Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Commander_Alph]

Even if you counting Japan's familiarity and relevancy with a series it feels like a side dish or a dessert from the main course that is western popularity, this doesn't apply to a series that is crazy popular there in Japan however which always ended with a question "are these in English?"

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Even if you counting Japan's familiarity and relevancy with a series it feels like a side dish or a dessert from the main course that is western popularity, this doesn't apply to a series that is crazy popular there in Japan however which always ended with a question "are these in English?"

Smash Bros is a Japanese series, so that is a factor you have to consider.

 

[Guynamednelson]

mean, yeah, I kinda expect a solo reveal, but I don't see how that means anything.

I'm not sure if you understood what I meant when I said "Ridley/Banjo type character". They'd be hype to those inside the fandom, but not outsiders the way Sephiroth would be.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Man I hope Ayumi or a real "headscratcher" is the E3 reveal.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Smash Bros is a Japanese series, so that is a factor you have to consider.

Yes I know, just saying that they make up a small amount.

 

[MMXZero]

He would do the same for Tekken yes, which is why Sakurai insists he needs to use Tekken's limb system which is the issue he has as it's not quite workable for him

This makes no sense, the only bit of proof we have Sakurai would care about something was when he said why he didn't add a hazard toggle, which he then did the next game anyway, PSABR flopped pretty badly and had infamously troubled development with no future in sight after 9 years so there should be no reason to deliberately avoid it

We actually have more proof then that since Nintendo picked Street Fighter and Bayonetta over Tekken and Devil May Cry. Nintendo clearly made third party choices based on franchises that are closely associated with their brand, while also picking up multiple characters that many have said should have been in PSABR. This also has nothing to do with PSABR's development or sales since that wouldn't effect Nintendo's decisions.

This leads into another point, Nintendo wouldn't care about Tekken or it's limb system since SoulCalibur is associated with their brand due to SoulCalibur II and Link's inclusion. The only problem is Nintendo may not care about dickriding SoulCalibur II nostalgia the same way Bandai Namco is.

 

[SNEKeater]

But do you honestly expect them to keep up the hype? Have we learned nothing from the Grinch Leak and misinterpreted DMC3 news? They already have your money, they don't need to worry about how "bottom of the barrel" a character is.

No offense to those people but the ones who actually believed the DMC3 Switch news was related to Smash were people who either 1. don't know how this industry works or 2. were to excited about the idea of Dante in Smash that they stopped thinking with common sense.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

new characters revealed

this is what you want, right?

Just two more Smash Remix characters left.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

GOTY is being released on the Switch

“Calculator” releasing on Switch tomorrow https://t.co/3BtkoliiAI pic.twitter.com/JkSb5bpMFv

— Nintendo Everything (@NinEverything) May 11, 2021

 

[Deleted member]

Sorry, but I don't think this is a good argument.

Not only did we get so few base game newcomers at launch, the only newcomer that received over half a year of speculation in this span was Inkling, who was in the first teaser trailer. Not even half a year after the reveal of Ridley was the paid DLC announced. Meanwhile, the DLC era has already reached a span of 2 years since Joker's release and already has added higher quantities of unique characters than the base game. Meaning everything post-launch outlasted the initial release window in terms of expectation.

If the logic that these characters are more inclined to be added to the base game worked, there wouldn't be as high a discrepancy between the 2 cycles. At face value, it'd probably be easier to say they never had a chance, rather than tease what could have happened before but didn't.

Did we really get that few? As much as you don't like it, Echo Characters do count, so this past game we got:
1) Daisy
2) Dark Samus
3) Inkling
4) Incineroar
5) Ken
6) King K. Rool
7) Ridley
8) Isabelle
9) Richter
10) Simon
11) Chrom

Plus the returning characters of Wolf, Snake, Pichu, Ice Climbers, and Pokemon Trainer (since we only had Charizard previously) made it feel like there were even more characters added (Pichu in particular hadn't been seen since Melee).

