Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[kaithehedgefox]

Tut tut tut. I have no idea who you are but I remember that you said you changed your ways about something and I have to say, you haven't changed at all.

I have changed my opinions.

 

[subterrestrial]

Inb4 kazuya has a comeback mechanic + tekken rage + smash rage

 

[Ivander]

Since everybody's doing it, might as well:
S:(yeah, Hero's up here mainly because of Eight).
A:
B:
C:(He's cool and still a fun addition and would be a B like the other ones I'm okay with, but he's mostly down here because I know heck about him and his game series besides Persona 3 which I played for a bit).

I just want to be clear. I don't hate any of the characters, not even Joker. As a big crossover enthusiast, I really love seeing alot of series, even series I don't really know about, coming together. It was legitimately one of the coolest things about Smash 64 and Marvel vs Capcom that I loved was seeing not just some of my favorite characters being playable, but getting to learn about all these series I had never seen before(and huge kudos to Sakurai for talking about the games the characters come from with his Presents series). Although, admittingly, I have a bigger interest or feel more hyped with older series and older games then I do newer games or series, aside from the ones I really enjoyed.

The reason some characters are just low is mostly because either:

1. They came at a time from after I lost some interest in the series, like Isabelle from Animal Crossing, as I enjoyed the Gamecube and DS Animal Crossings, but lost interest after City Folk and I never got to "experience" Isabelle.
2. Or they came from a series that I have tried, but lost interest and as such, I don't really know much in general, like Joker. I have tried Persona with Persona 3 and while the setting was really cool, the gameplay was really not doing it for me and I lost interest and didn't have any interest for Persona 4 and 5.

Like Joker is still a very cool looking character and whatnot. I just didn't have any interest with Persona, so I didn't really have alot of hype. And it won't be the first or last time.
Like Jonesy is still that character where, honestly, I'm still iffy on, since I really don't like Fortnite's artstyle and with that, Jonesy's design. I've had interest in the Battle Royale genre, but I wasn't interested in Fortnite, PUBG or any game that copied them, and so far, aside from Fall Guys and Super Mario Bros. 35, I haven't found any BR game that has actually interested me.

 

[Inferno7]

Terry went from getting a ton of flak to being a fan favorite after the Sakurai Presents. It will happen to Kazuya too. Plenty of people will grumble that a fighting game character got in not because a fighting game character got in, but because a fighting game character got in as CP 10. That means there is only one last character we know, and it could have been your character. At the end of the day, most of the flak will fade by the first week of July and Kazuya will become likely as beloved as Terry did.

Then everyone will get mad at CP11 no matter who it is, even if it is Crash or someone else hype because it means your most wanted is not going to get in ultimate.

Yeah I feel the same too, flashy and creative movesets tend to age like wine in Smash. Captain Falcon, someone that was literal-who tier in recognizability became a huge Smash icon over time due to his fun playstyle and personality.

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe it was just the way the trailer looked, but I think Kazuya’s standout point will be as a combo fiend. Every one of his specials and attacks can probably be seamlessly strung together so in a one on one fight, he’ll be a demon (pun intended).

My guess is that recovery and speed will be his weakness. I’m thinking like Little Mac recovery and the second or third slowest character on the roster.

 

[Technomage]

The one and only PapaGenos has uploaded a video celebrating Kaz's inclusion in Smash Bros. by playing Tekken 7, for Smash fans who are interested:

 

[GilTheGreat19]

https://twitter.com/831cesco/status/1407055723805265920?s=20

Thoughts, y'all?
I could see it.

 

[Technomage]

Maybe it was just the way the trailer looked, but I think Kazuya’s standout point will be as a combo fiend. Every one of his specials and attacks can probably be seamlessly strung together so in a one on one fight, he’ll be a demon (pun intended).

My guess is that recovery and speed will be his weakness. I’m thinking like Little Mac recovery and the second or third slowest character on the roster.

