Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[DarthEnderX]

Ironically, they're the same age as you lol.

....and I'm only 7 years behind both of you.

I'm 42...

Then again, 20 years ago might feel better?

Gamecenter CX considers any console that's 20-years-old to be retro, and thus, fair to cover on the show.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think the whole debate about the term "retro" just proves that the term is kinda screwey. Like, to me, statements like this:

For me, Retro is "10 years ago".

Are the same thing as saying "wow 10 years old? That's reeealy old", or to put it another way, that 10 years old = 30 years old...It doesn't.

"It's a matter of opinion."

Well that makes the term incredibly useless as a category it since it means something different to everyone. You can't use a category that things simultaneously do and don't belong to it depending on who you ask. It defeats the purpose.

If it means that it's old enough to be a part of the current generation's childhood, then fine, but stuff from the 1900's is older than retro then (give or take a few years). If it means strictly 80's/90's then sure, but stuff that was active in the 2000's isn't retro.

I’m really old (37)...

slams desk

37 IS NOT OLD!!!

 

[Gengar84]

I got another question about another potential candidate for an "Equilibrium" trailer involving a DLC character killing both Galeem and Dharkon: Would a Mortal Kombat character make a good candidate for that, since MK characters tend to kill both dark gods (such as Shinnok) and light gods (such as Kronika and Cetrion)?

Yeah, I could totally see that. I’m still hoping we get Scorpion and Sub-Zero since I’ve wanted to see Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter crossover forever. Even if they don’t happen, there are lots of other characters I’d be hyped for like Battletoads, Crono, Illidan, Kerrigan, Diablo, Lu Bu and a ton of others that still have a small chance.

 

[Ivander]

What about Phantom, though? From what I've gathered, it also uses a weapon of each type, but with a Katana, Assault Rifle and Rod. Would that work too? I'm still assuming Hero would get priority (hence the name), but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Not particularly. Phantom does use a Melee, Ranged and Technique weapon, but it's not focused around switching compared to the Hero and can stick to one weapon. Heck, it's a bit infamous for being a much better Force/Techter for dealing damage and evading and the amount of damage it does with Techniques and it's Melee attack are very much stronger than it's damage with Katana and Assault Rifle. It's not that those weapons are bad for Phantom, but the Rod and Techniques just do so much more damage.

Also, what about stages and music tracks? Do you have posts for that as well? All I know is that one song Max Dood sometimes puts in the background of his videos.

For stages, the most likely stage would be travelling around the outside of the ships of the ARKS Fleet. The Guardian and Matoi are members of ARKS and your main Hub is in an ARK ship. However, you get alot of sight-seeing on the actual ARKs fleet itself and for a stage, you can have the players fight outside the ships of the ARKS Fleet, then transport them to the outside of the different planets of PSO2, like Naverius and Lilipa. They can also transport to the ARKS Mothership and witness it be corrupted by Luther the Fallen as an idea.

As for music, Behold! The Main Theme of Phantasy Star Online 2, The Whole New World

Pretty much the main theme for not just being on the first Intro sequence, but for being used as the climatic final touch of the majority of the Story Bosses. Here's a good case example that includes an old favourite theme of Phantasy Star RPG fans.

As for other music, Phantasy Star Online 2 has alot from ambient tracks that switch to battle tracks when an enemy appears:

Spoiler: Lots of music videos

To Normal Boss tracks, with most Bosses you encounter in areas having their own theme sorta like Monster Hunter:

Spoiler: More music

To the Urgent and Story Quest Boss tracks:

Spoiler: So much more music

To some remixes of Phantasy Star RPG and PSO tracks like the one track above:

Spoiler: More music

To the Guardian's own theme in Episode 5 and 6:

Spoiler

To Idol and Concert music:

Spoiler: No seriously, PSO2 has their own Idol and concert singers

To the Opening Themes that aren't the Main theme:

Spoiler: And much more music

To ****ing Leygender! Because it deserves to have it's own Spoiler Slot and Mention!

Spoiler: It's so ******* good!

And there we go People! So many Phantasy Star Online 2 music tracks for you to check out if Phantasy Star gets a character in Smash. And if you really like them, there's still plenty of music I didn't show that you can find on Youtube. At the very least, listen to frickin' Leygender. To me, that music track alone is worth a Phantasy Star character like Ezio is worth it for Venice Rooftops. But still, try to give all the tracks a good listen, even the Idol and Concert music.

