Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SNEKeater]

Ya know, even though I don't think it's likely at all to happen, I do wonder how much music Demi-Fiend would come with if he were selected.

Since like, 2 of his songs are pretty "yikes" territory for Smash standards. Smash has always been a bit awkward when it comes to religious stuff, so I do wonder how they'd handle two of the most iconic Nocturne songs having lyrics like "ONE MORE GOD REJECTED" or "WE SACRIFICED THE SON OF HEAVEN."

Makes me wonder if they'd just not include them at all, despite how iconic they are to Nocturne.

I actually think the next 2 lines could be more problematic lol

"Satan will be released
Judgement has come to you "

In any case, I think they could just modify/censor the lyrics, like they did with Mass Destruction from Persona 3.

I just hope if we ever get Demi-fiend or a SMT character that we get most of the battle themes from Nocturne and IV, including the final boss theme from the True Demon Ending of Nocturne.

 

[Shroob]

I actually think the next 2 lines could be more problematic lol

"Satan will be released
Judgement has come to you "

In any case, I think they could just modify/censor the lyrics, like they did with Mass Destruction from Persona 3.

I just hope if we ever get Demi-fiend or a SMT character that we get most of the battle themes from Nocturne and IV, including the final boss theme from the True Demon Ending of Nocturne.

I've always heard "I am the bug inside you."

Which, considering Demi-Fiend's origin, makes sense...

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

If Sega can make Sonic just screwing around in the overworld half as fun as it is to do with Link in BOTW, then a lot of the major hurdle with the game is done. At that point, pairing that concept with some well designed platformer stages (which Sonic Generations demonstrated they can do) and you'd have quite the game.

 

[Icedragonadam]

If Sega can make Sonic just screwing around in the overworld half as fun as it is to do with Link in BOTW, then a lot of the major hurdle with the game is done. At that point, pairing that concept with some well designed platformer stages (which Sonic Generations demonstrated they can do) and you'd have quite the game.

Just take the Sonic 06 game as a base and make it open world. It would be the most hilarious game ever aside from Big Riggs.

 

[ahemtoday]

Sonic is all about movement, and giving him a proper sandbox to mess around in and explore is a nice idea on paper. The question is if Sonic Team can pull it off without compromising Sonic’s feel or proper level design. I think a lot of people are wary of 3D Sonic in general though so while a new direction is promising, it’s also very likely to be messy, to say the least.

See, I can kind of imagine a level that I would find fun enough to traverse in any given direction. But it definitely doesn't look like Breath of the Wild's overworld - if you want me to have fun in an open-world platformer, I want to have to actually platform to get up a cliff or something, not just hold forward at the thing I need to go to until I get there. And I don't really have an example of anything like that.

If Sega can make Sonic just screwing around in the overworld half as fun as it is to do with Link in BOTW, then a lot of the major hurdle with the game is done. At that point, pairing that concept with some well designed platformer stages (which Sonic Generations demonstrated they can do) and you'd have quite the game.

How fun is screwing around in the overworld in BOTW? My main concern is that it could match that in the eyes of most people and I still wouldn't really like it.

 

[CannonStreak]

Speaking of the Sonic news today, check this out.

Hey, who's lives icon is that? 🤔

(Screens from famitsu just dropped) pic.twitter.com/nzIq4WWRIT

— Jäckel (The Drink) (@jackelzxa) May 28, 2021

Looks like a certain fox may be playable!

 

[rychu_supadude]

Right, A XC2 was heavily fan requested, an FE3H rep wasn’t.

The levels of desire were very similar, it's just that one had less haters purely because one series had "seven" reps already and the other had a single one. So most of us kept the discussion to FE forums because it felt unsafe just to bring it up sometimes. There was also the lack and existence of precedent for non-third-party DLC in each time period.

Internet hate mobs have been able to dislike bomb otherwise innocuous YouTube videos into oblivion all the time, but Byleth's reveal still has twice as many likes as dislikes. (Yes, yes, it's still the outright least popular one, I know that)

 

[Twilord]

I think we're gonna see a double reveal at E3. One of the two will be 'Legendary Trainer' from Legend's Arceus since they have a cross-generation assortment of starters. I also suspect that the other one will probably be a Bandai Namco rep.

