Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Cap'n Jack]

Cortez is the FPS rep!

 

[DarthEnderX]

The fact people are entertaining a TGA reveal makes me happy.

It confuses me, because I don't think Nintendo even does Directs during TGS. Much less announced a Smash Ultimate character during TGS yet.

 

[Dinoman96]

So then are we expecting Nintendo to announce their usual September Direct this year with the notice that Smash isn't gonna be in it?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It confuses me, because I don't think Nintendo even does Directs during TGS. Much less announced a Smash Ultimate character during TGS yet.

Phantom means The Game Awards, as in, the Geoff Keighley thing, not Tokyo Game Show

 

[Megadoomer]

For the five theory, we have to go deeper.

Each Mii costume in the latest pack is a character from the fifth game in their series. Five - a high five is when two people press the palm of a hand against the other person's palm. The recurring boss in the Super Smash Bros. series is Master Hand. Master Hand appeared in Kirby and the Amazing Mirror. Another Kirby boss with a similar attack pattern is Wham Bam Rock, from Kirby Super Star. Kirby Super Star was the first appearance of Bandanna Waddle Dee. People dismiss Bandanna Waddle Dee as "Hat Goomba", even though the Mario games have a Goomba with a hat already:

Smash Bros. all-but ignores Mario spin-offs (sports games, RPGs, etc.) for some reason, so we'll all-but ignore him. However, one of his fellow party members, Watt, is similar to a Sparky, while another party member is a Bob-omb, both of which are from Super Mario Bros. 2.

Therefore, the last DLC character will be Wart (the fifth unique boss of the game - there are seven levels, but you fight Mouser and Tryclyde twice) from Super Mario Bros. 2, which was coincidentally the fifth installment in the series in Japan. (it was released in Japan after Super Mario World) Please don't take this seriously - I'm trying to use Adam West Batman logic.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

For the five theory, we have to go deeper.

Each Mii costume in the latest pack is a character from the fifth game in their series. Five - a high five is when two people press a hand together. The recurring boss in the Super Smash Bros. series is Master Hand. Master Hand appeared in Kirby and the Amazing Mirror. Another Kirby boss with a similar attack pattern is Wham Bam Rock, from Kirby Super Star. Kirby Super Star was the first appearance of Bandanna Waddle Dee. People dismiss Bandanna Waddle Dee as "Hat Goomba", even though the Mario games have a Goomba with a hat already:

Smash Bros. all-but ignores Mario spin-offs (sports games, RPGs, etc.) for some reason, so we'll all-but ignore him. However, one of his fellow party members, Watt, is similar to a Sparky from Super Mario Bros. 2.

Therefore, the last DLC character will be Wart from Super Mario Bros. 2, which was coincidentally the fifth installment in the series in Japan. (it was released in Japan after Super Mario World)

Ok but Wart has 4 letters in his name, 4 being the Japanese number for death and thus unable to join Smash, Hero was a localized name as they're known as Yuusha, same with Pyra who also has Mythra on her side, so clearly, characters with 4 letters in their names can't be DLC, I also checked Wart's Japanese name, Mamu, which also has 4 letters. Clearly, it's the superior Mario spinoff option, Vivian

 

[Megadoomer]

Ok but Wart has 4 letters in his name, 4 being the Japanese number for death and thus unable to join Smash, Hero was a localized name as they're known as Yuusha, same with Pyra who also has Mythra on her side, so clearly, characters with 4 letters in their names can't be DLC, I also checked Wart's Japanese name, Mamu, which also has 4 letters. Clearly, it's the superior Mario spinoff option, Vivian

Well, I can't argue with that logic. Vivian it is!

 

[PLATINUM7]

Well, I can't argue with that logic. Vivian it is!

Don't think the Wahoominati will like that.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Ok but Wart has 4 letters in his name, 4 being the Japanese number for death and thus unable to join Smash, Hero was a localized name as they're known as Yuusha, same with Pyra who also has Mythra on her side, so clearly, characters with 4 letters in their names can't be DLC, I also checked Wart's Japanese name, Mamu, which also has 4 letters. Clearly, it's the superior Mario spinoff option, Vivian

Vivian would be our first trans character in Smash.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Ok but Wart has 4 letters in his name, 4 being the Japanese number for death and thus unable to join Smash, Hero was a localized name as they're known as Yuusha, same with Pyra who also has Mythra on her side, so clearly, characters with 4 letters in their names can't be DLC, I also checked Wart's Japanese name, Mamu, which also has 4 letters. Clearly, it's the superior Mario spinoff option, Vivian

Meanwhile with me, who has been thrilled by the past Fighters Pass 2 reveals and is waiting for the last one to blow my mind completely:

(Hey, you gotta be ready for anything.)

Don't think the Wahoominati will like that.

