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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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NonSpecificGuy

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There’s a lot of good Earthbound inspired games but a lot of them more or less try to adapt the wacky Americana inspired world of Earthbound and less so the gameplay of it. The only two that really come to mind are Undertale and Citizens of Earth and those are both great. And apparently YIIK but I’ve no idea what the **** that even is fr.


Yeah but tank controls aren't objectively awful lmao

Nah it's blatantly like Earthbound, no balancing time, relationships, etc. Just crap attempts at being wacky

I'd agree but the same applies to MetroidVanias and that's the good **** right there
Yeah, Metroidvania and Roguelike, and even Roguevania, are genres that are just overflowing with absolute masterpiece. Castlevania, Metroid, Ori, Hollow Knight, Axiom Verge, what’s that other one? Starts with Stood Blained?
 

Yiptap

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literally every single 1st party release got a spirit event except Luigi's Mansion 3. AND the 2 year anniversary (halloween) is coming up later this year as the smash dlc comes to a close. plus with how many villains they've added so far its not even a prediction and moreso just connecting the dots. many people think only third parties smash dlc can get revealed at e3 but LM3 itself was revealed at e3...

Fire Emblem 3 Houses also didn't get a spirit event for awhile and we all know how that turned out...
Miitopia and Famicom Detective Club


On the topic of Earthbound inspiring games, I feel like games should at least differ from Earthbound in terms of artstyle and gameplay. At least take "inspiration" from a different rpg, like Golden Sun or SMT. Undertale was already a perfectly good "Spiritual Successor", we didn't need 100 more (except Omori, Omori is perfect).
 

ahemtoday

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RPG’s can only be set in a fantasy realm or contemporary modern day.

I can’t imagine any other settings.
Honestly, a lot of the Earthbound successors kinda downplay the modern-day stuff, even, in favor of the "wacky, anything can happen, go fight an arcade cabinet" thing. Undertale does that. Omori kinda does that. I'm not sure if Yume Nikki was particularly Earthbound-inspired, but it has the same aesthetic going on.

Honestly, YIIK might be the only one I can think of that doesn't do that, though I'm not overly familiar so I could be wrong.

I'd agree but the same applies to MetroidVanias and that's the good **** right there
Right, but that doesn't bug me nearly as much. I'm not sure why - maybe it's because a Metroidvania game can have, like, any aesthetic it wants; but the Earthbound-likes are defined by their aesthetic more than anything.

Also, maybe the Earthbound thing just bugs me because "creative" meaning "be like this thing" is really grating.
 

Yiptap

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Right, but that doesn't bug me nearly as much. I'm not sure why - maybe it's because a Metroidvania game can have, like, any aesthetic it wants; but the Earthbound-likes are defined by their aesthetic more than anything.

Also, maybe the Earthbound thing just bugs me because "creative" meaning "be like this thing" is really grating.
I just realized this now (It contradicts my precious statement a TON), but a lot of RPGs have to use that Earthbound aesthetic because that is their only way to create RPGs is RPG maker. But then again, you could easily use a Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest aesthetic as well...
 

PeridotGX

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I never thought I'd see the day 2 completely different arguments about 2 radically different characters were being presented as being The Same Actually
I remember the leadup to E3 2019, when Banjo fans and Erdrick fans were fighting because they were convinced their characters were mutually exclusive for some reason. I thought it was silly, and lo and behold we got both of them.
 

ahemtoday

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Y'all should play Lisa: The Painful.


Talk about breaking the mold in regards to Earthbound inspired games.
Ah, yeah, Lisa gets away from that problem I just mentioned.

Unfortunately, I'm not super into post-apocalyptic stuff either, but yeah, I definitely can't say it feels like an Earthbound rehash in any respect.
 

Nekoo

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Earthbound is nice, earthbound is good, however it's super easy for anyone who's an RPG addict like me.
I would love to see another entries, one day, or a real remake, that would be absolute dope, sadly, however, the trend of "people copying earthbound" more often than not, completely miss the charm of Earthbound, the only one succeeding at this is in my opinion Undertale

The charm of earthbound, was to hide deep messages and emotion behind what seems to be a lighthearted kid story and adventure turning out to be greater than it's presentation, I'd say, the best comparison being would be how watching a Ghibli movie as a kid and then as an adult is a different experience.
Nowadays, earthbound inspired games are just "le epic subversion or social commentary" without the whimsical touch that Mother/Undertale has
 

Dan Quixote

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I just have a hard time imagining I'll want to keep coming here after 2-3 years of absolutely no news. That sounds like some kinda abusive relationship.
The responses to that question about staying on Smashboards after SSBU DLC ends kinda makes me think this site houses two very distinct and separate communities lol. Isn't most of this website's traffic from people who like competitive Smash coming to talk about that in the main character threads?
 

