Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[UberPyro64]

Master Chief has been seemingly dis-confirmed by Brian Jarrard

As a longtime fan of both games, it would be amazing to have a Chief/Smash announce today. Nothing is happening that I'm aware of, but maybe momentum this week can open a door. If you agree, maybe we can *politely* express our excitement to @XboxP3 and @thetruebowser 🙏

— Brian Jarrard (@ske7ch) June 15, 2021

The Waluigi outcry only seems to be a western thing and from what I've seen Nintendo of America are only a marketing and translation team. I could see Sakurai maybe listening to the outcry but Japan Nintendo are picking out the characters and I don't see them paying any mind to the Waluigi craze. Especially when most of the characters in both fighter passes aren't particularly requested by fans in the west. I mean Banjo & Kazooie got in but I doubt that was done entirely by Nintendo's free will when they're the only characters who were revealed and released with another character being Hero and Terry so I assume they didn't have much confidence in the bear & bird duo.

The other five I have no idea what to think of them so you're probably right about them.

As for who I think is most likely, I know everyone thinks Cortez is a long shot but this is probably the best chance he has ever got into being an actual Smash character. The revival of the series happening within the Fighter Pass 1 & 2 range has brought me a lot of hope. Especially when they brought back Steve Ellis and David Doak to work on the project and uh... Sakurai likes to get the original devs on board to accurately make the characters soooooooo...

Time to Split!

View attachment 321207

The Mojang community manager didn't know Steve was coming to Smash either. It's not a position that would necessarily make them privy to that kind of info.

The thing that makes me think less of Crash getting in is that they've mentioned Smash specifically in those Instagram posts. I don't think they could have mentioned it so much had it actually been Smash. It also seems likely to be that Apple+ series. Or at least something outside of games.

 

[3BitSaurus]

So, playing a few hours of Kazuya, my early impressions are:

• The comparison to Little Mac makes sense. His air game seems significantly worse than his ground one, but he hits like a truck on land.
• Kazuya simultaneously feels heavier than the other "fighties" while also being a bit floatier in the air.
• I actually get why Sakurai felt the need to give him super armor and a bunch of tools. Even with those, it feels incredibly easy to escape some of his combinations or outprioritize some of his moves (even those with Super Armor).
• To make matters worse for Kazuya, he seems to combine Min Min's weakness for short hop attacks during grounded neutral with a general lack of priority in his moves, as well as lag (both startup and endlag). I think he's great when pressuring, but neutral is gonna be a pain, especially against zoners or characters with good to great air game.
• He lacks any reliable approaching options besides dash attack (which has some lag) and his one projectile is so laggy and easy to dodge, you might as well not use it in neutral at all.
• For the casual crowd, he seems to struggle against multiple opponents, like Steve.

That said... he has a lot of options once he gets into an advantage and can kill VERY early. I think Kazuya is gonna end up as one of those characters that you don't see too often in tournaments, but is an absolute danger in the right hands.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

• Kazuya simultaneously feels heavier than the other "fighties" while also being a bit floatier in the air.

Kazuya is much heavier than the others, only lighter than Charizard, Incineroar, Ganondorf, DK, King Dedede, King K Rool and Bowser.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Here's a picture that show all of Kazuya inputs.

Don't thank me, thanks this fella for this awesome pic.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I actually get why Sakurai felt the need to give him super armor and a bunch of tools. Even with those, it feels incredibly easy to escape some of his combinations or outprioritize some of his moves (even those with Super Armor).

Yeah that seems to be his main weakness; If both players press a button, Kazuya's buttons are guaranteed to lose (mostly because Kazuya's attack won't come out in time).

 

[3BitSaurus]

Yeah that seems to be his main weakness; If both players press a button, Kazuya's buttons are guaranteed to lose (mostly because Kazuya's attack won't come out in time).

Not to mention, depending on what you want to do, you have to:

1. Approach your target
2. Reset the stick to neutral
3. Input the move you want

Which is easier said than done against zoners or characters with better priority or air game. Getting good at neutral might be the hardest part of learning Kazuya.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Not to mention, depending on what you want to do, you have to:

1. Approach your target
2. Reset the stick to neutral
3. Input the move you want

Which is easier said than done against zoners or characters with better priority or air game. Getting good at neutral might be the hardest part of learning Kazuya.

