Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...Mega Man got so much yet I think "Where's Cannonball?", etc

Well we got Snake Man's theme, which is objectively the best one, so I'd say Mega Man's good.

 

[ahemtoday]

Do we have Tomahawk Man's theme? That one's always been my favorite.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Do we have Tomahawk Man's theme? That one's always been my favorite.

No. I would have remembered that...

Come to think of it, I think Mega Man 6 was left out entirely.

Looking it up, it wasn't, but it didn't get any remixes. It's just a part of the retro medley.

 

[DevaAshera]

The real disappointment, music-wise, is that ALL of the Wario series music comes from WarioWare..even the Wario Land: Shake It! track is just a remix of Wario's Victory Theme from Super Smash Bros. Brawl (and the whole series, but Brawl released prior to Shake It!) as confirmed by Shake It!'s composer..which is annoying considering how much good music the Wario Land series and Wario World has..I mean, even one of the most obvious songs for the Wario series, this song from Wario World, that even made it into Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix, is missing from the Super Smash Bros. series!

The fact that neither of Wario's stages represents the Wario Land / Wario World side of his series has also always been a sore spot for me considering how much I ADORE the Wario Land games along with Wario World..

Well we got Snake Man's theme, which is objectively the best one, so I'd say Mega Man's good.

I would, but I'm a little disappointed that its only Mega Man Zero track is a remix of Zero's Theme from Mega Man X1..

 

[Icedragonadam]

I'm disapointed there seems to be some 11 music tracks max only rule for the Fighter's Pass characters(mainly from new franchises) except for SNK with 50.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm disapointed there seems to be some 11 music tracks max only rule for the Fighter's Pass characters(mainly from new franchises) except for SNK with 50.

I don't think Sakurai's enforcing a hard limit, it's just the amount of tracks they can get easily.

Mega Man got so much yet I think "Where's Cannonball?", etc

Shall I shill why I think they could make a challenger pack out of X or Zero again?

 

[N3ON]

That's not true at all. Simon was one of the more popular third party requests during Smash 4 and maybe Brawl. The ballot helped getting him to Ultimate.

[Castlevania] was highly requested in the Smash Ballot, and when it came time to add new content Sakurai says his choices were limited.

(see next) pic.twitter.com/T2wx5aGnLf

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) December 17, 2018

It wouldn't be accurate to say that no one was talking about Simon before Vergeben.

But there's also been some revision as to how much people had talked about him, or how popular a candidate he was.

He was never a staple of conversation as the most popular characters generally are. He was more an intermittent topic, somewhat closer to the dark horses. I know Sakurai has stated his inclusion was due to the ballot, and I don't doubt that, but I also think the following "plus there were limited options" did some of the lifting as well.

I think popularity got him part of the way, but I think the popularity has been overstated since his inclusion. I reckon Konami being cooperative/not giving a **** about their characters/possibly charging less (whereas, also, many third-parties seem to prefer being DLC) was also salient in how we ended up with all that Castlevania content as we did.

If you went back to read through old conversations and polls, on this site or any other, I think you'd be surprised as to how inconsistently he featured compared to the other ballot choices. Even Bayonetta.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It wouldn't be accurate to say that no one was talking about Simon before Vergeben.

But there's also been some revision as to how much people had talked about him, or how popular a candidate he was.

He was never a staple of conversation as the most popular characters generally are. He was more an intermittent topic, somewhat closer to the dark horses. I know Sakurai has stated his inclusion was due to the ballot, and I don't doubt that, but I also think the following "plus there were limited options" did some of the lifting as well.

I think popularity got him part of the way, but I think the popularity has been overstated since his inclusion. I reckon Konami being cooperative/not giving a **** about their characters/possibly charging less (whereas, also, many third-parties seem to prefer being DLC) was also salient in how we ended up with all that Castlevania content as we did.

If you went back to read through old conversations and polls, on this site or any other, I think you'd be surprised as to how inconsistently he featured compared to the other ballot choices. Even Bayonetta.