Additionally I feel like Legendary Trainer would come with a Jibanyan Mii Costume (because Yokai are the Pokémon of Japanese of mythology) and possibly a Digimon Mii-Costume. The Mii costume would probably be Omnimon since while Agumon is the mascot Omnimon is both the Charizard and the Mewtwo of Digimon.

It does not make sense to me that we haven't had a Level 5 representation of any kind yet, a Jibanyan Mii-Costume coming with a new Pokémon rep would make a lot of sense.

I'm slightly less confident on the second Mii-Costume coming with Pokémon for two reasons. Firstly Digimon would be anti-thetical to the historical theme of Legends Arceus, and could easily come with a Bandai Namco rep like Lloyd or Yuri... secondly Digimon could actually be the second Bandai Namco rep since its actually had a weird amount of influence on gaming history while it was still in its infancy and just a V-Pet game without a console game (or anime) behind it.


Obviously there is a good argument for Lloyd/Yuri to get in; the fighters pass has definitely had a bias towards characters with a similar aesthetic design to them. BUT allow me to explain why I think there is a chance we'll see a Bandai rep rather than a second Namco one.

----------------------------------------

When we were stuck on talk of the spectacular 3D graphics of Mario 64 and racing games, we saw a huge hit in the form of [Bandai's] Tamagotchi — a tiny key chain boasting pictures made up of no more than 10 or 20 dots. At that time, I thought that Mario 64 had lost to Tamagotchi. [laughs. Miyamoto quickly adds in English: "I'm serious."]
—Shigeru Miyamoto[21]

As I'm sure folk are sick of hearing, but Digimon was an off-shoot of Tamagotchi; meaning this quote, and the larger context of it which arguably paints the Wii/DS era as being somewhat inspired by V-Pets, can also be held up as counting for it.

Nintendo actually had huge success with their own V-Pet brand in those days, Nintendogs. Unfortunately for understandable reasons they've decided it should be kept to an assist trophy. The issues that exist for Nintendogs and to a lesser degree for Mametchi or hypothetically for a Chao (and I've probably spent more time raising Chao than playing the rest of the Sonic Franchise so please forgive my wish for a V-Pet rep) is hon



Amusingly considering Nintendo had their eyes on that scene it was around this time frame, roughly one year after Digimon came out, that Pokémon Yellow came out. As you may remember it actually added basic V-Pet elements in the form of partner Pikachu. I have to wonder if Pokémon doing that played any part in Digimon deciding to expand into home console games, and later going multimedia.

Amusingly Pokémon Gold came out after that would also expand on the happiness system, and add eggs and babies which are also common V-Pet elements. In a weird way, effectively cementing Digimon as the Castlevania of two different genres.


... BUT there is every chance it will just be Lloyd or Yuri. Personally I'd like to call it a three way tie.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I think we're gonna see a double reveal at E3. One of the two will be 'Legendary Trainer' from Legend's Arceus since they have a cross-generation assortment of starters

Arceus is already a Poke Ball.

 

[Technomage]

Arceus is already a Poke Ball.

No, he means the Trainer from Legends Arceus, not Arceus itself.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

No he means the Trainer from Legends Arceus, not Arceus itself.

Poop I apparently didn't read that well. My mistake.

 

[Idon]

Arceus is already a Poke Ball.

Legendary Trainer from Legends Arceus using Legends Arceus starters, not using Arceus themselves.

 

[Peripuff]

Speaking of the Sonic news today, check this out.

Hey, who's lives icon is that? 🤔

(Screens from famitsu just dropped) pic.twitter.com/nzIq4WWRIT

— Jäckel (The Drink) (@jackelzxa) May 28, 2021

Looks like a certain fox may be playable!

Welp this went from a "might check out" to "day 1 buy" very quickly huh

 

[CannonStreak]

This seems to confirm it. A shame, but the remaster still looks good https://t.co/HlzNYZ8G86 pic.twitter.com/wTVar2MXNs

— NTom64 (@NTom64_Lyfe) May 28, 2021

Never mind, it is not the case.

 

[Gnateb]

I think we're gonna see a double reveal at E3. One of the two will be 'Legendary Trainer' from Legend's Arceus since they have a cross-generation assortment of starters. I also suspect that the other one will probably be a Bandai Namco rep.