They have Waluigi in Super Smash Flash 2 already (which is also a Smash game despite being fan-made, not being made by Nintendo, and is STILL AROUND TO THIS DAY). Are they not satisfied enough already?

 

[Guynamednelson]

I was saying for a while after the showcase that you should not expect anything pre October with those comments Sakurai made. Now, It could be a final smash showcase, it could the the tgas, or maybe the fall direct is in October. Who knows at this point? But I would say expecting something in September just doesn’t seem likely to me

One reason I think people are looking at it the wrong way is because Steve AKA Mr. I Need Every Stage Reprogrammed didn't really start development until lockdown and was still finished in the usual seven months. If CP11's development started right after Sephiroth, this means they could be finished in time for a September direct.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Phantom means The Game Awards, as in, the Geoff Keighley thing, not Tokyo Game Show

Oh ****, I even changed the letter myself. My bad.

Meanwhile with me, who has been thrilled by the past Fighters Pass 2 reveals and is waiting for the last one to blow my mind completely:View attachment 321529

Damn, now I gotta watch that again...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

They have Waluigi in Super Smash Flash 2 already (which is also a Smash game despite being fan-made, not being made by Nintendo, and is STILL AROUND TO THIS DAY). Are they not satisfied enough already?

I mean. This really isn't an argument at all, you want MMZ Zero right? Then play SNK VS Capcom, it might as well be the same thing! You want to play as Shadow? Download a mod, problem solved! Unless of course, people want to play as those characters in Ultimate

Vivian would be our first trans character in Smash.

That's where you're wrong kiddo

Every month is pride month if you allow yourself to be consumed by hubris

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Talk of some sort of five theory with no one mentioning the five year plan? You people disappoint me.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

What is this five thing. It is some sorta new thory people are stretching for

 

[chocolatejr9]

Talk of some sort of five theory with no one mentioning the five year plan? You people disappoint me.

Eh, that turned out to be fake.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

For the five theory, we have to go deeper.

Each Mii costume in the latest pack is a character from the fifth game in their series. Five - a high five is when two people press the palm of a hand against the other person's palm. The recurring boss in the Super Smash Bros. series is Master Hand. Master Hand appeared in Kirby and the Amazing Mirror. Another Kirby boss with a similar attack pattern is Wham Bam Rock, from Kirby Super Star. Kirby Super Star was the first appearance of Bandanna Waddle Dee. People dismiss Bandanna Waddle Dee as "Hat Goomba", even though the Mario games have a Goomba with a hat already:

Smash Bros. all-but ignores Mario spin-offs (sports games, RPGs, etc.) for some reason, so we'll all-but ignore him. However, one of his fellow party members, Watt, is similar to a Sparky, while another party member is a Bob-omb, both of which are from Super Mario Bros. 2.

Therefore, the last DLC character will be Wart (the fifth unique boss of the game - there are seven levels, but you fight Mouser and Tryclyde twice) from Super Mario Bros. 2, which was coincidentally the fifth installment in the series in Japan. (it was released in Japan after Super Mario World) Please don't take this seriously - I'm trying to use Adam West Batman logic.

Paper Mario has five mainline games on home consoles

 

[Guynamednelson]

One reason I think people are looking at it the wrong way is because Steve AKA Mr. I Need Every Stage Reprogrammed didn't really start development until lockdown and was still finished in the usual seven months. If CP11's development started right after Sephiroth, this means they could be finished in time for a September direct.

Another thing I'd like to add: Do you really want THE SMASH COMMUNITY to have to wait six months for the final fighter?

If it was revealed in September, we may be spending that month ******** and moaning, but at least we won't be spending even more months ******** and moaning about who the next fighter could be.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Eh, that turned out to be fake.

Yeah I've looked through that book people were talking about with the five year plan and it makes no mention of this at all.

Page 96-97: https://issuu.com/maxpublishing/docs/lsb_spring_2018

Looking ahead to 2018 Max Arguile (Person in question about this "five year plan") picks out Crash Bandicoot as one to watch: "The new game was a huge success at retail with no marketing spend. GB eye (Which is a poster and merchandise supplier) launched after game release which is not an ideal situation, but still had a great response from a variety of customers. More products will be coming from GB eye throughout 2018.

In fact this whole thing had nothing to do with Crash Bandicoot. It had to do with posters and merchandise so I'm guessing the "spanish leaker" the redditor linked just mistranslated what was said.

Boy do I feel stupid.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

The only reason I could see CP11 taking longer than usual to release is because they’re waiting for a specific other release for a hyperrecent final to a two-year long DLC span or, to a lesser degree, they waited longer to start on the final character because the source material released 2020/2021

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

The only reason I could see CP11 taking longer than usual to release is because they’re waiting for a specific other release for a hyperrecent final to a two-year long DLC span or, to a lesser degree, they waited longer to start on the final character because the source material released 2020/2021

This is how Nahobino wins.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Eh, that turned out to be fake.