Compare that to Smash U where the newbies were:
1) Bowser Jr.
2) Pac Man
3) Mega Man
4) Rosalina & Luma
5) Shulk
6) Little Mac
7) Dark Pitt
8) Villager
9) Greninja
10) Palutena
11) Wii Fit Trainer
12) Robin
13) Duckhunt Dog
14) Lucina

3 Extra newcomers, however we were down Ice Climbers, Snake, Wolf, Squirtle & Ivysaur, and Pichu while Roy, Mewtwo, and Lucas were paid DLC. So they lost 6 characters (5 if you count Squirtle & Ivysaur as 1) and 3 were demoted and you had to pay to get back.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

We actually have more proof then that since Nintendo picked Street Fighter and Bayonetta over Tekken and Devil May Cry. Nintendo clearly made third party choices based on franchises that are closely associated with their brand, while also picking up multiple characters that many have said should have been in PSABR. This also has nothing to do with PSABR's development or sales since that wouldn't effect Nintendo's decisions.

This leads into another point, Nintendo wouldn't care about Tekken or it's limb system since SoulCalibur is associated with their brand due to SoulCalibur II and Link's inclusion. The only problem is Nintendo may not care about **** riding SoulCalibur II nostalgia the same way Bandai Namco is.

That's not really proof though, for starters, Nintendo was already putting a lot of money into Bayonetta 2, DMC was dormant then, Dante didn't have much Smash demand then as it only really started happening around 2018 with DMCV's hype spreading everywhere and people being more comfortable with characters not directly tied to Nintendo. As for "Others got it first", this can be argued with anything. Sakurai gave Mega Man priority over Street Fighter so clearly Ryu's blacklisted, we got Final Fantasy before Dragon Quest so it's blacklisted, we got Banjo before Minecraft, etc. Also, if Nintendo cared about PSABR, wouldn't we have flatout not gotten Tekken content at all? Instead we have a Mii Costume that was showcased at E3 and a sprite in Pac Man's taunt.


Eh, both have different merits and if Sakurai finds Soul Calibur easier to adapt for a moveset, that's all that'll be a factor if he has to chose between the two. Also, you accidentally broke through the auto censor, you shouldn't get in trouble as it wasn't intentional, but mods do typically get stingy on that

"Big enough for E3" just became a circle jerk about which characters the most vocal old fans view worthy of their time at this point.

So the "Saying E3 needs to have something people will be excited about is gatekeeping" crowd are actually gatekeeping themselves by acting like the Nintendo characters didn't count. Ironic, you'd think they'd be confident because of that

 

[Garteam]

A little over a year ago, a Xenoblade 2 character and especially an ARMS character would have been called "base game picks" and the latter would have been called "bottom of the barrel".

 

[True Blue Warrior]

So the "Saying E3 needs to have something people will be excited about is gatekeeping" crowd are actually gatekeeping themselves by acting like the Nintendo characters didn't count. Ironic, you'd think they'd be confident because of that

If you can show that the vast majority that talk about “E3 needing a big hitter” also acknowledges Nintendo characters like Skull Kid, Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee and Isaac as viable crowd-pleasers, then you can act like there is no problem of gatekeeping when people talk about E3-worthy characters.

A little over a year ago, a Xenoblade 2 character and especially an ARMS character would have been called "base game picks" and the latter would have been called "bottom of the barrel".

A game that sold 2 million being considered bottom of the barrel is hilarious.

 

[Dinoman96]

tbh a lot of people seem to think in hindsight that Smash 4's newcomers, outside of like Little Mac/Villager/Duck Hunt and the third parties, were "bottom of the barrel".

 

[Guynamednelson]

GOTY is being released on the Switch

“Calculator” releasing on Switch tomorrow https://t.co/3BtkoliiAI pic.twitter.com/JkSb5bpMFv

— Nintendo Everything (@NinEverything) May 11, 2021

Did they just straight up steal the buttons from the iPhone's calculator?

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

A game that sold 2 million being considered bottom of the barrel is hilarious.

Sure but unlike other 2 million sellers Nintendo has, ARMS doesn't get discussion outside of Smash, where as Xenoblade 2 is much more discussed and considered more highly of.

 

[PeridotGX]

Alternate universe where they added the guy from Sushi Striker instead of Min Min.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

tbh a lot of people seem to think in hindsight that Smash 4's newcomers, outside of like Little Mac/Villager/Duck Hunt and the third parties, were "bottom of the barrel".

