Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SpecterFlower]

Care to explain yourself on that one with something that isn't just "songs are only from II" or anything similar?


Two characters, including the only third-party villain
Two stages, one of them being a tribute to the ending moments of FF7
11 songs, including some that aren't even from a video game
More spirits than any other DLC so far
Cloud getting a Final Smash that changes based on his alt

If you look at the entire FF series, then yes, it's not covering a lot, but if you only look at FF7 specifically, which even the game itself does, it's arguably one of the best represented third-parties.

for both of these series all their representation comes from 1 game, for street fighter it isn't egregious, but for Final Fantasy they could have at least included terra's theme or something, sure if you put FF7 in a vacuum it has good musical representation, but it's not in a vacuum it's from a franchise with 18 main games worth of music. SF2 and FF7 are well represented musically however SF and FF in general are horribly represented.

 

[cashregister9]

Don't mean to burst your bubble, but the Direct archive actually updates rather frequently now. Like everyday afaik. So unfortunately, that don't mean anything anymore :V

Figured as much, I remembered hearing something like that but I couldn't exactly remember the details so I decided to post.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

And the DK rap remix might be one of the worst things I have heard in my life.

It was pretty good in Melee.

Smash 4 and Ultimate cut it down by half for unknown reasons.

Yep:

They cut out the Lanky, Cranky, Tiny, and Chunky parts out of the song in future Smash titles.

 

[SharkLord]

Now that the conversation's shifting towards Ryza, I can now shill her moveset potential.

Ryza mainly fights with a staff, which is basically just a big whacky stick. Her full three-hit combo could easily lend itself to a jab combo, perhaps with some tweaks to the third hit to make it more practical. However, she has three other potential options: Items, gathering tools, and magic.

Magic would probably get the least amount of focus due to being the least integral to the alchemy aspect of the game. It's never really explained, Ryza and the gang can just cast magic because... Well, just because. I'd imagine it would mostly be reserved to some short-ranged bursts and enhanced strikes like with Zelda.

Items would probably get the most attention devoted to them, being the end result of the series' famed alchemy. I'd imagine it would function like a cross between Steve and Hero's gimmicks, collecting a bunch of resources and having a selection of moves to use. In this case, she could either create items drawn from the Atelier games or just create Smash items. Either way, they'd probably be like normal items that can be held and thrown, much like how Link's Bomb Runes work.

The gathering tools would likely make up her specials. Aside from her staff, Ryza can craft a wide array of gathering tools that can collect items from different gathering spots or give different yields from the same spot. To my knowledge, these are:

• Scythe - Used for precision, such as scraping moss off a rock or harvesting crops
• Axe - Used for chopping into tougher objects, like stone or wood
• Hammer - Used for smashing apart tougher stuff the axe can't chop, and breaking down barricades to reach new areas
• Bomb Rod - Haven't gotten to this one yet, but I'd assume it's for blasting stuff to bits
• Fishing Rod - Used for catching fish. The game so far has been largely in-land, so it hasn't seen much use
• Bug Net - Haven't gotten to this one either but it's pretty clearly used for catching bugs

It should also be noted that certain recipes can combine the gathering tools-Scythe and Axe, Hammer and Bomb Rod, and Fishing Rod and Bug Net. These essentially give you the same haul as if you used both tools at once plus some bonuses in some cases, and pretty much invalidate the tools they came from. If we're low on space, we could always use the combines tools to make things easier without leaving anything out.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

for both of these series all their representation comes from 1 game, for street fighter it isn't egregious, but for Final Fantasy they could have at least included terra's theme or something, sure if you put FF7 in a vacuum it has good musical representation, but it's not in a vacuum it's from a franchise with 18 main games worth of music. SF2 and FF7 are well represented musically however SF and FF in general are horribly represented.

SF2 tracks are all over the franchise in future games though. Literally all of these tracks are remixed in SF4 games, for example.

So in a way, it's pretty much as accurate as the actual franchise. Some stuff from III, IV and V would be appreciated, but it's not the end of the world if we don't see any of it because of how influential SF2 has been.