Unlike five theory, which is completely real.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

What is this five thing. It is some sorta new thory people are stretching for

Its a joke theory about how each character we’ve gotten so far had been related to 5 in some way.

People keep making jokes about how new characters are confirmed because a vague connection can be made to 5.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Five Theory?
But we already know why Cp5 is

 

[Inferno7]

The fact people are entertaining a TGA reveal makes me happy. I was saying for a while after the showcase that you should not expect anything pre October with those comments Sakurai made. Now, It could be a final smash showcase, it could the the tgas, or maybe the fall direct is in October. Who knows at this point? But I would say expecting something in September just doesn’t seem likely to me.

I’ll say this, depending on when the reveal is, it might also benefit some characters more than others. More niche stuff like Rean or Monokuma benefit more from a direct drop, while bigger characters like Crash enjoy the TGAs.

Idk why, but I'm kinda confident that the last character won't be disappointing.
If they put emphasis on the characters people want as shown in the last direct, it's possible they are aware and will go out with a bang. Let's not forget that unlike FP1, there hasn't been a 100% fanservice pick imo (as in heavily demanded by fans prior to their inclusion, but Steve may or not be the exception), a role which Banjo filled.

 

[CureParfait]

Five Theory, Fif from Granblue as Fighter 11 confirmed...

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I like going back to this poll Source Gaming held about a year ago to determine what the top 100 most wanted characters were for Smash, always strange seeing some picks be much higher than you expect like Reimu, 2B and Sol Badguy

Mega Smash Poll Ultimate: The characters YOU want for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Fighter Pass 2!

It’s time for the first results from our Mega Smash Poll Ultimate edition! We conducted this poll back in March 2020 and asked the community a number of questions about how they play Super Sm…

sourcegaming.info

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I forgot to post the Hero one, whoops. I tried to make this realistic, so no non-Square content

...Why do I have a strange desire to suplex that last stage?

 

[Sophitia]

I'm curious, now that only one fighter is left, that means the devs are focusing one just developing one character now unlike before when they did it for multiple characters. That means one of two things:
1. They're scaling down the dev team and assigning them to other projects
2. They're keeping roughly the same dev team size and having more resources devoted to one character

Not sure if it means anything in the end though, I assume it's the former but if it's the latter I would assume that they'd release before TGA, because they obviously already started work on CP11 before Kazuya was released.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Idk why, but I'm kinda confident that the last character won't be disappointing.
If they put emphasis on the characters people want as shown in the last direct, it's possible they are aware and will go out with a bang. Let's not forget that unlike FP1, there hasn't been a 100% fanservice pick imo (as in heavily demanded by fans prior to their inclusion, but Steve may or not be the exception), a role which Banjo filled.

On Reddit's Daily Discussion Thread for Smash, some users were discussing how the last characters in Ultimate for both base game and FP1 were a fighting game character and then a character from an overrepresented franchise. The other franchise that's overrepresented aside from Pokemon and Fire Emblem is Mario, and going on your fanservice pick, this means Waluigi would be the last fighter.

Though I think Mario has the perfect amount of representation considering it's Nintendo's biggest IP.

 

[Deleted member]

You know this talk about CP11 potentially being revealed later than September got me thinking about what mechanics they have to offer if that were to be the case. Vol 2 seems to have been very heavy on the development side of things because of development slowing down and how it's implied these characters were pretty difficult to develop.

-With Min Min, Sakurai was translating ARMS' combat to Smash which most likely took at least 6 months to do. Even with the pandemic taking place at the same time as Min Min's development, it still seemed to have been a difficult task to make regardless.
-Steve's mechanics took the entire team to completely redesign all the stages to ensure they work properly with the crafting mechanics. That alone already makes Steve the most complicated DLC character to develop.
-Sephiroth was probably the least difficult character to develop with how short the release window was between him and Steve, but given Sakurai's vision of him in Smash was to be a Boss character, most of the difficulties would have to be involved with balancing.
-When talking about P/M, Sakurai brought up the idea of including Rex and Pyra together as a duo like Ice Climbers but scrapped it due to limitations in the Smash engine which was why he opted for Pyra/Mythra instead. Even still, it's 2 fighters in 1 character, so it probably took a good portion of time to get done.
-Sakurai made a little bit in Kazuya's presentation talking about game theories on why he thought translating a 3D fighting Game like Tekken to Smash was way more difficult than it sounds, so I can imagine there must've been a great amount of rework for him to get the feel of Tekken right in Smash.

