Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Knight Dude]

If we got a new Smash Ballot but for Mii Costumes who would you all request?

Gotta get that PLOK costume my G.

Or Raziel. Or Shovel Knight.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

yes some characters are bigger deals than porky but do those characters have spider mechs?

 

[Paraster]

I've been thinking about the "CP11 was added as a quick bonus last-minute" theory. It occurred to me in the context of Undertale, but are there any other characters that could plausibly fit this? Only others I can come up with are other indies with small/single-person teams which would make negotiation quicker and easier.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Even crazier that people think that's not enough demand to get him in.

To be fair, we're talking about the same company that was reportedly surprised about King K. Rool and Banjo & Kazooie's positive reception, even though anyone in the fanbase could tell these were speculation darlings for some time.

Ending DLC on a pick that is historically a flop in Japan because of the (admittedly huge) western demand would be a big change in demeanor for the Smash team.

I'm guessing it's because of Brazil, which apparently has more Portuguese speakers than Portugal itself does. Granted, I believe Nintendo's presence there has been rather shaky, but it's still a sizeable population to take into account.

Probably. This poll is the Source Gaming one, no? Not sure how big the Brazilian fanbase is, or even why they're keeping tabs on the region/language of people, but that might be why.

 

[Merengue]

I could probably name about several dozen first parties off the top of my head alone that are more glaring omissions tbh.

do it then

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I kinda miss that Krystal isn't brought up any more.

Star Fox is an awesome franchise and she's an awesome character with a lot of potential.

Really wish she came back.

 

[MaplePie]

I always feel people overexaggerate Porky's importance. The reason he was added as a boss in Brawl was because he was the main antagonist of Mother 3, which was relevant at the time of Brawl's development and later release, just like Rayquaza.

He just happened to be also a main driving force in Earthbound as well, and let's face it, Porky doesn't hold a candle compared to Dracula, Ganon, or even Marx (because you bet your ass Sakurai will always show an opportunity to shove in Kirby content from games he made) in terms of importance and general recognition. Weirder omissions have happened in the past.

A lot of people thought that Isaac would be DLC in Smash 4 due to his absence as an AT, the only content we got was the Brawl Remix and a direct Rip from DD. I mean if Tekken could come with a random Heihachi Mii and then later with a full on pack, then the same could have happened with Golden Sun right?

Oh and i also want to say that Diddy Kong, DK's Buddy, who was the MAIN protagonist of 2 DK games, was nowhere to be found in Melee outside of maybe a passing mention. THAT is a far more glaring omission that Porky will ever be.

I wouldn't say Porky is confirmed, but his omission is not overexaggerated. In fact, most of his fans knows his chances are really low. The thing is that not only Porky was gone, but Giygas as well and the Pig King Statue(another boss in brawl). Every playable series in Smash that has a villain have them in some form(fighter/spirit) except for Earthbound. If Giygas and the Pig King Statue were spirits then Porky's omission wouldn't be such a big deal

 

[JamesDNaux]

To be fair, we're talking about the same company that was reportedly surprised about King K. Rool and Banjo & Kazooie's positive reception, even though anyone in the fanbase could tell these were speculation darlings for some time.

And look at the three of them back to back on the poll, which was done around the time of the ballot, which is the reason K. Rool and Banjo even got in.

They didn't know of the demand until we had a direct feed to them, and there's next to no chance that Rayman didn't do well in it.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I kinda miss that Krystal isn't brought up any more.

Star Fox is an awesome franchise and she's an awesome character with a lot of potential.

Really wish she came back.

I'm not even that interested in her, but since it dawned on me that the reason why she'd be CP11 (if such a thing were to happen) would basically be the same reason Wolf got in over her, I'd like to see her just because that'd be funny.

 

[Ivander]

On a different topic, I've been in a Stage Builder watching spree and I've been really enjoying some of the stages that some people are still making. And man, it makes me wish they add some last minute touches to Stage builder, especially regarding the background. Not just with the main background, but also with the background we can create and whatnot. Like alot less space used for background stuff.

