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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Guynamednelson

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though I still think the extra command inputs are arbitrary without multiple outcomes other than "the move does more damage" for multiple inputs
There's a bit of a "Simon Says" minigame when you're grabbed in Tekken. Press the right button, and you can escape, otherwise you're screwed. The multitude of inputs are to keep the opponent guessing which button to press to escape.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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So I was thinking about potential future Tekken additions, and after the obligatory Heihachi and Jin, my thoughts landed on King. Which has me thinking; If Kazuya is already a superheavyweight, how are they going to try and implement Tekken's equivalent to that?
Now that I've actually seen his movelist, there's a lot more problems than just archetypes. A lot of his Special Moves are just grabs where he sits there and breaks your limbs, which doesn't work on characters that don't have them (INB4 he has alternate animations where he takes a character like Kirby and stretches them out like taffy).

This part isn't really a problem, but a lot of his command normals leave him prone, which is just hilarious to me, and if they do add him, I want him to be able to combo into Getup Attack as a sub-optimal combo route.

Going back to this though:
The bigger question is how do you implement King's chain throws without turning them into AAAAAAAAAA like the ten-hit combo?
Since we don't have access to Tekken's control scheme, his different throw routes would probably be done with different combinations of A and B. Also some of these command grabs do like 75% percent or something similarly dumb so I imagine the grab itself will be difficult to land rather than the grab route being difficult to execute.

So hypothetically:
Ultimate Tackle: :GCR::GCB:
Ultimate Punch: :GCA: (during tackle)
Cross Arm Lock + Cross Arm Twist: :GCB: (during tackle)
Cross Leg Hold + Stretch Combo: :GCA::GCB: (during tackle)

Other command grabs or throws could be more complex if they last longer (and the routes don't have to be compressed like this either, it's mostly for brevity).

There's a bit of a "Simon Says" minigame when you're grabbed in Tekken. Press the right button, and you can escape, otherwise you're screwed. The multitude of inputs are to keep the opponent guessing which button to press to escape.
Ah that makes it even more interesting. Initially I was just thinking they only continued a single route, but after seeing the full movelist, I know that's not the case. Although, now I'm imagining:

Sakurai: explains throw escapes
Casuals when fighting King later on: "Why do his grabs do 70%? It's like "don't get hit or you die". This is stupid!"
 

Momotsuki

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I am enjoying Kazuya a lot. Seriously, I'm having so much fun. And something I'm noticing is that while Kazuya has tools for just about any opposing fighter, he doesn't have any tools that'll handle every opposing fighter. I think that's awesome, and will mean thinking outside the box when using him and when fighting him as well. Alternatively, A A A A A A A A A A.
 
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Gengar84

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Oh, it's fake as ****. I'm just memeing. It can happen though, and it's a bit of a "but what if it hit?" kind of deal. Something something sending a message.
Has anyone tried using it against the AI yet? I primarily play against level 7 CPUs so I’m curious how well it works in that situation.
 

GilTheGreat19

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Aight, so I did some digging and some thinking.

This post will be concerning the SMT V protagonist.
SMT V releases on November 11, 2021 in North America, and November 12, 2021 in Japan

I'm going to say that UNLESS the character reveal happens either in late November or December, I don't think this guy is the CP11 fighter.
Here's why I believe so:
Corrin, back in the Smash 4 DLC days, was revealed to us as a playable Sm4sh fighter before FE Fates even released in North America. It was only available for 6 months in Japan when the Sm4sh reveal for the character took place
We barely got any content with the character, e.g no stage.
We did, however, get FE Fates songs (that don't imply any spolier-y things) alongside two trophies for the 3DS version.

Ultimate DLC has a "challenger pack" format.
Why would Nintendo release a challenger pack for a character whose game hasn't been fully released yet WORLDWIDE, risking putting spirits, stage extras, and more that could spoil SMT V before players get their hands on the game?
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Has anyone tried using it against the AI yet? I primarily play against level 7 CPUs so I’m curious how well it works in that situation.
I only play against level 9 CPUs since I don't have Nintendo Switch Online. As for the move, I use it by accident quite a bit.

