Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SpecterFlower]

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I could see a Fatal Frame character potentially coming as a base character. Though I would be a little butthurt about not getting an RE or SH character first.

 

[SpecterFlower]

If for the rest of FP2 Nintendo were to choose their most obscure or niche characters who do you think the characters would be?

 

[Perkilator]

If for the rest of FP2 Nintendo were to choose their most obscure or niche characters who do you think the characters would be?

• DeMIlle
• Euden
• Ayumi Tachibana

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Currently in Hades' postgame.
Just waiting for Zaggy for next Smash.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Lets talk archetypes. Have you noticed we dont have many Mage or Spellcaster type characters? I only have counted 3. 4 if you consider Hero's gimmick.

I wonder who could fill this archetype. Tricky because no popular character fits this

The Creator HERSELF... Creator!

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Doshin the giant for Smash

Now that.

That's definitely "Too big" for Smash.

 

[RileyXY1]

Lets talk archetypes. Have you noticed we dont have many Mage or Spellcaster type characters? I only have counted 3. 4 if you consider Hero's gimmick.

I wonder who could fill this archetype. Tricky because no popular character fits this

We have 5 in total: Ness, Lucas, Zelda, Robin, and Hero.

 

[cashregister9]

If for the rest of FP2 Nintendo were to choose their most obscure or niche characters who do you think the characters would be?

-Mappo
-Alessandro Inghazi
-Ando Kensaku

Here is another that I did not just take off of my Spirit Collection

-Kyle Hyde
-Barbara
-Zael

 

[Garteam]

Except Rockstar doesn't have to deal with the legal nightmares of talking to every single copyright owner involved to port the game to a TI-81 calculator, since they own everything that's in the game.

I imagine relicensing GTA V's soundtrack can't be super fun for Rockstar's lawyers.

 

[RileyXY1]

I imagine relicensing GTA V's soundtrack can't be super fun for Rockstar's lawyers.

Yeah. Most of GTA's music is licensed songs.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Currently in Hades' postgame.
Just waiting for Zaggy for next Smash.

Zagreus is Pit/Dark Pit fusion confirmed.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

We have 5 in total: Ness, Lucas, Zelda, Robin, and Hero.

Ness and Lucas are not casters. Anymore than Mewtwo is. They're Psychics. Though you should include Mewtwo otherwise, since they do clearly fit the direct archtype.

That said, one issue is that only Robin and Hero actually focus heavily on spellcasting. Zelda barely does it, and is mostly a monk archtype(much like Ganondorf). Ness/Lucas/Mewtwo barely actually use energy attacks as projectiles, and moreso effectively the same way as Zelda does.

MegaMan actually does a lot of what you'd expect a Spellcaster archtype to do, flinging projectiles everywhere. Ironic too, since he's not a literal caster either. I'd throw him in the archtype, though, if we're counting non actual casters. I think that properly covers everyone who is mainly about a projectile style caster. Maybe Mii Gunner comes close otherwise? I guess?

 

[DarthEnderX]

I’m definitely thinking about championing Kiryu (though I’d prefer Majima).

Majima needs to be an AT, so we can have Majima Everywhere!

But I'd accept Kiryu Brawler and Majima Swordsman Miis.

Lets talk archetypes. Have you noticed we dont have many Mage or Spellcaster type characters? I only have counted 3. 4 if you consider Hero's gimmick.

I wonder who could fill this archetype. Tricky because no popular character fits this

Watch our first FPS being Tracer.

Your first FPS was in Smash 64.

 

[7NATOR]

So there's something I'm wondering

If that Chun-Tales Leak was true, when exactly did those Discussions happen?

I Imagine it could not have happened any later than 2015. I think with the fact that Ken was the only other Street Fighter Character besides Ryu to have a precense in Smash 4, that Ken was probably already decided for the roster (of Ultimate) by the time Ryu was released in June.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

So there's something I'm wondering

If that Chun-Tales Leak was true, when exactly did those Discussions happen?

I Imagine it could not have happened any later than 2015. I think with the fact that Ken was the only other Street Fighter Character besides Ryu to have a precense in Smash 4, that Ken was probably already decided for the roster (of Ultimate) by the time Ryu was released in June.

