Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SharkLord]

Also, sidebar, how was Breath of the Wild such a major change to the franchise? Pretty much every Zelda ever has included an open world sandbox to explore. Granted, BotW has a more seamless world structure, but it's still basically just a big enclosed sandbox. The only things it did differently is add breakable weapons, sub-par dungeons (if that's what you want to call them) and scrap the whole kill-bosses-for-special-items-to-progress mechanic. If that's revolutionary, I don't see it as a step up. Good game, but heavily overrated. Also, Age of Calamity is fun and all, but it's pretty much identical to the original hyrule warriors but with a reskinned aesthetic and map system with a different set of characters. So edgy. The story is OK, but like any prequel, it can't really change the source material in any meaningful way. Not sure it counts as Nintendo getting out of their comfort zone.

I think it's mainly the structure of the progression. Past Zelda games were largely "Do this dungeon, nice, now do this dungeon...", whereas Breath of the Wild threw that progression to the wind (haha) and just let you run around and do whatever. It's also a lot bigger, so there's a lot of room to frick around in. Heck, you can just skip all the Divine Beasts and go straight to Ganon.

Granted I have been severely neglecting the Zelda franchise so I could be wrong

 

[3BitSaurus]

Ahri is the mascot of one of the most popular games in the world and has been for more than a decade at this point.

One of. I feel obligated to say this, even as a supporter. I do think she would have a decent shot, but I feel like it's fair to say that choosing a LoL rep is not so cut and dry.

also Nintendo has definitely stepped outside its comfort zone recently. breathe of the wild is a major change on zelda, age of calamity/ hyrule warrios, mario rabbids (they let another company give mario a gun), splatoon is a third-person shooter, and more. like idk what some people want from nintendo the full brand is never gonna change but they are steppiong outside thier comfort zone. when metroid prime 4 has online multiplayer versus people will be shocked as well.

I also feel like adressing this point - did you notice that out of all your examples, two were from Zelda (one of which already had tested the waters with a previous Warriors game), one was made by another company entirely (even with support from Nintendo) and Splatoon is more of an outlier than the rule?

Nintendo has this MO where they will step out of their comfort zone for some things, but then will stagnate in others (see the whole thing about "no new ideas" for a new F-Zero or the current state of Star Fox) and will sometimes flat out refuse to budge for seemingly no good reason (the limitations placed on the Mario spinoffs).

Granted, none of this is new - Nintendo was pretty much always like this. But I do think this trait is being perceived as stronger now because of outliers like BotW and Splatoon.

 

[Firox]

I think it's mainly the structure of the progression. Past Zelda games were largely "Do this dungeon, nice, now do this dungeon...", whereas Breath of the Wild threw that progression to the wind (haha) and just let you run around and do whatever. It's also a lot bigger, so there's a lot of room to frick around in. Heck, you can just skip all the Divine Beasts and go straight to Ganon.

Granted I have been severely neglecting the Zelda franchise so I could be wrong

This sounds like a pretty accurate description. I suppose I still think that the bigger world and non-linear progression wasn't worth the sacrifice of epic dungeons, boss fights and cool item mechanics, not to mention awesome weapons to collect that won't break on me. If they could have at least included a smithing mechanic to forge or repair weapons, it that would have been nice. To each their own, I guess. Animal Crossing and Minecraft are living proof that most people prefer freedom and self-pacing over all else.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I was going to respond with a joke but I actually don't know which Wily 1 you're talking about since almost all of them are called the same thing.

Only one of them is famous though!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Pretty much every Zelda ever has included an open world sandbox to explore. Granted, BotW has a more seamless world structure, but it's still basically just a big enclosed sandbox.

Previous Zelda games: Open World yes, sandbox, no. Open world games may feature exploration of large areas, but the mechanics behind them are quite rigid. Sandbox games let you do whatever the heck you want however the heck you want with extremely open ended tools and mechanics. I guess this has been explained already but uh...Here's a more direct explanation I guess.

I suppose I still think that the bigger world and non-linear progression wasn't worth the sacrifice of epic dungeons, boss fights and cool item mechanics, not to mention awesome weapons to collect that won't break on me.

Honestly I don't think those are mutually exclusive. The Divine Beasts are decent enough dungeons, it's just that their main mechanic relies on spacial recognition, and if you're bad at that (I probably am), you're gonna have a bad time. Hyrule Castle though? Loved that dungeon, though I can understand the criticism of it being a weird departure from other dungeons in the series since it doesn't really have any puzzles. It's more of trying to figure out how to deal with dangerous enemies in dangerous spots.