Times it has landed: 1 (maybe 2, I wasn't counting)
 

RileyXY1

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Aight, so I did some digging and some thinking.

This post will be concerning the SMT V protagonist.
SMT V releases on November 11, 2021.

I'm going to say that UNLESS the character reveal happens either in late November or December, I don't think this guy is the CP11 fighter.
Here's why I believe so:
Corrin, back in the Smash 4 DLC days, was revealed to us as a playable Sm4sh fighter before FE Fates even released in North America. It was only available for 6 months in Japan when the Sm4sh reveal for the character took place
We barely got any content with the character, e.g no stage.
We did, however, get FE Fates songs (that don't imply any spolier-y things) alongside two trophies for the 3DS version.

Ultimate DLC has a "challenger pack" format.
Why would Nintendo release a challenger pack for a character whose game hasn't been fully released yet WORLDWIDE, risking putting spirits, stage extras, and more that could spoil SMT V before players get their hands on the game?
Yeah. Especially considering that Sakurai refused to disclose the origins of Byleth's last two alts in their Sakurai Presents video.
 

Evil Trapezium

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It'd be cool if we get another villain as the last one...
3 villains, 3 heroes in FP2.
Three Heroes? Okay let's check both fighter passes and see who is a Hero or Villain.

:ultjoker: = Hero (Saves the world from a god and changes the hearts of corrupt megalomaniacs)
:ulthero: = Not sure about him though his name probably does give some kind of hint.
:ultbanjokazooie: = Heroes (Saves his sister from a Witch and stops the same witch from stealing everyone's life energy)
:ult_terry: = Hero (Beats up bad guys like Geese Howard and has no patience for people who are cruel to others)
:ultbyleth: = Hero (Does the same thing as any other Fire Emblem protagonist)
:ultminmin = Kind of? (She can beat up bad guys but not for justice but because they're in the way of getting the championship belt)
:ultsteve: = Villain (Killing the Ender Dragon is the only true objective in Minecraft but because it has no motive to destroy the world and minds it's own business, Killing it is a random act of violence. Sure you can save villagers but that's not required to beat the game.)
:ultalex: = Villain (Same as Steve)
:ultzombie: = Villain (Wants to kill innocent villagers)
:ultenderman: = Passive (Only bothers people who aggravate it)
:ultsephiroth: = Villain (Killed innocent people with the Nilbelm Incident and has Supernova which is shown to destroy the world)
:ultpyra: = Hero (Goes on a journey with Rex to save the world)
:ultmythra: = Hero (Same as Pyra)
:ultkazuya: = Villain (Since Tekken 2, He made the Mishima Zaibatsu into a more ruthless criminal organisation with crimes including kidnapping, extorting money from other companies, smuggling exotic animals, etc.)
 

Mamboo07

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:ultsteve: = Villain (Killing the Ender Dragon is the only true objective in Minecraft but because it has no motive to destroy the world and minds it's own business, Killing it is a random act of violence. Sure you can save villagers but that's not required to beat the game.)
So that's why he's part of the villains in the WoodenPlank comics.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Why would Nintendo release a challenger pack for a character whose game hasn't been fully released yet WORLDWIDE, risking putting spirits, stage extras, and more that could spoil SMT V before players get their hands on the game?
Yeah. Especially considering that Sakurai refused to disclose the origins of Byleth's last two alts in their Sakurai Presents video.
Sakurai's relationship with spoilers is wierd:

doesn't want to spoil why Byleth's hair color changes even though it's not that big a spoiler


spoils seven
includes a twist villian's final boss theme
includes the end level to Final Fantasy VII and explains the events in detail
includes Rex & Pyra/Mythra's spoiler forms (although I feel like that's a mild spoiler)
 

Technomage

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Sakurai's relationship with spoilers is wierd:

doesn't want to spoil why Byleth's hair color changes even though it's not that big a spoiler


spoils seven
includes a twist villian's final boss theme
includes the end level to Final Fantasy VII and explains the events in detail
includes Rex & Pyra/Mythra's spoiler forms (although I feel like that's a mild spoiler)
Not to mention all those Mother 3 spoilers back in Brawl.
 

