Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[cashregister9]

Here is game idea I came up with.
Write pro-con for your most wanted. You can put iffy part in the middle

Master Chief

Pro

• Microsoft and Nintendo are in good term as Banjo and Steve are in Smash. MS also published games on Nintendo platform even before Minecraft.
• Credible leaker, King Zell hinted Halo content on Switch not only once, but twice later. Other leaker like Sabi also backed him.
• Despite what the internet describes, Halo 5 was still success on par with previous entry. It's still juggernaut, especially in US. Putting Chief in Smash will boost Smash's popularity even further. Characters with much worse situation got in. With Halo Infinite coming next year, it would be good marketing for that game.
• Halo is one of the most influential series as it paved ways for modern FPS. So, it definitely deserves place in Smasg.
• Lots of moveset potential with new gimmick. Possibly the most diverse moveset potential among FPS rep.
• FPS genre definitely can use rep in Smash.
• Sakurai played and praised Halo 2 along with Half Life 2. So, he is definitely acquainted with Halo series.

Iffy

• There is firearm issue, but Bayonetta and Joker proved this point moot. Even then, UNSC firearm look less realistic than Joker.
• It may be difficult to balance him out due to nature of zoner. But, I believe in Sakurai's ability to make him fun.
• Xbox France account posted tweet, saying that Master Chief is waitiny invitation. It can be seen as soft deconfirmation, but the guy would most likely be out of loop. Because the deal would've been made among higher up, not some random guy running official twitter account.

Con

• Steve's inclusion makes him less likely as there hasn't been a case of 3rd party company double dipping in the same pass.
• Halo's popularity in Japan may be roadblock. But, About 4 million out of 20 millions of Ultimate sales came from Japan. While it's impressive number, but it's not as damning as people make it out to be. Halo anime was sold decently in Japan. Japanese anime studio wouldn't simply accept check if Halo was totally obscure in Japan. There are still Halo merch made Japanese coming in.
• Lack of games on Nintendo platform hurts, but Chief made appearance on Nintendo platform via Minecraft and Fortnite.

Estelle

Pro
-Unique Moveset, Estelle has a Bo-staff
-Legacy, The Legend Of Heroes series is a spin-off of Falcom's longest running series, Dragon Slayer
-Popularity, Trails is arguably the most popular Falcom series
-Falcom is one of the oldest Japanese Publishers not yet represented in smash
-It is popular in other Asian countries not just Japan
-Falcom is famously very lax when it comes to music
-Estelle is the Icon of the Trails Series.
-Crossover darling, Trails is what Falcom uses most often for Crossovers.

Iffy
-The whole series is not on switch, but a few newer games have

Con
-Adol and Rean are huge roadblocks for Estelle
-The series is quite Niche outside of Asia

 

[cothero]

I mean Nintendo is a business, if they've determined within the past two years there's more significant value in Crash as a fighter than Rayman (ballot requests be damned) they'll go with him.

You've got a point there.

 

[Ornl]

Write pro-con for your most wanted. You can put iffy part in the middle

Space Invaders

Pro

• Pioneer – 7th highest grossing series of all time.° Inducted into the World Video Game Hall of Fame.° Tomohiro Nishikaku (SI creator) received a Special Award from CEDEC 2015 at the same time as Toru Iwatani (Pac-Man creator) to honor the first generation of video games, and Masahiro Sakurai was here.*
• Influencer – Nintendo decided to go into the video game business when the game appeared.°, *
• Sakurai uses – He used Space Invaders in his talk on GDC Risk and Return from 500th column Famitsu livestream.° He showcased some of his creations in Dragon Quest Builders 2, starting on a Space Invaders sprite.° His creation Kid Icarus: Uprising refer to Space Invaders in Chapter 24.*
• Unique – Being original isn't a problem for aliens or the UFO (pixels, spawning minions [flood], evolving speed, aerial 3rd-party...).

Iffy

• Compagny – Another Squenix rep, but from Taito. Taito is already represented in Ultimate by Orville (Spirit).
• Legitimacy – It's easy to see Space Invaders as any Spirit / Assist Trophy / Mii Hat / Stage, but he isn't much desired as a Fighter.

Con

• Museum collector's item – The main point of including Space Invaders would be to pay homage to this pioneering series, but neighbors Pac-Man and Duck Hunt were characters included in the Sm4sh base game, and not as DLC ; Pirhana Plant was also a "bonus" Fighter.
• No marketing interest – Players and ballots seem to have little interest in the series and the series appears to have little interest in Nintendo. The only marketing interest of Space Invaders would be to further strengthen the link with Squenix and Taito.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Isn't Kratos only available in the PS4 version tho?

