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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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mynameisBlade

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I still think the issue with first party characters is that the characters that are notable enough to go decently toe-to-toe with third parties are all individual cases with their own individual downsides. Bandana Dee is a frontrunner when it comes to the “non-shill first party” but his moveset potential has been vastly powercrept since when he started to gain traction. Dixie Kong has an issue of seeming Diddy derivative and characters like Chibi-Robo, Isaac and Rhythm Heaven rep have the issue of being left for dead on the DS and letting out its final breath in spin-offs and megamixes.
Ridley and K. Rool took care of the big four of Smash 4, leaving individual hopefuls instead of a well-defined club of requests. Likewise, Isabelle and Inkling have been our decade-refill of icons, especially when taking into account the straggler that is Xenoblade 2 getting in later. This means the pool of first parties, while not dry, has been thinning out and now consists of individual characters with different niches instead of well…a pool.

Still, the Assist Trophy pool has some great potential fan requests: Krystal, Ashley, Waluigi, Isaac, someone else I’m forgetting probably.
It breaks my heart that Dixie Kong isn't in this game. I know a decent amount of people say how unique she would be and stuff, but if the majority of the community is going to say she was "built off of Diddy Kong" or "a Diddy Kong clone", why the hell not just make her an Echo Fighter? The whole Echo Fighter thing is so severely underused its ridiculous. Why even introduce a new name for these characters and then barely make any.... Sakurai has always been mind boggling to me.... In a bad way.
 
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WeirdChillFever

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What exactly is this "big four"?
I think it used to be the Elite 4 actually, and consisted of Mega Man, Palutena, K. Rool and Ridley, with Mewtwo as the Champion. People later added Little Mac to it once Mega Man had been confirmed but he got in too of course. Between these favorites being added and potential “successors to the throne” being Assisted in Ultimate or added, support for first parties has barely been consolidated.

I believe some of the AT Mii costumes in 4 were due to fan requests: Ashley, Takamaru, Black Knight (who wasn't an AT at the time), Skull Kid (does that count if 4 only had Majora's Mask and he didn't get a real costume until base Ultimate?)

If you consider thread popularity from this forum's Smash 4 section, Ridley, K. Rool, Bandana Dee, and either Rayman for thread views or Isaac for thread replies.
Yeah, popular requests falling together with Assist and Mii Costumes harms perception too.
 
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slrigeigdew

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I still think the issue with first party characters is that the characters that are notable enough to go decently toe-to-toe with third parties are all individual cases with their own individual downsides. Bandana Dee is a frontrunner when it comes to the “non-shill first party” but his moveset potential has been vastly powercrept since when he started to gain traction. Dixie Kong has an issue of seeming Diddy derivative and characters like Chibi-Robo, Isaac and Rhythm Heaven rep have the issue of being left for dead on the DS and letting out its final breath in spin-offs and megamixes.
Ridley and K. Rool took care of the big four of Smash 4, leaving individual hopefuls instead of a well-defined club of requests. Likewise, Isabelle and Inkling have been our decade-refill of icons, especially when taking into account the straggler that is Xenoblade 2 getting in later. This means the pool of first parties, while not dry, has been thinning out and now consists of individual characters with different niches instead of well…a pool.

Still, the Assist Trophy pool has some great potential fan requests: Krystal, Ashley, Waluigi, Isaac, someone else I’m forgetting probably.
Honestly the time of development really screwed over first parties in Ultimate imo. If they had enough time to work :ultminmin:ultpyra::ultmythra: into base roster and saved :ultridley::ultkrool: for DLC, literally no one would complain about the first parties in this game (other than :ultbyleth::ultbylethf: I guess but it is what it is)

In the same vein, Rhythm Heaven would be a great pick while feeling less recency-based and being an actual franchise
This. People are going to complain that it's not a twitter breaking pick to properly end off Ultimate but I think RH has been long overdue for a rep since Smash 4 and would make a lot of sense in hindsight.
 

Dinoman96

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Said this already, but the fact that Advance Wars Re-boot Camp seemingly has no current plans of being released in Japan kinda kills its chances for this game. Like I'm sure it will probably come out there at some point (the original versions of the games on GBA, which originally came out in 2001 and 2003, didn't come out there until 2004!) but I don't see Nintendo pushing a game that isn't coming out in their home country for the remainder of Ultimate's lifespan.
 