Hopefully it won't mean that Kaz'd be as bad as or worse than Mac, the worst character in the game.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

People complained about Steve for being too awkward, now imagine that but 100 times worse, featuring a bird without any limbs at all and from an old and kinda faddy mobile game without any ties to NIntendo whatsoever (if they don't even put Dragalia Lost in why should they this?).

Well...most complaints I've seen about Steve are about his art direction (Angry Birds's art style is much easier to incorporate into Super Smash Bros. so this wouldn't be an issue) and his complicated moveset, which was always going to be a thing because there are so many beats to hit when making a Minecraft moveset.

I don't think Angry Birds would fall into either pitfall so long as you could make a functioning set of normals for the character. Granted that would be a challenge, but I think it could be overcome with some creative liberties.

Also, if one considers "being on a Nintendo console" to be a tie to the company, then they do have that at least. They're also fairly important to the history of mobile games as one of the first mobile series to take off. As for having it instead of Dragalia Lost well...One of these games isn't banned in certain reigons for the typical predatory business practices that mobile games have going on nowadays. Even so I'd say they'd both be welcome additions.

Says a lot that PvZ has Crazy Dave, a side character (who also doesn't do anything), as their top pick.

Isn't he the guy that does the planting in the first place? I've never played Plants vs. Zombies so I wouldn't really know.

 

[subterrestrial]

hope kazuya’s above average weight ngl like even heavier than banjo

 

[Ivander]

https://twitter.com/831cesco/status/1407055723805265920?s=20

Thoughts, y'all?
I could see it.

I mean, wasn't the Advance Wars assist trophy already gone in Smash Wii U/3DS, like the Ray MKIII Assist Trophy?

 

[TCT~Phantom]

On the topic of comeback mechanics, pretty much every Fighter's Pass character (excluding ) has some sort of gimmick to have them stand out from the rest of the roster. Y'know when the roster is almost 70 numbered fighters, you'll need the DLC characters to stand out in some way. However, it seems that more than a few times the developers seem to pick a character, look at them, and make them unique by adding in a comeback mechanic

Unique DLC Mechanics:

• Comeback Mechanic: and maybe
  
• Resource Meters:
• A Special Move with limited uses:
• ARMS mechanic (both attack buttons attack with a different arm):
• Transformation:

You can see that there's a little disparity here. Personally, I don't have an issue with comeback mechanics as long as they're balanced and don't feel unfair on the receiving end (Joker pushes this boundary a little bit. Arsene still feels a little too strong).

I personally think Arsene is not broken, but very poorly designed in terms of how it works. Competent Jokers can get 2 Arsenes a stock which makes their damage output even crazier, while bad Jokers can use it as a crutch because they are afraid of edgeguarding or learning drag downs. Arsene also encourages the opponent to not interact with Joker out of fear of his buttons.

Yeah I feel the same too, flashy and creative movesets tend to age like wine in Smash. Captain Falcon, someone that was literal-who tier in recognizability became a huge Smash icon over time due to his fun playstyle and personality.

I mean, so long as a character is fun and can lead to hype moments, they tend to get some love. Look at Sephiroth. Yeah, he's another swordsman, but he is so hype and has so many cool moves people love him. Octaslash, Hell's Gate, Shield Breaks, so much cool stuff to do.

https://twitter.com/831cesco/status/1407055723805265920?s=20

Thoughts, y'all?
I could see it.

I mean, AW makes more sense to shill for a revival than Famicom Detective. It is a proven hitmaker, AW did great on the GBA and DS, and you could easily toss together a unique moveset. That being said, the issue is when did AW 1+2 Remake start production. If it was in production in time to be considered for a shill rep, which given COVID I would bet on, I think it would make enough sense. Not particularly something I would bet on, but far from impossible.

 

[Deleted member]

https://twitter.com/831cesco/status/1407055723805265920?s=20

Thoughts, y'all?
I could see it.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a Spirit Board showed up for Advance Wars. Or are you referring to the tweet after it about mii costumes? In that case, I’m thinking Kuma, Mokujin, maybe King, and two or three more unrelated ones. Not feeling the Tales rep….don’t know, for some reason I don’t have faith in it happening.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I’ve honestly got no clue whats going on with Kazuya. His trailer implies a comeback mechanic, a separate transformation mechanic, and massive Combos. How these all intersect and work together is going to be very, very interesting.