Echo Fighters likely weren't part of the same considerations as regular fighters due to how quick it is to make them relative to a new fighter, so Chun-Li likely never had any conversations done during base game development.

 

[DevaAshera]

Currently in Hades' postgame.
Just waiting for Zaggy for next Smash.

Not gonna lie, some Hades Spirits would be pretty cool at least..they could use this costume of Dark Pit and give him the Killing Edge or something like that.

 

[7NATOR]

Echo Fighters likely weren't part of the same considerations as regular fighters due to how quick it is to make them relative to a new fighter, so Chun-Li likely never had any conversations done during base game development.

I think Ken is a different situation though

Ken is a 3rd party Character, so even though he is an echo, every design element has to be Agreed to by Capcom.

Plus with the fact that Ken is in a CGI Trailer, same with Richter, but unlike Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus, I do think that Ken might have been decided much Earlier. that's also probably why he has all of his unique stuff

I just can't shake the fact that coincidentally, the only character that had a Presence in Smash 4 besides Ryu was the one that got to be playable

I was unsure of that theory that perhaps Characters like Ryu and Cloud were negotiated for both Smash 4 and Ultimate, but with Ken and Sephiroth both in, after both Had refences to them both in Smash 4 (Sephiroth much more subtly though), I actually do think that perhaps there was some half negotating going on

Like When Ryu and Cloud were initially made DLC, It was probably in the idea that both Ken and Sephiroth would be in the next game, as Smash 4 DLC wasn't going to last too long

That's why with the Chun-Tales leak, I'm starting to think that whole thing was concevied much earlier than what we might expect, Like 2015 at the latest, and perhaps 2014 or even earlier than that.

I've been thinking more about the negotiation cycle when it comes to Smash and it's DLC. With Steve and Sephiroth both in and there being evidence (with Steve being outright confirmed) that they were planned for years and years, That I'm starting to think that the reason Fighter Pass 2 exists is that most of the characters almost or completely done with Negotiations, in that they could finalize everything in a 5-6 month Timespan

I'm going to speculate like Fatmanonice here, But I'm going to say that in the same vain in how the situation with Steve and Banjo, and Hero and Sephiroth, That Sega is also the same situation, and that Another Sonic character was planned for this game around the same time as Steve and Sephiroth. I also think any other 3rd party Character we get probably would have had talks that spurred on for years and years, and if any characters were decided relativly recent, they were first party

And as for Namco and Capcom in terms of unique characters (since Ken is just an echo and Namco has no other character besides PAC-MAN), I have no idea with them.

 

[SNEKeater]

Enjoying Yakuza: Like A Dragon right now. Is it too late to champion a Yakuza rep?

It is never late for that.

I just got into the Yakuza series this year as well. With quarantine allowing me to sink time into some longer games. I’m definitely thinking about championing Kiryu (though I’d prefer Majima). I recently finished Yakuza Kiwami 2 and I’m debating whether I should continue to Yakuza 3 or just jump to Like A Dragon.

I'd suggest to play the series in order, if you can. Specially if you care about the story and characters.
Also, by playing all the previous mainline games you'll probably enjoy Like a Dragon even more because the game is still in the same universe and takes place after Yakuza 6.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Majima needs to be an AT, so we can have Majima Everywhere!

But I'd accept Kiryu Brawler and Majima Swordsman Miis.


View attachment 297815
Your first FPS was in Smash 64.
View attachment 297816

But Metroid Prime came out after Smash 64.

You are right, however, that the first FPS rep was in Smash 64.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ness and Lucas are not casters.

To be fair, their abilities do fall under the "it's not magic I swear!" category.

Zelda barely does it, and is mostly a monk archtype...

?

Nothing about Zelda really screams martial artist. Most of her attacks consist of her waving her arms and attacking with the power of sparkles. I'd say she's a full blown mage, though she's more of a priest/cleric/white mage than a black mage/elementalist.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Your first FPS was in Smash 64.
View attachment 297816

True.

Apparently overlooked that.

Move along then people we already have an FPS in the series and her name is Samus!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Speaking of mages though, can we get a character with the dumb statuses like Sheep and Frog?

NO!

 

[Super Devon]

Adrianette Bromide
red shell pfp
oh god what have I done?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Nothing about Zelda really screams martial artist. Most of her attacks consist of her waving her arms and attacking with the power of sparkles. I'd say she's a full blown mage, though she's more of a priest/cleric/white mage than a black mage/elementalist.