Ura

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Said this already, but the fact that Advance Wars Re-boot Camp seemingly has no current plans of being released in Japan kinda kills its chances for this game. Like I'm sure it will probably come out there at some point (the original versions of the games on GBA, which originally came out in 2001 and 2003, didn't come out there until 2004!) but I don't see Nintendo pushing a game that isn't coming out in their home country for the remainder of Ultimate's lifespan.
It'll come out the same day it releases in the West in Japan (like it was with the FDC remakes). Them not revealing in the E3 Direct is a combination of revealing later in the other market where it's not as popular as well as not having a localization ready. Come the September Direct, this won't be an issue anymore.
 
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Guynamednelson

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Xbox fans (to SOME extent) - :ultbanjokazooie:
Sure there might be someone who first played Banjo-Kazooie via Xbox Game Pass and wanted to get Smash for Banjo based on their time playing his game that way, but I think Nintendo nostalgia's who they're really trying to sell the bear and bird on. If I had to break it down, it'd be 80% Nintendo nostalgia, 10% catering to people who have played the series on Xbox first, and 10% hoping someone will buy an Xbox One to play Banjo-Kazooie, especially the Japanese.
 
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WeirdChillFever

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Honestly the time of development really screwed over first parties in Ultimate imo. If they had enough time to work :ultminmin:ultpyra::ultmythra: into base roster and saved :ultridley::ultkrool: for DLC, literally no one would complain about the first parties in this game (other than :ultbyleth::ultbylethf: I guess but it is what it is)


This. People are going to complain that it's not a twitter breaking pick to properly end off Ultimate but I think RH has been long overdue for a rep since Smash 4 and would make a lot of sense in hindsight.
Base game was really really good for first parties to the point where it really wasn’t ready to square off against the floods of third party requests, especially since the at least potential niche-picks-with-a-huge-core like Krystal, Skull Kid, Waluigi, Ashley and Isaac and their ridiculously passionate fanbases were still licking their wounds from their, sometimes late base game, deconfirmation.

RH is overdue and should’ve been in in hindsight, but both terms also reflect that the hay days of the series is long gone and it has an uncertain future.

It breaks my heart that Dixie Kong isn't in this game. I know a decent amount of people say how unique she would be and stuff, but if the majority of the community is going to say she was "built off of Diddy Kong" or "a Diddy Kong clone", why the hell not just make her an Echo Fighter? The whole Echo Fighter thing is so severely underused its ridiculous. Why even introduce a new name for these characters and then barely make any.... Mind boggling..
Dixie as Echo I’m iffy on but at least Octoling and Impa would be like…all really solid high tier requests that could potentially be very easy Echo Fighters.
 

mynameisBlade

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Honestly the time of development really screwed over first parties in Ultimate imo. If they had enough time to work :ultminmin:ultpyra::ultmythra: into base roster and saved :ultridley::ultkrool: for DLC, literally no one would complain about the first parties in this game (other than :ultbyleth::ultbylethf: I guess but it is what it is)


This. People are going to complain that it's not a twitter breaking pick to properly end off Ultimate but I think RH has been long overdue for a rep since Smash 4 and would make a lot of sense in hindsight.
That's the problem though. :ultridley:and:ultkrool: have been highly demanded 1st party for years. That is something you MAKE SURE is in the base game. Neither of those characters should've been DLC and I'm glad they weren't. They deserved to be in the game from the get go just as Bowser and Ganon were in Melee.
 
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Guynamednelson

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it has an uncertain future.
I think it depends on what game will begin development once WarioWare: Get It Together is complete. If it's a Tomodachi Life sequel or somehow another WarioWare, RH is screwed.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Ironic how they include all the House Leaders and Byleth stabbing each other except Edelgard, who would be the most likely to actually that in canon.
Not when your route is the least fleshed out, hardly makes any sense for the protagonist to join up with logically, and is basically the villain path.

Blue Lions is the way. You should've learned by now.
 