Kazuyas Presentation is quickly becoming the one I anticipate the most.

 

[Perkilator]

The one and only PapaGenos has uploaded a video celebrating Kaz's inclusion in Smash Bros. by playing Tekken 7, for Smash fans who are interested:

I'm surprise Maximilian Dood hasn't started a Kazuya legacy yet (unless I'm out of the loop or something)

 

[Guynamednelson]

I mean, wasn't the Advance Wars assist trophy already gone in Smash Wii U/3DS, like the Ray MKIII Assist Trophy?

It was in Smash 4 too.

 

[SharkLord]

Isn't he the guy that does the planting in the first place? I've never played Plants vs. Zombies so I wouldn't really know.

He doesn't do the planting directly, but he teaches you how to plant, gives guidance throughout the game, and sells stuff to you. In the sequel, he gets story importance by virtue of traveling through time to... Eat a really good taco a second time... Yeah...

In the Garden Warfare games, he also acts as the leader of the plants, being put in opposition to Zomboss, the leader of the zombies. Basically, he's the most prominent heroic character, since the player character is literally just you and doesn't have any character or even a physical appearance, beyond getting their brains eaten in a game over.

 

[Inferno7]

Well...most complaints I've seen about Steve are about his art direction (Angry Birds's art style is much easier to incorporate into Super Smash Bros. so this wouldn't be an issue) and his complicated moveset, which was always going to be a thing because there are so many beats to hit when making a Minecraft moveset.

I don't think Angry Birds would fall into either pitfall so long as you could make a functioning set of normals for the character. Granted that would be a challenge, but I think it could be overcome with some creative liberties.

Also, if one considers "being on a Nintendo console" to be a tie to the company, then they do have that at least. They're also fairly important to the history of mobile games as one of the first mobile series to take off. As for having it instead of Dragalia Lost well...One of these games isn't banned in certain reigons for the typical predatory business practices that mobile games have going on nowadays. Even so I'd say they'd both be welcome additions.


Isn't he the guy that does the planting in the first place? I've never played Plants vs. Zombies so I wouldn't really know.

iirc Dave is the one who sells/gives you the plants and helps you out during the mayhem, but he apparently gets eaten at the end, so in no possible way he's the player himself. He's like the textbook definition of a NPC (outside of RPGs).

A limbless character would certainly look awkward, all he could possibly do would be charging at you and using his beak which isn't interesting in the slightest tbh. I've played Angry Birds and there's barebones material to go with when it comes to making a moveset. With Minecraft on the other hand you could make at least like 10 different movesets and every single one of them would fit.

Angry Birds is also certainly way past its prime because people aren't interested in the brand anymore (i.e. it's faddy), and there was some big trouble regarding this:

The Angry Birds brand is in big trouble

The mobile games maker Rovio reported its operating profit fell 73% last year.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Or are you referring to the tweet after it about mii costumes?

Yes I am.

 

[subterrestrial]

crazy Dave would actually be kinda dope ngl

plant turrets and wall nut shields

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I'm a little sad that Jin Kazama isn't going to be playable and that he can't be an alternate costume because he has different moves compared to Kazuya.

That's it. That's the comment. No happy ending.

 

[SharkLord]

https://twitter.com/831cesco/status/1407055723805265920?s=20

Thoughts, y'all?
I could see it.

Hmm... I think there's a chance. It's sorta like FDC, right down to not being announced yet in a certain region (In this case, Japan). That being said, it's also cemented itself as a series, having started as Famicom Wars in Japan and really hitting it big as Advance Wars, and having consistent releases up until the Wii/DS era. If it were a new IP I'd have some doubts, being rather late and having limited reach for the time being, but AW seems like the one really consistent Nintendo series to not get a fighter yet. I'm willing to give it a shot.