Anyway, I still think it'd be cool if a future Smash Bros. had a Mario Maker-style approach and have a Stage Builder that is used for both battle stages and an Adventure-like mode.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

do it then

Sure thing hombre. I'll be including any character that has more than 1 international appearance or has an appearance (outside of Smash) on anything newer than the GBA.

Waluigi
Kamek
Poochy
Paper Mario
Toad
Toadette
Pauline
Birdo
King Boo
Dixie Kong
Funky Kong
Cranky Kong
Rhythm Heaven characters (Chorus Kids, Karate Joe, etc)
Isaac
Matthew
Metroid
Advance Wars characters (Andy, Sami, etc)
Slippy Toad
Peppy Hare
Krystal
Skull Kid
Impa
Midna
Ghirahim
Tetra
Ganon
Tingle
Bandanna Dee
Marx
Magalor
Adeleine and Ribbon
Dark Meta Knight
Susie
Ashley
Captain Syrup
Mona
Jimmy T
9-Volt
Kat and Ana
Elma
Rex
Octoling
DJ Octavio
Lyn
Tiki
Ephraim
Eirika
Hector
Anna
Claude
Dimitri
Edelgard
Euden
Viridi
Medusa
Hades
Balloon Fighter
Astral Chain Reps
Ring Fit Trainers
Tom Nook
KK Slider
Dillon
Excitebike
Ayumi Tachibana
Ray MK III
Glass Joe
Doc Louis
Spring Man
Ribbon Girl
Twintelle
Max Brass
Black Shadow
Samurai Goroh
Jody Summer
Dr. Stewart
Pico
Wonder Red
Louie
Brittany
Charlie
Starfy
Meowth
Eevee
Decidueye
Tons of Pokemon that I probably would break the page if I tried listing them all.
etc. etc. etc.

I could probably add some more given more time, but this is all I'll come up with for now.

 

[Opossum]

I just don't think Porky's absence is notable at all. It's just a joke based on the Absolutely Safe Capsule if anything.

Plus Earthbound isn't exactly a series starving for content...hell, it has more stages in Ultimate than it has games in its series.

 

[SNEKeater]

First of all, the whole "stealing slots" came from you. Unless I specifically say "They stole slots" I don't mean exactly that. Blowing it out of context. Summary of what I originally said so I don't have to debate this with you anymore: Older Nintendo characters like Dixie, Waluigi, Isaac, Skull Kid, etc.. are just more deserving in my eyes than these newer not as popular characters. (when new characters are shown off... obviously they have to build popularity from peoples experience playing the game so the love isn't there yet, because they are brand new...that's the gist)

It'd be much different for any of you if the people you surround yourself with feel the same way about these things that you do, which makes the feeling stronger. I as well as most of the people I know just prefer the older characters we remember growing up with getting in rather than newer characters. It's not to say we hate the newer characters, but it's more of a bummer than anything is all. Plain and simple. That's the great thing about opinions. We can all have them and nobody can really do anything about it.

K. Rool and Ridley have technically been in since 64 through the DK and Metroid franchises, so they are immune to any/all obstacles IMO. A Smash game with older faces in it might be BORING to you and a game with newer faces (what we currently have) might be BORING to me. People are different. No middle ground for folks like us. Trust me. I just choose to look at Smash as a UNION type of thing. Where the longer you have been around, you should always get to the top before anyone else. That is my personal choice and I see nothing wrong with it.

I know you didn't say that literally, but you have implied, as far as I understood, that more newer characters = less old characters. And I assumed you were going by the "if character A gets in, character B has one less chance to be in the game" logic, as if characters were competing for a spot in the roster.

Anyway, you can prefer what you want, no one says otherwise, and personally most of my most wanteds are characters from the 90s/00s, so it's not like I hate old characters or anything like that. But when someone says their opinion, others can also say what they think about said opinion, and that's what I did.

Obviously the old characters have the advantage of being, well, older, which usually means more exposure and more chances to be a part of someone's childhood. So I'm not gonna blame anyone for thinking their childhood heroes are the best, as I'm in a similar position. To be honest, this happens to all of us.
But that doesn't mean my "childhood hero" is automatically deserving, or more deserving than others potential fighters, of being in Smash. Otherwise that's a very weak reasoning if you ask me, because anyone could argue that we would be suffering of an extreme case if nostalgia googles and... They would be right.