I guess where I'm going with this is that you can have the sandbox design format, and the traditional puzzle based dungeons. Just merge the shrines with the dungeons and you've got it. As for the weapon durability system, I get the idea, but I think it should be tweaked so that switching weapons is positively incentivized rather than negatively enforced, like how World of Warcraft swapped out it's fatigue mechanic (or something of that sort) for a rest bonus. It would also allow you to use the Champions's weapons without the guilt of breaking them, and make the Master Sword not just an "oh crap" button.

 

[Firox]

Honestly I don't think those are mutually exclusive. The Divine Beasts are decent enough dungeons, it's just that their main mechanic relies on spacial recognition, and if you're bad at that (I probably am), you're gonna have a bad time. Hyrule Castle though? Loved that dungeon, though I can understand the criticism of it being a weird departure from other dungeons in the series since it doesn't really have any puzzles. It's more of trying to figure out how to deal with dangerous enemies in dangerous spots.

As a long-time connoisseur of Zelda games, I compared the Divine Beasts to previous games/dungeons. Each Divine beast was almost completely devoid of enemies, bar the occasional black goo with the eye you have to hit, 3 out of 4 bosses were copy-pasted (though the lighting boss was awesome) and the puzzles were pretty meh. Also note there were only 4 beasts to begin with. Compare that with Ocarina's 8+ dungeons or Twilight Princess' 8+ dungeions or even Majora's mask where the 4 dungeons it did have were way bigger and more fleshed out with puzzles and combat. The Divine beasts just felt hollow to me, as did most of the BotW world. Granted, the shrines tried to compensate for the puzzles and Hyrule Castle/Ganon were cool but overall I felt that the game actually lacked a lot of the elements that make Zelda, Zelda. I understand if other people adore it, but in terms of satisfying puzzles, memorable characters, MUSIC (which the game was heavily devoid of) and sheer combat, BotW didn't really stand apart from the previous Zelda's in any way that I would acclaim as better than the rest. I still remember how hyped I was in Twilight princess when I got the iron boots and started magnetizing to the walls or ceiling of the fire temple. I remember the breathtaking rush from setting sail in Windwaker for the first time, looking out at the vast ocean. I remember losing my **** at how awesome it was to sail a boat across a barren desert thanks to a pocket time-shift bubble in Skyward Sword. I remember how badass I felt after earning the big Goron sword in Ocarina of Time. BotW didn't offer me any such memories, at least not to such a degree. That's just my hot take.

As for the weapon durability system, I get the idea, but I think it should be tweaked so that switching weapons is positively incentivized rather than negatively enforced, like how World of Warcraft swapped out it's fatigue mechanic (or something of that sort) for a rest bonus. It would also allow you to use the Champions's weapons without the guilt of breaking them, and make the Master Sword not just an "oh crap" button.

Totally agree. They could have made a "stale moves" kind of penalty like Smash does where overusing the same weapon nerfs its damage or something. Or at very least, like I said, make a smithing mechanic where you can repair stuff at the cost of collectables. Otherwise, like you said, people just end up resorting to the master sword.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Unrelated, but someone did a Dante Challenger Pack Concept on Reddit, so I thought I'd show it to you all.

Challenger Pack Concept - Dante

Super Smash Bros Ultimate Challenger Pack Concept - Dante (Devil May Cry) Intro Bio: 2000 years ago, the human world was at war with the world of demons, led by the Demon King Mundus. However, the war was ended thanks to the efforts of Mundus’ right hand, the Legendary Dark Knight Sparda. Having...

docs.google.com

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...BotW didn't really stand apart from the previous Zelda's in any way that I would acclaim as better than the rest. I still remember how hyped I was in Twilight princess when I got the iron boots and started magnetizing to the walls or ceiling of the fire temple. I remember the breathtaking rush from setting sail in Windwaker for the first time, looking out at the vast ocean. I remember losing my **** at how awesome it was to sail a boat across a barren desert thanks to a pocket time-shift bubble in Skyward Sword. I remember how badass I felt after earning the big Goron sword in Ocarina of Time. BotW didn't offer me any such memories, at least not to such a degree. That's just my hot take.

I'd argue that the game does have those kinds of moments, they're just generally smaller, and more of the player's making. And the downside with infinite possibilities is that one of them is not experiencing any of these moments.