As for FF, again, even the game itself vaccuums things into FF7. Ever looked at the song menus?

 

[Faso115]

The one thing that i was wondering about Chun-li is who is going to voice her. On one hand, Laura Bailey is in this game buuuuuuuut it's reused lines from the last game and she is union-only VA. Then i went and checked Teppen to see who voices Chun-Li since it's kind of the latest game that features voicework for Chun and she is voice by Ashley Burch (also voiced her in MVCI)

Huh, last i heard Burch is also union. Smash doesn't really do union based work last i heard

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

They cut out the Lanky, Cranky, Tiny, and Chunky parts out of the song in future Smash titles.

Both versions need to leave my ears alone. Why they kept the part that sounds objectively bad I will never know.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

The one thing that i was wondering about Chun-li is who is going to voice her. On one hand, Laura Bailey is in this game buuuuuuuut it's reused lines from the last game and she is union-only VA. Then i went and checked Teppen to see who voices Chun-Li since it's kind of the latest game that features voicework for Chun and she is voice by Ashley Burch (also voiced her in MVCI)

Huh, last i heard Burch is also union. Smash doesn't really do union based work last i heard

A... the voice actors who did Viridi and Palutena in Smash 4 and Kid Icarus were Union voice actors as they do voices for cartoons and anime.

 

[CannonStreak]

Both versions need to leave my ears alone. Why they kept the part that sounds objectively bad I will never know.

I guess that coconut gun shot ya, and it did hurt, huh? Lol

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The one thing that i was wondering about Chun-li is who is going to voice her. On one hand, Laura Bailey is in this game buuuuuuuut it's reused lines from the last game and she is union-only VA. Then i went and checked Teppen to see who voices Chun-Li since it's kind of the latest game that features voicework for Chun and she is voice by Ashley Burch (also voiced her in MVCI)

Huh, last i heard Burch is also union. Smash doesn't really do union based work last i heard

Some unionized VAs can sometimes dodge unions to join other projects.

Pit's English VA, Antony Del Rio, is also union, but isn't credited, for example.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Both versions need to leave my ears alone. Why they kept the part that sounds objectively bad I will never know.

the DK segment isn't that bad, but Diddy kong's.............. WHAT HAPPENED!?!?!? who decided that was a good idea!?!?!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

A... the voice actors who did Viridi and Palutena in Smash 4 and Kid Icarus were Union voice actors as they do voices for cartoons and anime.

They're here through the power of loopholes: They're unaccredited, which I guess stops their union rules from applying.

Other characters like Cloud don't have their English voice actor because they're unionized and can't get anyone else. If Chun-Li is like that, they may not add her for that reason since Ryu and Ken do have their English voice actors...Or they'll just say "screw it" and only add the Japanese voice actor.

 

[RileyXY1]

I'm not so sure about Chun Li getting in, especially considering that Street Fighter doesn't have the same awful representation that Final Fantasy had pre-Sephiroth.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So... When do y'all think we'll reach the point where we'll know either when Fighter's Pass 2 is the end or they're making a Fighter's Pass 3? I'm thinking FP10 is going to be when we'll hear that surprise bonus DLC announcement since that was the case during Terry's announcement in Fighter's Pass 1 as he was the second to last. If not then, than I think Fighter's Pass 2 is it.

 

[RileyXY1]

I believe that FP2 is indeed it and there will be no more Ultimate DLC after that.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So... When do y'all think we'll reach the point where we'll know either when Fighter's Pass 2 is the end or they're making a Fighter's Pass 3? I'm thinking FP10 is going to be when we'll hear that surprise bonus DLC announcement since that was the case during Terry's announcement in Fighter's Pass 1 as he was the second to last. If not then, than I think Fighter's Pass 2 is it.

Mmm, maybe at FP9 they’ll announce more fighters. Otherwise they’ll do what they did with smash 4 and the last two are the actual last ones

 

[RetrogamerMax]

They're here through the power of loopholes: They're unaccredited, which I guess stops their union rules from applying.

