Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SneakyLink]

What does it mean to be under the "pinacle" section?

Also, you spelt Blinx wrong.

For context, the E3 site lists Nintendo and Xbox under “pinnacle” for the sponsor list.

 

[Schnee117]

https://twitter.com/eclipse_tt/status/1399371388868345859

Master Chief!?

That has nothing to do with Smash, it's just that Nintendo and Microsoft have the biggest, most attractive showcases so they're the pinnacle of the event.

 

[Nekoo]

Pretty sure Nintendo, Microsoft and once upon a time Sony were the "pinnacle" of sponsorrs for E3 as being consoles manufacturers.

 

[Eldrake]

https://twitter.com/eclipse_tt/status/1399371388868345859

Master Chief!?

No Patrick, it's not a Smash hint.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

So I was thinking about potential Ubisoft reps... (other than Rayman)

Prince of Persia, anyone?

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

No Patrick, it's not a Smash hint.

It's not a hint to the Master Chief Collection being on Switch either.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So I was thinking about potential Ubisoft reps... (other than Rayman)

Prince of Persia, anyone?

You know, Ezio is the more popular Assassin’s Creed protag in Japan and it was Altaïr that got Mii’d...

 

[GilTheGreat19]

You know, Ezio is the more popular Assassin’s Creed protag in Japan and it was Altaïr that got Mii’d...

Ezio would make for a good left field E3 reveal..

Also, Assassin's Creed is a great series, liked the movie too.

If Rayman didn't get in cuz of someone like him I wouldn't mind.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

https://twitter.com/eclipse_tt/status/1399371388868345859

Master Chief!?

Yeah! Master Chief is on Xbox. Can you believe that?

 

[Dukefire]

Idea from a dream last night.

E3 was playing with a concert held first. After it ended, the next character was being revealed. It WAS hinting at goku with posters of his face darkened, when the real challenger was no other then Kaos from Skylanders.

Crazy, but just a scernario my mind whipped up as E3 arriving soon.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Idea from a dream last night.

E3 was playing with a concert held first. After it ended, the next character was being revealed. It WAS hinting at goku with posters of his face darkened, when the real challenger was no other then Kaos from Skylanders.

Crazy, but just a scernario my mind whipped up as E3 arriving soon.

We could use more villains

 

[Schnee117]

Yeah! Master Chief is on Xbox. Can you believe that?

Next you'll tell me Mario is on Nintendo, smh

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yeah! Master Chief is on Xbox. Can you believe that?

And he's playable in a Switch game that features characters from Mario and Banjo-Kazooie, that also featured Fallout DLC for whatever reason.

That game being...Minecraft. Just Minecraft.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Synchronize your death watches, in two weeks we might possibly see the end of speculation for this game.

Double reveal all the way

 

[Brother AJ]

Cutting 3rd parties is definitely the hardest aspect for me... Losing any of the Brawl and Smash 4 characters would just feel horrendous as they're all huge and historical gaming icons (except Bayonetta, but she's probably not going anywhere).



For Ultimate I really want to keep the Belmonts and Microsoft characters. The hardest cut is DQ, but ultimately I just think Final Fantasy and Cloud are more iconic.



Even this scenario is probably unlikely, but honestly losing anyone else would feel really wrong to me. I'll probably need to start bracing myself for disappointment, and enjoy Ultimate in the meantime.

 

[Houndstooth]

Synchronize your death watches, in two weeks we might possibly see the end of speculation for this game.

Double reveal all the way

End the suffering! ... I mean hype...

 

[MooMew64]

Double reveal is possible. To my knowledge, Smash Bros. at E3 has never had just one character reveal: There has always been at least two.

But then again, Nintendo knows dang well they can get everyone and their brother to stop whatever they're doing and come watch a presentation because they said the two funny words "Smash character". It's the freest marketing in the world, and I don't know if they want to give it up just yet when they can push the inevitable September Direct with "Yo, Smash Bros. gonna be here, watch nerds".

I think I'm in a solid 50/50 camp. I don't think either scenario has anything going more for it than the other, so we kinda just have to wait it out.

Gonna be wild if this is all truly ending in two weeks, though.

On the one hand, what the heck, it's been 3 years already!?