7NATOR

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So I'm interested in the discussion of how Nintendo chooses it's DLC Fighters, and I have some takes on the matter, some you may have heard before, but ones I have nonetheless

-I do think there is a difference between picks that are more Nintendo Focused and More Sakurai Focused, and we could tell the difference between the 2 thanks to Official Statements

Hero, Byleth, Steve, and Kazuya were characters that had Nintendo namedropped as the major factor to their inclusion. Nintendo specifically wanted Dragon Quest, Minecraft, and Tekken to be represented in Smash, and Nintendo wanted a character from a game people would be playing at the time, which Fire Emblem Three Houses fit

Joker, Banjo, Terry, Min Min, Sephiroth, and Pyra/Mythra didn't have this happen for them, which kind of tells me that Nintendo was not as big of a factor in the decision as it was with the Above characters, especially in Banjo's Case, as It was said Nintendo was surprised at the reaction to Banjo. I think if they had as much confidence in Banjo as they did a character like Hero or Steve, they wouldn't have been surprised.

This doesn't mean that Nintendo didn't see value those characters though, otherwise they wouldn't be in the Fighter Pass in the first place, but there are definitely characters Nintendo was prioritizing being in. and I think these are the Factors that Nintendo really pay attention too

Nintendo seems to prefer choices from Big, Well Known franchises or Games with a Substantial untapped audience, and choices that is very relevant at the time of inclusion. The Former gets more new audiences into Smash, and the Latter uses Smash as a vehicle for other New software to get a boost in Sales. Dragon Quest, Minecraft, and Tekken are the Former, and Fire Emblem Three Houses is the Latter

Joker had a big game with Persona 5, but even with Persona 5, it can't really compare with Dragon Quest, Minecraft, and Tekken in Legendary status as of yet. Banjo has been mostly irrelevant, and most of his support came from people already playing Smash, Terry is legendary in FGC, but it's still kind of niche in the grand scheme of things, Min Min and Pyra/Mythra come from games not as recent, and Sephiroth doesn't appeal to New audience as Cloud and FF7 was already in Smash before his Inclusion

I think Sakurai becomes more of a factor in regards to these characters, especially in the Cases of Banjo and Terry since I Imagine Sakurai, along with other Circumstantial factors like Phil Spencer's Support for Banjo and SNK's easy willingness were major factors to why they are in Smash today

Sakurai I think has the same standards for choices as Nintendo does, as Sakurai also cares about the appeal a character would have. That's why he's turned down characters for lack of Global appeal in the past for example. I think though Sakurai is more open to the types of appeal a character can have while Nintendo is more particular about their choices. Sakurai is gonna be the one to care more about the Fan requests or popularity of of a character, the Potential fun of their moveset and other qualities, and be willing to ignore lack of relevancy if the character as other factors at play. I also think Sakurai is willing to go for more niche options, where it seems Nintendo wants to go big

Overall, even if Sakurai is perhaps a more major factor in a Character's Inclusion than Nintendo is, at the end of the day, Nintendo has to give the green light to the idea as they are the ones choosing the DLC

And I think even with the choices that seem to be Nintendo Focused, Sakurai also has to be down for the idea, since he and the Team are developing the actual game. Dragon Quest, Minecraft, Tekken, and Three Houses wouldn't have characters if Sakurai couldn't find a way to make them work. this is also not saying Sakurai is not a fan of these characters or games, he's shown is love for all these franchises/games


-When it comes to 3rd parties, Company relations and ease of access I think is more important than people make it out to be. The Asking Price of a character is one major factor, as Nintendo is only willing to spend so much on a project, especially something like DLC, which is going to have more limited appeal than something like a Whole game

But I think just how easy a Company makes it for the Development team to use their character also applies. Every company is different in how they want their character represented in a Crossover game like Smash, and some are more particular about details than others.

Sakurai has stated that the Company has to allow Sakurai to take charge and put his own spin on the character in order for them to be implemented in Smash. Characters development takes a long time as there are alot that goes into these characters, some we might take granted for, so it would be a miss if what a Company wanted and what Sakurai/Nintendo wants clashes in middle of Development

Of course since we don't know the ins and outs of a whole Company, it's only speculation on which Companies are more stickier for Details or representation of the character, but we could infer perhaps from past examples of how a Company has acted with a character, or perhaps the number of (or lack there of) crossover appearances

and of course the number of Companies involved are important, in addition to the above examples. There's a reason Sakurai doubted that he and Nintendo would be able to get Dragon Quest into Smash, As Dragon quest not only has alot of Companies involved, but they can be very particular about the franchise is represented. There's also a reason James Bond didn't get into Melee

-Development is also factored into the choices, as much as people believe that Sakurai can make anything possible. We already know this was a reason Rex isn't represented as playable with Pyra/Mythra, and is likely the reason Steve and Kazuya had to wait to Pass 2 to become playable

Nintendo is the one funding the development of the characters in the first place, so if Sakurai tells them that certain ideas wouldn't be able to work, Nintendo is going to care about that.