Which...might be accurate to Tekken.

Side note: I like Kazuya's sound design quite a bit, and I don't really know why since I hate Tekken's sound design. Maybe it's a discrepancy between how realistic the artstyle is, and how realistic the sound design is, with Tekken's more realistic look making the sound design not fit as much? Whatever the reason, I also feel the same about the hit sparks.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Hot take, smashes hit sound and hit indicators should be like tekkens

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hot take, smashes hit sound and hit indicators should be like tekkens

You mean the sound design for Kazuya's Smash Attacks or the entire game? Also by hit indicators do you just mean the hit sparks?

Assuming you mean for it to apply to the entire game, I'll have to hard disagree there since at the very least, it would remove the character specific hit effects and that's no fun. The normal hit effects are super good as well. That and I don't think Tekken's sound design would work for fast multi-hits like rapid jabs.

Honestly the only character that would benefit from a change in their attack sound effects is Toon Link because it sounds like his sword is made of paper or something.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm curious to why Kazuya is a super heavyweight despite his actual size.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

翼の小さな、主人公のオトモン「破滅レウス」がスピリットとして登場！
7月9日(金)発売の『モンスターハンターストーリーズ2 ～破滅の翼～』のプレイ記録がNintendo Switch本体にあれば、先行して受け取り可能です。#スマブラSPhttps://t.co/bXmtc33Tme pic.twitter.com/7KpdNFrYnM

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) June 30, 2021

Looks like I'll have a gap in my spirit line-up until the next character comes out. I was willing to get Ghosts 'N' Goblins Resurrection because I heard that the game had several easier difficulties, which made the game more accessible than the classic ones, but Monster Hunter Tri was too clunky for me to get into (no lock-on, lots of resource management mid-combat between stamina and sharpening, and weapons either take an absurdly long time to swing or do next-to-no damage with nothing in between), and from what I've seen of the later games, I don't think they've gotten better in that regard.

Stories is more like Pokémon than it is Monster Hunter.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm curious to why Kazuya is a super heavyweight despite his actual size.

Probably the same reason why Sephiroth is a feather weight despite being taller.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm curious to why Kazuya is a super heavyweight despite his actual size.

It helps his superarmor work, believe it or not.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

You mean the sound design for Kazuya's Smash Attacks or the entire game? Also by hit indicators do you just mean the hit sparks?

Assuming you mean for it to apply to the entire game, I'll have to hard disagree there since at the very least, it would remove the character specific hit effects and that's no fun. The normal hit effects are super good as well. That and I don't think Tekken's sound design would work for fast multi-hits like rapid jabs.

Honestly the only character that would benefit from a change in their attack sound effects is Toon Link because it sounds like his sword is made of paper or something.

I think im the only one who wouldnt mind the tekken hit sparks and sounds to be the whole smash game

 

[Twilord]

Makes sense he is floaty when he canonically doesn't take much fall damage according to his lore.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I'm curious to why Kazuya is a super heavyweight despite his actual size.

You played Tekken? Every character in that game gets knocked to the ground like they made of ****ing cement

 

[CapitaineCrash]

The Waluigi outcry only seems to be a western thing and from what I've seen Nintendo of America are only a marketing and translation team. I could see Sakurai maybe listening to the outcry but Japan Nintendo are picking out the characters and I don't see them paying any mind to the Waluigi craze. Especially when most of the characters in both fighter passes aren't particularly requested by fans in the west. I mean Banjo & Kazooie got in but I doubt that was done entirely by Nintendo's free will when they're the only characters who were revealed and released with another character being Hero and Terry so I assume they didn't have much confidence in the bear & bird duo.

Grant Kirkhope actually mentionned that Nintendo was very surprised of Banjo reaction. Link. It seems that indeed for some reason they thought that Banjo wouldn't be that popular. Maybe they thought that online demand wouldn't lead to popularity in the general public (think of it a bit like F-zero or Earthbound who have strong online fanbase but never sold that well).

 

[Metal Shop X]

I'm curious to why Kazuya is a super heavyweight despite his actual size.