Btw, are we really limiting speculation to pre 2016 stuff? Because that sure as hell didn't stop Hero and Min Min. This isn't base folks nor is it about the Ballot.

The ballot was a mistake

The ballot still contains valuable data that Nintendo would want to use.

Even the Brawl poll got used in Smash 4, with Mega Man being cited as being the second most popular character from it (first being Sonic).

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

2021 may be the same ****ty year but. Hey, at least the MhR demo is happening

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Modding my Switch rn.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Honest question for you guys.

I remember Sephiroth being a really popular request in Japan. I even remember him being like top five in a poll at one time. Is this true? Was he that popular over there? And if so, could he have been our ballot/fan pick?

Or maybe our ballot/fan pick was Steve with his global appeal.

 

[Zeox]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Modding my Switch rn.

That was... extremely fast.

 

[metalhydra273]

well all you really have to mod in is the head right? And with how dedicated people are with Geno support I'm not really surprised they got a high quality mask out quick. It looks awesome though and it's honestly what we should've gotten in the first place.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

well all you really have to mod in is the head right? And with how dedicated people are with Geno support I'm not really surprised they got a high quality mask out quick. It looks awesome though and it's honestly what we should've gotten in the first place.

I think the cape was made neater too. The OG Geno costume has a clipping cape

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Stuff like the Geno mod definitely makes me lament we haven't hit the point of deeper customization with the Mii Fighters. Even accepting that one couldn't alter shape/size of clothing or hats, being able to draw your own logos, change default colors, and do little changes to faces would such a major difference. Granted the animation on faces during combat would greatly complicate potential but its hard to see stuff like the great custom work people have done in Animal Crossing and not want a little bit of it in Smash.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Stuff like the Geno mod definitely makes me lament we haven't hit the point of deeper customization with the Mii Fighters. Even accepting that one couldn't alter shape/size of clothing or hats, being able to draw your own logos, change default colors, and do little changes to faces would such a major difference. Granted the animation on faces during combat would greatly complicate potential but its hard to see stuff like the great custom stuff people have done in Animal Crossing and not want a little bit of it in Smash.

Yeah I really don't know why we can't color all of the costumes. The feature's right there, you just have to do what you did with the generic outfits to the character themed ones.

As far as adding things go, I would personally have added the option to customize each Mii's "character art" pose (and then use said pose in the vs screen instead of the actual character art with a blacked out face), the series icon, and the victory fanfare (the victory and taunt animations too if they could go the extra mile and make a bunch more for them).

With that, you could make a Mii with a red Isaac costume doing a JoJo pose in the versus screen, has taunts and victory animations that aren't super generic, is considered to be from the Yoshi series, and uses Sephiroth's victory fanfare. Glorious.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So with the New Year upon us. How is everyone satisfied with Pass 2 so far?

Thrilled for Min Min and Sephiroth.

Don't mind Steve. Happy for his fans.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Boo on Byleth though.

He's not even in Pass 2!

 

[Michael the Spikester]

He's not even in Pass 2!

Whoops brainfart. Don't know where that came from.

 

[Technomage]

So with the New Year upon us. How is everyone satisfied with Pass 2 so far?

Thrilled for Min Min and Sephiroth.

Don't mind Steve. Happy for his fans.

Boo on Byleth though.

Well, I'm personally pleased with Sephiroth, due to having a lot of love for Opera Omnia (though I personally would have prefered a rep from a different FF installment, in order to show players more of what the whole series is about (I personally would have prefered Squall, since it would have given the roster its first vibroblader); Sephy's still good enough for me, all things considered).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think compared to the first 3 characters of Pass 1, Pass 2 is better overall. Especially since I was able to have an opinion on the first character during the post-reveal/pre-launch era (counting the guessing game).

 

[Lyncario]

So far, with FP2 I went from "Oh, Min-Min is kinda cool even if nowhere near my favorite choice for a 1st party character" to "They really ût Steve in? That's awesome!" to "NO WAY THIS IS REAL, IT CAN'T BE- IT'S SEPHIROTH!". So yeah, FP2 has raised the hype more and more, and Sephiroth pretty much already satisfies me.

 

[CureParfait]

Here is game idea I came up with.
Write pro-con for your most wanted. You can put iffy part in the middle

Darkrai

Pros:

• Indicates Pokeball Pokemon aren't out of the running.
• May not seem like they are a shill pick to some due to appearing in a previous gen
• A Pokemon that isn't a starter
• Potentially have unique movesets
• First playable Mythical Pokemon
• Might have an unique interaction with Pokemon roster on the reveal trailer
• Comes with Pokemon stage and music that isn't in Smash yet

Cons:

• Some might prefer extremely popular Pokemon such as Mimikyu
• Not a starter Pokemon
• May get called a shill pick by some
• Probably won't come with a Gen 4 stage

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Guess maybe I'll ask the better question.