That's why I just feel that saying a character is deserving of being in Smash is just kinda absurd. First because they're all fictional characters, Nintendo is the one choosing and the criteria for each choice is 100% different each time, and because it's not an objective thing we can define, because for you maybe Character A deserves to be in Smash, but if we ask someone else they might disagree.

I think part of this whole ""problem"" comes from fan requests with years of support behind these characters. Obviously a fan request getting in is nice and all because it's cool seeing a group of fans getting what they wanted after so many efforts, but sometimes it feels like some fans... believe that Nintendo is obligated to grant them what they ask. As if Nintendo owes them something.
And I couldn't disagree more with that, mostly because that is some entitlement that sometimes transforma, very easily, into toxicity when they don't get what they want.

Obviously in these cases, the old characters are usually the ones with years of support behind it, not the new ones, so the newer characters are seen as a problem by some fans. I guess some of them see them like "they have been around for less time than my most wanteds, they clearly don't deserve to be in, only when they achieve 10+ years of support it's when they will be deserving of getting in".
Which is obviously a dangerous mindset, at least in my opinion. Not saying it's your case, but I'm not gonna lie, it kinda reminds me of that line if thinking, which I dislike entirely.

Again, as I said, most of my favorites are not newer characters. And I myself wanted Ridley and K. Rool, Lyn, Isaac and Dixie Kong, to name a few, for years. So it's not like I despise fan requests or the idea of supporting characters for a long time.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

I wouldn't say Porky is confirmed, but his omission is not overexaggerated. In fact, most of his fans knows his chances are really low. The thing is that not only Porky was gone, but Giygas as well and the Pig King Statue(another boss in brawl). Every playable series in Smash that has a villain have them form(fighter/spirit) except for Earthbound. If Giygas and the Pig King Statue were spirits then Porky's omission wouldn't be such a big deal

..........Giygas has NEVER made a direct appearance in Smash. There hasn't been a Giygas/Guiege Trophy/Sticker/Spirit in the series ever. For that reason alone im not surprised that Porky is missing. If the Main Antagonist and driving force of the first 2 Mother games was absent and no one made a fuss about it, why is it so hard to wrap your head around the idea that Porky's absence may not mean anything?

The Pig King statue being absent means nothing either. Like Porky's Boss status the reason it was in Brawl was because Mother 3 was relevant at the time, but it isn't anymore. Why would Sakurai add an Optional SuperBoss from Mother 3, a japan-only game that was a cult status game at best, over the likes of Dracula, Marx, Ganon, Rathalos, Giga Bowser, and Master and Crazy Hand?

Sometimes some characters and concepts slip through the cracks. Again, how are those 3 bigger omissions than Diddy Kong in Melee? He wasn't a stage cameo, nor a playable character, nor even a goddamn Trophy, despite being referenced in the DK Rap remix. Why didn't the most important DKC character next to Donkey had no appearance in Smash Melee? and even if you gave me a good reason (namely how Diddy was treated as Rare Property at the time) it woulnd't still change the fact that as a character, his complete physical absence in Melee would be more notable than any Mother character in Smash that isn't named Ness or Lucas.

 

[Opossum]

Sure thing hombre. I'll be including any character that has more than 1 international appearance or has an appearance on anything newer than the GBA.

Waluigi
Kamek
Poochy
Paper Mario
Toad
Toadette
Pauline
Birdo
King Boo
Dixie Kong
Funky Kong
Cranky Kong
Rhythm Heaven characters (Chorus Kids, Karate Joe, etc)
Isaac
Matthew
Advance Wars characters (Andy, Sami, etc)
Slippy Toad
Peppy Hare
Krystal
Skull Kid
Impa
Midna
Ghirahim
Tetra
Ganon
Tingle
Bandanna Dee
Marx
Magalor
Adeleine and Ribbon
Dark Meta Knight
Susie
Ashley
Captain Syrup
Mona
Jimmy T
9-Volt
Kat and Ana
Elma
Rex
Octoling
DJ Octavio
Lyn
Tiki
Ephraim
Eirika
Hector
Anna
Claude
Dimitri
Edelgard
Euden
Viridi
Medusa
Hades
Astral Chain Reps
Ring Fit Trainers
Tom Nook
KK Slider
Dillon
Excitebike
Ayumi Tachibana
Ray MK III
Glass Joe
Doc Louis
Spring Man
Ribbon Girl
Twintelle
Max Brass
Black Shadow
Wonder Red
Louie
Brittany
Charlie
Starfy
Meowth
Eevee
Decidueye
Tons of Pokemon that I probably would break the page if I tried listing them all.
etc. etc. etc.