Now if you excuse me, after doing this post:

 

[Dinoman96]

One of these days, you kids will accept the fact that Ice Climbers are the one and only true "retro" character in Smash (as in, they were included for the specific purpose of having an old forgotten NES era character on the roster).

Pit was a geniune popular character request, and Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B and Duck Hunt are what Sakurai considers to be "surprise fighters", and he views Piranha Plant as Ultimate's equivalent. It so happens that the rest of them happen to be old characters.

 

[DarthEnderX]

And I'm really tired of this debate over who's "deserving" and who isn't.

I know, right? There's no reason for debate.

It's whoever I say it is.

 

[Planet Cool]

I feel like "retro rep" in the eyes of Sakurai is basically anything on the NES.

Personally anything 6th gen or older is I'd consider retro. maybe even putting 7th gen stuff in the mix wouldn't be wrong at this point, but I'm a bit more iffy on that myself.

To paraphrase Josh from The Geek Critique, retro isn't about how old something is, it's about how much gaming has advanced since then. For the last few generations (arguably since the N64/PS1 era), the only thing that's really changed is that the graphics look nicer.

 

[Idon]

Ya know who also doesn't give a damn about the alignments of light and dark?

 

[WahHahaha]

I know, right? There's no reason for debate.

It's whoever I say it is.

The sad thing is I love Smash, but the community just seems to have gotten more and more toxic after they added Pac Man and Mega Man. Now it's just about who's "iconic" or "deserving" and it's always "Add Crash because he rivaled Mario, but don't add Waluigi, because he's a meme character and not as deserving"

I guess I wish this community could be back to how it was before they added Pac Man and Mega Man and before DLC existed. Not an all out warzone, but just a group of people waiting for each reveal to get excited instead of all the toxic fighting and ****ting on character reveals.

I love the game and recognize that it's not just about the most popular characters, I wish other people would too.

 

[Gengar84]

One of these days, you kids will accept the fact that Ice Climbers are the one and only true "retro" character in Smash (as in, they were included for the specific purpose of having an old forgotten NES era character on the roster).

Pit was a geniune popular character request, and Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B and Duck Hunt are what Sakurai considers to be "surprise fighters", and he views Piranha Plant as Ultimate's equivalent. It so happens that the rest of them happen to be old characters.

For me, any character or IP from the 2D era that hasn’t been very active for at least 10 years is retro. I’d consider Simon, Duck Hunt, Pit (at the time) and Ice Climbers all retro. Someone like Pirahna Plant wouldn’t count because it still appears regularly in Mario games.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Wait, i think i missed something. Did Vergeben leaked Master Chief on his official Reddit account before Kazuya reveal?... If it was really him, he might have the right info, but not about FP10.

Verge straight leaked MC on his Reddit. Given the facts that he also teased the Zelda Champions, NWPlayer also said MC and that one Xbox insider saying good on Nintendo to weed out leakers, I'm inclined to believe both NWPlayer and Verge were ensnared in a canary trap. To illustrate, I'd also add that one of NWPlayer's encrypted codes was "Nintendo Switch Advance" and, prior to the code being cracked, said that that code was leak bait.

Personally, I do not believe MC to be coming. If it was a canary trap, then making the bait something that's actually legit doesn't make any ****ing sense.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

If a Phantasy Star rep ever gets in want a Dungeon 1 remix since I considered the "Vampire Killer" song of PS

I love the remix for it by Yoko Shimomura

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

View attachment 319923
For me, any character or IP from the 2D era that hasn’t been very active for at least 10 years is retro. I’d consider Simon, Duck Hunt, Pit (at the time) and Ice Climbers all retro. Someone like Pirahna Plant wouldn’t count because it still appears regularly in Mario games.

Castlevania has been active, though? It literally has a show going on right now, and still is using it's IP for various games. I mean, they're meh Pachinko Machines, but it's hard use of the IP. It's in use regardless. This isn't just re-releases either, but new items by Konami.

Rest, definitely. Do you consider Richter the same, btw? Or do you mean it can be the Character or IP, whichever fits your definition first? Castlevania being an active series means nothing if Simon himself isn't active. Is that correct?

 

[DarthEnderX]

and it's always "Add Crash because he rivaled Mario

Which is stupid, because people only think that because a commercial told them so. Crash was never any kind of rival to Mario. The Crash games of that era were a double scoop of dog****.

For me, any character or IP from the 2D era that hasn’t been very active for at least 10 years is retro.