Tbf the state of CastleVania wasn't really good at that time and Snake was cut while Konami was at their lowest in terms of PR, so that'd explain why he seemed much more niche. Hell, from what I heard, the negative reactions to Snake in Brawl had 2 groups, Nintendo purists and people who wanted Simon in Smash

 

[N3ON]

Tbf the state of CastleVania wasn't really good at that time and Snake was cut while Konami was at their lowest in terms of PR, so that'd explain why he seemed much more niche. Hell, from what I heard, the negative reactions to Snake in Brawl had 2 groups, Nintendo purists and people who wanted Simon in Smash

That's true, and it's a very very rare character who can prosper demand-wise despite their series having one foot in the grave like. I will say that Simon's popularity was sort of in line with a character that might have been wanted, but wasn't exactly expected. So, him and other Castlevania characters doing well on the ballot, when people really swung for the fences, doesn't surprise me, if not being a bit exaggerated as of late.

As to the second part, I'm not really sure about that. Snake aside, the most popular Konami character during the Brawl era was without a doubt Bomberman, so were the negativity to be split, I'd imagine it'd have to be four ways. The purists, the Bomberman camp, the Simon camp, and the people who wanted more third-parties, but thought Snake didn't fit a Nintendo crossover. And I think the first and last of those groups were actually the largest.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Well we got Snake Man's theme, which is objectively the best one, so I'd say Mega Man's good.

Did you...did you just disrespect Wily Fortress 1?

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

"Nintendo is acquiring developer Next Level Games inc"

From the developers of the Super Mario Strikers series, Luigi's Mansion series and Punch Out (Wii)

Nintendo is Purchasing Luigi's Mansion 3 Developer Next Level Games
Nintendo is adding another studio to their first-party lineup with long-time developing Canadian partner Next Level Games.
www.google.com

While they have already been working exclusively with Nintendo since 2013, It's really great to see the studio get promoted from 2nd party to an official 1st party subsidiary and grow and expand under Nintendo.

Always been a big fan of their work with both Mario Strikers and Luigi's Mansion, I would love to see them make a 3rd Mario Strikers game seeing how they already wrapped up Luigi's Mansion 3 back in October 2019. I would also love to see them tackle another major Nintendo franchise, May I suggest Donkey Kong?

Fun Fact: Right after Retro Studios, Next Level Games is now Nintendo's 2nd owned 1st party western studio.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

"Nintendo is acquiring developer Next Level Games inc"

From the developers of the Super Mario Strikers, Luigi's Mansion series.

Nintendo is Purchasing Luigi's Mansion 3 Developer Next Level Games

Nintendo is adding another studio to their first-party lineup with long-time developing Canadian partner Next Level Games.

www.google.com

While they have already been working exclusively with Nintendo since 2013, It's really great to see the studio get promoted from 2nd party to an official 1st party subsidiary and grow and expand under Nintendo.

Always been a big fan of their work with both Mario Strikers and Luigi's Mansion, I would love to see them make a 3rd Mario Strikers game seeing how they already wrapped up Luigi's Mansion 3 back in October 2019, I would love to see them tackle another major Nintendo franchise, May I suggest Donkey Kong?

Fun Fact: Right after Retro Studios, Next Level Games is now Nintendo's 2nd owned 1st party western studio.

I wish they’d hurry up and save AlphaDream and buy it...

 

[Cosmic77]

I knew it was only a matter of time until Next Level Games would be bought. LM3 did so phenomenally well that it was ridiculous to think Nintendo wouldn't see the studio as a valuable asset.

Not sure if this means they'll strictly become the "Luigi's Mansion studio", but hey, at least this is a safe sign that the franchise will continue (not that anyone was really worried to begin with).

 

[RouffWestie]

Well we got Gravity Man's theme, which is objectively the best one, so I'd say Mega Man's good.

I fixed that typo for you.

 

[PSIGuy]

put in a Next Level Games rep

put in.... ANGRY SOCCER MARIO

or another punch out rep would be cool too

 

[Cutie Gwen]

NLG's purchase doesn't really mean anything so far here's hoping they actually get to make that Metroid game they wanted to make before being told to work on Luigi's Mansion 2, they should get a shot at a Metroid game that wasn't doomed to fail to begin with

 

[Dinoman96]

put in a Next Level Games rep

put in.... ANGRY SOCCER MARIO

or another punch out rep would be cool too

Funny you mention that...

FUN FACT: Next-Level Games' Mario Strikers series is one of the major reasons Nintendo clamped down hard on portrayals of Mario.

Which is honestly pretty funny.

