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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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subterrestrial

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idk how yall can make predictions on a “hype/lame/popular” reveal because its all subjective lmao
It’s definitely 2 first parties tho
 

WeirdChillFever

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Good point but spirits don't necessarily deconfirmed. I actually think here Hyrule Warriors moveset would be a great option because it would be a unique moveset for Smash. No matter how you spin it, she would share moves with Sheik.
Oh yeah, I don’t think Impa as a whole is out, but as I said without AoC Impa her fanbase is a bit more divided on what game she should pull the most inspiration from.
 

toonito

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My thoughts on 3rd party characters getting cut for Smash 6. as always take these with a grain of salt just me speculating
:ultsonic:: I don't see getting cut going forward
:ultsnake:: Could happen again due to relationship between Kojima and Konami if so then I think Bomberman would be next in line
:ultmegaman:: don't see getting cut; possible swap with another Rockman (X, EXE, Volnutt, or Starforce) but not likely
:ultpacman:: don't see getting cut as long as Namco's Smash developer; even if Smash was developed by another studio Pac-Man should be safe
:ultryu:: don't see getting cut going forward
:ultken:: could see him not making it back if so does his "spot" go to another Capcom rep or SF rep?
:ultcloud:: I think he's the likeliest of the 3 SE reps so far to return.
:ultbayonetta:: she seems to be safe unless internally she's in direct competition with Astral Chain due to them both being Platinum Games/Nintendo.
:ultsimon: : could see him returning. I think all current 3rd parties will have at least one rep going forward unless a professional breakdown happens with Nintendo. Also doesn't seem to have the ownership issues Snake has.
:ultrichter:: 50/50 depends on if Sakurai wants to continue branding Echo fighters.
:ultjoker:: don't know i'm leaning on him returning.
:ulthero:: i feel not all three SE reps will return and yet despite DQ's popularity in Japan I feel he's the 2nd most likely to return.
:ultbanjokazooie:: interestingly enough i have a feeling they won't make it back.
:ult_terry:: theoretically should be safe unless they want to rotate the SNK rep (if there's only one) to Marco or Nakoruru. If SNK has more than 1 rep he's safe.
:ultsteve:: I think he's more likely to return than Banjo
:ultsephiroth:: I don't think he'll return.
 

perfectchaos83

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Reimu has a shot. I think Rayman is more well-known in Japan than we think. Ubisoft loves to spam him everywhere kind of like Sega and Sonic (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). I will give it to you that he is probably more obscure than some of the other third parties added.
You're talking about a character whose games cant even chart on sales charts. Top 20 usually bottoms out on about 2K and Rayman couldn't even achieve that. And that's WITH Nintendo publishing. Even super niche JP series do better than that in the States.
 
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Louie G.

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idk how yall can make predictions on a “hype/lame/popular” reveal because its all subjective lmao
When I suggest a "lowkey" character it usually doesn't reflect my own feelings toward them. Terry is my favorite DLC character thus far and most of my MWs would fall into a more humbled category of hype compared to the major heavy hitters of the community.

So honestly it would be in my best interest for the final two not to be conventionally "hype", but it's not hard to gauge which picks are generally accepted as the big boys within the community and informed by the reactions to reveals prior / the names that trend on Twitter before an announcement, etc. That's usually what I'm referring to, not whether or not I personally or a handful of people on this board would find certain characters hype, but how significant the response to those characters would be from the general consensus.
 

volbound1700

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You're talking about a character whose games cant even chart on sales charts. Top 20 usually bottoms out on about 2K and Rayman couldn't even achieve that. And that's WITH Nintendo publishing. Even super niche JP series do better than that in the States.
Huh?

Rayman is in the top-50 or so all-time selling franchises. Rayman series has sold 26 Million Units: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises

It is ahead of Devil May Cry, Tales series, Dynasty Warriors, Prince of Persia, and even Castlevania.
 

3BitSaurus

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Actually, signatures don't show up on mobile, so personally, I never noticed that and I can assume this goes for others considering how often I ended up answering people asking why their signature didn't show up on the thread
That's a good point, actually. I can get why most people wouldn't want sigs clogging their mobiles, too.