Shroob

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The responses to that question about staying on Smashboards after SSBU DLC ends kinda makes me think this site houses two very distinct and separate communities lol. Isn't most of this website's traffic from people who like competitive Smash coming to talk about that in the main character threads?
This is the most active thread on the site afaik, so...
 

Guynamednelson

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Isn't most of this website's traffic from people who like competitive Smash coming to talk about that in the main character threads
That rarely happens now. Unfortunately Twitter has taken over most Smash discussion despite...everything.
 

MooMew64

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So


How confident are y'all in a double reveal?



I think it's definitely likely, but I'm still erring on the side of EXTREME caution.
50/50.

I'll probably talk about this more in the video tomorrow, but I'm not 100% sold on either scenario. I could see them tryin' to stretch this out for the September Direct because it's a stupid easy way to get everyone and their Mom to watch, but I could also see Sakurai and Nintendo just being ready to move on and get the spotlight fully onto games like BotW2, Splatoon 3, and maybe even start preparing for Metroid Prime 4 hype if they're far enough along development to start that.
 

Guynamednelson

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Forums in general are a dying breed when things like Reddit and Twitter exist.


You come to forums for a sense of community over anything else, really.
You'd think more people would want to go back to forums when Reddit is full of clickbait hogging up actual discussions while Twitter is...yeah
 

Cutie Gwen

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I remember the leadup to E3 2019, when Banjo fans and Erdrick fans were fighting because they were convinced their characters were mutually exclusive for some reason. I thought it was silly, and lo and behold we got both of them.
I mean, that's still radically different as there was objective evidence for Dragon Quest
 

MooMew64

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You'd think more people would want to go back to forums when Reddit is full of clickbait hogging up actual discussions while Twitter is...yeah
Forums aren't really that much different. We got our own share of problems.

But this is derailing the thread soooooo uhhhhhhhh

Gooigi will be the first upgraded post-release spirit.

:nifty:
 
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Guynamednelson

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And yet the Smash subreddit has almost 1 million subscribed users, while this site caps at like 200 on a good day.
Well to be fair to r/smashbros, it's r/SmashBrosUltimate that has a bigger upvote bait problem.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Well I mean a lot of us could pivot to competitive Smash discussion after the last fighter is released; that could make for a healthier topic than speculation perhaps.


Reads the news about the recent two and half hour YouTube manifesto video aimed at competitive player Leffen, including comparing him to Light Yagami


...Okay, maybe there is something to be said about extended speculation talk.
 

GoodGrief741

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Earthbound is nice, earthbound is good, however it's super easy for anyone who's an RPG addict like me.
I would love to see another entries, one day, or a real remake, that would be absolute dope, sadly, however, the trend of "people copying earthbound" more often than not, completely miss the charm of Earthbound, the only one succeeding at this is in my opinion Undertale

The charm of earthbound, was to hide deep messages and emotion behind what seems to be a lighthearted kid story and adventure turning out to be greater than it's presentation, I'd say, the best comparison being would be how watching a Ghibli movie as a kid and then as an adult is a different experience.
Nowadays, earthbound inspired games are just "le epic subversion or social commentary" without the whimsical touch that Mother/Undertale has
I agree with everything you say and I think you succinctly explained what the main strength of Earthbound is. However I don't think that it's necessarily a flaw if a game doesn't replicate that. The Mother games are multifaceted and oftentimes make their mark in very subtle ways that are hard to replicate. If what someone got out of them was the offbeat humor, or the cultural satire, or the cartoony aesthetic, and wanted to homage the series by putting that in their work, that's great! It still works as an influence that you can point to because Earthbound is all of that (and more), and it also helps the game stand on its own (even if it is just by a flaw in the process of imitation).