You played Tekken? Every character in that game gets knocked to the ground like they made of ****ing cement

They had to put tons of rocks inside their characters models to make sure they didn't moon jump like in Tekken 1 and 2.

#GamingFact

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So I was thinking about potential future Tekken additions, and after the obligatory Heihachi and Jin, my thoughts landed on King. Which has me thinking; If Kazuya is already a superheavyweight, how are they going to try and implement Tekken's equivalent to that?

 

[Technomage]

Grant Kirkhope actually mentionned that Nintendo was very surprised of Banjo reaction. Link. It seems that indeed for some reason they thought that Banjo wouldn't be that popular. Maybe they thought that online demand wouldn't lead to popularity in the general public (think of it a bit like F-zero or Earthbound who have strong online fanbase but never sold that well).

Wow, that does seem to show that Ninty's kinda out of touch with gamers.

 

[Guynamednelson]

They had to put tons of rocks inside their models to make sure they didn't moon jump like in Tekken 1 and 2.

#GamingFact

Moon Jumping is what I'd actually like a second Tekken rep to rely on for recovering, instead of giving them special moves including an up special.

So I was thinking about potential future Tekken additions, and after the obligatory Heihachi and Jin, my thoughts landed on King. Which has me thinking; If Kazuya is already a superheavyweight, how are they going to try and implement Tekken's equivalent to that?

The bigger question is how do you implement King's chain throws without turning them into AAAAAAAAAA like the ten-hit combo?

 

[Schnee117]

Kazuya is fun as ****
And we really did get Go Shiina music so in all this is a top tier set of content

 

[SNEKeater]

I'll laugh if after tournaments for 80s, 90s, 2000s and new 10s, our last fighter is from 2020 or 2021.

Smash Ultimate can't really be Ultimate if it doesn't have a character from the current decade, so...

Let's ****ing he hooo

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The bigger question is how do you implement King's Rolling Death Cradle without turning it into AAAAAAAAAA like the ten-hit combo?

The biggest question is how the heck that's going to look on characters that aren't humanoid. lol

Also I could be wrong, but I feel like they would just get rid of the command inputs entirely since sticking command inputs into the middle of a throw sounds unnecessary. Just have it be a normal high damage command grab. This is of course speaking with 0 Tekken experience.

 

[Guynamednelson]

since sticking command inputs into the middle of a throw sounds unnecessary

But command grabs with a dial-a-combo system to extend them are King's thing. You can't have King without them.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Fools..
We’re not gonna get a character form the 1002s
We’re getting a character from the 1970s

Also, I think I know why… but:
Kazuya fighter spirit is just his Smash render. Guess they couldn’t find a picture where his chest is covered…?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

翼の小さな、主人公のオトモン「破滅レウス」がスピリットとして登場！
7月9日(金)発売の『モンスターハンターストーリーズ2 ～破滅の翼～』のプレイ記録がNintendo Switch本体にあれば、先行して受け取り可能です。#スマブラSPhttps://t.co/bXmtc33Tme pic.twitter.com/7KpdNFrYnM

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) June 30, 2021

Looks like I'll have a gap in my spirit line-up until the next character comes out. I was willing to get Ghosts 'N' Goblins Resurrection because I heard that the game had several easier difficulties, which made the game more accessible than the classic ones, but Monster Hunter Tri was too clunky for me to get into (no lock-on, lots of resource management mid-combat between stamina and sharpening, and weapons either take an absurdly long time to swing or do next-to-no damage with nothing in between), and from what I've seen of the later games, I don't think they've gotten better in that regard.

Oh boy, I sure can't wait to finally get the Arthur and Sophia spirits in a few more weeks so I can finally fill in the gaps on my spirit collection.

Nintendo: Make good friends with that gap because you're spending another 3 months with it.

Tried to look for some internal screaming pics and didn't like what I saw but instead saw a Dragon Ball Z theory ask, what if Trunks didn't have such a big forehead?

 

[Megadoomer]

Well, this is Monster Hunter Stories. It's more like a Pokemon game than an actual Monster Hunter game, if that's helpful.

Stories is more like Pokémon than it is Monster Hunter.

