Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Nekoo]

I'm going to throw out that "leak" for the only basis that no pass were planned beside FP1 at the time, the success for FP1 is what lead to FP2 and the legal discussion for Steve started since 2015... but I'm pretty sure that it was when negociating for the FP2 that those years of waiting finally came to fruition.

I don't see Steve at all being worked, then scraped or "disappearing" like that.

 

[Flyboy]

No one is saying the negotiations talk is definitive, just that it provides a really interesting peek into the plans that seem to be backed up so far by other sources.

My personal opinion is that the Bandai-Namco costumes only appearing until wave 2 is a negative for Bamco's chances as they were plausibly being held back until a Bamco fighter, but we genuinely have no clue at all. Just something to keep in mind that Tales Of may see SOME kind of representation in Smash before this is all over.

Another interesting thing is that Bamco officially extended the Tales Of anniversary into next year, because of this year being obviously a bit strange. Wonder if that will line up with anything? Who knows?

Excellent write-up SharkLord .

 

[Guybrush20X6]

The only characters to not have "classic" Mii costumes so far are Hero, Hero, Hero and Hero.

Theoretically we could get one each for the last fighters but I feel they'd want to group the two Monster Hunter costumes together.

 

[cashregister9]

Then instead we end up with Palicos coming with Monster Hunter Miis.

Sakurai and Nintendo surprise us once again.

Seriously I could see this happening. Especially Sakurai's love for cats and not out of the realm of possibility he convinced Nintendo given how popular they are given their cuteness.

Adding palico's would be like adding Slimes or Chocobos, I guess it would work but it would not represent the games that well, You never Play as a Felyne or Palico as far as i'm aware except in like Felyne Village. In conclusion to my thoughts, not impossible but a main hunter would just be better all around gameplay representation.

And I don't think they will add a character based solely on shock value (anymore)

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Gonna drop some translated quotes from the leak for context:

Spoiler: Chun Leak text samples

"I don't know, Chun-Li was there, but somehow replaced with Ken. Bamco had both Symphonia and Vesperia protagonists in the planning stages, but they're not here as well."
"I'm pretty sure they were developing Erdrick, and the default guy(?) from Minecraft was there too, with his actual working model, as one of the thrid party reps. But he's gone too idk."
"There was also Sephiroth and the Mii character from Super Mario RPG, but Sephiroth ended up conceding the spot to DQ, and the Mii one was in a very sensitive position, so it was dropped."

Reading it, the idea is that the leaker knew about Hero 100%, was confused about Steve being developed but not in the released game, and thought Sephiroth was dropped in favor of Hero as that was higher priority for Square. The quote about Chun Li is that the leaker thinks she was dropped for Ken, possibly due to time constraints. Having both Lloyd and Yuri there seems to be Bamco just slotting in "Tales rep" and tabling it for the time being. There are definitely similarities in wording between Tales and Sephiroth, so the idea is that the Tales rep being "not here" is going to end up like how Sephiroth didn't end up in the game until FP2. Without more context on Chun Li though we don't know if she would even be revisited since she was replaced by Ken, but the possibility remains.

I think that was one of xenother 's sources that heard that.

I would be somewhat happy because Smash recognized them at the very least.

Also the Chun Li leak sounds pretty fake especially seeing the part where Chun Li was dropped for Ken.

There is no way Chun-Li could be a Echo of Ryu as she is completely different. The only way she would have gotten in base game if they made her unique.

 

[Flyboy]

I'm going to throw out that "leak" for the only basis that no pass were planned beside FP1 at the time, the success for FP1 is what lead to FP2 and the legal discussion for Steve started since 2015... but I'm pretty sure that it was when negociating for the FP2 that those years of waiting finally came to fruition.

I don't see Steve at all being worked, then scraped or "disappearing" like that.

Once again, I think you're misinterpreting the intent here. The idea isn't "these characters were planned for FP2 period", more "these characters were put on the back burner due to implementing Everyone is Here and now that they greenlit Pass 2 they're going back to the well of things that were considered but scrapped."

It's not too farfetched to look at the lack of FF7 or Arms content and see that gaps were left just in case.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

isn't Xenother the guy who said something about Katalina from Granblue getting in or am I thinking of someone else

 

[Wunderwaft]

Part of what makes me doubt we're getting the characters in that 5ch leak is that we don't know how far they were considered. Were Chun-Li and Lloyd considered in the early project plan and then scrapped like the chorus kids or were they saved for later?