At the end of the day there will never be a game quite like Earthbound; I don't think even Undertale gets there, despite being an incredible game it's almost the antithesis of Earthbound in many aspects. And that's perfectly fine, because if what I wanted was more Earthbound I'd just play a fangame. (speaking of, when's Oddity coming out I'm aging here)
 

TheCJBrine

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I’ve been playing The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth so I’m gonna make a post about the crying child and how his inclusion in Smash could work (note: I’m only familiar with most of the basegame of Rebirth so far (I got it about a little over a week ago) as well as the original game’s demo, but I’ve looked at/read about/listened to some stuff online):

Moveset:

My creative juices are not flowing very well, so here’s a video by BrawlFan1; it sounds kinda complicated but also like it could be very cool and fun:

Of course, there are many items and stuff in The Binding of Isaac, so I’m sure they could make an awesome moveset out of various options, but it must include Isaac’s perpetual waterworks.

Music:

Some music probably wouldn’t be chosen due to their titles, like Matricide, but there’s still a lot I think could represent the game perfectly well on their own:

-The main menu theme

-The Basement theme and other areas’ themes

-The standard boss battle theme

-Maybe Ventricide (since it’s not an existing word, but a combination of ventricle and the -cide suffix)

-Music from the original game (so we could get two different themes for the Basement and other areas, as well as music for the bosses who may have a not-E10+ titled theme in Rebirth (so we could also get music such as My Innermost Apocalypse))

Stage:

It’d probably just be the Basement, but a stage with various locations would be cool; maybe it’d randomly choose a location upon starting a match (similar to the Minecraft stage). Some areas would likely meet Nintendo’s ban hammer (such as the ones in Chapter 4), but here’s summaries of some that could work:
  • Basement - A standard basement with wooden walls and a hard floor.
  • Cellar - Similar to the Basement, but completely made of wood, detailed with webs, and has a focus on spiders.
  • Caves - Caves made of brown stone, with water here and there.
  • Catacombs - Similar to the caves, but with brick walls detailed with skulls on some spots
  • Depths - A dark, prison- or dungeon-like area. (may also be based on a sewer or torture chamber however)
  • Necropolis - Similar to the Depths, but with brick walls and maybe a little spookier (I learned “necropolis” means a land of the dead/a large cemetery)
There’s also others, such as the Flooded Caves and more in the DLC. Maybe the chest Isaac hides in could also be used, since it seems to have some significance + there’s another area/floor based on it, though if not its own area I’m not sure what the chest itself would do in Smash.

Alternate Costumes:

If Isaac doesn’t just get color alts., I believe the other playable characters could be used, since they just look like Isaac but in a wig, outfit, or with a demon or dead appearance (the characters being Magdalene, Eve, Samson, The Lost, and multiple others), and would still fit what BrawlFan1 explains in his video (that Isaac’s appearance changes with the items he picks up like in his game) if they use that mechanic.

Spirits:

I’m not entirely sure, since a lot of the bosses and such have a detail that Nintendo may not allow without censoring if they can even be censored (like Gurdy, Gemini, Larry Jr., Mega Maw, Mom’s Heart, It Lives, etc.), but here’s some examples that could probably work:

-Isaac himself
-The other playable characters
-Mom
-Monstro
-Chub
-Pin
-The Haunt
-Greed (he wears a cut noose around his neck as if it were a tie so this may be a stretch)

Reveal Tagline:

Idk. “Isaac faces his fears!” I guess?

Evidence for Isaac:

absolutely nothing. He doesn’t really have anything other indies don’t have, that being having their games on Nintendo systems and having popularity, so there’s not really anything indicating he’s any likelier than other characters (even if I like to say he’s definitely gonna get in and defeat Dharkon with his tears in my less-serious posts out of hopeful optimism and a belief that it could very well happen).

Conclusion:

5 year old bald kid who weaponizes his eye fluids would be awesome in Smash, and he’s gonna be top tier and make his opponents rage so they’ll copy that “I will become back my money” meme.
 

Shroob

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I’ve been playing The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth so I’m gonna make a post about the crying child and how his inclusion in Smash could work (note: I’m only familiar with most of the basegame of Rebirth so far (I got it about a little over a week ago) as well as the original game’s demo, but I’ve looked at/read about/listened to some stuff online):

Moveset:

My creative juices are not flowing very well, so here’s a video by BrawlFan1; it sounds kinda complicated but also like it could be very cool and fun:

Of course, there are many items and stuff in The Binding of Isaac, so I’m sure they could make an awesome moveset out of various options, but it must include Isaac’s perpetual waterworks.