On the other...Sweet release.

 

[chocolatejr9]

End the suffering! ... I mean hype...

No, you can say suffering. That's pretty much what it is at this point.

 

[SNEKeater]

how many times do i have to teach you this lesson old man

Sometimes I feel like I'd be willing to pay money for a Crash/Master Chief double reveal at E3 only to see your reaction

 

[Dukefire]

Yeah, get ready for the end. Honestly, a part of me just wanted this crazy ride over.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I’m not sure what the whole show-bang with “final characters won’t be hype” is about. Cloud was quite late in Smash 4’s DLC run as well (only succeeded by ballot winner Bayo and recency-based pick Corrin. Even if two DLC cycles a pattern makes, I don’t see how we can’t end with someone hype. Statistically, it‘s likely we won’t get two frontrunners (because of the known and discussed problem of there only being like five frontrunners out of the bazillions of characters) but this almost pompous anticipation for a lame first party is off-putttng (though of course, hype responsibly)

 

[Guynamednelson]

Sometimes I feel like I'd be willing to pay money for a Crash/Master Chief double reveal at E3 only to see your reaction

You have hundreds of millions of dollars and THAT is how you'd want to spend it?

I’m not sure what the whole show-bang with “final characters won’t be hype” is about. Cloud was quite late in Smash 4’s DLC run as well (only succeeded by ballot winner Bayo and recency-based pick Corrin. Even if two DLC cycles a pattern makes, I don’t see how we can’t end with someone hype. Statistically, it‘s likely we won’t get two frontrunners (because of the known and discussed problem of there only being like five frontrunners out of the bazillions of characters) but this almost pompous anticipation for a lame first party is off-putttng (though of course, hype responsibly)

The biggest problem with "maybe we won't get a lame finale this time?" is that we already tried believing that with Ultimate's base game and FP1. The Grinch Leak and assuming DMC3 Switch port news would be about Dante in Smash are no different from assuming Master Chief could Finish the Fight™ .

 

[WeirdChillFever]

You have hundreds of millions of dollars and THAT is how you'd want to spend it?

The biggest problem with "maybe we won't get a lame finale this time?" is that we already tried believing that with Ultimate's base game and FP1. The Grinch Leak and assuming DMC3 Switch port news would be about Dante in Smash are no different from assuming Master Chief could Finish the Fight™ .

I still don’t see how a pattern of two, one of which being unduly influenced by several types of leaks, ensures that it is locked in that the final character must under all circumstances not be hype, especially if we’re anticipating a dual reveal. I can obviously see myself being wrong and I am in fact predicting a first party as CP11 but the certainty that it has been thrown around that “hype is never at the end” is based on flawed patterns that disregard various variables. (Such as base games up until Ultimate having unlockable characters and DLC being a comparatively new phenomenon)

 

[chocolatejr9]

I still don’t see how a pattern of two, one of which being unduly influenced by several types of leaks, ensures that it is locked in that the final character must under all circumstances not be hype, especially if we’re anticipating a dual reveal. I can obviously see myself being wrong and I am in fact predicting a first party as CP11 but the certainty that it has been thrown around that “hype is never at the end” is based on flawed patterns that disregard various variables. (Such as base games up until Ultimate having unlockable characters and DLC being a comparatively new phenomenon)

I thought we established every game ended on a low note?

 

[Guynamednelson]

but the certainty that it has been thrown around that “hype is never at the end” is based on flawed patterns that disregard various variables

The certainty that the final character would be as expensive as earlier ones is based on desire and nothing else. Bayonetta might be "proof" that finales aren't lame, but she would be cheaper than Ryu and Cloud. Byleth doesn't require the same licensing fees as the four third-parties in FP1. Incineroar didn't have a stage made for it. People wanted the ESRB leak to be fake because of the characters it included, some of which were clones and a character that was this close to being cut, and even then he kinda feels incomplete. Wolf was initially hated, and being able to reuse Fox assets was why he got in.

And yes, I know what you addressed wasn't the cost of the fighters, but hype and cost can be usually connected. Steve and Sephiroth are two major hype bombs in FP2, and guess what? They'd be ****ing expensive.