I’d be convinced of that if it weren’t for the fact that every Smash 4 newcomer, no matter how little discussed, is argued to be obvious in hindsight.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Did we really get that few? As much as you don't like it, Echo Characters do count, so this past game we got:
1) Daisy
2) Dark Samus
3) Inkling
4) Incineroar
5) Ken
6) King K. Rool
7) Ridley
8) Isabelle
9) Richter
10) Simon
11) Chrom

Plus the returning characters of Wolf, Snake, Pichu, Ice Climbers, and Pokemon Trainer (since we only had Charizard previously) made it feel like there were even more characters added (Pichu in particular hadn't been seen since Melee).

Compare that to Smash U where the newbies were:
1) Bowser Jr.
2) Pac Man
3) Mega Man
4) Rosalina & Luma
5) Shulk
6) Little Mac
7) Dark Pitt
8) Villager
9) Greninja
10) Palutena
11) Wii Fit Trainer
12) Robin
13) Duckhunt Dog
14) Lucina

3 Extra newcomers, however we were down Ice Climbers, Snake, Wolf, Squirtle & Ivysaur, and Pichu while Roy, Mewtwo, and Lucas were paid DLC. So they lost 6 characters (5 if you count Squirtle & Ivysaur as 1) and 3 were demoted and you had to pay to get back.

...that's a complete stretch.

First off, "Everyone is Here" HARDLY counts. Although a nice idea, Sakurai SPECIFICALLY stated it took them high priority to pull off, in that it would affect the amount of actual newcomers in the base game. You can feel the way you want about the returning veterans, but you CANNOT justify it as part of the newcomer set. If anything, it was a direct hurdle to it.

Second off, why are you subtracting cut veterans from Smash 4? I've never seen anyone do that, and while I can admit Smash 4 had some bad cuts, that wasn't the point at all. But to foster the notion for a bit, cuts are, like it or not, usually necessary, since not every character will be able to fit into a new cycle. In some ways I would argue the lack of cuts in Ultimate led to more problems than it should have.

And even if you do count Echoes (which I admittedly prefer not to since many weren't altered) the amount of newcomers still started off a bit on the small side compared to the amount of newcomers beforehand. Not that comparing it to Smash 4 is all that good an idea in this case, Ultimate recycled most of its assets, which technically include a number of issues present in the previous game.

My reply wasn't even an argument on the amount of newcomers, but a disagreement that there's justification to a character being base-game material in a game where the base game was breezed over for the DLC cycle. At this point in time, Ultimate does have some of the most newcomers, but how does that relate to the "unlucky" candidates that Ultimate presumably glossed over when the game first released?

 

[RGFS]

First off, "Everyone is Here" HARDLY counts. Although a nice idea, Sakurai SPECIFICALLY stated it took them high priority to pull off, in that it would affect the amount of actual newcomers in the base game. You can feel the way you want about the returning veterans, but you CANNOT justify it as part of the newcomer set. If anything, it was a direct hurdle to it.

My reply wasn't even an argument on the amount of newcomers, but a disagreement that there's justification to a character being base-game material in a game where the base game was breezed over for the DLC cycle. At this point in time, Ultimate does have some of the most newcomers, but how does that relate to the "unlucky" candidates that Ultimate presumably glossed over when the game first released?

Saying that base game was glossed over or not that big of a deal is odd considering this was the base game cycle which gave us... well, these characters.

1) Daisy
2) Dark Samus
3) Inkling
4) Incineroar
5) Ken
6) King K. Rool
7) Ridley
8) Isabelle
9) Richter
10) Simon
11) Chrom

A new Mario rep, Splatoon, a new Pokemon, DK's main villain, two Metroid villains and one with a huge amount of requests, a new Animal Crossing rep, Castlevania, and a Fire Emblem rep. That's a solid base game run even without counting the number of newcomers. Three Houses, Arms, and Xenoblade just barely missed the roster so it makes sense to see them come in just now as DLC despite being more like base game picks. They would've likely filled in the base game roster if they had more time and the game's time frames worked out better.