Additionally I feel like Legendary Trainer would come with a Jibanyan Mii Costume (because Yokai are the Pokémon of Japanese of mythology) and possibly a Digimon Mii-Costume. The Mii costume would probably be Omnimon since while Agumon is the mascot Omnimon is both the Charizard and the Mewtwo of Digimon.

It does not make sense to me that we haven't had a Level 5 representation of any kind yet, a Jibanyan Mii-Costume coming with a new Pokémon rep would make a lot of sense.

I'm slightly less confident on the second Mii-Costume coming with Pokémon for two reasons. Firstly Digimon would be anti-thetical to the historical theme of Legends Arceus, and could easily come with a Bandai Namco rep like Lloyd or Yuri... secondly Digimon could actually be the second Bandai Namco rep since its actually had a weird amount of influence on gaming history while it was still in its infancy and just a V-Pet game without a console game (or anime) behind it.


Obviously there is a good argument for Lloyd/Yuri to get in; the fighters pass has definitely had a bias towards characters with a similar aesthetic design to them. BUT allow me to explain why I think there is a chance we'll see a Bandai rep rather than a second Namco one.

----------------------------------------



As I'm sure folk are sick of hearing, but Digimon was an off-shoot of Tamagotchi; meaning this quote, and the larger context of it which arguably paints the Wii/DS era as being somewhat inspired by V-Pets, can also be held up as counting for it.

Nintendo actually had huge success with their own V-Pet brand in those days, Nintendogs. Unfortunately for understandable reasons they've decided it should be kept to an assist trophy. The issues that exist for Nintendogs and to a lesser degree for Mametchi or hypothetically for a Chao (and I've probably spent more time raising Chao than playing the rest of the Sonic Franchise so please forgive my wish for a V-Pet rep) is hon



Amusingly considering Nintendo had their eyes on that scene it was around this time frame, roughly one year after Digimon came out, that Pokémon Yellow came out. As you may remember it actually added basic V-Pet elements in the form of partner Pikachu. I have to wonder if Pokémon doing that played any part in Digimon deciding to expand into home console games, and later going multimedia.

Amusingly Pokémon Gold came out after that would also expand on the happiness system, and add eggs and babies which are also common V-Pet elements. In a weird way, effectively cementing Digimon as the Castlevania of two different genres.


... BUT there is every chance it will just be Lloyd or Yuri. Personally I'd like to call it a three way tie.

I have a different Bandai Namco character in mind... Sorry, I'll stop with the DS overposting for a while.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Assuming we get the Arceus Trainer then. What would his/her 3 Pokemon be?

 

[Perkilator]

This seems to confirm it. A shame, but the remaster still looks good https://t.co/HlzNYZ8G86 pic.twitter.com/wTVar2MXNs

— NTom64 (@NTom64_Lyfe) May 28, 2021

Never mind, it is not the case.

'Exclusive player icons' is a different thing from life icons. I'm gonna wait and see if Tails actually is playable, but wouldn't throw in the towel just yet.

 

[cashregister9]

This seems to confirm it. A shame, but the remaster still looks good https://t.co/HlzNYZ8G86 pic.twitter.com/wTVar2MXNs

— NTom64 (@NTom64_Lyfe) May 28, 2021

Never mind, it is not the case.

I think the "Player Avatars" refers to the Save File Icons, Which If I recall you can change.

 

[MBRedboy31]

This seems to confirm it. A shame, but the remaster still looks good https://t.co/HlzNYZ8G86 pic.twitter.com/wTVar2MXNs

— NTom64 (@NTom64_Lyfe) May 28, 2021

Never mind, it is not the case.

Aren't "player avatars" these things that go on the file select?

'd but I'm the first one to include a screenshot.

 

[Twilord]

I have a different Bandai Namco character in mind... Sorry, I'll stop with the DS overposting for a while.

Honestly I'd be quite happy to hear the case for Dark Souls, but I will warn - I'd be surprised if Bandai Namco, if asked (and I suspect they would be) decided to choose a franchise that is effectively over.

Tales Of and Digimon both have new games coming up that Bandai Namco have high hopes for. (Also in Digimon's case the Vitality Bracelet and new card game also seem like things they're pushing hard right now.)