I think my biggest moment was the road to Devine Beast Va...erm, the elephant one. It was my first time dealing with thunder storms, so I was ducking in caves, and trying to find weapons that didn't get you struck by lightning. Then there's that Lynel fight. The introduction to that boss is amazing for people who haven't already fought them, and the fight itself was quite challenging for me (since I was still well within the "enemies are trivial" phase of play). And then that sequence where you ride on Sidon to try and enter the Divine Beast, is just the coolest imo.

 

[cothero]

Little game for ya'll: can you guess the names of all those fanmade symbols's series?

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[Mapusaurus]

One of. I feel obligated to say this, even as a supporter. I do think she would have a decent shot, but I feel like it's fair to say that choosing a LoL rep is not so cut and dry.

I think her chances as the league rep are really overstated Ezreal and Lux seem more like the de facto protagonists and she isn't a popular champion playerwise. She also doesn't appear in any non-kda cinematics.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Little game for ya'll: can you guess the names of all those fanmade symbols's series?

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1.????
2.????
3. P sure that’s Doom
4. Half life
5. Rayman?
6. Ninja Gaiden, come on its obvious
7. Crash, duh
8. RE
9. MK
10. Xenosaga baybeeeeee
11. Devil May Cry? Idk
12. Touhou
13. Halo
14. ?????
15. Tomb Raider
16. Assassin’s Creed
17. OBJECTION! That’s clearly Ace Attorney!
18. Chrono
19. Overwatch

 

[Lyncario]

Little game for ya'll: can you guess the names of all those fanmade symbols's series?

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1: No More Heroes
4: Half-Life
5: Rayman
6: Ninja Gaiden
7: Crash
9: Mortal Kombat
11: DMC
12: Touhou
13: Halo
15: Tomb Raider
17: Ace Attorney
18: Crono Trigger
19: Overwatch
Edited in becuase I did not see it at first, 20: Portal

I don't know for the one I did not write.

 

[SharkLord]

Little game for ya'll: can you guess the names of all those fanmade symbols's series?

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1. Good question
2. Devil May Cry
3. Doom
4. Half-Life
5. Rayman?
6. Ninja Gaiden
7. Crash Bandicoot
8. Resident Evil, also known as Biohazard in Japan...
9. Mortal Kombat
10. Good question
11. Good question
12. Touhou Project
13. Halo
14. Tales
15. Good question
16. Assassin's Creed
17. Ace Attorney
18. Crono Trigger
19. Overwatch
20. Portal

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Little game for ya'll: can you guess the names of all those fanmade symbols's series?

Please insert you answer in inline spolier tag, ex: like this

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1. No More Heroes
2. Devil May Cry?
3. Doom
4. Half Life
5. Rayman
6. Ninja Gaiden
7. Crash Bandicoot
8. Resident Evil
9. Mortal Kombat
10. Looks like the X-men symbol or something so I dunno.
11. ??????
12. ??????
13. Halo
14. Quest 64?
15. Tomb Raider
16. Assassin's Creed
17. Ace Attorney
18. Chrono Trigger
19. Overwatch

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Little game for ya'll: can you guess the names of all those fanmade symbols's series?

Please insert you answer in inline spolier tag, ex: like this

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1. Never seen it
2. Never seen it
3. Never Seen it
4. Half Life
5. Rayman
6. Mysterious Murasume Castle?
7. Crash Bandicoot
8. Resident Evil (Though I'm not sure the Umbrella Corporation is the best symbol here)
9. Mortal Kombat
10. Xenoblade Chronicles
11. Never seen it
12. The Touhou Project
13. Mass Effect?
14. Gex?
15. Never Seen it
16. Assassin's Creed
17. Shin Megami Tensei #FE?
18. Chrono Trigger
19. Overwatch
20. Portal

 

[SharkLord]

I'm laughing because I literally just checked the Tales wiki not even an hour ago so I have the Tales logo fresh in my mind
In case you don't recognize it, it's someone doing the D E M O N F A N G

 

[3BitSaurus]

I think her chances as the league rep are really overstated Ezreal and Lux seem more like the de facto protagonists and she isn't a popular champion playerwise. She also doesn't appear in any non-kda cinematics.