If we're looking at what we got in the game I'm inclined to believe the former. Ken got in as a playable fighter, presumably as a replacement of Chun-Li. But why is that? Frankly I don't know and we could be here all day to speculate why. But the bottom line is that if the leak is real then Chun-Li was replaced in the end, granted she could still make it in as DLC but I doubt it. As for Tales, the out of place drops of the Namco mii costumes in Pass 2 makes me doubt the prospect of a Namco fighter in general, we saw with the SE pack that they saved the mii costumes for it, if Namco was in I reckon they would've done the same thing here.

My personal theory is that when Pass 2 was green lit they held back on dropping the Namco mii costumes in pass 1 since some Namco fighters were in consideration. Then when Pass 2 was finalized and no Namco fighter was chosen they decided to drop these costumes they were saving unceremoniously in different unrelated packs.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

isn't Xenother the guy who said something about Katalina from Granblue getting in or am I thinking of someone else

You're thinking of Hitagi who was close to Vergeben.

 

[Guynamednelson]

And I don't think they will add a character based solely on shock value (anymore)

Slime being Dragon Quest's plan B wasn't even based on shock value. It was to get a franchise mascot to be the fighter if the protagonists were unavailable, nothing else.

 

[cashregister9]

Slime being Dragon Quest's plan B wasn't even based on shock value. It was to get a franchise mascot to be the fighter if the protagonists were unavailable, nothing else.

I wasn't saying the slime would be shock value I was responding to his statement about how Palicos would be added because it would be a surprise.

Palicos don't even have the mascot slot, Rathalos has taken that.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I will say the one plus Chun-Li still has going for her is there being no Street Fighter costumes yet which is a little suspicious. But they could be saving those for another Capcom rep like Dante or Phoenix Wright instead of Chun-Li.

 

[SharkLord]

There is no way Chun-Li could be a Echo of Ryu as she is completely different. The only way she would have gotten in base game if they made her unique.

I think that's the reason she was dropped. We only got eleven newcomers and five of them are Echoes (Granted, Ken's basically a semiclone, but still). I'd imagine SSBU's focus on old content put a squeeze on the newcomers, so why spend time trying to make another complex fighter from scratch when you can just use the OG moveset clone instead?

 

[PacificFun]

I really feel like Monster Hunter could be possible due to the characters chosen in FP2. And with Rise being exclusive to Switch, they're going to want to push it. And unlike say Bravely Defualt 2, its a really major game.

I could see Monster Hunter being the last FP2 character.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I think that's the reason she was dropped. We only got eleven newcomers and five of them are Echoes (Granted, Ken's basically a semiclone, but still). I'd imagine SSBU's focus on old content put a squeeze on the newcomers, so why spend time trying to make another complex fighter from scratch when you can just use the OG moveset clone instead?

The situation with Chun-Li is a little similar to the situation with Heihachi in Smash 4 as Sakurai considered him but ditched mostly because of his moveset being too complex:

“My First Conception is My Landmark,” Sakurai’s Famitsu column vol. 456

Note: Do not repost the full translation. Please use the first two paragraphs and link to this translation. For additional information, please read this post. This translation is for fan use only, …

sourcegaming.info

nevermind delet this

No we didn't.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

hold on

didn't one of Lloyd's VOs say something about a voice role NDA?

now while I doubt it's directly connected to Smash, I'd like to see it again anyway

 

[RetrogamerMax]

hold on

didn't one of Lloyd's VOs say something about a voice role NDA?

now while I doubt it's directly connected to Smash, I'd like to see it again anyway

I don't remember. But when you're under a NDA you can lie as HMK said.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I have to say, having Smash characters to look forward to and discuss is a nice point of consistency to have in life, especially in these times where the virus mutated and now the UK's on super lockdown.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I have to say, having Smash characters to look forward to and discuss is a nice point of consistency to have in life, especially in these times where the virus mutated and now the UK's on super lockdown.

the what

ah ****

 

[Slime Master]

Worth noting since it's relevant to the Chun-Leak: I could have sworn there was official confirmation that Hero was intended for base game, and I'm not the only one who believes that, but after being pressed on it last time I brought it up I did some research and found it's not that cut-and-dry. It seems Sakurai did make some vague speculative comments about if Hero had been in the base game, and I think that might have triggered a rather extreme Mandela effect.

Mind you, I still think that would line up nicely with the fact that Vergeben knew about a squenix rep since forever, but I don't think we can treat it as fact.