 

[Technomage]

I'm a little sad that Jin Kazama isn't going to be playable and that he can't be an alternate costume because he has different moves compared to Kazuya.

That's it. That's the comment. No happy ending.

I don't know; I've seen a few people suggest Jin as a potential Kaz echo. On the other hand, I'm not sure if they're similar enough for that.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Crazy Dave talk? In Smashboards?

This is so based.

I'd love for a Tower Defense/Strategy character like Dave to get in.

Here are some great Crazy Dave movesets I've seen online.
I COULD make one myself, but nah lol

What If Crazy Dave Was In Smash? (Moveset Ideas: 46)

LIKE, COMMENT, & SUBSCRIBE! It helps a lot!And if you want to support the channel and get some perks for doing so,Click the link below:https://www.youtube.co...

www.youtube.com

 

[Knight Dude]

I think they're the people who are doing the Panzer Dragoon and House of the Dead remakes

Ah, so does that mean they're likely to handle smaller scale remakes? Seems like Nintendo's been doing a couple of those now, with Advance Wars and that Detective Club thing. Not to mention Link's Awakening and Metroid 2 having remakes a few years prior.

Suure, let's just ignore all the Wii U ports and the Xenoblade 1 remake...

That said, if a definitive edition of Brawl did happen, you think some of the Sm4sh fighters would make their appearance there?

Probably Mega Man and Pac-Man. For sure Mewtwo and Roy.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I’ve done a little research on Tekken in preparation for the release. Jim and Kazuya had similar moves in the earlier games but differentiated themselves drastically during the later games of the series. Its kinda like Ken and Ryu.

Jin would work as an Echo if the developers really wanted to include him.

If my hour of googling holds any merit, that is.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

In a retrospective for Brawl, Sakurai states that there was some consideration for a Definitive Version of Brawl for Wii, but Nintendo "isn't that type of company" #SmashBros #PushFacts pic.twitter.com/n7LkwGVpZ4

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) June 22, 2021

RIP Ultimate Deluxe

2008 Nintendo and 2021 Nintendo are very, very different beasts.

Modern Nintendo has basically worked so much of the skeletons of old work. Splatoon 2 and 3, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Mario Tennis Aces, the long line of Wii U ports, and heck even Smash Ultimate was heavily built off of the skeleton from 4. Sakurai himself said we likely wont get another smash in 10 years, so if we are taking the man at face value an Ultimate port to the next switch seems inevitable.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't know; I've seen a few people suggest Jin as a potential Kaz echo. On the other hand, I'm not sure if they're similar enough for that.

Ryu and Ken are more similar than Kazuya and Jin are.

 

[Perkilator]

Aaaanyways, what do you think Kazuya's alts might be? I made a thread about it (https://smashboards.com/threads/alternate-colors.513929/), but the ideas I listed were:

1. Gi (default)
2. Jin Kazama (black/orange gi)
3. Heihachi (grey/red gi)
4. Tekken 1 Devil Kazuya (purple/white gi)
5. G Corp Suit (default)
6. Tekken 2 Kazuya (purple suit)
7. TTT2 Kazuya (white suit)
8. Demitri (blue suit)

 

[Idon]

https://twitter.com/831cesco/status/1407055723805265920?s=20

Thoughts, y'all?
I could see it.

Don't put any stock in anything recent influencing how Nintendo chose characters.

Min Min, Steve, Sephiroth, P/M, and Kazuya have had little to nothing recent happening for them recently in the past 2 years Nintendo-wise for Smash to cross-promote.

And if we were getting a promotional character, it'd probably be the Nahobino from SMTV.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

A limbless character would certainly look awkward, all he could possibly do would be charging at you and using his beak which isn't interesting in the slightest tbh.

Not entirely. The birds could still use items and stuff with the cartoony "unexplained close range telekinesis". You could probably give the main bird a slingshot as a melee weapon or something. I'd have to look more into it to see what else though.