That's a plus. I can try the demo out, at least (I think there's a demo? Not sure how much space is left on my Switch, though) - shame that the demo doesn't work for the purposes of unlocking the spirit.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Guess they couldn’t find a picture

This is correct, I believe they never made a render for Tekken 7 where Kazuya's in his pants.

...and yet they still used pre-T7 renders for Nina and Yoshimitsu because the wedding dress and tentacles aren't iconic enough?

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I'll laugh if after tournaments for 80s, 90s, 2000s and new 10s, our last fighter is from 2020 or 2021.

So our next fighter is from 2020, and Sega is still in the running...

If Nagoshi don't want to let Kiryiu in, maybe Kasuga can be in. Also Kasuga canonically think that every fight he's in is in a video game, so he would be a very fun character to work with.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

But command grabs with a dial-a-combo system to extend them are King's thing. You can't have King without them.

I'm currently looking at a move list out of curiosity and I think I see what you mean (though I still think the extra command inputs are arbitrary without multiple outcomes other than "the move does more damage" for multiple inputs).

Also...

sees Head Bomber

"Did he just..."

 

[Nazyrus]

So apparently Bayonetta is glitching again, but only one specific character activates it…? Sadly, the dude on twitter is not saying who activates it, for whatever reason. I would appreciate it if someone can help with finding out who activates it, or if it's even true that the glitch is back.

So Bayonetta's infamous smash attack visual glitch is back as of 12.0 ... the good news: only one move from a particular character in the entire game activates it. Trivia time: did you guys also find who and what move it was? pic.twitter.com/z73YgAGrnX

— Johto Jonny YT  (@jonny_tompkins) June 30, 2021

 

[Flyboy]

So our next fighter is from 2020, and Sega is still in the running...

View attachment 321218

If Nagoshi don't want to let Kiryiu in, maybe Kasuga can be in. Also Kasuga canonically think that every fight he's in is in a video game, so he would be a very fun character to work with.

I like the way you think!

Ichiban Kasuga supporters, our time is now!

 

[GilTheGreat19]

It'd be cool if we get another villain as the last one...
3 villains, 3 heroes in FP2.

 

[Perkilator]

It'd be cool if we get another villain as the last one...
3 villains, 3 heroes in FP2.

This is how Eggman can still win

 

[Mamboo07]

So, playing a few hours of Kazuya, my early impressions are:

• The comparison to Little Mac makes sense. His air game seems significantly worse than his ground one, but he hits like a truck on land.
• Kazuya simultaneously feels heavier than the other "fighties" while also being a bit floatier in the air.
• I actually get why Sakurai felt the need to give him super armor and a bunch of tools. Even with those, it feels incredibly easy to escape some of his combinations or outprioritize some of his moves (even those with Super Armor).
• To make matters worse for Kazuya, he seems to combine Min Min's weakness for short hop attacks during grounded neutral with a general lack of priority in his moves, as well as lag (both startup and endlag). I think he's great when pressuring, but neutral is gonna be a pain, especially against zoners or characters with good to great air game.
• He lacks any reliable approaching options besides dash attack (which has some lag) and his one projectile is so laggy and easy to dodge, you might as well not use it in neutral at all.
• For the casual crowd, he seems to struggle against multiple opponents, like Steve.

That said... he has a lot of options once he gets into an advantage and can kill VERY early. I think Kazuya is gonna end up as one of those characters that you don't see too often in tournaments, but is an absolute danger in the right hands.

He's basically Shoto Bowser

 

[GilTheGreat19]

This is how Eggman can still win

No...

This is how THEY win!

 

[Metal Shop X]

I don't know if it's the only song, but Heat Haze Shadow doesn't loop well for some reason. That and it's not even the full song.

You think it's intentional or not? 'cuz in either case, it make it alot less good.

 

[3BitSaurus]

He's basically Shoto Bowser

More like Big Mac.

 

[Gengar84]

It'd be cool if we get another villain as the last one...
3 villains, 3 heroes in FP2.

I agree. A lot of my favorite characters are villains so I would love that. Some other characters who I’d love that were at least villains at one point are Magus, Kerrigan, Illidan, Arthas, Xemnas, Jena Anderson, Medusa, Fulgore, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, and Lu Bu. Pretty much every character you listed would be great too.