That said, I found most of my MW's threads by searching for them, and I assume at least a few people have found the LoL threads this way, so I don't think it's too much of a problem for more popular characters' threads.

Just two more weeks, hang in there everyone. :)


:4pacman:

I would have no problem with and would even invite the idea of Isaac being promoted from an AT role, so I don't think we're exactly on the same page. I just think it has a very slim chance of actually happening.
I think the only ATs with a decent chance would be Shovel Knight, Waluigi and maybe Isaac. The former because he's from a third party series that lacks a stage and songs, and could very well be included on the series' merits. The latter two because the fan demand is arguably high enough to warrant it.
 

volbound1700

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Rayman's a big deal...

HIS OG GAME IS THE BEST SELLING PLAYSTATION GAME IN EUROPE'S HISTORY
Thanks for someone actually posting with me on this one. What is funny was that I never agreed he was big in Japan, I was just pointing out Smash Ballot results. It is insane that he isn't in the game but Sakurai is very Japanese-centric so it isn't a surprised. I appreciate everything Sakurai has done but it might be good to get fresh blood in with the Smash series.
 

GilTheGreat19

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Thanks for someone actually posting with me on this one. What is funny was that I never agreed he was big in Japan, I was just pointing out Smash Ballot results. It is insane that he isn't in the game but Sakurai is very Japanese-centric so it isn't a surprised. I appreciate everything Sakurai has done but it might be good to get fresh blood in with the Smash series.
Gotchu homie.
Agree, love Sakurai, but would love more Western content in smash.

if we go get Rayman.. Can we get Brawlhalla mii costumes? 👀 👀
 

warubyun

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God, I still don't understand why people still want AT's to be promoted in the same game. Spirits? Totally fine. It's better to create a whole new model for a character who used to be a PNG than to try to Frankenstein a model that was already animated for an estabished role.
Some of us were unfortunate enough to have our most-wanteds ATed in the base game, and have been given renewed hope by every other fan rule biting the dust. For me, it's more about that than the promotion itself, though that is inevitably part of it.
 

perfectchaos83

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Link?

I agree it isn't that near as big in Japan as in the West but Rayman did merit enough to be in the top 20 in Smash Ballots pre-Ultimate based on GLOBAL results.

This is the week Rayman Legends launched on the Switch. Top 20 bottomed out at 3.8k and Rayman Legends didn't even make top 50. A Vita game sold better than a Rayman game did.

I don't see how Global position matters when you're generally talking about how he's "more well known" in Japan than meets the eye. This is what I'm disagreeing with.
 
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volbound1700

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This is the week Rayman Legends launched on the Switch. Top 30 bottomed out at 1.7k and Rayman Legends is nowhere to be seen.

I don't see how Global position matters when you're generally talking about how he's "more well known" in Japan than meets the eye. This is what I'm disagreeing with.
1. I could be wrong but I think Japan had far higher participation than other poles in Smash Ballot
2. He didn't do that bad in the Japanese Smash Ballot either. He wasn't top 20 but he was in top 30 or so (keep in mind this was pre-Ultimate and characters like Snake, Wolf, Pichu, etc. where in the ballot).

I am not sure why you have to be so hostile with your responses.
 

True Blue Warrior

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I can definitely understand why people think the last one will be more low key. People love to point to Bayo, but looking at all of the other cycles (:ultjigglypuff::ultgnw::ultwolf::ultduckhunt::ultincineroar::ultbyleth:), it's very easy to understand why it's hard to see "bigger" picks being last. If Sora or Crash happens as CP11, they happens and I'll be happy, but there's a big difference between wanting a character and seeing them as likely.
Jigglypuff’s 64 unlock conditions guarantee that she wouldn’t be the last character unlocked in that game, it would be Luigi, Ness or Captain Falcon.