 

[Dukefire]

Problem is that hype and speculation makes our expectations clouded. It can even lead to disappointment on different levels. So, best to get in with little to no expectations.

 

[Schnee117]

The biggest problem with "maybe we won't get a lame finale this time?" is that we already tried believing that with Ultimate's base game and FP1. The Grinch Leak and assuming DMC3 Switch port news would be about Dante in Smash are no different from assuming Master Chief could Finish the Fight™ .

The biggest problem is that actually you're downplaying the characters YOU want to see and simultaneously being a complete and utter asshole to anyone that entertains a character that doesn't "fit" that idea in your eyes.

The other problem here is you're attributing extraneous circumstances to Incineroar and Ken as well as likening people being foolish enough to believe a blatantly fake leak and people being foolish enough to think news of a port was tied into a Smash announcement to people simply hoping that Chief could finish the fight because it's a fitting tagline.

The certainty that the final character would be as expensive as earlier ones is based on desire and nothing else.

How dare people desire characters they want to see.

 

[Guynamednelson]

The biggest problem is that actually you're downplaying the characters YOU want to see

Well what the **** else am I supposed to do when people refuse to expect anyone smaller than Sephiroth? Do the "lol that sakurai is so unpredictable amiright?" meme?

 

[Technomage]

Here's my take on the Smash 6 cuts discussion: A forum game. If you had to cut half of Ultimate's roster (well about half, since it'd be either 44 or 45), who would you cut? My cuts would be:

1) Princess Daisy
2) Piranha Plant
3) King K. Rool
4) Sheik
5) Young Link
6) Zero Suit Samus
7) Dark Samus
8) Meta Knight
9) Falco Lombardi
10) Jigglypuff
11) Pichu
12) Squirtle
13) Ivysaur
14) Greninja
15) Incineroar
16) Either Ness or Lucas
17) Roy
18) Chrom
19) Corrin
20) Byleth Eisner
21) Dark Pit
22) R.O.B.
23) Wii Fit Trainer
24) Little Mac
25) Solid Snake
26) Ken Masters
27) Sephiroth
28) Isabelle
29) Either Simon or Richter Belmont
30) Joker
31) Wolf O'Donnell
32) Banjo-Kazooie
33) Terry Bogard
34) Pyra
35) Mythra
36) Palutena
37) Toon Link
38) Duck Hunt
39) Dr. Mario
40) Hero
41) Diddy Kong
42) Ike
43) Rosalina and Luma
44) Bowser Jr.

 

[PK Duststorm]

Reading a lot of y'alls posts and whatnot, really leaves me feeling that some of yall dont even like the game, let alone play it. Its healthy though to hear criticisms and other opinions.

On one hand it's still awesome to see the different people Smash brings together, on the other I'm just left confused. I love this franchise and especially this game, faults, missed opportunities, and all.

Every single character i have come to form a strong opinion on in some shape or form. That comes with grinding every single character to elite smash over the course of a few months (I have like 7 left!)

I dont think any of the "finales" have been dissatisfying. I still have to learn how to play as Bayonetta but I love the heel turn of her whole situation. Used to be boo'd and now she's the underdog. Incineroar and Ken had one of the best ultimate cycle reveals and I personally adore Incineroar. Litten was my first partner in Gen 7 so I adored him before smash, and his gameplay style in Ultimate has made me fall deeper in love. Byleth has had to grow the most on me, yet much like Corrin, they've grown on me to such a point that I'd much rather keep them and Robin; cut everyone else. Even if we've already plateaued, theres still 2 challenger packs I prepaid for to enjoy and be hype over.

I'm still excited to see how this plays out. I'm ready for the next reveal. Speculation is wide open, just root for your favorites. I wouldnt know of Falcom as a whole, Timesplitters, and a good handful of other miscellaneous games if it werent for their fans expressing it. Smash lifts all games up.

But yeah crash and Agumon pls thx.