For me, any character or IP from the 2D era is retro whether they're active or not.

Arthur would have still been a retro pick to me, even though her just got a new game.

 

[Gengar84]

Castlevania has been active, though? It literally has a show going on right now, and still is using it's IP for various games. I mean, they're meh Pachinko Machines, but it's hard use of the IP. It's in use regardless. This isn't just re-releases either, but new items by Konami.

Rest, definitely. Do you consider Richter the same, btw? Or do you mean it can be the Character or IP, whichever fits your definition first? Castlevania being an active series means nothing if Simon himself isn't active. Is that correct?

That is kind of what I was getting at. I also don’t really take into account non game appearances like the anime or Pachinko machines. To my knowledge, it has been a long time since we’ve had a new entry into the series.

Really though, I have no idea because I still consider Battletoads retro even though they had a new game recently so nothing I say really makes any sense lol.

 

[WahHahaha]

Which is stupid, because people only think that because a commercial told them so. Crash was never any kind of rival to Mario. The Crash games of that era were a double scoop of dog****.

Personally I loved the Crash games, but according to this community he's the most iconic character in existence and everyone else is more "undeserving"

Which is crazy since he's not in, it's almost like these people are just missing the entire point of the game. It's a gaming crossover, not a gaming icon crossover.

 

[DarthEnderX]

It's a gaming crossover, not a gaming icon crossover.

Yeah, but...I'd rather it was a gaming icon crossover. And wishlist accordingly.

 

[Technomage]

Ya know who also doesn't give a damn about the alignments of light and dark?
View attachment 319924

There's also Dante, since in his series (main one), angels are actually another type of demon.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

To paraphrase Josh from The Geek Critique, retro isn't about how old something is, it's about how much gaming has advanced since then.

I think that's a definition I can get behind. If something would be pretty archaic in today's standards, then it could be considered retro.

For the last few generations (arguably since the N64/PS1 era), the only thing that's really changed is that the graphics look nicer.

I don't think that's entirely true. Game design also changes over time. For example, random encounters were still the default encounter mechanic for RPGs during the N64 era, but nowadays it's use is pretty few and far between (there's like, Bravely Default and Octopath Traveler and that's it for relatively high profile ones, at least in recent memory).

Which is stupid, because people only think that because a commercial told them so. Crash was never any kind of rival to Mario. The Crash games of that era were a double scoop of dog****.

Your opinion of the Crash Bandicoot series does not change it's level success. For a time, Crash was big enough people to consider him a mascot for the Playstation. Claiming otherwise is revisionist.

 

[Gengar84]

There's also Dante, since in his series (main one), angels are actually another type of demon.

There’s also Laharl from Disgaea. He regularly fights both demons and angels and Disgaea’s power levels are so over the top that I could easily see him taking on both Dharkon and Galeem.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That is kind of what I was getting at. I also don’t really take into account non game appearances like the anime or Pachinko machines. To my knowledge, it has been a long time since we’ve had a new entry into the series.

Really though, I have no idea because I still consider Battletoads retro even though they had a new game recently so nothing I say really makes any sense lol.

Pachinko Machines are considered Video Games, to be fair. Though I admit it's kind of borderline. Regardless, Simon I'm pretty sure wasn't part of that, so it doesn't matter. He's not in the cartoon either.

But the fact the character appears in the IP in an active new thing should be enough. It's a matter of the franchise. Richter is scheduled to be in the Castlevania anime, so he shouldn't be retro by any means anymore. ...I mean, he would be for the purpose of entering Ultimate, though.

If you're making an exception for Battletoads, your definition should fit to match it. In this case, it would make sense that you're referring to their retro game as the one they're coming from, which also fits why you're not counting later games like the official Pachinko ones or the Cartoon. These aren't the "retro designs" either.

Can you see why the term Retro is pretty hard to define the rules on? XD I don't even have a strict one for creating rosters. I go more by design at this point, and that's still up in the air.

 

[TheMightyP]

Retro for you guys is like NES and SNES, meanwhile retro for me is like Gamecube/Wii.


Oldheads. Must've sucked living in the Great Depression.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Retro for you guys is like NES and SNES, meanwhile retro for me is like Gamecube/Wii.


Oldheads. Must've sucked living in the Great Depression.

You know. 18, 60. Same thing really.

 

[Gengar84]

Pachinko Machines are considered Video Games, to be fair. Though I admit it's kind of borderline. Regardless, Simon I'm pretty sure wasn't part of that, so it doesn't matter. He's not in the cartoon either.