When it comes to fans who like expanding Smash's crossover more than anything, they've only just been getting the majority of content through this DLC cycle. The other Smash Runs of base game or DLC have given them only 2 or 3 third parties. I bet the next base game will only get two third-party series if we're lucky, I don't think it's a big deal at all that third-parties are being given the main chunk of representation now during DLC. Something a character I love like Bandana Dee, unfortunately, doesn't seem likely for.

While we are seeing more purely Nintendo-centric picks way less often right now, it's not even like purely Nintendo fans were left to die even during the first wave of DLC. They all still got Banjo-Kazooie and Byleth. Sure it's not the main representation prioritization right now but still. Now we got Min Min and Pyra/Mythra. Sure, I don't think the discussion should be if they feel like base game or not, but the ones that do are way less frequent right now. Even then, those DLCs we've gotten are still big deal Nintendo picks whether people like them or not. They represent something that was truly absent from the roster. Something as nebulous as "Modern Kirby" still has Kirby as the main face so I doubt this aspect would help someone like Bandana Dee make this round of Smash content... though, I wish it did, it just doesn't fit with anything we've seen so far. Waluigi is talked about enough for Smash to be a big deal so I could see him happening in some form.

My hope is that we do at least get a few base game Ken feeling echoes as DLC like Dixie, Impa, Black Shadow, Octoling, etc. Maybe in a future base game, they could also become even more separated from the original fighter. This would at least be something cool to see for them in this game when their appearances don't seem to be prioritized by Smash Bros right now. It would also make more excluded feeling Nintendo fans who identify with those characters instead of the other Nintendo-centric DLC we've gotten feel more included. A good way to end Ultimate IMO.

 

[SNEKeater]

I'll bring you the Chun-Li gameplay trailer in Power Ranger: Battle of the Grid that has just been released

Not long ago it was Fortnite, now it's Power Rangers... I'm slowly being convinced that she's going to make it into Smash sooner or later.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

A little over a year ago, a Xenoblade 2 character and especially an ARMS character would have been called "base game picks" and the latter would have been called "bottom of the barrel".

And three years ago, when Smash was announced in March without a title, everyone said that Rex & Pyra and Spring-Man were definitely going to be in the game as newcomers. Despite that, they were already being called bottom of the barrel.
Maybe it's a large freaking flat barrel, explaining why every single pick is apparently at the bottom.

 

[Dukefire]

This month may not be the time for announcements as I can say that Finals are in progress. So, beginning of summer may be the time.

We don't know who and when the remaining two challengers for FP2 will drop. It could be a character that was in consideration during smash bros's earlier days, a requested character for a long while, one that was in development for years thanks to an agreement, or even one that not a lot have seen coming.

Just remember that coincidences, and "leaks" doesn't mean a guarantee THAT character(s) is the next challenger for Smash Ultimate.

 

[Guynamednelson]

A little over a year ago, a Xenoblade 2 character and especially an ARMS character would have been called "base game picks" and the latter would have been called "bottom of the barrel".

pov: it's november 2019 and you're suggesting to the newcomer thread that fighters pass 2 might start with min min

 

[Technomage]

Absolutely not, and the hype for more DLC isn't dead just because there are gaps between reveals. This is yet again proof of Smash's weird isolation and echo chamber in terms of only experiencing things from their one game franchise and not getting similar experiences from others.

Tekken 7 first released on March 18th, 2015. The first Season Pass was available on June 1st, 2017. That means the Tekken 7 was relatively a vanilla game experience for over two years before it got more content, and that content made them a crap-ton of money for way less investment than a new game, so they have kept doing it. Their most recent DLC was a new character and stage just this March, on the 23rd.

I REPEAT: Tekken 7 had almost no additional content for over TWO YEARS, yet they still have made so much money once they started that they haven't stopped even into 2021.

Put that into perspective for Smash for a moment. Sure, Tekken is popular (really popular I might add), but a two year gap of major content updates? Also, eventually Tekken will run out of beloved characters to include and will have to move on. And yet, you guys think Smash will suffer from a lack of hype just because a couple months went by and the most recent addition wasn't earth-shatteringly hype? A game with an ever-growing list of character requests that will never have the same issues as any other iconic series within it's genre?