 

[DanganZilla5]

I’m not sure what the whole show-bang with “final characters won’t be hype” is about. Cloud was quite late in Smash 4’s DLC run as well (only succeeded by ballot winner Bayo and recency-based pick Corrin. Even if two DLC cycles a pattern makes, I don’t see how we can’t end with someone hype. Statistically, it‘s likely we won’t get two frontrunners (because of the known and discussed problem of there only being like five frontrunners out of the bazillions of characters) but this almost pompous anticipation for a lame first party is off-putttng (though of course, hype responsibly)

It mostly stems from how badly people got burned by the base roster and by Byleth. I think people have gradually turned more cynical, I know I have because I don't want to get burned again. I believed the Grinch Leak and I really thought Doomguy was FP5 because people were inspecting the area around Sakurai in the preview tweet for the presentation and people saw orange which was from Byleth's sword but I really thought it was from Doomguy's armor. Just mistakes like those have taught me to be more cautiously optimistic.

And another thing is that it just makes business sense to put all the hype characters anywhere but the very last spot. I do believe that Crash will be next because Nintendo planned this pass out two years in advanced. But as for the last spot? No. It makes much more sense to have characters like Steve, Sephiroth, and Crash in the beginning and even in the middle but not at the very end because at that point Nintendo got the majority of the sales that the pass was going to get in so at that point they could throw in a shill pick if they wanted to. They wouldn't care, they already got the positive press and sales from earlier characters. So if they wanted to throw in Ayumi for example, they can do that. Characters like Crash and Master Chief are just too big of a deal to save for the very last, even if I would love for this game to end on a high note but keep in mind Smash reveals have historically ended on a lesser note. That has been the case even before Smash 4 and Ultimate like with Brawl revealing characters like R.O.B and Wolf at the end.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I dont think any of the "finales" have been dissatisfying.

It's extremely difficult to describe how later reveals are because of this. I can't say "less hype" because "well I liked this finale", and I can't say "less expensive" because there are people here who want to believe Nintendo would spend all their money on Smash and nothing else.

 

[Schnee117]

Well what the **** else am I supposed to do when people refuse to expect anyone smaller than Sephiroth? Do the "lol that sakurai is so unpredictable amiright?" meme?

Actually sell people on the characters you want to see so people will be excited for them instead of going "Oh yeah they'd be disappointing therefore they're likely to happen" which just turns people away or throwing yet ANOTHER tantrum because people aren't expecting who you expect.

Grow the **** up already.

 

[Megadoomer]

I’m not sure what the whole show-bang with “final characters won’t be hype” is about. Cloud was quite late in Smash 4’s DLC run as well (only succeeded by ballot winner Bayo and recency-based pick Corrin. Even if two DLC cycles a pattern makes, I don’t see how we can’t end with someone hype. Statistically, it‘s likely we won’t get two frontrunners (because of the known and discussed problem of there only being like five frontrunners out of the bazillions of characters) but this almost pompous anticipation for a lame first party is off-putttng (though of course, hype responsibly)

I guess it's because a lot of the games/DLC have ended on a relatively "low" note.

Not sure who the N64 game's last reveal was - I'd guess Ness, since I believe he's toughest to unlock, but I don't think the original site acted like a blog (unless the Japanese site was different).

The last Melee reveal was, from what I recall, Mr. Game & Watch (he's the last character that you unlock), which was probably an example of a character where people would literally respond to with "who?" (I know that the Game & Watch galleries on the Game Boy were a thing, but I don't think people would expect an amalgamation of 20+ unrelated Game & Watch games to be the final character)

Brawl's reveals ended with either Wolf or ROB. I think the last few characters wound up getting leaked, and they were met with disbelief, to say the least.

The last base game reveal for Smash 4 was the dog from Duck Hunt, or Dark Pit considering that he didn't get his own trailer and we didn't even know that he was playable until the 3DS version came out. The last Smash 4 DLC reveal was Bayonetta, though the Smash Ballot muddies that up a bit. (the last one fully picked by Nintendo/the developers was Corrin)

Then for Smash Ultimate, the base game ended off with Ken and Incineroar, while the first season pass ended off with Byleth.