I could probably add some more given more time, but this is all I'll come up with for now.

"Name any first party absence more glaring than Porky's."

Mushroomguy:

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

As for the Porky situation as a whole, I feel like it's a thought that's mutated into something not so great due to the idea that characters have to be important to be included. In reality, they don't, it just helps 3rd party characters get their foot in the door when there are so many good options from the company.

And yeah, we do have a lot of important characters, and that's hype, but we also have the Ice Climbers, Incineroar, Sheik, Olimar, Jigglypuff, Pit, and Min Min. I'm sure someone's gonna argue that one or more of these characters are important, but that's not really the point.

In fact that would prove my point a bit. When talking about how characters could or should get in we tend to focus on what makes a character important in the grand scheme of things, so arguments go from talking about how Porky is important to Earthbound to Porky is an important character in general to actually no, Earthbound is a dead series so Porky is incredibly insignificant.

So where am I going with this? It's been 20+ minutes in the making so I don't really remember. I'm just gonna stop the thought here.

P.S. before someone calls me a hypocrite due to my thoughts on Min Min's inclusion, I should clarify that I'm speaking of importance to gaming as a whole as it is currently in my main argument (whatever that may have been), not as importance within their series.

 

[3BitSaurus]

And look at the three of them back to back on the poll, which was done around the time of the ballot, which is the reason K. Rool and Banjo even got in.

They didn't know of the demand until we had a direct feed to them, and there's next to no chance that Rayman didn't do well in it.

Okay, but that doesn't go agains my other point. We've yet to get a character that flopped in Japan - even if people love to forget K. Rool and BK had a decent amount of support over there.

Combine that with the fact that we only have one spot left and that leaves us with two scenarios: either Rayman isn't happening now because he's flopped in Japan and Nintendo wouldn't think it fitting to end on a character like that - in spite of all the Ubi support... or we're about to see a rare situation where Nintendo exclusively caters to the west with Smash. On the final character, no less.

I'd be happy to have my cynicism proven wrong, but for now I still don't see it.

 

[subterrestrial]

I know toad is one of the biggest fan demanded characters still not on the roster but ngl I'd rather have toadette or toadsworth

 

[DarthEnderX]

The attitude of "new bad, old good" is super dumb, and it's shocking that it's still around as much as it is. Byleth, Min Min, and Pyra/Mythra have just as much of a "right" to be in Smash as the likes of Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo.

It's not about good/bad. It's about being iconic video game characters. Which newer characters just haven't proven that they'll stand the test of time.

Also, Byleth doesn't suck cause he's new. He sucks cause he's the 8th character for a franchise of only moderate popularity.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Okay, but that doesn't go agains my other point. We've yet to get a character that flopped in Japan - even if people love to forget K. Rool and BK had a decent amount of support over there.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Japan have next to no idea who Little Mac was? I distinctly remember that being a thing.

 

[Opossum]

Also honestly I don't even think Porky is the biggest Earthbound omission...I think the fact that Duster makes no appearance as a 3D model is infinitely worse.

 

[Wigglerman]

It's not about good/bad. It's about being iconic video game character. Which newer characters just haven't proven that they'll stand the test of time.

Also, Byleth doesn't suck cause he's new. He sucks cause he's the 8th character for a franchise of only moderate popularity.

I thought there was a whole 'iconic' debate in the first discussion thread and how it's essentially a buzzword that doesn't really aid in the discussion because 'iconic' to one person isn't to another. Like...could Ice Climbers REALLY be considered 'iconic' considering they haven't had a game since the NES and it wasn't even that well known of a game? They got in not really because of iconic status but because Sakurai wanted to put them in more than anything. I don't know if the Icies stood the test of time on their own. Smash did that for them.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Also honestly I don't even think Porky is the biggest Earthbound omission...I think the fact that Duster makes no appearance as a 3D model is infinitely worse.