You can of course look into Street Fighter V, Dragon Ball FighterZ, basically any Blazblue title, Samurai Showdown and Soul Calibur 6 for more proof of the success of DLC and how normal it is to have multiple months of time in-between new DLCs and information on them. In fact, Capcom is a great example: They usually only made announcements at major events like Capcom Pro Tour, E3 and EVO with sometimes some others sprinkled in. Recently, they have taken a better approach where they basically have their own Sakurai Presents from time to time for both Monster Hunter and SFV in which they reveal more than one thing and have extended breakdowns of the coming content.

Basically, almost EVERY company that does DLC now only gives you information in portions throughout it's development, but teases a Season Pass or a Roadmap or some **** so that you know that more is coming and roughly how much more, just not exactly WHAT that more is. Smash isn't doing anything new in this regard, it's just still new to people who's only major experience with DLC is with Ultimate, which is on those of you who that applies to for having a lack of experience. The reason why you needn't worry about a gap in time between more content is because it's literally designed around said gap.

Just look at what we do here: we are here regularly talking about who or what the next character could be, and that speculation is built out of a desire for more content and our hype for the next reveal. The second anything that COULD contain the next DLC character is announced, social media *ing explodes with comments and content, all flooded with hype and speculation on who it is and with little care about anything else that could be announced. The day of everyone gets all ready with their reactions and get super stoked and just can't wait to see who it is. When it's a crazy hype pick, the internet breaks with how excited people are; if they aren't as hype, it's still generally flooded with intrigue over what gameplay will be like and what specifics we don't know yet. The anticipation for the Sakurai Presents builds and builds until finally we get that beloved man we love breaking down the most recent character and telling us what they come with and when we can get them. Then the desire to play them builds up until they release, people buy and play the ever-loving * out of them and everyone has a great time. Content creators overwhelm us with stuff to watch, from funny compilations to pro play to glitches and new tech and more and more that even when we aren't playing we are still consuming media about that new character well after their new luster starts to fade. Then finally, the smoke has cleared and everyone realizes we still have more DLC and the cycle begins anew with the speculation and the waiting game giving the needed reprieve from the insane amount of hype drummed up for each new character.

DLC is an amazing marketing tool: the concept of taking a game that already exists and has a dedicated fanbase and adding new content and making some changes to the gameplay for a smaller price than a brand-new game. It's like putting on a fresh coat of paint on your walls in a room: it's still the same room and the same house, but it looks nicer and makes you want to spend more time in that room for a while. It's perfectly engineered to make money by bringing back people who already want a reason to keep playing the game. For fighting games, now you have brand new matchups to learn and possible a new character to main; FPS get new guns to try out and maps to memorize, and so on and so forth throughout each genre. Thus, there is absolutely no reason to worry about reception in the event of more DLC after Pass 2, because most of you guys have somehow convinced yourself it won't happen, so when it does the internet will explode and we'll be right back on board the hype train.

I also feel like this weird 'we don't need more DLC' take stems from either selfishness or from an odd inappropriate application of sympathy. Taking on the entitlement first, sometimes I feel like this community thinks it should have new content rotating out the door every ****ing month, and yet still moan and groan when it wasn't exactly what they wanted as an individual. People need to realize that content takes time to make no matter how many people are working on it, and the better the quality and larger the quantity, the more time it's gonna take to get it done. How many people have forgotten that, much like Tekken 7 and SFV, Ultimate JUST had new DLC in March with Pyra/Mythra? It's been just over two months, I think you can wait a bit longer until E3 y'all. Complaining about Pyra/Mythra not being hype? Dude, we just had one of the most iconic villains in gaming history and the funny block man himself before this, I think you can let this one slide.