— Imran Khan (@imranzomg) January 5, 2021

The Wahoominati strikes again.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Somewhat offtopic but I think it's funny that lots of people say Street Fighter is perfectly represented as is and doesn't need anything else yet I see people say that Sonic's woefully underrepped despite Sonic having more ATs, stages and significantly more variety in songs as Street Fighter's got 2 to 3 versions of the same themes over and over. I've seen this mentality pop up a lot since Chun Li got speculated a lot due to that rumour and how Eggman became a frontrunner for like 2 weeks because of Sephiroth. I've seen someone else say what I'm saying here a while ago but I don't remember who and I recently chatted with my irl friends and the topic came up with the same 'Street Fighter is good as is, Sonic is poorly done' arguments

I do think Street Fighter could be represented better, yes, but what we got isn't what I'd call "underrepresented" either.

The only real problem is a lack of variety in the tracks, having two if not three versions of the same tracks. But aside from that, what we got isn't bad.

I'm disapointed there seems to be some 11 music tracks max only rule for the Fighter's Pass characters(mainly from new franchises) except for SNK with 50.

Min Min came with 18

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I do think Street Fighter could be represented better, yes, but what we got isn't what I'd call "underrepresented" either.

The only real problem is a lack of variety in the tracks, having two if not three versions of the same tracks. But aside from that, what we got isn't bad.


Min Min came with 18

My point had nothing to do with my stances on the franchises but how one is seen as 'just fine and does not need more' whereas the one with more content is typically seen as 'poorly repped' by the same people. It's just funny

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

My point had nothing to do with my stances on the franchises but how one is seen as 'just fine and does not need more' whereas the one with more content is typically seen as 'poorly repped' by the same people. It's just funny

Being fair, the Sonic franchise has also had more games if you don't count Capcom's habit of releasing enhanced versions of older SF games.

Though I agree it's still funny to see that hypocrisy.

 

[N3ON]

I'm disapointed there seems to be some 11 music tracks max only rule for the Fighter's Pass characters(mainly from new franchises) except for SNK with 50.

Why do people keep trying to make rules

"Nintendo is acquiring developer Next Level Games inc"

From the developers of the Super Mario Strikers series, Luigi's Mansion series and Punch Out (Wii)

Nintendo is Purchasing Luigi's Mansion 3 Developer Next Level Games
Nintendo is adding another studio to their first-party lineup with long-time developing Canadian partner Next Level Games.
www.google.com

While they have already been working exclusively with Nintendo since 2013, It's really great to see the studio get promoted from 2nd party to an official 1st party subsidiary and grow and expand under Nintendo.

Always been a big fan of their work with both Mario Strikers and Luigi's Mansion, I would love to see them make a 3rd Mario Strikers game seeing how they already wrapped up Luigi's Mansion 3 back in October 2019. I would also love to see them tackle another major Nintendo franchise, May I suggest Donkey Kong?

Fun Fact: Right after Retro Studios, Next Level Games is now Nintendo's 2nd owned 1st party western studio.

I'm happy for my Vancouver homies, but this doesn't really change that much from a non-business perspective, I don't think. Given the circumstances of the acquisition, I don't think the buyout heralds more to come from Nintendo.

I guess the main hope is that NLG will be able to take a page from Monolith and steadily expand under Nintendo, allowing them to tackle additional projects, being built up into more of a dextrous, powerhouse developer.

Though technically NST is the first 1st party western studio, Retro is the second, and NLG is the third. But after Project HAMMER NST has seemingly been given the eternal graveyard shift, sadly.

I knew it was only a matter of time until Next Level Games would be bought. LM3 did so phenomenally well that it was ridiculous to think Nintendo wouldn't see the studio as a valuable asset.

Not sure if this means they'll strictly become the "Luigi's Mansion studio", but hey, at least this is a safe sign that the franchise will continue (not that anyone was really worried to begin with).

I don't think the default expectation should ever be that a studio will get picked up by Nintendo. I mean Intelligent Systems, HAL and Game Freak have worked with Nintendo for over thirty years and they're still not under the umbrella, they're just development partners.

NLG were only bought because they were looking for a buyer and Nintendo didn't want to lose them. Maybe they didn't want a repeat of Rare. Either way, the impetus came from NLG. I'm still not expecting any more acquisitions out of Nintendo any time soon; they almost all stem from atypical situations anyway.

Funny you mention that...

FUN FACT: Next-Level Games' Mario Strikers series is one of the major reasons Nintendo clamped down hard on portrayals of Mario.

Which is honestly pretty funny.

— Imran Khan (@imranzomg) January 5, 2021

The Wahoominati strikes again.