Her Lightning Kick aerials are not mage moves by any means. No more than Ganondorf's magical attacks, anyway.

Monk is not a Martial Artist archtype. Monk means "using energy moves from ones hands/feet/limbs that aren't projectiles". And Zelda has done that before. Also, same with her Down Tilt. That's not really a mage-style move. It's pretty much more a Monk-style. She's mostly mage with a few monk moves, basically.

It's why I never considered her a full blown caster. Because she actually isn't a full blown one. Nor is Hero, either, who crosses that with swordplay. Ness/Lucas/Mewtwo also use a decent amount of monk-like moves along with caster-style moves. It's an issue with filling out a Smash moveset anyway. You can't really just have a projectile only character, which is pretty much what a caster archtype is focused on to begin with. All the casters use other types of archtypal attacks. In addition, few actually really focus on a particular projectile style as well, having other ways to play. Even then, the most projectile heavy is MegaMan, who isn't even a literal caster, but heavily focused on the archtype anyway. And I do remember them having a few energy limb moves, though in that case, I'm pretty sure they're all shoto moves(which is really the only time it's not a monk-related one as is). So he would be closer to a shotoclone/caster archtype if anything.

Archtypes in fighting games kind of get odd, depending how literal one uses the terms. That's why "mages" aren't generally a fighting game archtype anyway. Cause it's really more of a zoner or projectile heavy character. And as I noted, mages come really in two categories. They're basically going to be about projectiles or physical blows. And physical blows are pretty much what a monk is designed as. Projectiles aren't supposed to be a "magic" thing in itself, but many like to confuse Magic with Projectiles only for some reason. Despite magic being used in many different ways. It's why people try to paint Ganondorf as something other than a Magic user, despite using his Darkness magic in a non-projectile way(which is fine).

I could go on, but yeah, archtypes usually don't really fall under "magic" in fighting games for a reason. Since there's too many types of magic to properly use it as a reasonably defined term.

Mind you, I'm not saying this is the best way to look at it or anything like that. But eh. I won't go into some long debate on it either way. I've said my piece. Another way to put it is I consider Ganondorf a magic user just as much as I consider Zelda one. They're just different styles of ones. This is also what I mean by how confusing it can easily get. There's just too many ways to look at it.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I think Ken is a different situation though

Ken is a 3rd party Character, so even though he is an echo, every design element has to be Agreed to by Capcom.

Plus with the fact that Ken is in a CGI Trailer, same with Richter, but unlike Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus, I do think that Ken might have been decided much Earlier. that's also probably why he has all of his unique stuff

I just can't shake the fact that coincidentally, the only character that had a Presence in Smash 4 besides Ryu was the one that got to be playable

I was unsure of that theory that perhaps Characters like Ryu and Cloud were negotiated for both Smash 4 and Ultimate, but with Ken and Sephiroth both in, after both Had refences to them both in Smash 4 (Sephiroth much more subtly though), I actually do think that perhaps there was some half negotating going on

Like When Ryu and Cloud were initially made DLC, It was probably in the idea that both Ken and Sephiroth would be in the next game, as Smash 4 DLC wasn't going to last too long

That's why with the Chun-Tales leak, I'm starting to think that whole thing was concevied much earlier than what we might expect, Like 2015 at the latest, and perhaps 2014 or even earlier than that.

I've been thinking more about the negotiation cycle when it comes to Smash and it's DLC. With Steve and Sephiroth both in and there being evidence (with Steve being outright confirmed) that they were planned for years and years, That I'm starting to think that the reason Fighter Pass 2 exists is that most of the characters almost or completely done with Negotiations, in that they could finalize everything in a 5-6 month Timespan

I'm going to speculate like Fatmanonice here, But I'm going to say that in the same vain in how the situation with Steve and Banjo, and Hero and Sephiroth, That Sega is also the same situation, and that Another Sonic character was planned for this game around the same time as Steve and Sephiroth. I also think any other 3rd party Character we get probably would have had talks that spurred on for years and years, and if any characters were decided relativly recent, they were first party

And as for Namco and Capcom in terms of unique characters (since Ken is just an echo and Namco has no other character besides PAC-MAN), I have no idea with them.