As for the weird sympathy thing, I think a lot of people think Sakurai is slaving away and they want him to take a break, but he's been on record multiple times stating he is really enjoying himself and I think it's clear he realizes this is his biggest (and likely last) opportunity to make Smash as big as it ever can be. Do you know what kind of motivation that is? A series you crafted of the biggest and most-loved faces in gaming beating the **** outta each other is at an all-time high and you have the support to get in almost any character you can get your hands on AND it's much less taxing to do so since it's all DLC? AND you, the company who owns the game, and all the third party companies involved are making absurd amounts of moolah? Sakurai is living the dream right now, why in the hell would he want to stop? Hell, during the pandemic, he got to work from home and thus theoretically spend more time with his wife. Damn man, what is there to feel sorry about other than the community being insatiable troglodytes and that for a moment the pro community measured a bit too high on the pedometer?

This wild ride ain't over yet bois. Yee-haw!

Pretty interesting points; I guess the DLC era won't get stale like I thought it would. ^^

Though I do gotta say, I don't think the era would go on for too much longer (I'm not sure if it would last for 5 more years, for instance), since the Switch has a finite amount of resources in regards to holding content, and is less powerful than the likes of the PS4 and XBox 1.

 

[SharkLord]

I think the problem with being "Big enough for E3" is that we only ever debate about whether or not it can/has to be "big," without ever talking about who could potentially fit that category. We're trying too hard to define the parameters, and we never do anything with those parameters.

 

[Technomage]

You also have to take into account that three years of pseudo-regular paid DLC is longer, by far, than basically any other Nintendo game. Looking at other games by other companies in the same genre is one thing but you also have to take into account who we're dealing with here.

We're dealing with the company that hasn't made any paid DLC for a Mario Kart that's going to end up selling over 40 million units. They do not milk DLC for everything it's worth.

Interesting, and Nintendo is known for milking things; I guess even they have standards there, huh?

 

[Cosmic77]

It's kind of hilarious seeing people claim Min Min is far more "bottom of the barrel" than Pyra/Mythra when only a few years ago Shulk was deemed so unimportant in the West by Nintendo that they revealed him in a Japan-only Nintendo Direct and casually announced him worldwide the next day.

I'm sure most people would say Xenoblade is a slightly bigger deal than ARMS, but that's only because the former has gotten a few more games since Smash 4. Regardless, it's not like we're comparing Mario to EarthBound. Both Xenoblade and ARMS are relatively small compared to most of Nintendo's other IPs, so I don't think fans of either game are really in a position to act superior to the other.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I think the problem with being "Big enough for E3" is that we only ever debate about whether or not it can/has to be "big," without ever talking about who could potentially fit that category. We're trying too hard to define the parameters, and we never do anything with those parameters.

Well in that case, I feel like they'd be third party characters that are pretty well known by a majority of gamers whether only in Japan, US or worldwide.

These are the main characters I think could potentially fit that category, and most of them are western characters.

• Master Chief
• Crash Bandicoot
• Lara Croft
• Ezio
• Scorpion
• Gordon Freeman
• Dante
• CJ or Trevor
• Kratos
• Reimu
• Arle

That said, I'd like to point out that in the Smash 4, the biggest character reveal wasn't an E3 reveal, but in a standard Nintendo Direct and that was .

 

[SharkLord]

Another thing I'll add to the topic:

• There is precedence for E3 having a big reveal to capitalize on the attention. Not necessarily all big reveals, but at least one big reveal.
• There is also precedence for Smash frontloading the cycle and ending on a relatively low note

This leaves us with two opposite precedences that haven't overlapped before, aside from maybe E3 2014. Even then, that was a much different time, and kind of an outlier anyways, what with it's Smash Roundtable and focus on the Miis. Regardless, to our knowledge neither precedence is more dominant than the other, which leads to multiple different scenarios. Maybe we'll get one last big reveal, maybe we'll get a smaller one, maybe somewhere in between. There's also the question of whether or not it would be a dual reveal, but I don't need that can of worms open right now.

 

[Guynamednelson]

aside from maybe E3 2014. Even then, that was a much different time, and kind of an outlier anyways, what with it's Smash Roundtable and focus on the Miis.

I feel like the "we already have your money, we can add whoever we want" phase for Smash 4's base game really started with the leaking of the unlockables. Bowser Jr. isn't gonna really sell copies of 4, you know Mario fans would've already been interested.