Other characters like Cloud don't have their English voice actor because they're unionized and can't get anyone else. If Chun-Li is like that, they may not add her for that reason since Ryu and Ken do have their English voice actors...Or they'll just say "screw it" and only add the Japanese voice actor.

I mean Ike, Robin, Lucina, and Corrin all had their English voice actors in the game before Marth's and Marth still had his Japanese voice actor up until Ultimate. I can picture them getting Chun-Li in with only her Japanese voice actor voicing her.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think that Capcom will instead go for a new franchise that doesn't currently have a playable character.

 

[Arcanir]

The one thing that i was wondering about Chun-li is who is going to voice her. On one hand, Laura Bailey is in this game buuuuuuuut it's reused lines from the last game and she is union-only VA. Then i went and checked Teppen to see who voices Chun-Li since it's kind of the latest game that features voicework for Chun and she is voice by Ashley Burch (also voiced her in MVCI)

Huh, last i heard Burch is also union. Smash doesn't really do union based work last i heard

It's a bit of a mess really, some union actors are able to return and reprise their roles credited, some have to go uncredited, and some either have to use clips to get by or are just replaced/ignored entirely.

The Metal Gear characters for instance were able to keep their voices and were credited, but it required negotiations between their union and NoA for it to happen. On the other hand, Sonic and Cloud (and Sephiroth) have unionized VAs, but didn't get them in to reprise their roles for Smash, instead using clips from their own games in the case of Sonic (plus one from his Brawl VA due to the lack of a snoring clip) while the latter went the Melee Marth route and just didn't bother with it entirely.

Kid Icarus in particular is a mess. With Smash 4 we were able to get Pit's, Dark Pit's, and Viridi's voice actors back, albeit uncredited, but the ATs and Palutena's had to be replaced with sound alikes. With Ultimate, there was an attempt to get Palutena's old VA back, but she refused due to the game not being unionized and Viridi's old VA didn't return either for reasons we don't know, instead getting the sound alike treatment as well while the old clips remained for the veterans, leaving Pit and Dark Pit as the only characters to keep their original voices in Ultimate.

With Ashley Burch it depends on how she and her union would want to go about a role reprisal for Ultimate. Considering Ryu and Ken have their VAs, it's probably safe to say Chun-Li would be dubbed, but how is another matter entirely. They could keep Ashley Burch and just have her go uncredited, or they could just give her a sound alike like what they did with Palutena.

Or they could've avoided this by just unionizing the game.

 

[Goombaic]

No one one brought up Simon or Castlevania in Smash until Vergeben arrived on the scene.

That's not true at all. Simon was one of the more popular third party requests during Smash 4 and maybe Brawl. The ballot helped getting him to Ultimate.

[Castlevania] was highly requested in the Smash Ballot, and when it came time to add new content Sakurai says his choices were limited.

(see next) pic.twitter.com/T2wx5aGnLf

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) December 17, 2018

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I'm not so sure about Chun Li getting in, especially considering that Street Fighter doesn't have the same awful representation that Final Fantasy had pre-Sephiroth.

Is there any character you aren't "not so sure about getting in"?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think that Capcom will instead go for a new franchise that doesn't currently have a playable character.

Capcom isn't the one picking the fighters. If that's the decision, it'll be Nintendo's decision.

And on that front, I don't think Final Fantasy VII's lack of content means anything in that decision. In the end, it's still more Final Fantasy VII, and it appeals to more or less the same people. So, the question posed is likely "is Sephiroth's caliber big enough to give us as good or better interest in this DLC content?" After Hero was added, that answer clearly became "yes". So...

Is Chun-Li's caliber big enough to garner as good or better interest in a Fighter Pack as say, a character from the Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, or Devil May Cry series?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, but it's weird no one even brings up the other 3rd party NES All Stars in a serious discussion once in awhile.

It's ALL I EVER TALK ABOUT!

 

[RileyXY1]

Capcom isn't the one picking the fighters. If that's the decision, it'll be Nintendo's decision.