I think there is also the factor of the amount of work put in for the Amount of Reward. Ultimately while Steve and Kazuya needed alot of work to fit them into Smash, because they are Big, Popular franchises at the end of the day, It's worth it in the end. I don't see Sakurai and the Team putting in the work they did for Steve for a character that is way more niche in comparison.

Of course it's up to speculation on what counts as worth the effort, and what's easy and what's not

-In terms of CP11, I think if we take Sakurai's words about "1 or 2 extra Fighters intially" seriously, that Steve and Kazuya were actually the more prioritized characters for FP2. they are both Franchises that Nintendo wanted in the game for reasons stated in the topic

If I had to take a guess in what this means for CP11, I think it's either a more Nintendo based pick with a character from a game people are going to be playing in the future (and this would be a very recent addition, and perhaps why there are 6 slots), or it's a character that is more niche in comparison, or is a character that doesn't appeal to new audiences, like Sephiroth as an example
 

Cosmic77

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First-parties have been handled much better than they were in Smash 4 IMO. One thing that really bothered me about that game was that Mario, Pokémon, FE, and KI were the only existing franchises that got new characters. Quite a few got skipped over entirely, and it felt like a lot of important characters/games between Brawl and then didn't get the representation they should have gotten.

So far, Ultimate has given us new Mario, DK, Pokémon, Animal Crossing, FE, and Xenoblade reps, alongside Splatoon and ARMS as new franchises. The number of new stages hasn't been so hot, but otherwise I feel like people had an easier time finding a new first-party they liked compared to the last entry.
 
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Mushroomguy12

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Sometimes I can't help but wonder what kind of comics he would have made had continued making comics from 2017 to now...
He occasionally came out of retirement to make comics for Waluigi being excluded from Ultimate (although that was a video I guess), and made a touching tribute for Iwata's death, but yeah, I think there would have been a lot of evolution in the Switch era with all the new characters and franchises that have been introduced for in and out of Smash.
 

WeirdChillFever

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So I'm interested in the discussion of how Nintendo chooses it's DLC Fighters, and I have some takes on the matter, some you may have heard before, but ones I have nonetheless

-I do think there is a difference between picks that are more Nintendo Focused and More Sakurai Focused, and we could tell the difference between the 2 thanks to Official Statements

Hero, Byleth, Steve, and Kazuya were characters that had Nintendo namedropped as the major factor to their inclusion. Nintendo specifically wanted Dragon Quest, Minecraft, and Tekken to be represented in Smash, and Nintendo wanted a character from a game people would be playing at the time, which Fire Emblem Three Houses fit

Joker, Banjo, Terry, Min Min, Sephiroth, and Pyra/Mythra didn't have this happen for them, which kind of tells me that Nintendo was not as big of a factor in the decision as it was with the Above characters, especially in Banjo's Case, as It was said Nintendo was surprised at the reaction to Banjo. I think if they had as much confidence in Banjo as they did a character like Hero or Steve, they wouldn't have been surprised.

This doesn't mean that Nintendo didn't see value those characters though, otherwise they wouldn't be in the Fighter Pass in the first place, but there are definitely characters Nintendo was prioritizing being in. and I think these are the Factors that Nintendo really pay attention too

Nintendo seems to prefer choices from Big, Well Known franchises or Games with a Substantial untapped audience, and choices that is very relevant at the time of inclusion. The Former gets more new audiences into Smash, and the Latter uses Smash as a vehicle for other New software to get a boost in Sales. Dragon Quest, Minecraft, and Tekken are the Former, and Fire Emblem Three Houses is the Latter

Joker had a big game with Persona 5, but even with Persona 5, it can't really compare with Dragon Quest, Minecraft, and Tekken in Legendary status as of yet. Banjo has been mostly irrelevant, and most of his support came from people already playing Smash, Terry is legendary in FGC, but it's still kind of niche in the grand scheme of things, Min Min and Pyra/Mythra come from games not as recent, and Sephiroth doesn't appeal to New audience as Cloud and FF7 was already in Smash before his Inclusion