Music:

Some music probably wouldn’t be chosen due to their titles, like Matricide, but there’s still a lot I think could represent the game perfectly well on their own:

-The main menu theme

-The Basement theme and other areas’ themes

-The standard boss battle theme

-Maybe Ventricide (since it’s not an existing word, but a combination of ventricle and the -cide suffix)

-Music from the original game (so we could get two different themes for the Basement and other areas, as well as music for the bosses who may have a not-E10+ titled theme in Rebirth (so we could also get music such as My Innermost Apocalypse))

Stage:

It’d probably just be the Basement, but a stage with various locations would be cool; maybe it’d randomly choose a location upon starting a match (similar to the Minecraft stage). Some areas would likely meet Nintendo’s ban hammer (such as the ones in Chapter 4), but here’s summaries of some that could work:
  • Basement - A standard basement with wooden walls and a hard floor.
  • Cellar - Similar to the Basement, but completely made of wood, detailed with webs, and has a focus on spiders.
  • Caves - Caves made of brown stone, with water here and there.
  • Catacombs - Similar to the caves, but with brick walls detailed with skulls on some spots
  • Depths - A dark, prison- or dungeon-like area. (may also be based on a sewer or torture chamber however)
  • Necropolis - Similar to the Depths, but with brick walls and maybe a little spookier (I learned “necropolis” means a land of the dead/a large cemetery)
There’s also others, such as the Flooded Caves and more in the DLC. Maybe the chest Isaac hides in could also be used, since it seems to have some significance + there’s another area/floor based on it, though if not its own area I’m not sure what the chest itself would do in Smash.

Alternate Costumes:

If Isaac doesn’t just get color alts., I believe the other playable characters could be used, since they just look like Isaac but in a wig, outfit, or with a demon or dead appearance (the characters being Magdalene, Eve, Samson, The Lost, and multiple others), and would still fit what BrawlFan1 explains in his video (that Isaac’s appearance changes with the items he picks up like in his game) if they use that mechanic.

Spirits:

I’m not entirely sure, since a lot of the bosses and such have a detail that Nintendo may not allow without censoring if they can even be censored (like Gurdy, Gemini, Larry Jr., Mega Maw, Mom’s Heart, It Lives, etc.), but here’s some examples that could probably work:

-Isaac himself
-The other playable characters
-Mom
-Monstro
-Chub
-Pin
-The Haunt
-Greed (he wears a cut noose around his neck as if it were a tie so this may be a stretch)

Reveal Tagline:

Idk. “Isaac faces his fears!” I guess?

Evidence for Isaac:

absolutely nothing. He doesn’t really have anything other indies don’t have, that being having their games on Nintendo systems and having popularity, so there’s not really anything indicating he’s any likelier than other characters (even if I like to say he’s definitely gonna get in and defeat Dharkon with his tears in my less-serious posts out of hopeful optimism and a belief that it could very well happen).

Conclusion:

5 year old bald kid who weaponizes his eye fluids would be awesome in Smash, and he’s gonna be top tier and make his opponents rage so they’ll copy that “I will become back my money” meme.
Masahiro Sakurai
You little ******
You made a **** of peace with your trash Smash
It's ****ing bad this trash game
I will become back my money
I hope you will in your next time a cow, on a trash farm
You sucker
 

Mushroomguy12

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The responses to that question about staying on Smashboards after SSBU DLC ends kinda makes me think this site houses two very distinct and separate communities lol. Isn't most of this website's traffic from people who like competitive Smash coming to talk about that in the main character threads?
I don’t know if anyone else has the same experience or if I just haven’t been paying attention, but I rarely ever see competitive threads on the front page of latest posts, most of the time it’s just Newcomer Speculation (This thread, individual support threads, RTC, Character Exploration, etc.), Social Threads, Forum Games, or Creation Threads that I see get updated.
 

GoodGrief741

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Joined
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Messages
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I don’t know if anyone else has the same experience or if I just haven’t been paying attention, but I rarely ever see competitive threads on the front page of latest posts, most of the time it’s just Newcomer Speculation (This thread, individual support threads, RTC, Character Exploration, etc.), Social Threads, Forum Games, or Creation Threads that I see get updated.
I was today years old when I learned there are competitive threads on Smashboards. I guess I should have imagined it but I honestly thought this site just had speculation and Smash-related social threads.
 

MonkeyDLenny

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
1,559
How confident are y'all in a double reveal?
It'll absolutely be a single reveal, but Nintendo's E3 will be strong enough that only one reveal will be enough to carry it.

No way Nintendo is blind to how Smash whips people up in a frenzy and how people beg for reveals, to the point where their Twitter has to go OUT OF ITS WAY to specify whenever Smash WON'T be present at an event. Other companies dream of that kind of brand loyalty.