Angry Birds is also certainly way past its prime because people aren't interested in the brand anymore (i.e. it's faddy), and there was some big trouble regarding this:

Well I can't read the article because it requires a subscription, but from what I've heard the management brand was heavily bungled by Rovio. Like, they took all of the games people knew the series for off of the market because they wanted their series's identity to be based off the fads they were chasing.

It's certainly not doing very hot right now, but that's also not a requirement for inclusion, even for 3rd party characters.

 

[Technomage]

Aaaanyways, what do you think Kazuya's alts might be? I made a thread about it (https://smashboards.com/threads/alternate-colors.513929/), but the ideas I listed were:

1. Gi (default)
2. Jin Kazama (black/orange gi)
3. Heihachi (grey/red gi)
4. Tekken 1 Devil Kazuya (purple/white gi)
5. G Corp Suit (default)
6. Tekken 2 Kazuya (purple suit)
7. TTT2 Kazuya (white suit)
8. Demitri (blue suit)

Maybe alternate colors that reference other members of the Mishima family (also including the Kazama, Lee, and Alexandersson branches)? Maybe your idea of an alt with Heihachi colors could also include white hair?

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

I'm a little sad that Jin Kazama isn't going to be playable and that he can't be an alternate costume because he has different moves compared to Kazuya.

That's it. That's the comment. No happy ending.

I remember running around kickin dudes and such to that crazy music in Tekken 5: Devil Within and that honestly made me associate Tekken with Jin Kazama, so I was a bit caught offguard when Kazuya got in truth be told.

Lots of good times with Tekken 5. Any chance we can get that opening song "Sparking" in Smash? I'm here nooooooow I'M DOIN THE BEEEEEEEEST I CAAAAAAAN

 

[GilTheGreat19]

This would be a cool Kazuya alt

From Tekken 7.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I’ve done a little research on Tekken in preparation for the release. Jim and Kazuya had similar moves in the earlier games but differentiated themselves drastically during the later games of the series. Its kinda like Ken and Ryu.

Jin would work as an Echo if the developers really wanted to include him.

If my hour of googling holds any merit, that is.

Yes, Jin was originally literally just Kazuya with some extra moves taken from Jun, but that stopped being the case in Tekken 4. Starting with 5 however, the original incarnation of Jin lived on with Devil Jin who also inherited Devil Kazuya's moves. So I guess the most appropriate thing would be to have Devil Jin be the alt.

 

[Technomage]

And if we were getting a promotional character, it'd probably be the Nahobino from SMTV.

That gonna be the "disappointment with a sword" we'll be getting in CP11?

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Leaks cost approximately 150,000 dollars

The Pokemon Company settles lawsuit over Pokemon Sword and Shield leaks

At the end of 2019, The Pokemon Company filed lawsuits against leakers that had made certain information about the games known prior to release. The defendants were involved with uploading pictures to the internet that revealed unannounced Pokemon and alternate forms from the official strategy...

nintendoeverything.com

ANYHOW

I didn't think of this, I can't remember where I originally saw it, but it isn't MINE, I only read it.

Kazuya gimmick:


A is punch, B is kick.

Use A and B with the control stick positions for different moves that you can string together.

Tradeoff is that he isn't super great in the air.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

That gonna be the "disappointment with a sword" we'll be getting in CP11?

parallel theory is real

cp11 will have a sword just like byleth

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I don't know; I've seen a few people suggest Jin as a potential Kaz echo. On the other hand, I'm not sure if they're similar enough for that.

The only thing I could suggest is if they borrow heavily from the first three Tekken games but Jin has some moves that Jun uses. Besides, echo fighters can't be part of the Fighters Pass because they're not advertised in what's included with these challenger packs.

 

[Technomage]

The only thing I could suggest is if they borrow heavily from the first three Tekken games but Jin has some moves that Jun uses. Besides, echo fighters can't be part of the Fighters Pass because they're not advertised in what's included with these challenger packs.

True, though a friend of mine did state that the last part was only said for FP1, not FP2.