Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Guynamednelson]

Paying MORE MONEY for 1st party content as DLC in a game like Smash is just unacceptable IMHO

Depends on if you actually care about playing the game or just getting upvotes from putting Mario and the new Smash character's models next to each other.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Depends on if you actually care about playing the game or just staring at the copyrights section.

To each his own. Though, I have 0 doubts that the vast majority of people would pick something like Crash, Scorpion or Sora over stuff like Min Min and Byleth every time if given the choice. It really depends on how much pride a developer has. The less pride the more you won't mind giving in to even the most obvious demands.

 

[Guynamednelson]

To each his own. Though, I have 0 doubts that the vast majority of people would pick something like Crash, Scorpion or Sora over stuff like Min Min and Byleth every time if given the choice.

Yes but the vast majority of people only need about two characters to be interested in buying the pass, not having the whole pass cater to them. That's one reason why they do "unacceptable" characters.

Plus, if you want to break as many boundaries as possible, you know what else is a boundary? The idea that first-party DLC can only be things that can in some way be considered "shill picks".

 

[Speed Weed]

I was going on about how I was disappointed they didn't make new stages seperate from the DLC fighters, so I made a mockup for if they did. This is what I think they could've done if they released alongside Joker.

Two Sega stages, and one misc. Nintendo one. Snipperclips and Vortex World would obviously have logos, but I didn't want to make one. I'm already working on a Hero version of this.

imagine partly theming your stage pack around SEGA and not taking advantage of the opportunity to add an After Burner stage

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Depends on if you actually care about playing the game or just getting upvotes from putting Mario and the new Smash character's models next to each other.

"Imagine showing this roster to yourself 20 years ago"-

 

[WeirdChillFever]

It would be a huge boon to first party speculation if they had a good one for DLC

 

[mynameisBlade]

Yes but the vast majority of people only need about two characters to be interested in buying the pass, not having the whole pass cater to them. That's one reason why they do "unacceptable" characters.

The vast majority can't be trusted 1st of all and that's why Sakurai does what he does unless people knock down his door with character requests, which is the only reason we have Banjo Kazooie, King K. Rool and Ridley to begin with. Sakurai is a smart guy and he knows fan tendencies as most developers do. To quote Ken Lobb when the new Killer Instinct came out: "Most people that already plan on buying the game will just buy any DLC anyway regardless of whats in it."

However, (with the only restriction being 3rd party) imagine all of us getting to Ballot every single character into the game from the 1st FP - 2nd FP, and most of the choices that I have submitted are shoe-ins.

 

[Guynamednelson]

most of the choices that I have submitted are shoe-ins.

Ehhhhh maybe? Ultimate's base roster was clearly ballot-based, and it still added a few characters with limited ballot support, or in the case of Incineroar, literally could not be voted on unless your vote was "idk any pokemon i love seeing the pokemon newcomers".

 

[Mushroomguy12]

It would be a huge boon to first party speculation if they had a good one for DLC

We've had plenty of good ones, .

I know people didn't like Byleth but I was fine with them too.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I was very tempted to post a very spicy take about first party speculation right now, but I think I’ll respond with something tamer.

The main reason that first party speculation is “shill” picks is because they have been centered on showing off new stuff. Plant I am going to say is an exception, but given the fact plant has a Palutenas guidance while the dlc characters don’t leads me to believe they were envisioned much earlier than the rest of dlc, as something of a pre order bonus.

Corrin, Byleth, Min Min, and the Aegis are what we got in terms of first party newcomers as dlc. And ultimately, all of them were pushing something at least relatively new. First party speculation is kind of dead because until a first party comes in and breaks that barrier, it seems like it just isn’t happening. Now, who knows. Maybe CP11 is Bandana Dee or something that would break that barrier. Maybe it’s something that reinforces it. We won’t know until October probably.

Personally, I am fine with first party speculation taking a backseat for now. I might post my hot take on it, but I’ll wait and see.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Ehhhhh maybe? Ultimate's base roster was clearly ballot-based, and it still added a few characters with limited ballot support, or in the case of Incineroar, literally could not be voted on unless your vote was "idk any pokemon i love seeing the pokemon newcomers".

On that note. I have to say when I first saw Incineroar, I was really annoyed, because I was hoping for Decidueye. The playstyle got me though. He is TOO MUCH FUN!

I was very tempted to post a very spicy take about first party speculation right now, but I think I’ll respond with something tamer.

The main reason that first party speculation is “shill” picks is because they have been centered on showing off new stuff. Plant I am going to say is an exception, but given the fact plant has a Palutenas guidance while the dlc characters don’t leads me to believe they were envisioned much earlier than the rest of dlc, as something of a pre order bonus.

Corrin, Byleth, Min Min, and the Aegis are what we got in terms of first party newcomers as dlc. And ultimately, all of them were pushing something at least relatively new. First party speculation is kind of dead because until a first party comes in and breaks that barrier, it seems like it just isn’t happening. Now, who knows. Maybe CP11 is Bandana Dee or something that would break that barrier. Maybe it’s something that reinforces it. We won’t know until October probably.