 

[SharkLord]

the what

ah ****

ah yes
COVID-20
hahahahaha

 

[WaddleMatt]

I have to say, having Smash characters to look forward to and discuss is a nice point of consistency to have in life, especially in these times where the virus mutated and now the UK's on super lockdown.

Yea I feel you, I have no clue when I will be back at university.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

the what

ah ****

Looks like Dr. Mario's gonna need a whole lot more pills to get us out of this mess.

 

[XorahnGaia]

Worth noting since it's relevant to the Chun-Leak: I could have sworn there was official confirmation that Hero was intended for base game, and I'm not the only one who believes that, but after being pressed on it last time I brought it up I did some research and found it's not that cut-and-dry. It seems Sakurai did make some vague speculative comments about if Hero had been in the base game, and I think that might have triggered a rather extreme Mandela effect.

Mind you, I still think that would line up nicely with the fact that Vergeben knew about a squenix rep since forever, but I don't think we can treat it as fact.

Yeah Sakurai himself hinted that Hero was going to be added in the base game, but they decided to move it to DLC so it would be easier to split the profits among every party that has some involvement with the series.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Yeah Sakurai himself hinted that Hero was going to be added in the base game, but they decided to move it to DLC so it would be easier to split the profits among every party that has some involvement with the series.

Hero was definitely a lot harder to secure I'd imagine

with Sephiroth all you needed was Nomura, Uematsu, a few other members of the FF team and that's it

with Hero you needed Akira friggin' Toriyama, Koichi Sugiyama who is LITERALLY one of the stingiest dudes in the industry EVER, and several other names who escape my memory rn

 

[Geno Boost]

Hey guys I am wondering if anyone of you know someone who is able to bring the Gil Mii Costume to a public download I wanna upgrade it and give an actual face strange how no one has done that yet Gil never had 3D render before...

 

[Nightguything]

hold on

didn't one of Lloyd's VOs say something about a voice role NDA?

now while I doubt it's directly connected to Smash, I'd like to see it again anyway

Scott Menville (@scottmenville) Tweeted:
I wish I could tell you about this cool voice-over project I've been working on but they had me sign an NDA,
(Non-Disclosure Agreement)
or as I like to call it, a
"Nope, Don't Ask."

https://twitter.com/scottmenville/status/1174479362726318082?s=20

Here ya go, for what it’s worth - whatever project he’s talking about has yet to be revealed.

 

[Faso115]

hold on

didn't one of Lloyd's VOs say something about a voice role NDA?

now while I doubt it's directly connected to Smash, I'd like to see it again anyway

You refer to Scott Menville right?

Pretty sure his NDA hint was about Call of Duty Black Ops 4 zombies where he returned to voice one of the characters. Makes sense if you consider the timeframe when that tweet was announced.

Also he stopped voicing Lloyd after the first release of the game, unlikely he would return for smash

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I think after seeing Steve and Sephiroth, we should expect almost anyone to be DLC whether than just who we think is likely or not because the last two reveals clearly shows we don't know jack **** about the DLC or anything.

 

[7NATOR]

You refer to Scott Menville right?

Pretty sure his NDA hint was about Call of Duty Black Ops 4 zombies where he returned to voice one of the characters. Makes sense if you consider the timeframe when that tweet was announced.

Also he stopped voicing Lloyd after the first release of the game, unlikely he would return for smash

Apparently he did another voice over for Lloyd in 2014

Great to finally be allowed to tweet about it. MT@ChuckReidGreene: Great to hear you as Lloyd Irving again in Tales of Symphonia Chronicles.

— Scott Menville (@scottmenville) March 7, 2014

I don't know if it was Re-used lines, or he actually was in the booth, but his voice was used again in this "Tales of Symphonia Chronicles" game

 

[Ivander]

I have to say, having Smash characters to look forward to and discuss is a nice point of consistency to have in life, especially in these times where the virus mutated and now the UK's on super lockdown.

It helps that Sephiroth and the missing Mii costumes have given us more to actually speculate. Not to mention the possible leaks are pretty varied.
-Crash/Reimu/KOS-MOS
-Ryu Hayabusa/Rayman/Doomguy
-Chun-Li/Tales series
-And some other possible leaks regarding Falcom and League of Legends.