How are the newcomers as a whole so far for all of you?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

In comparison of their respective first three characters I'd still give if a slight edge to the first pass if just because Banjo-Kazooie was so significant to me that it outweighs even my lesser interest in Joker and Hero. Min Min, Steve, and Sephiroth are all fine, but nothing's gotten me excited quite like that. Though admittedly this does mean the second pass has a pretty low bar to get over for its other half given the solid, but unspectacular inclusion of Terry and meh reveal of Byleth.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Id imagine Sephiroth is super popular in Japan

 

[Lamperouge]

Guess maybe I'll ask the better question.

How are the newcomers as a whole so far for all of you?

Needs more swords, though.

 

[Technomage]

Guess maybe I'll ask the better question.

How are the newcomers as a whole so far for all of you?

I personally do not like the addition of echoes (with the exception of Ken Masters and Isabelle, since they both have enough differences from their originals).

I'm quite pleased with K. Rool, Bankjo-Kazooie, and Sephiroth, plus I also enjoy playing as Ridley, Isabelle, Piranha Plant, Terry Bogard, Byleth Eisner, and Min Min.

On the other hand, I would have loved to see Krystal on the base roster.

The rest I don't really care much for.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Here is game idea I came up with.
Write pro-con for your most wanted. You can put iffy part in the middle.

Phoenix Wright

Pros

• Popularity- While never a “Frontrunner” Nick has been a popular pick since Megaman was added in Smash 4, having a decent presence during the fighter ballot
• Relationship With Nintendo- Every single Ace Attorney game has either been originally an exclusive to Nintendo, or is still exclusive to Nintendo.
• No Current Representation- There has not been a single ioda of Ace Attorney in Smash yet. No stages, No characters, No mii costumes, No music, Not even any Spirits. This is very strange considering RE had an entire Spirit event.
• Capcom Is Focusing On AA in 2021- A recent leak has almost 100% confirmed the Great Ace Attorney is being localized and ported to Switch. Along with AA7 entering development. So Capcom may want Smash for marketing.

Iffy

• Nothing From Capcom in FP2- After the end of FP1, Capcom has been entirely absent from Smash. This can either mean a character is in the works, or Capcom is done with Smash entirely.

Cons

• Competition- Capcom has so many franchises to draw from that are likely, Mega Man, Street Fighter, Monster Hunter, Devil May Cry, Ace Attorney may end up being passed over in favor of a different franchise.
• Smash Wasn’t In The Capcom Leak- As was mentioned, Capcom had a massive leak that dropped plans for tons of Ace Attorney. And yet Smash wasn’t in those plans. This could be explained with the idea that Nintendo would be in charge of communications and development, therefore Capcom wouldn’t have much reason to keep record of it other than the basic legal reasons. Regardless, no Smash in Capcoms leak does deal wuite a blow to every Capcom character, including Phoenix.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Smash Wasn’t In The Capcom Leak- As was mentioned, Capcom had a massive leak that dropped plans for tons of Ace Attorney. And yet Smash wasn’t in those plans. This could be explained with the idea that Nintendo would be in charge of communications and development, therefore Capcom wouldn’t have much reason to keep record of it other than the basic legal reasons. Regardless, no Smash in Capcoms leak does deal wuite a blow to every Capcom character, including Phoenix.

Isn't that still being datamined?

 

[GoodGrief741]

So with the New Year upon us. How is everyone satisfied with Pass 2 so far?

Thrilled for Min Min and Sephiroth.

Don't mind Steve. Happy for his fans.

Min Min and Sephiroth were great.

Guess maybe I'll ask the better question.

How are the newcomers as a whole so far for all of you?

Very high highs, staggeringly low lows. Not the best batch of newcomers by a long shot though.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Guess maybe I'll ask the better question.

How are the newcomers as a whole so far for all of you?

Its generally started strong with some high points in the middle with some decline at the end.
Ridley and K. Rool were good enough for me to buy the Fighter's Pass 1 off the bat and I still don't regret it despite Byleth because I got Hero and Banjo Kazooie out of it. Steve was enough for me to get 2 and Sephiroth solidified my lack of buyer's remorse.

 

[Lyncario]

Guess maybe I'll ask the better question.

How are the newcomers as a whole so far for all of you?

I like them a lot, Joker, Terry and Sephiroth are easily some of the best additions Smash ever got, and I find most others to still be great.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Isn't that still being datamined?