 

[Technomage]

Assuming we get the Arceus Trainer then. What would his/her 3 Pokemon be?

I've seen plenty of people say "Oshawott, Rowlett, and Cyndaquil".

 

[CannonStreak]

Hold on.

Hold on, now I'm getting mixed messages. There's four icons here and it's movie content. So what does the Tails life icon mean? pic.twitter.com/lVokE7zTCV

— NTom64 (@NTom64_Lyfe) May 28, 2021

Looks like Tails as a playable is still on the table.

 

[Twilord]

Assuming we get the Arceus Trainer then. What would his/her 3 Pokemon be?

Interesting question; I'm not convinced we'd get Decidueye as the fully evolved one, since Incineroar is from the same game... but both Water and Fire have fully evolved Pokémon already.

 

[CannonStreak]

Interesting question; I'm not convinced we'd get Decidueye as the fully evolved one, since Incineroar is from the same game... but both Water and Fire have fully evolved Pokémon already.

Hi there. Just want to say, I love you avatar!

Man, this wait for E3 has been long, but in two weeks, it will come to an end.

 

[Twilord]

I've seen plenty of people say "Oshawott, Rowlett, and Cyndaquil".

Really? No evolution-stages? That is a very interesting take...

 

[Ivander]

Assuming we get the Arceus Trainer then. What would his/her 3 Pokemon be?

If they get the starter Pokemon, we have Cyndaquil, Rowlett and Oshawott. Then it's a competition on whether it'll be 1 of them being the first form, another being the 2nd form and the last being the 3rd form, or if all three will be either not evolved or fully evolved, which the three would be Typlosion, Samurott and Decidueye.

All 3 being the fully evolved form would be cool, cause all 3 would still have drastically different playstyles. Decidueye being the ranged zoner character, Typlosion being the fast and speedy character and Samurott being the bulky hard hitting character.

 

[Twilord]

Hold on.

Hold on, now I'm getting mixed messages. There's four icons here and it's movie content. So what does the Tails life icon mean? pic.twitter.com/lVokE7zTCV

— NTom64 (@NTom64_Lyfe) May 28, 2021

Looks like Tails as a playable is still on the table.

I've been dreaming about a set up where we could have 'one rival per Smash 64 default character' - despite not being into Spyro I'd sorta thought that they'd be Yoshi's match... BUT Tails would work for that and I LOVE him.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Wait actually,

The Legends Arceus thing makes sense, hear me out:

something like Cyndaquil, Dewott and Decidueye.
Deicidueye being fully evolved. (Grass Starter too)

Decidueye was almost our Gen 7 rep.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Do we know what time and day Nintendo will have their E3 Presentation? I’ll probably miss it since my new job starts on the 14th but I’m curious nonetheless.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Decidueye was almost our Gen 7 rep.

Oh snap! This is where Fix Theory comes into play! Characters left out of base or were considered.

ARMS character - Min Min
Steve - Rumored for Base game
Sephiroth - Added in condition of Cloud returning to Ultimate
Xenoblade 2 character - Pyra & Mythra

 

[Shroob]

So are the old event spirits already in game, or being added sometime soon?



Wonder if this means they'll add another batch in FP10's patch. The Arthur/Sophia spirits missing from my collection bugs me.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Oh snap! This is where Fix Theory comes into play! Characters left out of base or were considered.

ARMS character - Min Min
Steve - Rumored for Base game
Sephiroth - Added in condition of Cloud returning to Ultimate
Xenoblade 2 character - Pyra & Mythra

YOOOOO
So what if EVERY character in FP2 fits this, though?

 

[Twilord]

Wait actually,

The Legends Arceus thing makes sense, hear me out:

something like Cyndaquil, Dewott and Decidueye.
Deicidueye being fully evolved. (Grass Starter too)

Decidueye was almost our Gen 7 rep.

Yeah, it just all fits oddly well in my mind.

BUT I'm crazy and have secretly been convinced for a while we'd see a Digimon in Smash Bros, which would work too well as a double reveal with Pokémon to end on. (I literally started off wanting KOS-MOS from Bandai Namco and just tumbled down a logic vortex pointing at Digimon.)

 

[SneakyLink]

Do we know what time and day Nintendo will have their E3 Presentation? I’ll probably miss it since my new job starts on the 14th but I’m curious nonetheless.