Combined with the missing Mii Costumes igniting discussion about Namco and Capcom characters and Sephiroth igniting discussion about characters for in-game franchises like Eggman and we actually have some pretty varied speculation for once. And after that point when we were only focused on Jonesy.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

This is a question for the Ridley fiends, the K. Rool bois, the Banjo fans, and the Steve mains; How have you dealt with ridicule, mockery, and bottom-line torment from other people who doubted you?

I found that the best method was to only respond when you had a feeling that the person actually wasn't in it just to hate on your character or to rub it in. Over the years the difference between how trolls approached you compared to people who wanted a genuine discussion became extremely obvious, it's just a shame that the haters outnumbered the genuinely curious outsiders 10 to 1. It's always best to not respond aggressively either, having a bit of tact helped the fanbase as a whole, 99% of the time when our thread got closed it was because a fellow supporter lost their cool with a troll. Other than that you eventually just develop a thick skin, it's like being a sports fan, you just have to accept that there are always going to be a lot of people who hate your team for various reasons and not take it personally.

For me the toughest years to support Ridley were from 2014 - 2016, Sakurai's interview where he took the side of "Ridley is too big" seemed to sway a lot of people who were neutral on the matter into becoming haters. Sakurai has earned every bit of respect he gets, but there's a not-insignificant part of the Smash fanbase that worship him to the point where they're willing to attack people who disagree with him. As a Ridley fan I very much felt like an outcast during this time, talk about the character was banned here on Smashboards outside of an enclosed group (and for good reason I must admit), the Smash subreddit could be very nasty against Ridley fans (they're particularly guilty of deifying Sakurai), and I even talked with quite a few fellow Metroid fans who told me to support Sylux instead. I can't speak for everyone, but for me it was impossible to not want Ridley in Smash, so I just chose to distance myself from a community that clearly didn't want me to be part of it.

This is very much a humble brag, but I think one of the most important parts of how to deal with the haters is to not gloat once you get what you want. If showing up the haters becomes a priority, you've lost sight of why you even started supporting the character to begin with. Just celebrate and move on.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It helps that Sephiroth and the missing Mii costumes have given us more to actually speculate. Not to mention the possible leaks are pretty varied.
-Crash/Reimu/KOS-MOS
-Ryu Hayabusa/Rayman/Doomguy
-Chun-Li/Tales series
-And some other possible leaks regarding Falcom and League of Legends.

Combined with the missing Mii Costumes igniting discussion about Namco and Capcom characters and Sephiroth igniting discussion about characters for in-game franchises like Eggman and we actually have some pretty varied speculation for once. And after that point when we were only focused on Jonesy.

If, and I repeat, IF we get a third pass with only 4 fighters as per the WoL placeholders, I could see Falcom and/or League being relegated to pass 3

also still say Fortnite's getting either a Spirit Event or costume. most likely an event

 

[DarthEnderX]

Basically, you just can’t toss this rumor/text post out the window.

Yes I can. All rumors/leaks are fake.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Yes I can. All rumors/leaks are fake.

99% of rumors/leaks are fake but 1 out of a trillion of them are real whether you believe it or not. Concrete legitimate leaks are VERY, VERY, rare to come by.

 

[Slime Master]

Yeah Sakurai himself hinted that Hero was going to be added in the base game, but they decided to move it to DLC so it would be easier to split the profits among every party that has some involvement with the series.

I found summary articles that didn't even mention that statement since it was apparently so non-committal. It makes sense that Sakurai wouldn't want to state that openly though, might come off as throwing squenix under the bus.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Yes I can. All rumors/leaks are fake.

Except when they are not .

Are most "leaks" wrong? Yes, absolutely. But plenty of stuff has legitimately been leaked for smash since Brawl.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

99% of rumors/leaks are fake but 1 out of a trillion of them are real whether you believe it or not. Concrete legitimate leaks are VERY, VERY, rare to come by.

examples include ESRB, the Ken image, and there might be a few others I'm forgetting

didn't the initial launch rumor that said "Ridley, Snake, no cuts" originate there too?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

didn't the initial launch rumor that said "Ridley, Snake, no cuts" originate there too?

I think it was Vergeben that said that.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

examples include ESRB, the Ken image, and there might be a few others I'm forgetting

didn't the initial launch rumor that said "Ridley, Snake, no cuts" originate there too?

Yepperino.

If you want some other examples, Nintendo themselves accidentally leaked Simon and Terry. Banjo got leaked right before E3. There's the whole "brave" datamine fiasco. Box Leak and Kencineroar was a dark time.