All of these characters have their fans, to be sure, and plenty of people wanted to see them (I voted for Bayonetta in the Smash Ballot, and I think that when the concept of echo fighters was announced, a lot of people expected that we'd get Ken), but compared to the likes of Bowser, Sonic, Mega Man, Cloud, Ridley/K. Rool, and Banjo (among others), they weren't the highest points of their respective groups. (Bayonetta was extremely exciting for me, but I can see how people not familiar with the franchise might view her as a disappointing pick after Cloud and Ryu - I can't recall what kind of reaction she got for her inclusion, since most of the complaints that I recall were about her gameplay)

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I feel like no matter what, any character is inevitably gonna be seen as a "low note" due to how incredibly high peoples expectations are. Even if we do get someone huge like Crash or Dante or whatever, people will likely find some way to tear them apart because they aren't 100% "How they wanted them to be".

It's inevitable. I just judge a character based off how they play. I actually didn't mind Byleth when they were announced and IMO is one of the better Fire Emblem reps we had because they aren't a Marth echo or semi-clone, thankfully and show more weapons beyond the sword.

It's also why I keep an open mind with reps and find it funny when people make hypothetical passes of nothing but the biggest of big names back to back. To me that is a bit unrealistic in of itself. But I still think one or even both characters are either ones people have written off or people claim are "too small" to get into the game. I know I may be wrong but it can possibly happen.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Actually sell people on the characters you want to see so people will be excited for them instead of going "Oh yeah they'd be disappointing therefore they're likely to happen" which just turns people away or throwing yet ANOTHER tantrum because people aren't expecting who you expect.

Grow the **** up already.

Actually, SharkLord started a whole thread for that...

 

[MooMew64]

Speaking as probably the #1 Cinderace guy here, yeah, peeps would be mad. Pokemon ain't in good graces with people at the moment, and a Pokemon is viewed as a doomsday scenario by the Smash community.

However...Why not just...Respect each other's opinions? And also not take these opinions and takes about video games so personally? Like, real talk: If people get mad at a character you like, just laugh it off and realize it ain't important. It really isn't. If you like the character, and they bring you joy...Why does it matter if it's the same for the other person?

Don't get me wrong, if Cinderace makes it in, I'll definitely find the expected salt hilarious, but I'm also not gonna be antagonistic towards people. Heck, I'd rather talk about why I think they'd be cool:

- Cool moveset potential behind an anime as heck rabbit that shoots giant flaming soccer balls.

- Speedy character, which is always a blast to play.

- Adorable as heck.

I could go on and in much more detail, but ya get what I mean.

TL;DR: Stop gettin' upset at other people's Smash opinions. Coming from someone that let the Byleth hate get under their skin: It ain't healthy, it'll make you miserable, and quite possibly, ruin the game for you. Just...Learn to let things go.

 

[Noipoi]

However...Why not just...Respect each other's opinions?

In the smash fanbase?...

 

[Schnee117]

Actually, SharkLord started a whole thread for that...

I'm aware but there's also no reason not to do so here because I sincerely doubt a fair amount of people here have even lurked that thread. Especially with it operating on an RTC style format of nominations so one's preferred choices might not be up for a while, it'd actually provide a post to copy/paste should the time come actually.

 

[volbound1700]

Cutting 3rd parties is definitely the hardest aspect for me... Losing any of the Brawl and Smash 4 characters would just feel horrendous as they're all huge and historical gaming icons (except Bayonetta, but she's probably not going anywhere).



For Ultimate I really want to keep the Belmonts and Microsoft characters. The hardest cut is DQ, but ultimately I just think Final Fantasy and Cloud are more iconic.



Even this scenario is probably unlikely, but honestly losing anyone else would feel really wrong to me. I'll probably need to start bracing myself for disappointment, and enjoy Ultimate in the meantime.

The sad thing is that the Microsoft Characters would be the least likely to return followed by Square-Enix who always seems to be difficult to deal with (although they have been great working with Sakurai). I don't see Capcom, Namco, or Sega pulling their reps. I think those three like having their IP in Smash for name recognition. Konami is a mystery. I think Snake was pulled from 4 because of the situation with his developer leaving Konami and the bad blood. Although Snake is a great add, I felt like Simon Belmont is an even better fit for Smash than Snake.

I still cannot believe that Rayman and Ryu Hayabusa have NOT made it in. Both Komei-Tecmo and Ubisoft are very active on Nintendo consoles and both characters just make too much sense for Smash. Rayman has been in the top 25 in most Smash Ballots pre-Ultimate (more than half the characters in front of him have been added to Smash to date).