RileyXY1

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Not to mention all those Mother 3 spoilers back in Brawl.
That was only the case for Western audiences, and Lucas was only added because Sakurai didn't know at the time that Mother 3 wasn't getting localized. In this case, SMTV isn't available anywhere in the world and therefore spoilers will run rampant for all potential players.
 

osby

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Aight, so I did some digging and some thinking.

This post will be concerning the SMT V protagonist.
SMT V releases on November 11, 2021 in North America, and November 12, 2021 in Japan

I'm going to say that UNLESS the character reveal happens either in late November or December, I don't think this guy is the CP11 fighter.
Here's why I believe so:
Corrin, back in the Smash 4 DLC days, was revealed to us as a playable Sm4sh fighter before FE Fates even released in North America. It was only available for 6 months in Japan when the Sm4sh reveal for the character took place
We barely got any content with the character, e.g no stage.
We did, however, get FE Fates songs (that don't imply any spolier-y things) alongside two trophies for the 3DS version.

Ultimate DLC has a "challenger pack" format.
Why would Nintendo release a challenger pack for a character whose game hasn't been fully released yet WORLDWIDE, risking putting spirits, stage extras, and more that could spoil SMT V before players get their hands on the game?
I don't think we're getting Nahobino but I wouldn't worry about spoilers much.

Literally, the only thing in Joker's pack that wasn't revealed before P5's release was songs. ATLUS already showed quite a few locations from SMT V and will reveal all demons before release. You can easily make a challenger pack just with what we already know about the game.
 

GilTheGreat19

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I don't think we're getting Nahobino but I wouldn't worry about spoilers much.

Literally, the only thing in Joker's pack that wasn't revealed before P5's release was songs. ATLUS already showed quite a few locations from SMT V and will reveal all demons before release. You can easily make a challenger pack just with what we already know about the game.
Fair.
I still think my argument holds some water.

Demi-fiend feels more likely to me than Nahobino.

Though getting two demons back to back would feel a tiny bit repetitive.
 

Diddy Kong

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Three Heroes? Okay let's check both fighter passes and see who is a Hero or Villain.

:ultjoker: = Hero (Saves the world from a god and changes the hearts of corrupt megalomaniacs)
:ulthero: = Not sure about him though his name probably does give some kind of hint.
:ultbanjokazooie: = Heroes (Saves his sister from a Witch and stops the same witch from stealing everyone's life energy)
:ult_terry: = Hero (Beats up bad guys like Geese Howard and has no patience for people who are cruel to others)
:ultbyleth: = Hero (Does the same thing as any other Fire Emblem protagonist)
:ultminmin = Kind of? (She can beat up bad guys but not for justice but because they're in the way of getting the championship belt)
:ultsteve: = Villain (Killing the Ender Dragon is the only true objective in Minecraft but because it has no motive to destroy the world and minds it's own business, Killing it is a random act of violence. Sure you can save villagers but that's not required to beat the game.)
:ultalex: = Villain (Same as Steve)
:ultzombie: = Villain (Wants to kill innocent villagers)
:ultenderman: = Passive (Only bothers people who aggravate it)
:ultsephiroth: = Villain (Killed innocent people with the Nilbelm Incident and has Supernova which is shown to destroy the world)
:ultpyra: = Hero (Goes on a journey with Rex to save the world)
:ultmythra: = Hero (Same as Pyra)
:ultkazuya: = Villain (Since Tekken 2, He made the Mishima Zaibatsu into a more ruthless criminal organisation with crimes including kidnapping, extorting money from other companies, smuggling exotic animals, etc.)
Byleth could be considered a villain if they'd choose to side with Edelgard
and commit sort of genocide, because he / she trusts in her, or has feelings for her or whatever.

Luckily, that's probably not the canon route however.
 

Polan

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Aight, so I did some digging and some thinking.

This post will be concerning the SMT V protagonist.
SMT V releases on November 11, 2021 in North America, and November 12, 2021 in Japan

I'm going to say that UNLESS the character reveal happens either in late November or December, I don't think this guy is the CP11 fighter.
Here's why I believe so:
Corrin, back in the Smash 4 DLC days, was revealed to us as a playable Sm4sh fighter before FE Fates even released in North America. It was only available for 6 months in Japan when the Sm4sh reveal for the character took place
We barely got any content with the character, e.g no stage.
We did, however, get FE Fates songs (that don't imply any spolier-y things) alongside two trophies for the 3DS version.