And on that front, I don't think Final Fantasy VII's lack of content means anything in that decision. In the end, it's still more Final Fantasy VII, and it appeals to more or less the same people. So, the question posed is likely "is Sephiroth's caliber big enough to give us as good or better interest in this DLC content?" After Hero was added, that answer clearly became "yes". So...

Is Chun-Li's caliber big enough to garner as good or better interest in a Fighter Pack as say, a character from the Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, or Devil May Cry series?

Resident Evil is already out by virtue of being a Spirit Event.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Resident Evil is already out by virtue of being a Spirit Event.

Aaaand you missed the point entirely.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So... When do y'all think we'll reach the point where we'll know either when Fighter's Pass 2 is the end or they're making a Fighter's Pass 3? I'm thinking FP10 is going to be when we'll hear that surprise bonus DLC announcement since that was the case during Terry's announcement in Fighter's Pass 1 as he was the second to last. If not then, than I think Fighter's Pass 2 is it.

I'm honestly not counting on a Pass 3. Not even post-Pass 2 individual DLC.

 

[SNEKeater]

Random info but for anyone who might be interested in Ys or Falcom due to all the talk about them in the recent months, they just released a brief demo of Ys IX, which'll arrive in February. Though for now the demo it's only on PS4. If anyone's interested in the series or playing a fun action-RPG, I suggest trying it.

The demo ends after playing 10 minutes (an awkward decision if you ask me) but you can replay the demo as many times as you want.

Not that it's likely, but what are the chances that they might put a 2nd SNK rep in the game? Mai can't appear in the game in any form because of being too naughty for good bois and gurls and the rest of the notable Fatal Fury/King of Fighters/Metal Slug/ect are either Mii costumes or Spirits. So if they did go with another SNK rep, they would probably have to go with someone more obscure which I don't see happening.

I think it would be either Kyo despite of how much Sakurai loves Iori, or a Metal Slug rep.

Not like it's gonna happen, at least in Ultimate, though.

People are latching onto Sakurais "who else but lloyd" statement like how geno fans latched onto Sakurais statment of wanting geno and I can only smell a fire burning

I thought the exact same and I was about to say it before but I ended not doing so. But yeah. Of course, we don't know what will happen, but while being acknowledged by Sakurai in some fashion is usually an accomplishment, as I always said with his words about Geno, we don't know if he still thinks the same.

And even if he still thinks the same, that didn't brought Geno. So I don't think Lloyd is an absolute lock for a Tales character. Some people might be confused because until 1-2 years? ago it was always Lloyd when it came down to Tales in Smash. The confusion is understandable, but people should also keep in mind that before Ultimate or Smash 4 DLC speculation was HEAVILY dominated by first party characters. And the third party characters always mentioned were either 1. strongly connected to Nintendo in some form and/or 2. big in terms of fan demand, which almost always was tied to the first point. This is Lloyd's case.

So of course, Lloyd dominated the discussion. For example, before Cloud got in I remember most of the talk about Final Fantasy, if it was even brough up, it was usually about some of the series creatures (Chocobos, Moogles, Black Mages, etc) or at best, some of the protags from the FF entries released on SNES (usually Terra).

Now we're at a different point in speculation, though. Which doesn't necessarily means Lloyd would be skipped if they added a Tales character to Smash. It's just that since Ultimate released the talk for certain series or characters not really attached to Nintendo in the people's mind started to gain presence thanks to certain inclusions.
And basically this shift in speculation has made some people aware of "hey... maybe it could be Yuri instead of Lloyd?". Like, Lloyd is older than Yuri, but it's not like Yuri and his game came out last year. His game was released 12 years ago (Before the first Bayonetta was released, for example),

As I always said about this subject, in my eyes this is a 50-50 thing. It could go either way. Some could say it's basically a "Smash fanbase vs. Tales fanbase" situation.

Pyramid Head would be a really cool, unexpected character. But I’m pretty limited when it comes to Silent Hill lore; what areas from that series could work as stages?

It would clearly be Silent Hill itself, which is a town that usually plays a big part in the plot of each game.