Also, I'll point out that just because a character has been in the talks for years doesn't mean all of them are.

Banjo was worked on only for a year and a half rather than 50 billion like Steve, as revealed by Rare in a blog post for their website.

You're trying to establish that a single instance of something is a pattern when, like, there's literally only one example.

Making a pattern with just one instance of something is, by definition, impossible.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Speaking of mages though, can we get a character with the dumb statuses like Sheep and Frog?
View attachment 297818
NO!

Gonna hit em with the shield break, poison, flower, slowdown, reverse controls and more all at the same time

 

[7NATOR]

Also, I'll point out that just because a character has been in the talks for years doesn't mean all of them are.

Banjo was worked on only for a year and a half rather than 50 billion like Steve, as revealed by Rare in a blog post for their website.

You're trying to establish that a single instance of something is a pattern when, like, there's literally only one example. Making a pattern with just one instance of something is, by definition, impossible.

I get not all of them are, but I do think there is evidence that a good amount were

I think there is merit to Ken and Sephiroth being planned for years and years like Steve.

With Banjo, I thought he benefitted from the Resulting talks about Minecraft in Smash. Seeing how Nintendo and Microsoft were in the same booth talking about Steve already, Negotiating for Banjo took less time than it probably would have otherwise.

Though even with the advantage of a headstart thanks to Steve, a Year and a half is kind of short. I'm guessing the details for Banjo didn't take too long talking to Rare.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Monk is not a Martial Artist archtype. Monk means "using energy moves from ones hands/feet/limbs that aren't projectiles".

I dunno about that. From my experience the monk archetype seems to mean oriental martial artist. For example, DnD Monks are literally just martial artists, with their class abilities allowing you to do exaggerated oriental martial art stuff like hitting things really fast, catching non-magical projectiles, and unarmed combat. Bravely Default's Monk class is like this as well. The benders in Avatar: The Last Airbender do extend this to elemental manipulation, but even with the bending, their fighting styles are still very rooted in martial arts (with a few exceptions).

The odd one out in my experience is Guild Wars's Monk class, and that's because they aren't really monks given either of our definitions, and are basically just priests/clerics with a different name. I personally think Zelda fits that archetype as well since aside from her Starlight Lightning Kicks and her Down Tilt, her attacks are all magical rather than enhanced physical, and her magic (aside from the Phantom) comes from the goddesses rather than ki (or differently, it's based on faith rather than inner focus).

 

[PLATINUM7]

I dunno about that. From my experience the monk archetype seems to mean oriental martial artist. For example, DnD Monks are literally just martial artists, with their class abilities allowing you to do exaggerated oriental martial art stuff like hitting things really fast, catching non-magical projectiles, and unarmed combat. Bravely Default's Monk class is like this as well. The benders in Avatar: The Last Airbender do extend this to elemental manipulation, but even with the bending, their fighting styles are still very rooted in martial arts (with a few exceptions).

The odd one out in my experience is Guild Wars's Monk class, and that's because they aren't really monks given either of our definitions, and are basically just priests/clerics with a different name. I personally think Zelda fits that archetype as well since aside from her Starlight Lightning Kicks and her Down Tilt, her attacks are all magical rather than enhanced physical, and her magic (aside from the Phantom) comes from the goddesses rather than ki (or differently, it's based on faith rather than inner focus).

The Bravely Default monk class would be based off the Final Fantasy monk class, which is based off the DnD monk class, which is based of traditional and stereotypical links of real life monks to the martial arts.

 

[SharkLord]

The Bravely Default monk class would be based off the Final Fantasy monk class, which is based off the DnD monk class, which is based of traditional and stereotypical links of real life monks to the martial arts.

Interestingly, Ryu would actually be the closest we have to a real monk archetype, being the stoic and dutiful martial artist. Ken a bit less so, being a bit flashier and more boastful than one would expect from a monk. Granted, I'm not sure if the shotos really count under the monk archetype in the first place anyways.

 

[Idon]

Her Lightning Kick aerials are not mage moves by any means. No more than Ganondorf's magical attacks, anyway.

Monk is not a Martial Artist archtype. Monk means "using energy moves from ones hands/feet/limbs that aren't projectiles". And Zelda has done that before. Also, same with her Down Tilt. That's not really a mage-style move. It's pretty much more a Monk-style. She's mostly mage with a few monk moves, basically.