But the fact the character appears in the IP in an active new thing should be enough. It's a matter of the franchise. Richter is scheduled to be in the Castlevania anime, so he shouldn't be retro by any means anymore. ...I mean, he would be for the purpose of entering Ultimate, though.

If you're making an exception for Battletoads, your definition should fit to match it. In this case, it would make sense that you're referring to their retro game as the one they're coming from, which also fits why you're not counting later games like the official Pachinko ones or the Cartoon. These aren't the "retro designs" either.

Can you see why the term Retro is pretty hard to define the rules on? XD I don't even have a strict one for creating rosters. I go more by design at this point, and that's still up in the air.

Yeah, it’s really confusing when you get down to trying to have a strict definition. I guess the best I can explain my thoughts is possibly the scale of the games themselves and how iconic they were for the time. Battletoads and Contra both had recent games but they kind of felt like low budget games that didn’t have the same heart behind them. Battletoads also hadn’t gotten a game in over 25 years so one smaller game isn’t enough to not consider them retro. Ninja Gaiden, in contrast, had a very big and successful revival that brought it back into the mainstream so I don’t really consider it retro anymore. I’m not sure if that makes any sense. I’m not even sure if I fully understand why I feel that way myself.

 

[Shroob]

So, who do y'all think are dying come the 28th?


Lloyd's your free space.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So, who do y'all think are dying come the 28th?


Lloyd's your free space.

Everything Namco.


Das' it.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Retro for me is anything two console generations back or older. N64 was the oldest Nintendo Home Console represented on the Wii's Virtual Console during its lifespan so I got my retro metric from that.

Right now Wii and older is retro for me.

 

[TheMightyP]

So, who do y'all think are dying come the 28th?


Lloyd's your free space.

Edit:
100% all in on Rayman.
I'm not too sure about Crash dying just yet, so I removed him.

 

[Paraster]

So, who do y'all think are dying come the 28th?


Lloyd's your free space.

I'm going all in on Frisk or Papyrus being more likely, so I'm predicting/hoping for a Quote Gunner costume.

Other than that, I think Lloyd and a SoulCalibur character are safe predictions (not particularly notable "deaths" considering Namco characters are probably done for anyway, but still).

Also seconding Rayman.

 

[Gengar84]

I think the only logical conclusion I can come to is to stop using the term “retro” and instead just say “NES era”, “SNES era” and so on. I think that’s the best way to avoid any confusion.

 

[cashregister9]

So, who do y'all think are dying come the 28th?


Lloyd's your free space.

Mokujin, Xiaoyu, King, Maybe Nightmare

 

[perfectchaos83]

My Mii predictions are Lloyd, Dark Souls and maybe Kos Mos.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

So, who do y'all think are dying come the 28th?


Lloyd's your free space.

Probably Mallow from SMRPG and the Cacodemon from Doo-

 

[TheMightyP]

But if I had to take a garner, I think these will be the Mii Costumes:
Xenogears character
Maybe some more Tekken characters. Jin and King.
Lloyd
Rayman
Geno

 

[Idon]

But if I had to take a garner, I think these will be the Mii Costumes:
Xenogears character
Maybe some more Tekken characters. Jin and King.
Lloyd
Rayman
Geno

Boy do I have some news to tell you about that last one!

 

[subterrestrial]

digdug mii swordsman pls

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

So, who do y'all think are dying come the 28th?


Lloyd's your free space.

Nightmare is the one I’m feeling, Hollow Knight is the dream though, couldn’t hurt to get a Zagreus mii either.

 

[Noipoi]

So, who do y'all think are dying come the 28th?


Lloyd's your free space.

I wanna see the Prince from Katamari.

 

[cashregister9]

Boy do I have some news to tell you about that last one!

No it just means we will get...

GENO 2!!

 

[Planet Cool]

Valkyrie from Legend of the Valkyrie was my most wanted Namco character, so I hope she at least gets a Mii Swordfighter costume.

I'm not counting out Rayman at all. He's 100% still in the running. We all counted out Tekken after we got the Heihachi costume and look what happened.

Retro for you guys is like NES and SNES, meanwhile retro for me is like Gamecube/Wii.


Oldheads. Must've sucked living in the Great Depression.

Actually the pre-9/11 world was freakin' great. You could buy a house for a pocketful of lint and didn't even have to take your shoes off at the airport. It's too bad you'll never experience it.