I mean, Ez and Lux are less protagonists and more like mascots, along with a few others. League's lore is not really centralized - it can be said that a good amount of champions are the "protagonists" of their own arcs. Others include Ahri, Yasuo, Riven, Ryze, and others. This is kind of the main reason why picking a LoL rep isn't really straightforward, so I agree with you on that bit.

Regarding the popularity bit... this is from the same channel you posted once.

Ahri is at least top 4 in the mid lane graph for a good portion of the time since at least 2015. Though unlike others (like Yasuo, Lux and Zed), she's not really played in other roles, and is usually not around the top tiers competitively - which does put a dent on her use on queue.

As for the cinematics note... what? She's had two very recent appearances in the Wild Rift cinematic and the Ruined King one, where she's one of the main characters. Not to mention she was one of the first champions revealed for WR and the fighting game project.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ninja Gaiden, come on its obvious

Mysterious Murasume Castle?

Um...Yep. Obvious...

 

[Idon]

Little game for ya'll: can you guess the names of all those fanmade symbols's series?

Please insert you answer in inline spolier tag, ex: like this

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Stop using the Order of the Sword symbol for the DMC series.

 

[Megadoomer]

Little game for ya'll: can you guess the names of all those fanmade symbols's series?

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1. No More Heroes
2. Devil May Cry
3. Doom
4. Half-Life
5. Rayman
6. Ninja Gaiden
7. Crash Bandicoot
8. Resident Evil
9. Mortal Kombat
10. Xenoblade Chronicles 2
11. Dragon Age?
12. ???
13. Halo
14. the Mana series? (I'm not sure)
15. Tomb Raider
16. Altair Assassin's Creed
17. Ace Attorney? (I think that symbol is used as an icon for the game)
18. Chrono Trigger
19. Overwatch
20. Portal

 

[cashregister9]

Little game for ya'll: can you guess the names of all those fanmade symbols's series?

Please insert you answer in inline spolier tag, ex: like this

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No More Heroes
DMC
Doom
Half-life
Rayman
Ninja Gaiden
Crash Bandicoot
Resident Evil
Mortal Combat
Xenosaga
Monster Hunter?
Touhou
Halo
Tales Of Symphonia
Tomb Raider
Assassins Creed
Crono Trigger
Overwatch
Portal

View attachment 298419
Stop using the Order of the Sword symbol for the DMC series.

That is one of my biggest peeves

There are 2 much better options IMO

Spoiler

Trish

Or the Dante that appears here.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

This was exactly what I had in mind when I imagined what Nightmare would be like. Big slow guy with a huge sword. One is more than enough for me.

But Nightmare would at least have a moveset that looks anything but generic.

Spinning his sword around like a drill, having moves that make him do spin kicks or even a dropkick, he actually can pull off front flips despite the armor and overall frame, literally any move that involves the huge arm, the sheer mixup potential with the stances, dark energy blast, a command dash that can lead to multiple options...

The only thing that would be generic about Nightmare in terms of how he'd look in Smash is the fact that he wears armor. And even then, there isn't a single character in Smash who wears full-body armor so even that would make him stand out.

 

[N3ON]

Little game for ya'll: can you guess the names of all those fanmade symbols's series?

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No More Heroes
Devil May Cry
Doom
Half-Life
Rayman
Ninja Gaiden
Crash Bandicoot
Resident Evil
Mortal Kombat
Xenosaga
Ghosts N' Goblins
Touhou
Halo
Tales
Tomb Raider
Assassin's Creed
Ace Attorney
Chrono Trigger
Overwatch
Portal

Making character icons will familiarize you with series icons, lol.

View attachment 298419
Stop using the Order of the Sword symbol for the DMC series.

Never

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

That is one of my biggest peeves

There are 2 much better options IMO

Spoiler

Eithe the girl that appears at the end of the logo

Or the Dante that appears here.

Pretty sure the girl that appears at the end of that first logo is Trish.

 

[cashregister9]

Pretty sure the girl that appears at the end of that first logo is Trish.

I initially put Trish I don't know why I changed it tbh

 

[Firox]

But Nightmare would at least have a moveset that looks anything but generic.

Spinning his sword around like a drill, having moves that make him do spin kicks or even a dropkick, he actually can pull off front flips despite the armor and overall frame, literally any move that involves the huge arm, the sheer mixup potential with the stances, dark energy blast, a command dash that can lead to multiple options...

The only thing that would be generic about Nightmare in terms of how he'd look in Smash is the fact that he wears armor. And even then, there isn't a single character in Smash who wears full-body armor so even that would make him stand out.