I think Sakurai becomes more of a factor in regards to these characters, especially in the Cases of Banjo and Terry since I Imagine Sakurai, along with other Circumstantial factors like Phil Spencer's Support for Banjo and SNK's easy willingness were major factors to why they are in Smash today

Sakurai I think has the same standards for choices as Nintendo does, as Sakurai also cares about the appeal a character would have. That's why he's turned down characters for lack of Global appeal in the past for example. I think though Sakurai is more open to the types of appeal a character can have while Nintendo is more particular about their choices. Sakurai is gonna be the one to care more about the Fan requests or popularity of of a character, the Potential fun of their moveset and other qualities, and be willing to ignore lack of relevancy if the character as other factors at play. I also think Sakurai is willing to go for more niche options, where it seems Nintendo wants to go big

Overall, even if Sakurai is perhaps a more major factor in a Character's Inclusion than Nintendo is, at the end of the day, Nintendo has to give the green light to the idea as they are the ones choosing the DLC

And I think even with the choices that seem to be Nintendo Focused, Sakurai also has to be down for the idea, since he and the Team are developing the actual game. Dragon Quest, Minecraft, Tekken, and Three Houses wouldn't have characters if Sakurai couldn't find a way to make them work. this is also not saying Sakurai is not a fan of these characters or games, he's shown is love for all these franchises/games


-When it comes to 3rd parties, Company relations and ease of access I think is more important than people make it out to be. The Asking Price of a character is one major factor, as Nintendo is only willing to spend so much on a project, especially something like DLC, which is going to have more limited appeal than something like a Whole game

But I think just how easy a Company makes it for the Development team to use their character also applies. Every company is different in how they want their character represented in a Crossover game like Smash, and some are more particular about details than others.

Sakurai has stated that the Company has to allow Sakurai to take charge and put his own spin on the character in order for them to be implemented in Smash. Characters development takes a long time as there are alot that goes into these characters, some we might take granted for, so it would be a miss if what a Company wanted and what Sakurai/Nintendo wants clashes in middle of Development

Of course since we don't know the ins and outs of a whole Company, it's only speculation on which Companies are more stickier for Details or representation of the character, but we could infer perhaps from past examples of how a Company has acted with a character, or perhaps the number of (or lack there of) crossover appearances

and of course the number of Companies involved are important, in addition to the above examples. There's a reason Sakurai doubted that he and Nintendo would be able to get Dragon Quest into Smash, As Dragon quest not only has alot of Companies involved, but they can be very particular about the franchise is represented. There's also a reason James Bond didn't get into Melee

-Development is also factored into the choices, as much as people believe that Sakurai can make anything possible. We already know this was a reason Rex isn't represented as playable with Pyra/Mythra, and is likely the reason Steve and Kazuya had to wait to Pass 2 to become playable

Nintendo is the one funding the development of the characters in the first place, so if Sakurai tells them that certain ideas wouldn't be able to work, Nintendo is going to care about that.

I think there is also the factor of the amount of work put in for the Amount of Reward. Ultimately while Steve and Kazuya needed alot of work to fit them into Smash, because they are Big, Popular franchises at the end of the day, It's worth it in the end. I don't see Sakurai and the Team putting in the work they did for Steve for a character that is way more niche in comparison.

Of course it's up to speculation on what counts as worth the effort, and what's easy and what's not

-In terms of CP11, I think if we take Sakurai's words about "1 or 2 extra Fighters intially" seriously, that Steve and Kazuya were actually the more prioritized characters for FP2. they are both Franchises that Nintendo wanted in the game for reasons stated in the topic

If I had to take a guess in what this means for CP11, I think it's either a more Nintendo based pick with a character from a game people are going to be playing in the future (and this would be a very recent addition, and perhaps why there are 6 slots), or it's a character that is more niche in comparison, or is a character that doesn't appeal to new audiences, like Sephiroth as an example
Holy Moses parting the Red Sea what a long post.