One too many pelvic thrusts from Waluigi would do that to anyone.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Why do people keep trying to make rules

Because people think they know everything about how a single man works without realizing there are entire companies involved.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

Funny you mention that...

FUN FACT: Next-Level Games' Mario Strikers series is one of the major reasons Nintendo clamped down hard on portrayals of Mario.

Which is honestly pretty funny.

— Imran Khan (@imranzomg) January 5, 2021

The Wahoominati strikes again.

Sucks to hear that, But not too surprising, Probably explains why we haven't gotten a 3rd game in the series since 2007. It's a shame because "Strikers" really gave the Mario cast a ton of attitude and personality.

Not to mention the intro to Mario Strikers Charged is probably the most badass of any Mario game ever.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Somewhat offtopic but I think it's funny that lots of people say Street Fighter is perfectly represented as is and doesn't need anything else yet I see people say that Sonic's woefully underrepped despite Sonic having more ATs, stages and significantly more variety in songs as Street Fighter's got 2 to 3 versions of the same themes over and over. I've seen this mentality pop up a lot since Chun Li got speculated a lot due to that rumour and how Eggman became a frontrunner for like 2 weeks because of Sephiroth. I've seen someone else say what I'm saying here a while ago but I don't remember who and I recently chatted with my irl friends and the topic came up with the same 'Street Fighter is good as is, Sonic is poorly done' arguments

People just put more weight into playable characters than anything else, and rightfully so. While Sonic is known for its great music, above all it's its wide cast of characters that makes the series appealing to a lot of its fans, so with so many good options to pick from, it's only natural the series' fans would like for more of them to be playable in Smash. Sonic has also been here since Brawl, and is the 3rd party series which has had the most appearances in Smash bar none, so not only is it natural that it has more additional content than most other 3rd party series, but it's also been part of Smash long enough that expanding its presence on the roster feels a bit overdue, especially now that we have seen another third party series get a second newcomer.

Another factor might simply be that Capcom still have so many huge series to pick from that people just prefer getting a character from a series that isn't in Smash over a third Street Fighter character. Chun Li is in direct competition with popular requests like Dante, Monster Hunter and Phoenix Wright, so there are quite a few people in the community who would prefer to not see her get in. Meanwhile SEGA don't really have any other highly requested characters, so there aren't many that have a strong reason to oppose a second Sonic rep. Granted the exact same thing I said about Chun Li could also be said about Sephiroth vs other Square reps, and he's proven to be an incredibly popular addition nonetheless. I think Chun Li would likely get a great reception from the wider community too, but when it comes to the speculation community I'm not too surprised that many are lukewarm to the idea, it might have been a similar scenario with Sephiroth had his name been taken even a little bit seriously before his reveal.

With all that said, I like Street Fighter a lot more than Sonic, so you won't hear me complain if the rumors are true. I would personally prefer Guile or M. Bison, but putting my own bias aside it's pretty obvious that it kinda has to be Chun Li that's next in line, I think many of us were already surprised that she wasn't the Street Fighter AT we got.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I think many of us were already surprised that she wasn't the Street Fighter AT we got

Still makes sense that it's Guile, since his playstyle and two specials can be perfectly replicated with the limited moves and behavior of an AT.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Still makes sense that it's Guile, since his playstyle and two specials can be perfectly replicated with the limited moves and behavior of an AT.

Yeah, that's pretty much the conclusion I ended on as well, functionally he makes for a more unique AT, and his playstyle is both very recognizable as well as easy to recreate. I was pretty happy to see him since he's my main in any Street Fighter game I've played, but I was still surprised by it since Chun Li is pretty much the de facto third main character of the series.

 

[N3ON]

Not like Chun Li showing up and doing the Kikoken, Lightning Kick and Spinning Bird Kick (CERO willing) wouldn't have made sense either for an AT.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think Nakoruru or Metal Slug are more likely to be next.

I cannot remember. It's only happened a handful of times in all of DLC.

 

[Eldrake]

Sucks to hear that, But not too surprising, Probably explains why we haven't gotten a 3rd game in the series since 2007. It's a shame because "Strikers" really gave the Mario cast a ton of attitude and personality.

Not to mention the intro to Mario Strikers Charged is probably the most badass of any Mario game ever.

Oh yeah, Kremlings was in that game. Now that I think about it, K. Rool would have fit in Mario Strikers Charged perfectly as a player character.

 

[Giga Man]

Funny you mention that...