It's why I never considered her a full blown caster. Because she actually isn't a full blown one. Nor is Hero, either, who crosses that with swordplay. Ness/Lucas/Mewtwo also use a decent amount of monk-like moves along with caster-style moves. It's an issue with filling out a Smash moveset anyway. You can't really just have a projectile only character, which is pretty much what a caster archtype is focused on to begin with. All the casters use other types of archtypal attacks. In addition, few actually really focus on a particular projectile style as well, having other ways to play. Even then, the most projectile heavy is MegaMan, who isn't even a literal caster, but heavily focused on the archtype anyway. And I do remember them having a few energy limb moves, though in that case, I'm pretty sure they're all shoto moves(which is really the only time it's not a monk-related one as is). So he would be closer to a shotoclone/caster archtype if anything.

Archtypes in fighting games kind of get odd, depending how literal one uses the terms. That's why "mages" aren't generally a fighting game archtype anyway. Cause it's really more of a zoner or projectile heavy character. And as I noted, mages come really in two categories. They're basically going to be about projectiles or physical blows. And physical blows are pretty much what a monk is designed as. Projectiles aren't supposed to be a "magic" thing in itself, but many like to confuse Magic with Projectiles only for some reason. Despite magic being used in many different ways. It's why people try to paint Ganondorf as something other than a Magic user, despite using his Darkness magic in a non-projectile way(which is fine).

I could go on, but yeah, archtypes usually don't really fall under "magic" in fighting games for a reason. Since there's too many types of magic to properly use it as a reasonably defined term.

Mind you, I'm not saying this is the best way to look at it or anything like that. But eh. I won't go into some long debate on it either way. I've said my piece. Another way to put it is I consider Ganondorf a magic user just as much as I consider Zelda one. They're just different styles of ones. This is also what I mean by how confusing it can easily get. There's just too many ways to look at it.

I have not seen a single RPG wherein the monk class is not a traditional martial artist. In fact, it's an entire trope.

As far as Zelda goes, she summons possessed armors, casts remote fireballs, teleports with wind, generates reflective prismatic shields, ignites explosions, blasts people with light...
Ganondorf punches and kicks, occasionally with darkness effects.

I don't think you can look at her victory screens and say "This is a monk archetype, not a mage archetype."

when the monk archetype is...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Gonna hit em with the shield break, poison, flower, slowdown, reverse controls and more all at the same time

Eat your heart out Sephiroth.

 

[metalhydra273]

Only true "mage" I can think of that's under speculation is Arle, which is one of the reasons I'd be excited to see her. Fills several lacking archetypes in smash's roster. We have to assume her hypothetical moveset would involve her spells though rather than be overrun by whatever puyo gimmick she's given. Reimu fits this too I guess but I can't think of much else.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

One thing that's a little funny is that I have not once seen anyone bring up Rosalina & Luma as a mage character even though she literally has a magic wand and uses magical attacks exclusively. Well...Unless her Down Tilt counts as a kick. I'm not sure what that is to be honest. Granted, I don't think she's a part of the mage archetype and is more of her own thing, but it's still funny nonetheless.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Of course, the only Mage I majorly support is Brian. But mostly cause I feel like we barely have the elemental mage design touched. Zelda slightly heads into it, but it's barren at best. A few moves, with a few monk strikes, and then mostly general magical effects(which is its own separate element in Smash incidentally).

Though I do like how Giga Bowser touches upon the elemental attacks a bit too. In a similar way that Ness and Lucas' normals work. That's kind of neat. He'd be a fun echo to add, imo. Or if him having too many moveset changes from Bowser now matters, a regular clone. We kind of lack a good definition of Echo beyond "same bodyshape" anyway.

 

[cothero]

Watch our first FPS being Tracer.

I'll let this video speak for me.

 

[BZocky]

Yes, this is a 4chan post
but he's got a point

Spoiler

View attachment 297800

A full-on deluxe Koopa Troopa Mii brawler costume with a shell that changes color depending on your mii’s favorite color would honestly be pretty neat.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Wait, did the top header change on the site just change now, or was it always there?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Wait, did the top header change on the site just change now, or was it always there?

It changed. The site also popped into full technicolor as well.