 

[RileyXY1]

I'm honestly not counting on a Pass 3. Not even post-Pass 2 individual DLC.

Yeah. I think that Sakurai will probably be done with DLC after FP2.

 

[Cosmic77]

Monster Hunter is really the only Capcom franchise I feel confident in, and I'm not just saying that because of the Mii costumes.

Nintendo has collaborated with this series so many times in the past that I feel like a character is inevitable at some point in Smash's lifetime. Two amiibo waves, Animal Crossing crossover, special presentations that other games don't get, MH content already being in Smash: consider it to be a similar case as Dragon Quest in the sense that both have a lot of history with Nintendo but get most of their popularity from Japan.

 

[SharkLord]

Is there any character you aren't "not so sure about getting in"?

I remember a celebration after Riley stated they thought Adol was in a good spot

 

[Perkilator]

As far as Namco reps go; I think Dark Souls is one of those series that makes sense if any other likely series are out of the running for one reason or another.

 

[ahemtoday]

You know what DK stage I want?

Sunset Shore.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Looks like Sakurai really cherry picked this one.

pic.twitter.com/sSwazEsnD4

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) January 5, 2021

 

[Commander_Alph]

Looks like Sakurai really cherry picked this one.

pic.twitter.com/sSwazEsnD4

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) January 5, 2021

'd

(yes, I know that isn't the cherry pokemon)

 

[spicynun]

.hack in smash would be amazing. I have the first three parts of the original ps2 series, not GU (part 4 is so expensive now). I would be happy with any .hack representation since I highly doubt they would make it to fighter.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

SF2 tracks are all over the franchise in future games though. Literally all of these tracks are remixed in SF4 games, for example.

Somewhat offtopic but I think it's funny that lots of people say Street Fighter is perfectly represented as is and doesn't need anything else yet I see people say that Sonic's woefully underrepped despite Sonic having more ATs, stages and significantly more variety in songs as Street Fighter's got 2 to 3 versions of the same themes over and over. I've seen this mentality pop up a lot since Chun Li got speculated a lot due to that rumour and how Eggman became a frontrunner for like 2 weeks because of Sephiroth. I've seen someone else say what I'm saying here a while ago but I don't remember who and I recently chatted with my irl friends and the topic came up with the same 'Street Fighter is good as is, Sonic is poorly done' arguments

 

[SharkLord]

Somewhat offtopic but I think it's funny that lots of people say Street Fighter is perfectly represented as is and doesn't need anything else yet I see people say that Sonic's woefully underrepped despite Sonic having more ATs, stages and significantly more variety in songs as Street Fighter's got 2 to 3 versions of the same themes over and over. I've seen this mentality pop up a lot since Chun Li got speculated a lot due to that rumour and how Eggman became a frontrunner for like 2 weeks because of Sephiroth. I've seen someone else say what I'm saying here a while ago but I don't remember who and I recently chatted with my irl friends and the topic came up with the same 'Street Fighter is good as is, Sonic is poorly done' arguments

I think it comes from the tracklist, which is more obvious because it clearly puts the number up on display. Street Fighter has the big numbers and Sonic has comparatively smaller numbers, so it gives off the illusion that Street Fighter is better represented.

At least, that's my theory on why. I don't speak for everyone here so I could be wrong.

 

[ahemtoday]

Look, as long as I can feeeeeel life movin' through my mind, I'll never call the Sonic music rep bad.

That said, Sonic has enough bangers that you could give it the SNK treatment and still not get all the must-haves.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

The big video game music were missing here is Magical Sound Shower from Outrun and the Space Harrier theme imo

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Look, as long as I can feeeeeel life movin' through my mind, I'll never call the Sonic music rep bad.

That said, Sonic has enough bangers that you could give it the SNK treatment and still not get all the must-haves.

Honestly that applies to damn near every franchise, the more we get, the more we notice what isn't there, which also applies to the actual game itself. CastleVania got so much yet I'm thinking where the hell Order of the Demon and **** is, Mega Man got so much yet I think "Where's Cannonball?", etc