Personally, I am fine with first party speculation taking a backseat for now. I might post my hot take on it, but I’ll wait and see.

Speaking of Bandana Dee. I'd say he has one of the highest shots at being the 1st party for obvious reasons. Assuming we get a 1st party of course. I'm ready for a 1st party only because it would end the DLC as they usually do. On a whimper.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

This whole discussion reeks of “Actually what I like would be the best outcome, unlike the things I don’t like.”

We had though.

I know people didn't like Byleth but I was fine with them too.

I love Byleth! I’ve played Three Houses like eleven times (currently on my twelfth run) and Min Min is fun but yknow the latter kinda pales in comparison to Kazuya when it comes to content, legacy and arguably even playstyle innovation. It was also partway a reaction to Nelson‘s “First parties don’t have to be shill picks” agenda when all of the first parties for DLC have definitely leaned towards the recent side and for Byleth and Aegis, have definitely leaned towards the less innovative playstyle-wise as well. I don’t want every character to be a microcosm of a vastly different game and I love Sepiroth for being Sword But Big, but the division of simple playstyles vs complex playstyles has slightly leaned towards first party fighters between Byleth and Aegis.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

We've had plenty of good ones, .

I know people didn't like Byleth but I was fine with them too.

I beg to differ on the opinion that they are kind of boring gameplay wise and not as exciting as what the third party characters have brought to the table.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Hear me out y'all

Brawler Villain - Kazuya
Swordfighter Villain - Sephiroth
Gunner Villain - ???


(this is a joke btw)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hear me out y'all

Brawler Villain - Kazuya
Swordfighter Villain - Sephiroth
Gunner Villain - ???


(this is a joke btw)

ah heck

that’s actually a good question

 

[Technomage]

Yeah, all the first-party DLC's so far have been shill picks, but a non-shill first-party could still make a great trend-breaker and surprise.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I forgot I did an oopsie and compared Min Min to Kazuya, which is weird becauss they play vastly different. Min Min as an addition was definitely unique and I truly think she’s a great example of a first party character doing what only they can do. In the same vein, Rhythm Heaven would be a great pick while feeling less recency-based and being an actual franchise

 

[Dinoman96]

Maybe if Nintendo wants people to get excited about first party characters again, they could start choosing some of their older characters that don't pertain to a Switch game.

Stuff like Isaac, Skull Kid, Waluigi, etc would probably get most people reasonably excited, even if they're aren't big third party characters or whatever.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yeah, all the first-party DLC's so far have been shill picks, but a non-shill first-party could still make a great trend-breaker and surprise.

exactly

With the Switch era being catered to twice in this pass, thrice if counting Byleth, it'd probably be in Nintendo's interests to cater to fans of one of their older systems now anyway, assuming the final character is a first party and not a niche third-party. Or Sakurai's since I always doubted Nintendo choosing the picks="Here's five characters, shut up and go make them", and FP2 makes me doubt that even more.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

Hear me out y'all

Brawler Villain - Kazuya
Swordfighter Villain - Sephiroth
Gunner Villain - ???


(this is a joke btw)

Does Dark Samus count?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Does Dark Samus count?

I think this is referring to DLC otherwise K. Rool would be the brawler villain.

Yes this may be because of the costume.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Old School Nintendo characters?

I'd think Andy would make a LOT of people happy.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Andy's the only AW spirit we have.

 

[PeridotGX]

Hear me out y'all

Brawler Villain - Kazuya
Swordfighter Villain - Sephiroth
Gunner Villain - ???


(this is a joke btw)

papyrus

with a gun. and evil.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Old School Nintendo characters?

I'd think Andy would make a LOT of people happy.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Andy's the only AW spirit we have.

He's actually one of four, and according to our biggest AW fan Ura , they're an odd selection for choosing to represent the series with only four spirits.

 

[Technomage]

Old School Nintendo characters?

I'd think Andy would make a LOT of people happy.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Andy's the only AW spirit we have.

Ummm, I don't think Andy counts as old-school anymore, since we have that new Advance Wars game.

 

[ZelDan]

First party speculation is fine and will always be fine.

This is a largely Nintendo crossover handled/published by Nintendo for ****'s sake lol.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Ummm, I don't think Andy counts as old-school anymore, since we have that new Advance Wars game.

Either way, the fact that Nintendo let WayForward do a remake of the first two AWs, shows that Nintendo does see value in characters of theirs that debuted before 2017 and still aren't playable in Smash yet. Doesn't mean one is guaranteed to be CP11, but also doesn't mean Nintendo believes solely in "Mario, Pikachu, Link, Kirby and whoever debuted on our current system(s), screw everyone else we own"

 

[Paraster]

Hear me out y'all

Brawler Villain - Kazuya
Swordfighter Villain - Sephiroth
Gunner Villain - ???


(this is a joke btw)

QUICK SOMEONE MAKE QUOTE EVIL

 

[mynameisBlade]

I beg to differ on the opinion that they are kind of boring gameplay wise and not as exciting as what the third party characters have brought to the table.