Duster was done dirty, man. At least make him an assist trophy like Jeff, he could staple you down to the stage or something.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Japan have next to no idea who Little Mac was? I distinctly remember that being a thing.

It was, yes. If I'm not mistaken, only some more hardcore fans knew Punch-Out. To a smaller extent, it also applies to Metroid, which is much bigger in the west.

Thing is: these were all inclusions that happened in the base game and both were first party.

Having a third party character that's like that at the very end of DLC would be a completely different can of worms, though. In any other situation, I'd be saying Ray has a shot, especially if it was a base game or double DLC reveal.

Context is important here.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Japan have next to no idea who Little Mac was? I distinctly remember that being a thing.

He's given a pass due to him being of Japanese origin when it comes to his creation. Punch Out was always meant to be a game with a western mindset in mind, but almost everyone who worked in the first Punch Out games became important figures of Nintendo's Japanese Development teams, including the ever important Genyo Takeda as the creator and designer and producer, with Shigeru Miyamoto as an Artist, and Koji Kondo as a composer. So even if the franchise is more western oriented, i feel his japanese roots helped mitigate the problem somewhat.

Granted, Startropics also had Genyo Takeda on it, and that series doesn't exist in Smash, so maybe im just overthinking it.

(Please bring back Startropics)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Duster was done dirty, man. At least make him an assist trophy like Jeff, he could staple you down to the stage or something.

I believe his character specific mechanic is the ability to turn opponents around, so he could just sit there and do that a bunch of times.

EDIT: Actually I think I recall it being multiple things so I dunno.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

I believe his character specific mechanic is the ability to turn opponents around, so he could just sit there and do that a bunch of times.

So basically a glorified version of Mario's Cape?

 

[MaplePie]

Duster was done dirty, man. At least make him an assist trophy like Jeff, he could staple you down to the stage or something.

I can see him being a stage cameo being part of DCMC in Porky's Stage Empire Porky Building.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So basically a glorified version of Mario's Cape?

Yeah but like full screen or something.

EDIT: Looking it up, he actually has multiple "Thief's Tools" so he should probably do multiple things like Riki rather than just one thing like I originally suggested.

 

[SNEKeater]

I doubt characters such as Ness, Captain Falcon or Ice Climbers are iconic (and I hate using this word), or at least, what most people think iconic means.
90% of their popularity comes from being Smash veterans. I like them, but if these characters weren't in Smash I don't think a lot of people would consider them glaring omissions, or not more than other fan requests we have nowadays.

At the time of their inclusion they definitely were not big icons, that's for sure. At the time people could have complained about them, not that different from people complaining now about the likes of Min Min, Incineroar or Pyra/Mythra, which who knows, they might be considered key character of Smash in 10 years.

This is why the whole old vs new is kinda stupid in my eyes. Suddenly, being 10-20 years old means you're inherently better or more valid? Nope. And the proof for that is Falcon, Ness and the ICs, among others.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Having a third party character that's like that at the very end of DLC would be a completely different can of worms, though. In any other situation, I'd be saying Ray has a shot, especially if it was a base game or double DLC reveal.

It wouldn't be the first time they've ended on disappointment, it'd just be the first time the tables were turned on Japan.

I believe his character specific mechanic is the ability to turn opponents around, so he could just sit there and do that a bunch of times.

EDIT: Actually I think I recall it being multiple things so I dunno.

Yeah it was multiple things, the one you're thinking of is that sometimes he'd be fast enough for your party to be able to attack from behind at the start of battle, he didn't actually turn them around. The staples are a staple of his kit though, even being used multiple times outside of battle in the story.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

I think Rayman's nicheness is a benefit to him at this point. While im not expecting him due to Ubisofts negligence, he's a third party that could be saved up for last, as Kazuya, Seph and Steve are clearly the bigger dogs in this camp.

It wouldn't be the first time they've ended on disappointment, it'd just be the first time the tables were turned on Japan.