It's in their best interest for them to keep us all on the hook and drag this out as long as they possibly can to keep us engaged. My guess is Challenger 11 will be revealed in a big blow-out event like they did for Smash 4, and the reveal will roll straight into the very last Sakurai Presents.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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I’ve been playing The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth so I’m gonna make a post about the crying child and how his inclusion in Smash could work (note: I’m only familiar with most of the basegame of Rebirth so far (I got it about a little over a week ago) as well as the original game’s demo, but I’ve looked at/read about/listened to some stuff online):

Moveset:

My creative juices are not flowing very well, so here’s a video by BrawlFan1; it sounds kinda complicated but also like it could be very cool and fun:

Of course, there are many items and stuff in The Binding of Isaac, so I’m sure they could make an awesome moveset out of various options, but it must include Isaac’s perpetual waterworks.

Music:

Some music probably wouldn’t be chosen due to their titles, like Matricide, but there’s still a lot I think could represent the game perfectly well on their own:

-The main menu theme

-The Basement theme and other areas’ themes

-The standard boss battle theme

-Maybe Ventricide (since it’s not an existing word, but a combination of ventricle and the -cide suffix)

-Music from the original game (so we could get two different themes for the Basement and other areas, as well as music for the bosses who may have a not-E10+ titled theme in Rebirth (so we could also get music such as My Innermost Apocalypse))

Stage:

It’d probably just be the Basement, but a stage with various locations would be cool; maybe it’d randomly choose a location upon starting a match (similar to the Minecraft stage). Some areas would likely meet Nintendo’s ban hammer (such as the ones in Chapter 4), but here’s summaries of some that could work:
  • Basement - A standard basement with wooden walls and a hard floor.
  • Cellar - Similar to the Basement, but completely made of wood, detailed with webs, and has a focus on spiders.
  • Caves - Caves made of brown stone, with water here and there.
  • Catacombs - Similar to the caves, but with brick walls detailed with skulls on some spots
  • Depths - A dark, prison- or dungeon-like area. (may also be based on a sewer or torture chamber however)
  • Necropolis - Similar to the Depths, but with brick walls and maybe a little spookier (I learned “necropolis” means a land of the dead/a large cemetery)
There’s also others, such as the Flooded Caves and more in the DLC. Maybe the chest Isaac hides in could also be used, since it seems to have some significance + there’s another area/floor based on it, though if not its own area I’m not sure what the chest itself would do in Smash.

Alternate Costumes:

If Isaac doesn’t just get color alts., I believe the other playable characters could be used, since they just look like Isaac but in a wig, outfit, or with a demon or dead appearance (the characters being Magdalene, Eve, Samson, The Lost, and multiple others), and would still fit what BrawlFan1 explains in his video (that Isaac’s appearance changes with the items he picks up like in his game) if they use that mechanic.

Spirits:

I’m not entirely sure, since a lot of the bosses and such have a detail that Nintendo may not allow without censoring if they can even be censored (like Gurdy, Gemini, Larry Jr., Mega Maw, Mom’s Heart, It Lives, etc.), but here’s some examples that could probably work:

-Isaac himself
-The other playable characters
-Mom
-Monstro
-Chub
-Pin
-The Haunt
-Greed (he wears a cut noose around his neck as if it were a tie so this may be a stretch)

Reveal Tagline:

Idk. “Isaac faces his fears!” I guess?

Evidence for Isaac:

absolutely nothing. He doesn’t really have anything other indies don’t have, that being having their games on Nintendo systems and having popularity, so there’s not really anything indicating he’s any likelier than other characters (even if I like to say he’s definitely gonna get in and defeat Dharkon with his tears in my less-serious posts out of hopeful optimism and a belief that it could very well happen).

Conclusion:

5 year old bald kid who weaponizes his eye fluids would be awesome in Smash, and he’s gonna be top tier and make his opponents rage so they’ll copy that “I will become back my money” meme.
I’d be hyped for Isaac. Not that Isaac. But he’s fine too.
 

rychu_supadude

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
332
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Not that hot. All of the really good Nintendo characters are already in Smash.

There are a lot more interesting 3rd party characters left that are just more exciting than Nintendo's D-listers.
That wasn't quite what I meant, I literally have over 20 Nintendo most wanteds that will make me pop off harder than pretty much any 3rd party. There's value in the thrill of the unexpected, but it's not nearly as strong for me. I'm just acknowledging where the rest of the zeitgeist is.
 
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