Quick reaction: I actually think the quote about “1 or 2 characters should suffice“ was more about how Nintendo asked him to make more than the one or two he initially saw as sufficient and that Nintendo added other characters to that. Furthermore, I’m not sure how useful the distinction is: I personally theorize that Nintendo insisted on Pyra and Mythra after Rex fell through in base game. I think Sakurai himself would’ve dropped the character after the initial concept didn’t pan out, though that’s of course speculation. The point is that there’s a difference in opinion in which characters actually seem more like a Sakurai or Nintendo pick which still gives us a coin toss on what camp CP11 will fall into aside from a second try at the concept of a character people will be playing the game of now.
 

ZelDan

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Honestly, I'm probably one of the few people that liked Smash 4's first party newcomers than Ultimate's

Palutena, Rosalina, Robin and Lucina, Greninja > Incineroar, Shulk, we got neat retro reps like Little Mac and Duck Hunt Dog (who I find are more preferable ""WTF"" reps compared to Pirahna Plant).

In Ultimate, the only first parties I really liked at all were Inkling, K Rool, Byleth, and Min Min.
 
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WeirdChillFever

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Honestly, I'm probably one of the few people that liked Smash 4's first party newcomers than Ultimate's

Palutena, Rosalina, Robin and Lucina, Greninja > Incineroar, Shulk, we got neat retro reps like Little Mac and Duck Hunt Dog (who I find are more preferable ""WTF"" reps compared to Pirahna Plant).

In Ultimate, the only first parties I really liked at all were Inkling, K Rool, and Byleth.
That might also just be the sheer quantity of non-Echo first party characters in Smash 4 vs Ultimate.
 

ZelDan

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That might also just be the sheer quantity of non-Echo first party characters in Smash 4 vs Ultimate.
The quantity helps, sure. That said I actually played the games of most of the characters I listed (only one I didn't at the time was Punch Out), so I was genuinly happy with those inclusions I brought up.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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My experience with 1st parties (and everyone else) has been:

Character: gets added to Super Smash Bros.

Me: ..."I leik dem now."


Once they're in the game, I seem to form a positive connection with them regardless of my opinion on their inclusion or of their implementation.
 

Perkilator

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inb4 CP11's situation was this:

Sakurai: "For this last spot, Nintendo asked me personally what character I would like to have in Super Smash Bros. I suggested ____ and now I am so happy to finally see __ in the game."
If only it was that easy, but I'd definitely go for Crash or Sora if that happened to me.
 

Opossum

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There's still a lot of first parties I'd like to see. The issue is they're likely not the ones on Nintendo's radar.
Not when your route is the least fleshed out, hardly makes any sense for the protagonist to join up with logically, and is basically the villain path.

Blue Lions is the way. You should've learned by now.
Ah yes, Blue Lions. The route where
You knowingly side with a literal psychopath who tortures and mutilates those he sees as his enemy, forgets half the White Clouds plot exists, and doesn't even bring up Those Who Slither in the Dark unless you recruit Hapi, and is objectively unfinished due to the dropped route split found in the data. Oh, and keeps both the Church and the Nobility in its ending as opposed to abolishing them, despite them being the source of all the societal problems Fódlan has.

See how easy it is to paint a side as objectively wrong when you purposely misconstrue or leave out information? Lmao come now.
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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I do find it ironic that Ryu, Terry, and Kazuya all fell around the same place in each DLC “season”.

With Ryu it was Mewtwo, Roy, Lucas, Ryu then Cloud, Corrin, Bayonetta

With Terry it was Piranha Plant, Joker, Hero, Banjo, Terry then Byleth

With Kazuya it was Min Min, Steve, Sephiroth, Pyra/Mythra, Kazuya then whoever’s next

they all fall around the mid-ending point of each season. I just thought that was neat.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Honestly it feels a bit like non DLC first party scene is/was effectively trying to make up for some dubious absences in previous games. K Rool was an excellent selection for Ultimate, but he would have been just as logical showing up in 4 or even Brawl. Same with Ridley and even Dark Samus to a degree. The upside of getting some long awaited fighters in a game like this is obvious, but it also feels like it effectively means those beyond upper tier of long time requests (your Isaacs, Impas, Dixies, Bandana Dee's & so on) won't really get consideration till the next game if they do at all.

tl;dr The mixed reception to new first party selection is in some ways Ultimate paying for previous Smash's sins in their roster choices more than its own.
 