And then there's of course Bayonetta, the character people often (rightfully) point toward to show the final character doesn't need to be arbitrarily underwhelming.
I mean if you are going to bring her up due to fan demand, then Wolf absolutely makes no sense being compared to the likes of the Duck Hunt Dog and Mr. Game & Watch either as he was a popular request for Brawl. Sakurai even stated that was one of the main reasons he even was selected in the first place.
 

perfectchaos83

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1. I could be wrong but I think Japan had far higher participation than other poles in Smash Ballot
We don't have any numbers for the Smash ballot other than a vague amount of participants. Exit polls mean nothing as seen with Bayonetta

2. He didn't do that bad in the Japanese Smash Ballot either. He wasn't top 20 but he was in top 30 or so (keep in mind this was pre-Ultimate and characters like Snake, Wolf, Pichu, etc. where in the ballot).
As I said above, Exit polls mean nothing. Simon was generally not shown in those results either but Sakurai specifically said he was chosen in part because of his ballot performance.

I am not sure why you have to be so hostile with your responses.
I'm stating truths. Rayman is a literal nobody in Japan and not even Nintendo publishing could save him.
 

Guynamednelson

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Jigglypuff’s 64 unlock conditions guarantee that she wouldn’t be the last character unlocked in that game, it would be Luigi, Ness or Captain Falcon.
She's being considered the "lame finale" because she's fighter no. 12 in Ultimate.
 
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volbound1700

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This is the week Rayman Legends launched on the Switch. Top 20 bottomed out at 3.8k and Rayman Legends didn't even make top 50. A Vita game sold better than a Rayman game did.

I don't see how Global position matters when you're generally talking about how he's "more well known" in Japan than meets the eye. This is what I'm disagreeing with.
Also another note, you do know that Rayman Legends was on Wii U, PS3, etc. It was an outdated game by the time it launched in Japan. Kind of like DKC Tropical Freeze.

.

BTW, there is a link that destroys your argument. Rayman Legends was hot on Wii U.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Rayman is a big deal because he is French.

However I have been in talks with Sakurai and he confirmed he couldn't add Rayman as a character because he couldn't think of a way to make a viable amiibo of the character.

Other solution is giving him a tree to hang on.
Screenshot_20210517-122013_Instagram.png

1. I could be wrong but I think Japan had far higher participation than other poles in Smash Ballot
2. He didn't do that bad in the Japanese Smash Ballot either. He wasn't top 20 but he was in top 30 or so (keep in mind this was pre-Ultimate and characters like Snake, Wolf, Pichu, etc. where in the ballot).

I am not sure why you have to be so hostile with your responses.
Where are you getting these results? The ballot results were never shown so you being able to say Rayman scored high on it and specify he did well with Japan sounds completely made up. I'd like your sources on that
 

ahemtoday

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For the inevitable next Smash game (which will be a long time from now), I'd want a roster that evokes the same kind of aura as Brawl's roster. Everyone in that game felt like they should be there to some degree. Of course, I plan on adding some newcomers to freshen things up (a mix of fan-favorite picks and some unconventional ones), but I feel like Brawl's roster would be a good base to start things on:

Returning:
  1. Mario
  2. Donkey Kong
  3. Link
  4. Samus
  5. Yoshi
  6. Kirby
  7. Fox
  8. Pikachu
  9. Luigi
  10. Ness
  11. Captain Falcon
  12. Jigglypuff
  13. Peach
  14. Bowser
  15. Zelda/Sheik
  16. Falco
  17. Marth
  18. Ganondorf
  19. Mewtwo
  20. Mr. Game and Watch
  21. Meta Knight
  22. Pit
  23. Wario
  24. Ike
  25. Charizard
  26. Diddy Kong
  27. Sonic
  28. King Dedede
  29. Olimar
  30. Lucario
  31. R.O.B.
  32. Villager
  33. Mega Man
  34. Little Mac
  35. Pac-Man
  36. Robin
  37. Shulk
  38. Inkling
  39. Ridley
  40. Simon
  41. King K. Rool
  42. Byleth
  43. Min Min
New:
  1. Waluigi
  2. Skull Kid
  3. Bandanna Waddle Dee
  4. Isaac
  5. Retro Character (Balloon Fighter, Takamaru, or Donkey Kong Jr. come to mind)
  6. Ryu Hayabusa
  7. Rayman
  1. Dark Samus
  2. Daisy
  3. Ice Climbers
  4. Dr. Mario
  5. Pichu
  6. Lucina
  7. Young Link
  8. Roy
  9. Chrom
  10. Dark Pit
  11. Zero Suit Samus
  12. Snake
  13. Squirtle
  14. Ivysaur
  15. Lucas
  16. Toon Link
  17. Wolf
  18. Wii Fit Trainer
  19. Rosalina and Luma
  20. Greninja
  21. Mii Brawler
  22. Mii Swordfighter
  23. Mii Gunner
  24. Palutena
  25. Bowser Jr.
  26. Duck Hunt
  27. Ryu
  28. Ken
  29. Cloud
  30. Corrin
  31. Bayonetta
  32. Richter
  33. Isabelle
  34. Incineroar
  35. Piranha Plant
  36. Joker
  37. Hero
  38. Banjo and Kazooie
  39. Terry
  40. Steve
  41. Sephiroth
  42. Pyra/Mythra
Of course, this was a hard list to choose from. Bolded characters are ones I think would work as small DLC with minimal moveset changes from Ultimate.