I'm not saying they couldn't give him his own unique features, but they would almost assuredly balance his size and range with a big heavy body and generally bad frame data. That's not a combination I find personally appetizing in a paid DLC character, especially when we just got a character with a stupidly long sword and marginal frame data.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'm not saying they couldn't give him his own unique features, but they would almost assuredly balance his size and range with a big heavy body and generally bad frame data.

Which is already the case in Soulcalibur.

Heck, it's so slow there that it might even get a boost in Smash and still be slow.

 

[Idon]

That is one of my biggest peeves

There are 2 much better options for those who want to know

Heck, I even made my own

The first instance of them putting in the iconic Triple S, DMC3

Never

It's the main motif of the bad guys from a single game.
I hate it.

 

[Greyfox22]

For whatever reason I`m really into the idea of more fighting game characters in Smash all of a sudden; and I'm not even usually into non-Smash fighting games. Tekken, Soulcalibur, another Street Fighter or Fatal Fury /KoF character, whatever. Really anyone would be cool with me.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm not saying they couldn't give him his own unique features, but they would almost assuredly balance his size and range with a big heavy body and generally bad frame data. That's not a combination I find personally appetizing in a paid DLC character, especially when we just got a character with a stupidly long sword and marginal frame data.

To be fair, Nightmare and Sephiroth would be in two entirely different archetypes.

 

[Firox]

To be fair, Nightmare and Sephiroth would be in two entirely different archetypes.

Well, one would be a tall, light range monster with marginal frame data and the other would be a tall, heavy range monster with marginal frame data. Not sure if I'd call that entirely different archetypes. They're also both Swordies. To which archetypes are you referring?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

To be fair, Nightmare and Sephiroth would be in two entirely different archetypes.

Yeah, Sephiroth is a ranged glass cannon with some projectile shenanigans.

Nightmare would be all about mixups by changing stances for different moves and having probably one of the most dangerous grounded games because no way are they not giving preset combos on his normals. That's basic Soulcalibur lmao

 

[I.D.]

You know what Smash really needs though, more robots, there's only ROB and Megaman, where are the robots and mechs and cyborgs and all that good stuff

 

[Technomage]

You know what Smash really needs though, more robots, there's only ROB and Megaman, where are the robots and mechs and cyborgs and all that good stuff

Does Junior's Clown Car count as a mech?

Also, I do think that the Wii Fit Trainer is most likely a robot, because of her appearance seeming not completely human. I think the same could apply to the Mii Fighters, too.

Also, I think it's possible that Game & Watch is a computer program given physical form (like a solid hologram or something).

Edit: Also, Ridley has a couple of cyborg alts. Fox and Falco are also theorized to be cyborgs, too.

 

[Firox]

You know what Smash really needs though, more robots, there's only ROB and Megaman, where are the robots and mechs and cyborgs and all that good stuff

YES. Gimme the robots! Enough of the magic and fantasy stuff. I wanna see some high-tech stuff in here!

 

[Dinoman96]

You know what Smash really needs though, more robots, there's only ROB and Megaman, where are the robots and mechs and cyborgs and all that good stuff

RIP Ray/Custom Robo

 

[Perkilator]

You know what Smash really needs though, more robots, there's only ROB and Megaman, where are the robots and mechs and cyborgs and all that good stuff

Does a robot suit count? Because I know a certain someone who rocks it with one:

 

[Icedragonadam]

ex: like this

You know what Smash really needs though, more robots, there's only ROB and Megaman, where are the robots and mechs and cyborgs and all that good stuff

Bring him back Nintendo!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well, one would be a tall, light range monster with marginal frame data and the other would be a tall, heavy range monster with marginal frame data. Not sure if I'd call that entirely different archetypes. They're also both Swordies. To which archetypes are you referring?

The grappler and zoner archetypes. Sephiroth does take some cues from grapplers with his huge potential damage output and meh frame data on the normals, but his game plan is very much rooted in the zoner archetype. It seems to me that Nightmare would be more akin to Ganondorf than Sephiroth, with big dumb unga bunga attacks a playstyle focused on getting in and landing them rather than using them to keep oponents away.

To be honest, the description given sounds like he'd be Chrom, but a heavy. I don't know if that's laughable or terrifying but it would be interesting to find out.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

more mech fighters
no mention of her

yeah I can’t attach an image but y’all know damn well who I’m talking about