

Since we're talking about bosses, which boss could come alongside your most wanted?

With my most wanted being Reimu, I have some choices. Some obvious ones would be Remilia, Flandre, Yukari, or dare I say her name, Mima. While Remilia and Flandre are certainly up there for iconic Touhou bosses, having the Touhou boss being a vampire while we already have Dracula would be a bit redundant even if their boss fights wouldn't be alike, wouldn't it?

So it would leave to have Yukari as a Touhou boss as the most obvious choice, and she could be a very fun boss to fight, with her using her power over boundaries, notably her gaps to screw with the screen, teleport, rthrow trains at you, this kind of things a reality warping boss would do. She would be really tricky and fun, so navigating around what she does would be a fun challenge.

Mima is one of the few Touhou characters that would work as a boss who's the personnal nemesis of Reimu, even though she's not relevant to Touhou anymore, and since a very long time. But she could still be a good boss, especialy if she looks like she does in Touhou 2 with giant bat wings. Her attacks wouldn't be like Yukari's and more basic, but still pretty spectacular, since her magic considers of throwing star-shaped projectiles a lot, while she could also swing her scepter for an attack that gets you away from her, so the challenge would be to not only get in, but also stay in.

A more unorthodox Touhou boss for Smash would be Utsuho, or simply Okuu. Basically, she has the power of the sun god and can throw mini-suns at you. And they're not just star-shaped, they're actual suns. So she would do massive damages with every attacks, and they would all be very big, so managing to dodge said attacks and attacking her when she's cooling down or chaging up could make for a very fun boss fight, especialy if we get a remix of her theme that goes very hard, like this metal cover for example

Oh gosh if Lavos from Chrono Trigger was a boss in Smash that would be amazing!

 

[Gengar84]

Oh gosh if Lavos from Chrono Trigger was a boss in Smash that would be amazing!

I almost said Lavos because Magus is in my top three most wanted characters.