Ultimate DLC has a "challenger pack" format.
Why would Nintendo release a challenger pack for a character whose game hasn't been fully released yet WORLDWIDE, risking putting spirits, stage extras, and more that could spoil SMT V before players get their hands on the game?
first of all its criminal that fates never got a stage without an entire tracklist. its up there with cutting pac maze out. second, i guess they could get around this by making a general SMT stage? the one location that came to mind is the cathedral of shadows. you could even have demon cameos in the background. i dont think sakurai getting access to SMTV pre-release is a problem tho. if he wanted it, atlus would let him. but he might just go for demifiend or a hero-situation.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Tbf, Monolith Soft was already spoiling that way before Ultimate's release. Remember Project X Zone 2?
Didn’t Mecha-Fiora appear as a cosplay for Japanese Xenoblade ads too?
 

3BitSaurus

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Sakurai: explains throw escapes
Casuals when fighting King later on: "Why do his grabs do 70%? It's like "don't get hit or you die". This is stupid!"
Obligatory repost:


Has anyone tried using it against the AI yet? I primarily play against level 7 CPUs so I’m curious how well it works in that situation.
I'd say out of about 10 tries it worked... 3 or 4, at the absolute best. And even then, 2 or 3 of these were against the wall in the Mishima Dojo, meaing there's only one direction to roll out of it.

Hell, the AI once got out by parrying a single hit.

Overall, I think most of the KO options are not nearly as OP as they might have seemed in the presentation. Each one has very clear limitations and downsides.
 

Stratos

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If they are to put someone from the Mortal Kombat series, they will put Scorpion because not only he is the mascot of the series, but he is also a mascot of the company that makes it the NetherRealm Studios.
 

SKX31

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He's basically Shoto Bowser
Think you might wanna check out Maximillian's video on the Shoto topic: while Kazuya share some traits with Shotos - depending on definition used - he does not fight the same really. Especially since in Tekken movement is defence while in Street Fighter defence is more centered around blocking IIRC.

Not really Bowser either - Bowser typically wants to turn a game into a bar brawl, Kazuya generally wants to evade missed attacks / mitigate them and punish hard.

You actually landed that in matches? 'Cuz near as I can tell it's not a true combo, at least not with DI.
Oh, it's fake as ****. I'm just memeing. It can happen though, and it's a bit of a "but what if it hit?" kind of deal. Something something sending a message.
Nope, it isn't true - the opponent can escape it by the time the 5th or so hit (the kicks) start coming in. Personally I've used it in Quickplay to pressure the opponent and make them do a panic move (although varying it a bit with the 3-hit Flash Punch, where one delays hit #3 a bit, is a good idea). It can cause some janky situations if the one hit falls off the edge, since that can cause buffered airdodges:



(And yeah, I got the exact same situation as the above on a Hero player. Who had spent almost all mana to add insult to injury.)


About budget restrictions causing only characters with Japanese and English audio (or less) to be feasible? Dunno.
It is worth mentioning that :ultminmin is voiced a Japanese actress - Haruna Takatsu - speaking Mandarin. Which makes that aspect a bit more difficult to judge.
 
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Gengar84

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If they are to put someone from the Mortal Kombat series, they will put Scorpion because not only he is the mascot of the series, but he is also a mascot of the company that makes it the NetherRealm Studios.
That’s probably true. I’d rather have Sub-Zero but Scorpion is the poster boy. The good news is Sub-Zero is an easy semiclone if they base their movesets off the classic games.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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It is worth mentioning that :ultminmin is voiced a Japanese actress - Haruna Takatsu - speaking Mandarin. Which makes that aspect a bit more difficult to judge.
I don't think that specifically means anything since I'm pretty sure they just used the same actor that was cast for her role in ARMS; It wouldn't mean that the Smash team was avoiding hiring a Chinese actor for budgetary reasons.
 
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