  • Any character that has appeared in at least four out of the five Smash Bros games stays
  • Clones are kept to an absolute minimum (any clone that doesn't fit the above criteria is cut)
  • A decent amount of characters get a moveset overhaul, namely the ones that seem to need it most
    • From Smash 64:
      • The majority of the cast gets some sort of significant moveset change (Everyone except Fox, Ness, Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, and maybe Link)
    • From Melee:
      • Sheik is now a part of Zelda again. They should hopefully be balanced better to give a reason to use both characters in a fight, unlike Melee.
      • Ganondorf is completely decloned
    • From Brawl
      • Wario gets some changes to his moveset to reference the Wario Land titles more
      • Charizard flies solo again and gains some changes to his moveset to compensate
      • Sonic gets a moveset overhaul
      • Lucario's aura mechanic is rethought
    • From Smash 4
      • Little Mac gets a moveset overhaul
    • From Ultimate
      • Very few changes are needed here
  • Custom moves return, but there is only one additional variation per move so they are a bit easier to balance. I feel that Delzethin's videos on potential custom moves cover what I would like to see from them this time around.
  • The scaled-back roster will give the development team an opportunity to rethink how some of the returning characters are implemented into the game and freshen them up for the modern era.

Excuse my diatribe, but I wanted to put my own thoughts out on the topic.
This is... reasonable, but if this was the actual game we got, I think I would be fairly underwhelmed.
  • Not a fan of keeping Sheik. I think Sheik is easily one of the most expendable unique characters we have, so her not only sticking around but getting stapled to Zelda again is less than ideal.
  • I'm also not into the idea of bringing custom moves back. Even if they're more balanced than before, I just really dislike having to choose what my character can do. At least they're not entirely unique moves like basically everyone suggests. That'd be even worse...
  • The most important thing is that... This game's got seven unique newcomers in it. That's barely any more than Ultimate had. It has basically the same drawback as Everyone is Here, but not everyone is. It's the worst of both worlds. It's the same problem Marvel Infinite had, where its roster had, like, four new characters at launch. The characters are good choices, but I don't see what's supposed to excite me about this new game.
 

SuperSmashStephen

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If you had to put money on, who do you honestly believe in your heart of hearts, will be revealed at E3.

You can choose give answers for CP10 or CP10 & CP11 if you think we are getting a double reveal.
 

volbound1700

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Louie G.

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I mean if you are going to bring her up due to fan demand, then Wolf absolutely makes no sense being compared to the likes of the Duck Hunt Dog and Mr. Game & Watch either as he was a popular request for Brawl. Sakurai even stated that was one of the main reasons he even was selected in the first place.
I don't believe Wolf is an underwhelming finale either. I mean hell, he's kind of cheating anyway since he was unlockable and wasn't formally revealed until after the game released.

The better example would be Olimar, who was also popular (or expected?) in his own right and even then I don't think Brawl is a proper metric for how character reveals are handled for Ultimate, because Ultimate continues a trend established moreso through Smash 4 with big character trailers and more show-y reveals rather than website information dumps (love me the Smash DOJO though).

To expand on that, Shulk was the last major reveal prior to Smash 4's base game too... but then we got Mewtwo revealed as DLC soon before release, which was also an insanely exciting reveal and his return was highly speculated and requested for the whole speculation cycle. It's all a matter of perspective I guess. I personally think it's insincere to suggest characters like G&W and Wolf even had the liberty to be proper "reveals" in their respective games and kind of ignores a lot of context and changes in the structure of Smash reveals / hype moving forward.