If CP11 really is going to take awhile to officially be revealed like Sakurai implies, all I can think of is what the mechanics will be around the last character and how difficult the development process must be. Is it a rhythm based character whose attacks are connected to the OST being played during a match? Is it a roguelite character where their attacks and specials are different each time they lose a stock? Is it a Action game character based around weapon switching? Who knows what the answer will be until then.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Is it a rhythm based character whose attacks are connected to the OST being played during a match?

Jesus Christ that sounds painful to program

 

[Nekoo]

What if CP11 taking a long ass time is because they ran into a Sonic in brawl situation. Aka, last minute change of heart with a "FIIIIINE- get it in smash" explaining the sudden bump from 5 to 6, and the weird release window of said character?

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I made this thing taking into account the Source Gaming polls top 50 most wanted characters, only excluding mii costume characters (characters such as Travis and Shantae). I'll be happy to explain my rationale if anyone's curious

Also Nekoo that would help Crash's chances (they could've realized how highly requested he is now) as well as Frisk's chances (Sans mii costume was revealed the same day the second wave of DLC was announced, but we didn't find out how many characters until Byleth's reveal. Perhaps they saw the reaction to Sans mii costume and tried to double dip into Undertale?)

 

[Goombaic]

Jesus Christ that sounds painful to program

• Assign a BPM for nearly every single song in the game.
• Take into account tempo changes that can occur during the song.
• Make fighter's attacks dependent on the current song.
• Remeber that some songs switch to completely different ones as a fight ends.
• Remember that stage morph exists.
• Remember that some items change the current track.
• ???
• Agony

It'd be awful in terms of accessibility as well. How do you let people with no sense of rhythm play this character.

 

[SpectreJordan]

The fact people are entertaining a TGA reveal makes me happy. I was saying for a while after the showcase that you should not expect anything pre October with those comments Sakurai made. Now, It could be a final smash showcase, it could the the tgas, or maybe the fall direct is in October. Who knows at this point? But I would say expecting something in September just doesn’t seem likely to me.

I’ll say this, depending on when the reveal is, it might also benefit some characters more than others. More niche stuff like Rean or Monokuma benefit more from a direct drop, while bigger characters like Crash enjoy the TGAs.

Yeah, that’s how I feel. I’m hoping for a TGA reveal for one last dose of hype. Two of my favorite reveals (& characters to play as!) were at the TGAs, so they’re clearly good luck.

Both Joker & Sephiroth are awesome JRPG characters from two of my favorite games ever, so clearly Sora would be the TGA reveal.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

View attachment 321539
I made this thing taking into account the Source Gaming polls top 50 most wanted characters, only excluding mii costume characters (characters such as Travis and Shantae). I'll be happy to explain my rationale if anyone's curious

Also Nekoo that would help Crash's chances (they could've realized how highly requested he is now) as well as Frisk's chances (Sans mii costume was revealed the same day the second wave of DLC was announced, but we didn't find out how many characters until Byleth's reveal. Perhaps they saw the reaction to Sans mii costume and tried to double dip into Undertale?)

I wonder where all the character's heads have gone. I too, think that a bunch of character's decapitated torsos would be pretty unlikely.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

View attachment 321539
I made this thing taking into account the Source Gaming polls top 50 most wanted characters, only excluding mii costume characters (characters such as Travis and Shantae). I'll be happy to explain my rationale if anyone's curious

Also Nekoo that would help Crash's chances (they could've realized how highly requested he is now) as well as Frisk's chances (Sans mii costume was revealed the same day the second wave of DLC was announced, but we didn't find out how many characters until Byleth's reveal. Perhaps they saw the reaction to Sans mii costume and tried to double dip into Undertale?)

I find your placements of Kiryu and Tracer interesting

 

[WeirdChillFever]

What if CP11 taking a long ass time is because they ran into a Sonic in brawl situation. Aka, last minute change of heart with a "FIIIIINE- get it in smash" explaining the sudden bump from 5 to 6, and the weird release window of said character?

Yes, although that character got decided on in January 2020 at the very very latest, even sooner if the Byleth presentation was recorded even earlier, which I think could be enough time to work it into the schedule to have the usual three month gap between characters after Kazuya.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

What if CP11 taking a long ass time is because they ran into a Sonic in brawl situation. Aka, last minute change of heart with a "FIIIIINE- get it in smash" explaining the sudden bump from 5 to 6, and the weird release window of said character?

That's why I've been thinking that Sora could potentially be Fighter 11. Disney is a huge company that can get away with delaying a character's arrival and Nintendo seem to have a lot of respect for them with comments about wanting Mario to be like Mickey Mouse.

That would help Frisk's chances (Sans mii costume was revealed the same day the second wave of DLC was announced, but we didn't find out how many characters until Byleth's reveal. Perhaps they saw the reaction to Sans mii costume and tried to double dip into Undertale?)

Never quite understood why people think Frisk is a likely character. I mean the only reason Sans was included is because he's the most popular Undertale character.