Isn't Bayonetta really niche in Japan though? Bayo in general is niche, but most of her popularity comes from America from what i recall.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah it was multiple things, the one you're thinking of is that sometimes he'd be fast enough for your party to be able to attack from behind at the start of battle, he didn't actually turn them around.

Actually he can turn enemies around using the Siren Beetle. IIRC though it doesn't usually work.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Yeah but like full screen or something.

Speaking of full-screen, I can actually name 12 Mega Man characters that do have full-screen affective special weapons, those being...
1. Time Man (Mega Man: Powered Up)
2. Flash Man (Mega Man 2)
3. Bright Man (Mega Man 4)
4. Toad Man (Mega Man 4)
5. Gravity Man (Mega Man 5)
6. Centaur Man (Mega Man 6)
7. Saturn (Rockman World 5)
8. Astro Man (Mega Man 8)
9. Dynamo Man (Mega Man & Bass)
10. Tornado Man (Mega Man 9)
11. Tundra Man (with Power Gear active) (Mega Man 11)
12. Clock Men (Mega Man & Bass: Challenger From the Future)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think a lot of Porky's demand comes from a desire for more villains.

Previously, Ridley and K.Rool took a lot of that attention as major villains missing from major franchises.

But now that most of Nintendo's major franchises have a villain, that demand starts to go to minor ones.

Frankly there are a lot of Nintendo villains I'd prefer before Porky.

Black Knight
Skull Kid
Kamek
Magalor
Black Shadow
Medusa
Hades
Malos
DJ Octavio
Dr. Coyle

Are all more interesting villains fo me personally.

And that's not even getting into third party villains like Dr. Eggman, Dr. Wily, Revolver Ocelot, M.Bison, Dracula, Gruntilda or Geese Howard.

 

[3BitSaurus]

It wouldn't be the first time they've ended on disappointment, it'd just be the first time the tables were turned on Japan.

But that's the thing: it's never happened before.

Doesn't mean that the chances are below zero, or that everyone should give up, or whatever, but you gotta undsrstand that even a few supporters like myself are doubtful that Rayman's popularity, relevance and history will be enough in a situation like that.

Personally, I think the best thing that could happen for Ray if he's not last is being Mii'd. At least that would lend him some spotlight in CP11's presentation and might help win some people in Japan. Who knows?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Speaking of full-screen, I can actually name 12 Mega Man characters that do have full-screen affective special weapons, those being...
1. Time Man (Mega Man: Powered Up)
2. Flash Man (Mega Man 2)
3. Bright Man (Mega Man 4)
4. Toad Man (Mega Man 4)
5. Gravity Man (Mega Man 5)
6. Centaur Man (Mega Man 6)
7. Mercury (Rockman World 5)
8. Astro Man (Mega Man 8)
9. Dynamo Man (Mega Man & Bass)
10. Tornado Man (Mega Man 9)
11. Tundra Man (with Power Gear active) (Mega Man 11)
12. Clock Men (Mega Man & Bass: Challenger From the Future)

Toad Man Assist Trophy: uses Rain Flush "I ACTUALLY DID SOMETHING!!!

I think Tornado Man would make for an interesting Assist Trophy since he increases everyone's jump height.

7. Mercury (Rockman World 5)

I think you're thinking of Saturn. Mercury just stands there and uses Grab Buster.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Toad Man Assist Trophy: uses Rain Flush "I ACTUALLY DID SOMETHING!!!

I think Tornado Man would make for an interesting Assist Trophy since he increases everyone's jump height.


I think you're thinking of Saturn. Mercury just stands there and uses Grab Buster.

Oh. Lemme fix that real quick. XD

 

[JamesDNaux]

But that's the thing: it's never happened before.

Third party companies can't have more than one fighter, it's never happened be-
A single third party series can't have more than one fighter, it-
A single third party series can't have more than one unique fighter-
A company is out of the picture if they got a mii costume alre-

I'm so sick of "it never happened before."

Isn't Bayonetta really niche in Japan though? Bayo in general is niche, but most of her popularity comes from America from what i recall.

She "won" the ballot in Europe.

 

[Knight Dude]

Hear me out y'all

Brawler Villain - Kazuya
Swordfighter Villain - Sephiroth
Gunner Villain - ???


(this is a joke btw)

This is how Vile wins.