Honestly, if we're being real, from Smash 4 onward it was more like:
4 Pre-release: Mewtwo
4 DLC: Bayonetta
Ult Pre-release: Piranha Plant (technically Joker LOL)
Ult DLC: Who knows

The buffer between DLC was pretty damn slim between them both, wasting no time to tell us more was coming, so Shulk / Incineroar were hardly the end of those hype cycles even if they were the last characters formally revealed who were actually available in base game. Didn't include Byleth either because again, we already knew more DLC was coming.
 
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perfectchaos83

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Also another note, you do know that Rayman Legends was on Wii U, PS3, etc. It was an outdated game by the time it launched in Japan. Kind of like DKC Tropical Freeze.
It got 45th. Top 20 bottomed out at 3.8k as well. Mario Kart Wii outsold it and the game was 5 years old at that point.

 

Rie Sonomura

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If you had to put money on, who do you honestly believe in your heart of hearts, will be revealed at E3.

You can choose give answers for CP10 or CP10 & CP11 if you think we are getting a double reveal.
If CP10 only: Crash or a League character
CP10 and CP11 in full: any two of a lowkey (Ayumi, Octoling, Reimu, literally anyone else viable) and highkey (Crash, LoL, MC)
CP10 in full but CP11 teased only: CP10 will be a lowkey. CP11 might be high key as it’ll be shown in the final presentation
 

volbound1700

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It got 45th. Top 20 bottomed out at 3.8k as well. Mario Kart Wii outsold it and the game was 5 years old at that point.

Mario Kart outsales ALOT of stuff on Nintendo console. Also keep in mind that Rayman has historically does better on Sony systems. What was its Playstation sales?
 

perfectchaos83

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Also another note, you do know that Rayman Legends was on Wii U, PS3, etc. It was an outdated game by the time it launched in Japan. Kind of like DKC Tropical Freeze.

.

BTW, there is a link that destroys your argument. Rayman Legends was hot on Wii U.
I'm not sure how "Under 1.5k sales" = hot. But you do you.

That's typically considered a failure by most big time publishers
 

ahemtoday

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If you had to put money on, who do you honestly believe in your heart of hearts, will be revealed at E3.

You can choose give answers for CP10 or CP10 & CP11 if you think we are getting a double reveal.
I've said it before: Reimu and Master Chief.

It is called Google. Use it: https://www.google.com/search?sourc...gQIBRAB&biw=1576&bih=757#imgrc=rk8TrSsADpqZeM

Sorry, I am kind of running out of patient here. Not in the mood for drama from people on here.
That's a ballot run by fans, not the official ballot that people are talking about when they say "the ballot".
 

Cutie Gwen

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GilTheGreat19

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When it comes down to, say, Crash vs Rayman, honestly, I think Crash would be a better move business-wise.

Dude's got a bigger Japanese presence than Rayman, is currently more relevant outside of Smash.
Also, remember that one "icons" commercial Nintendo uploaded on YT or something, featuring Crash and Spyro in that video out of nowhere?



Also, please remember that Nintendo NEVER shared the official ballot results with the public.
Fan polls aren't accurate enough to go off of 100%.
 
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MBRedboy31

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Jigglypuff’s 64 unlock conditions guarantee that she wouldn’t be the last character unlocked in that game, it would be Luigi, Ness or Captain Falcon.
For the record, it actually is possible, albeit unlikely, to unlock Jigglypuff last. Jigglypuff has the easiest unlock conditions out of the 3 characters unlocked from 1P Game (you only have to beat it to unlock Jigglypuff, while Falcon and Ness have additional requirements.) However, if you achieve the requirements for Falcon and/or Ness on your first time playing 1P Game, they will take priority over Jigglypuff.
 

Technomage

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If you had to put money on, who do you honestly believe in your heart of hearts, will be revealed at E3.

You can choose give answers for CP10 or CP10 & CP11 if you think we are getting a double reveal.
BotW2 character (whether it be Wild Zelda or Mummy Ganondorf/Demise)
Either Crash Bandicoot or Mster Chief
 
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