Not to my knowledge, though it is very possible I missed that.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I think Ultimate has my favorite batch of newcomers across the entire series. A very diverse lineup with a little something for everyone I think.

Longtime fan demands, fun and unique playstyles, forgotten favorites, rising modern stars... it really feels like Ultimate's selection almost has it all

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I think Ultimate has my favorite batch of newcomers across the entire series. A very diverse lineup with a little something for everyone I think.

Agreed especially when we have fan favorites like Banjo, Ridley, and K. Rool.

They along with the Belmonts, Min Min, and Sephiroth sell it for me.

 

[7NATOR]

Honest question for you guys.

I remember Sephiroth being a really popular request in Japan. I even remember him being like top five in a poll at one time. Is this true? Was he that popular over there? And if so, could he have been our ballot/fan pick?

Or maybe our ballot/fan pick was Steve with his global appeal.

I couldn't find too much Japan results, but from this poll, Sephiroth did pretty good

https://s.inside-games.jp/article/2020/02/26/127623.html

I assume Sephiroth was a top 3 Square character there, along with Sora and 2B, and Square characters do really well there or something.

I don't know if he was a ballot pick. If people were voting for both Cloud and Sephiroth, that's one thing, but bt the time the ballot ended, Cloud wasn't confirmed yet

 

[Lamperouge]

All jokes aside, Ultimate gave me Ridley, Richter, Dark Samus, Byleth, Min Min, and Sephiroth. It also introduced me to some games that are now among my favorites of all time thanks to the inclusions of Joker and Hero.

The newcomers are ****ing great.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Here's a new game.

What were some characters in Smash 4 and Ultimate that you thought were obvious inclusions but seemed to take others by surprise?

For me, Little Mac, Miis and Steve all fit that bill.

 

[Slime Scholar]

Not to my knowledge, though it is very possible I missed that.

Without going into too much detail here, not everything in the Capcom leak has been released online yet. The group responsible has been uploading the files in batches over the past month or so, and only about 200GB of a purported terabyte of data has made its way to the internet.

So it's entirely plausible that something Smash-related exists within the obtained files, even if it's just a money trail or footnote about Mii costumes. With that said, I don't have high hopes for more Capcom stuff outside of the Monster Hunter outfits returning.

Here's a new game.

What were some characters in Smash 4 and Ultimate that you thought were obvious inclusions but seemed to take others by surprise?

For me, Little Mac, Miis and Steve all fit that bill.

I thought people were sleeping on Corrin before they were revealed. Other than that, my track record for calling characters hasn't exactly been stellar.

 

[Technomage]

I've been thinking about ways to theorize who the last 3 would be, and not counting Nintendo chars, the DLC chars so far consisted of those owned by Microsoft, Square, SEGA, and SNK. Since Microsoft and Square both got two reps in DLC, what are the chances of SEGA and SNK getting 2nd reps? And who should those reps be?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Here's a new game.

What were some characters in Smash 4 and Ultimate that you thought were obvious inclusions but seemed to take others by surprise?

For me, Little Mac, Miis and Steve all fit that bill.

I would say Villager for Smash 4 but even that took my by surprise

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I've been thinking about ways to theorize who the last 3 would be, and not counting Nintendo chars, the DLC chars so far consisted of those owned by Microsoft, Square, SEGA, and SNK. Since Microsoft and Square both got two reps in DLC, what are the chances of SEGA and SNK getting 2nd reps? And who should those reps be?

Sega - 50-50 I’d say
SNK: 0%. Terry pretty much represents all of SNK and most of his competition is either a cameo on his stage, a Board Spirit, and/or a costume

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Without going into too much detail here, not everything in the Capcom leak has been released online yet. The group responsible has been uploading the files in batches over the past month or so, and only about 200GB of a purported terabyte of data has made its way to the internet.

So it's entirely plausible that something Smash-related exists within the obtained files, even if it's just a money trail or footnote about Mii costumes. With that said, I don't have high hopes for more Capcom stuff outside of the Monster Hunter outfits returning.

Sweet, thats even better. I personally believe a Capcom rep is likely.

I've been thinking about ways to theorize who the last 3 would be, and not counting Nintendo chars, the DLC chars so far consisted of those owned by Microsoft, Square, SEGA, and SNK. Since Microsoft and Square both got two reps in DLC, what are the chances of SEGA and SNK getting 2nd reps? And who should those reps be?

SNK probably not, Nintendo grabbed so much from them the first time double dipping is unlikely. SEGA is entirely possible, they’ve got quite a few characters that they and Nintendo may want to market.