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ZelDan

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Golden Deer is easily the best route in FE: 3H IMO

-it's the only path where you get both the War at Gronder and the battle at Shambala
-it has easily the best final battle/final battle theme
-you get the most lore out of it

The only issues with it is that Edelgard's death scene doesn't really fit as well in Verdant Wind as it does in Silver Snow, and VW might feel a bit redundant if you do it after SS
 

Michael the Spikester

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inb4 CP11's situation was this:

Sakurai: "For this last spot, Nintendo asked me personally what character I would like to have in Super Smash Bros. I suggested ____ and now I am so happy to finally see __ in the game."
Amaterasu/Phoenix Wright for me. I can especially see Sakurai picking Amaterasu. I don't know why but she definitely feels like a "Sakurai pick".
 
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toonito

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kazuya's so fun im happy he's in the game

i actually think he can return in Smash 6 alongside :ultpacman:

dante still hurts :( my top 3 most wanted are most likely out

inb4 CP11's situation was this:

Sakurai: "For this last spot, Nintendo asked me personally what character I would like to have in Super Smash Bros. I suggested ____ and now I am so happy to finally see __ in the game."
A Phantasy Star Online rep....if Terry's series gave him the idea to create Smash why not give the honor to a franchise that got him into game development?
 
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spicynun

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inb4 CP11's situation was this:

Sakurai: "For this last spot, Nintendo asked me personally what character I would like to have in Super Smash Bros. I suggested ____ and now I am so happy to finally see __ in the game."
I actually hope this is the case. It seems like with Kazuya and Steve at least Nintendo pretty much told him to make them fighters. It would be cool if the last character is completely picked by Sakurai and not Nintendo
 

NonSpecificGuy

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inb4 CP11's situation was this:

Sakurai: "For this last spot, Nintendo asked me personally what character I would like to have in Super Smash Bros. I suggested ____ and now I am so happy to finally see __ in the game."
I can’t believe Mannequin Power Ranger from the hit video game Dragon King: The Fighting Game is making it into Smash.
 
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Technomage

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So, while the topic's still fresh like bread straight out of an oven, what characters that aren't in the game yet does Sakurai love the most? I honestly forgot most of them. 😅
 
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kylexv

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Golden Deer is easily the best route in FE: 3H IMO

-it's the only path where you get both the War at Gronder and the battle at Shambala
-it has easily the best final battle/final battle theme
-you get the most lore out of it

The only issues with it is that Edelgard's death scene doesn't really fit as well in Verdant Wind as it does in Silver Snow, and VW might feel a bit redundant if you do it after SS
Funnily enough, your third point is the reason I didn't like Verdant Wind as much as Azure Moon (those are the two routes I have played). I felt like the lore dump was a little too much right at the end and I think some of the lore dump could have been given to Silver Snow since it's so similar to Verdant Wind already. Not the mention the ending felt a little too good for a game about the horrors of war, since almost everything is answered and all of TWSITD are vanquished onscreen, and this discourages people who started with Golden Deer to try other routes. Azure Moon was the most far removed from the overall lore of the game (TWSITD aren't explicitly seen post-timeskip and it's the only route that doesn't reveal that Rhea is actually Seiros), but the focus on Dimitri and the relationship he has with Edelgard is what made it my favorite of the two routes I played. Not to mention Edelgard's death scene is infinitely better in Azure Moon. Also Apex of the World is better than God Shattering Star. There, I said it.

Oh well, that's just my opinoin.
 
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SNEKeater

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To each his own. Though, I have 0 doubts that the vast majority of people would pick something like Crash, Scorpion or Sora over stuff like Min Min and Byleth every time if given the choice. It really depends on how much pride a developer has. The less pride the more you won't mind giving in to even the most obvious demands.
I mean... It's not fair??

Of course most people would pick Crash, Sora or Scorpion. Because they're more popular. But putting these characters against Min Min, Byleth or Pyra/Mythra doesn't make sense at all. The first ones are characters that beyond their popularity, have years and years of legacy. The second group are modern characters, limited to one platform, and in some cases, from very young franchises.

People wouldn't choose Crash or Scorpion over Min Min and Byleth because they're third party.

I mean the vast majority of my MWs are third party characters at this point, so it's not like I'd be pissed if what you said happened, but I don't agree with the reasoning and I think people gives the modern first party characters a lot of ****.
Being a younger/recent character doesn't make the character less valid.
 
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