Curious about this too as I got a job starting soon as well.

In general they have a presentation the first day of the event followed by multiple Treehouse days.

Assuming that holds true, then the presentation would likely be on Saturday. However since we don't know when it is it could very easily be on the 15th, the Tuesday (and last day) of the event. Time is usually Noon est.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Yeah, it just all fits oddly well in my mind.

BUT I'm crazy and have secretly been convinced for a while we'd see a Digimon in Smash Bros, which would work too well as a double reveal with Pokémon to end on. (I literally started off wanting KOS-MOS from Bandai Namco and just tumbled down a logic vortex pointing at Digimon.)

Fitting being Pokemon and Digimon had an intense rivalry back in the 90s and early 2000s.

Areceus Legends Trainer and Agumon. Imagine that.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Yeah, it just all fits oddly well in my mind.

BUT I'm crazy and have secretly been convinced for a while we'd see a Digimon in Smash Bros, which would work too well as a double reveal with Pokémon to end on. (I literally started off wanting KOS-MOS from Bandai Namco and just tumbled down a logic vortex pointing at Digimon.)

What kind of logic are we talking about here?

 

[Twilord]

What kind of logic are we talking about here?

Well a bit before Fighter's Pass 2 was announced, Bandai Namco made a dual pack of two of the most popular Digimon games (the Cyber Sleuth games) for Nintendo Switch, and PC admittedly.

Square Enix had gotten a Square rep and an Enix rep. Bandai Namco might therefore get a Bandai rep and a Namco rep.

Bandai's big impact on gaming were there V-Pets; Tamagotchi and its huge spin-off Digimon.

Persona got in over SMT, so Digimon getting in over Tamagotchi shouldn't be an issue.

Bandai Namco have had a lot of a big Digimon projects lately, such as the Vitality Bracelet. Digimon Survive for example is still coming up. (Also the new card game is huge and the anime reboot is... well its not as impressive but that's Toei's problem but Bandai Namco signed off on it with good intentions.)

Namco's rep was Pac-Man which was something Miyamoto suggested to Sakurai. Miyamoto has previously mentioned Tamagotchi during, I believe, a keynote speech at a game-develeoper's conference, as something that Nintendo were a little worried by; with implications it helped inspire the eventual Wii/DS era.

Nintendogs are still just an assist trophy despite having been a huge deal, and there is only one V-Pet franchise that completely side-steps the issues that have it restricted to that.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I would absolutely love Agumon.

His Down B should also kinda be like a mix of Pokemon Trainer and Melee Zelda/Sheik and Pyra/Mythra where he can digivolve into Greymon and MetalGreymon and then WarGreymon being his Final Smash.

 

[Sephirothorsomethingidk]

Well a bit before Fighter's Pass 2 was announced, Bandai Namco made a dual pack of two of the most popular Digimon games (the Cyber Sleuth games) for Nintendo Switch, and PC admittedly.

Square Enix had gotten a Square rep and an Enix rep. Bandai Namco might therefore get a Bandai rep and a Namco rep.

Bandai's big impact on gaming were there V-Pets; Tamagotchi and its huge spin-off Digimon.

Persona got in over SMT, so Digimon getting in over Tamagotchi shouldn't be an issue.

Bandai Namco have had a lot of a big Digimon projects lately, such as the Vitality Bracelet. Digimon Survive for example is still coming up. (Also the new card game is huge and the anime reboot is... well its not as impressive but that's Toei's problem but Bandai Namco signed off on it with good intentions.)

Namco's rep was Pac-Man which was something Miyamoto suggested to Sakurai. Miyamoto has previously mentioned Tamagotchi during, I believe, a keynote speech at a game-develeoper's conference, as something that Nintendo were a little worried by; with implications it helped inspire the eventual Wii/DS era.

Nintendogs are still just an assist trophy despite having been a huge deal, and there is only one V-Pet franchise that completely side-steps the issues that have it restricted to that.

Nah I'd rather get Lloyd or a Tales character tbh

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Digimon in Smash would be a huge megaton for those who were kids in late 90’s (now have +~25 years) and saw the rivalry between Pokémon and Digimon.

btw, expect Nintendo presentation on 15th june at 9 am pt, its their usual time they do their E3 directs.