FUN FACT: Next-Level Games' Mario Strikers series is one of the major reasons Nintendo clamped down hard on portrayals of Mario.

Which is honestly pretty funny.

— Imran Khan (@imranzomg) January 5, 2021

The Wahoominati strikes again.

Miyamoto wanted Mario to be cool, but not THAT cool.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Funny you mention that...

FUN FACT: Next-Level Games' Mario Strikers series is one of the major reasons Nintendo clamped down hard on portrayals of Mario.

Which is honestly pretty funny.

— Imran Khan (@imranzomg) January 5, 2021

The Wahoominati strikes again.

So let me get this straight

Mario can:

• Get his skull crushed by Ridley
• GET VAPORIZED BY GALEEM
• and narrowly avoid Sephiroth’s sword by his overalls

But he can’t be rightfully A N G E R Y?

this is joke

 

[I.D.]

It's a good thing that Nintendo is expanding regardless of the actual reasons behind it. Many people thought the Switch would have the output of a home console and handheld combined and that turned out to be obviously untrue since they weren't prepared for the demands of full time HD development.

 

[Sophitia]

So let me get this straight

Mario can:

• Get his skull crushed by Ridley
• GET VAPORIZED BY GALEEM
• and narrowly avoid Sephiroth’s sword by his overalls

But he can’t be rightfully A N G E R Y?

this is joke

Smash Mario is pretty much angry Mario.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So let me get this straight

Mario can:

• Get his skull crushed by Ridley
• GET VAPORIZED BY GALEEM
• and narrowly avoid Sephiroth’s sword by his overalls

But he can’t be rightfully A N G E R Y?

this is joke

The team in general is for Super Mario games.

Smash is not a Super Mario game. It follows different rules overall. Miyamoto actually allowing Mario to be portrayed like that is still surprising, as he's a very stingy person about portrayals, but the team that was created is unrelated to Smash either way.

 

[Dinoman96]

So let me get this straight

Mario can:

• Get his skull crushed by Ridley
• GET VAPORIZED BY GALEEM
• and narrowly avoid Sephiroth’s sword by his overalls

But he can’t be rightfully A N G E R Y?

this is joke

I know you're joking, but it's pretty obvious that Nintendo trusts Sakurai so much that they basically let him do whatever the hell with their franchises and characters, and give him far more freedom than they would with any other outside developer.

Any other contractor, Nintendo would insist on them using the proper Kenny James and Takashi Nagasako voice clips for Bowser and DK respectively. But because it's Sakurai, Smash can get away with using generic animal/monster growls for them. Also this thing still continues to exist

 

[N3ON]

Sakurai pays off the execs with FE characters so they don't interfere with his business.

But fr though, getting third-parties from across the board to play nice and brokering collaborations with your competitors is impressive, that can't be overstated, but for Sakurai to be able to get away with having Death cleave Luigi's soul from his body and even intimate Mario getting impaled by Sephiroth, he must have an immense degree of clout and trust from Nintendo that he can basically stare down the Wahoominati and win.

Which is especially resonant considering the guy who always went to bat for him, Iwata, is no longer around. He just has that prestige.

And no, Smash isn't a Mario game, but the oversight exists to enforce the permitted depiction of the cast. If they didn't extend their reach to every appearance, it would defeat the point of them existing at all. Remember how picky the people behind Wreck-It Ralph said Nintendo were about Bowser?

 

[I.D.]

I guess the main hope is that NLG will be able to take a page from Monolith and steadily expand under Nintendo, allowing them to tackle additional projects, being built up into more of a dextrous, powerhouse developer.

"Completion of the Acquisition will serve
to secure the availability of NLG development resources for Nintendo, including development
expertise, as well as facilitate an anticipated improvement in development speed and quality by
enabling closer communication and exchange of staff with the Nintendo development team"

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2021/210105e.pdf

Even then you just have to look at how Monolith and Retro have been increasing their numbers. It's pretty safe to say the intention is to scale them up to meet the increasing demands of game development.

 

[Dinoman96]

I still sometimes think about how Sakurai essentially created an entirely new design for Wolf (outside of his head being based on Zero), compared to how Starlink (which came out around the same time) just used his Zero design wholesale.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Our first event/board/tourney of this year!

Will it be a deconfirmation or not!? We'll see tonight!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This is a good deal for NLG. That's essentially job security. This is also Nintendo's first purchase since Monolith right?