Playing any of the ARMS characters in their own game feels better than how Min Min feels in Smash. Can't really pinpoint it, but Min Min just feels lackluster to me. The way her move set was translated is just unappealing to me anyway.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Wait here's a gunner villain....

Totally kid appropriate

 

[Inferno7]

First party DLCs would be hype if they were actually willing to put in stuff that is interesting or isn't a blatant ad to a new game
I mean, we have stuff like Skull Kid, Ghirahim, Ashley, King Boo and Marx (heck Zelda/Kirby villains in general could be great), but thing is most of the choices I mentioned either got the axe or won't be picked due to recency bias

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I still think the issue with first party characters is that the characters that are notable enough to go decently toe-to-toe with third parties are all individual cases with their own individual downsides. Bandana Dee is a frontrunner when it comes to the “non-shill first party” but his moveset potential has been vastly powercrept since when he started to gain traction. Dixie Kong has an issue of seeming Diddy derivative and characters like Chibi-Robo, Isaac and Rhythm Heaven rep have the issue of being left for dead on the DS and letting out its final breath in spin-offs and megamixes.
Ridley and K. Rool took care of the big four of Smash 4, leaving individual hopefuls instead of a well-defined club of requests. Likewise, Isabelle and Inkling have been our decade-refill of icons, especially when taking into account the straggler that is Xenoblade 2 getting in later. This means the pool of first parties, while not dry, has been thinning out and now consists of individual characters with different niches instead of well…a pool.

Still, the Assist Trophy pool has some great potential fan requests: Krystal, Ashley, Waluigi, Isaac, someone else I’m forgetting probably.

 

[Technomage]

Wait here's a gunner villain....

Totally kid appropriate

There's always this design as a last resort, even if you don't find it to be a good design:

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

I really want Mario as our final DLC.
The true Mario.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I really want Mario as our final DLC.
The true Mario.

Paper Mario and Rabbid Mario both are decently likely. Would be fun to start and end with Mario.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I still think the issue with first party characters is that the characters that are notable enough to go decently toe-to-toe with third parties are all individual cases with their own individual downsides. Bandana Dee is a frontrunner when it comes to the “non-shill first party” but his moveset potential has been vastly powercrept since when he started to gain traction. Dixie Kong has an issue of seeming Diddy derivative and characters like Chibi-Robo, Isaac and Rhythm Heaven rep have the issue of being left for dead on the DS and letting out its final breath in spin-offs and megamixes.
Ridley and K. Rool took care of the big four of Smash 4, leaving individual hopefuls instead of a well-defined club of requests. Likewise, Isabelle and Inkling have been our decade-refill of icons, especially when taking into account the straggler that is Xenoblade 2 getting in later. This means the pool of first parties, while not dry, has been thinning out and now consists of individual characters with different niches instead of well…a pool.

Still, the Assist Trophy pool has some great potential fan requests: Krystal, Ashley, Waluigi, Isaac, someone else I’m forgetting probably.

What exactly is this "big four"?

 

[Ura]

He's actually one of four, and according to our biggest AW fan Ura , they're an odd selection for choosing to represent the series with only four spirits.

The four Advance Wars spirits in the base game are Andy, Eagle, Olaf, and Tank & Infantry. Which is strange because key characters like Max, Sami, & Nell are missing from that lineup over smaller characters. There was the cut Assist Trophy but since nothing happened for Fighters Pass 1, it doesn't mean anything.

With that being said, Andy has a fair chance for the last spot. I would say it's a combination of both legacy & promotion that could get Andy the last spot. Legacy for being the last major long-running Nintendo franchise not represented in Smash Bros (along with it's critical acclaim) with the added bonus of having a new release this Holiday to promote. That's not even accounting for the moveset potential that could spark the interest of Sakurai and the development team.

 

[Guynamednelson]

someone else I’m forgetting probably

I believe some of the AT Mii costumes in 4 were due to fan requests: Ashley, Takamaru, Black Knight (who wasn't an AT at the time), Skull Kid (does that count if 4 only had Majora's Mask and he didn't get a real costume until base Ultimate?)

What exactly is this "big four"?

If you consider thread popularity from this forum's Smash 4 section, Ridley, K. Rool, Bandana Dee, and either Rayman for thread views or Isaac for thread replies.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Here's my take on first party DLC characters...
You can have them.. But I believe that Nintendo wouldn't want most of their DLC to be centered around them. They probably think that many of their fellow supporters play Smash AND the games from which the first party DLC characters come from, e.g. XC2.

The 3rd party characters, however, allow for a newer audience to be targeted upon the reveal of said characters in Smash. For the most part.

The examples:

• The FGC members who aren't big on Smash - and
• PlayStation fans - and
• Minecraft players and PC players-
• Dragon Quest fans -
• Xbox fans (to SOME extent) - and

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I really want Mario as our final DLC.
The true Mario.

I mean we kind of have that already.