 

[Dukefire]

Yeah, discussing it as the days count down tends to make one's mind regardless of sane or not can go mad. With two open slots left for FP2 and DLC being finalized with no advancement is causing a rush.

As we have experienced salt countless time already, no matter how careful we try to approach each new announcement. There is always those that aren't happy.

 

[PacificFun]

"Big enough for E3" just became a circle jerk about which characters the most vocal old fans view worthy of their time at this point.

E3 2013...Mega Man, Wii Fit and Villager we're pretty sizable reveals. E3 2014...Palutena and Dark Pit not so much but they were accompanied by freaking Mii and amiibo (and PAC-MAN but he wasn't apart of the E3 presentation). E3 2015...Ryu accompanied by Roy (fan request) was a big deal. E3 2018...Ridley and Daisy are pretty huge reveals (and of course, everyone is here). E3 2019 had Hero and Banjo, also two huge reveals.

Joker and Sephiroth were revealed at The Game Awards but Byleth was not.

Last year, there was no E3 due to Covid but I'm pretty sure in a alternate reality, we would have had Steve at E3 2020 alongside Min Min.

What I'm trying to say is that "Big enough for E3" isn't really a fan thing. Nintendo pulls out the big guns if Smash is at E3 as history shows.

 

[Guynamednelson]

"Big enough for E3" isn't really a fan thing.

It kind of is, because Steve and Ridley aren't going to appeal to the same amount of people, and Banjo-Kazooie had detractors who thought Minecraft would be a huge obstacle for them and not what helped them get into Smash.

 

[SharkLord]

It kind of is, because Steve and Ridley aren't going to appeal to the same amount of people, and Banjo-Kazooie had detractors who thought Minecraft would be a huge obstacle for them and not what helped them get into Smash.

The thing is, "Big enough" is a pretty broad statement and there's a lot of characters you could fit in there. Precedence has held up for the most part and E3 having big characters isn't entirely made up by the speculative scene; It's what they do with it.

And in our case, what we do with it is debate the topic in circles and never actually discuss anyone. For all the irritation over "gatekeeping" and the like, I don't really see characters being shot down... Or characters in general, really. It feels like we only ever talk about whether or not they have to be big without actually talking about anyone in particular.

Or maybe that's just me glazing over another unengaging argument for the umpteenth time. That too; After a while you just learn to skip the debates to spare yourself.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Actually believing we are getting a character revealed at E3

 

[PacificFun]

It kind of is, because Steve and Ridley aren't going to appeal to the same amount of people, and Banjo-Kazooie had detractors who thought Minecraft would be a huge obstacle for them and not what helped them get into Smash.

"Big" means different things. In the case for say Ridley and Banjo, its because they've been requested for like twenty godamn years (not consecutively of course but still). It was their "homecoming" so to speak. And characters like Steve, Daisy or Sephiroth are just big mass appeal characters.

Nintendo can be incompetent, but they weren't incompetent enough to reveal Byleth at The Game Awards (even if it made sense due to Three Houses winning some awards).

At E3, they want big names so they can get attention in the spotlight. Imagine if at E3 2014, Palutena (and Dark Pit) were the only reveals and nothing else?

 

[Louie G.]

My stance on E3 remains this - we aren’t obligated to get a massive reveal if there are simply not huge characters left. A character will show up regardless because Smash DLC needs to move ahead.

But if the DLC timeline hasn’t been impacted too hard from COVID (according to them it hasn’t) I anticipate they probably saved something relatively significant for a general and/or western audience for E3 as per usual.

If we get two reveals, one of them need not abide by the “big enough” standard because they’ll be carried by the later reveal. In this case I’d anticipate another situation like Hero and Banjo where they cover both major demographics at once.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Don-chan wouldnt be big because barely anyone even cares about Taiko no Tatsujin besides rhythm game lovers lol

 

[Guynamednelson]

"Big" means different things. In the case for say Ridley and Banjo, its because they've been requested for like twenty godamn years (not consecutively of course but still). It was their "homecoming" so to speak. And characters like Steve, Daisy or Sephiroth are just big mass appeal characters.

Exactly. And when people say E3 has to have a "hype" reveal, they're mainly concentrating on the latter(mass appeal)'s "hype" and not the former's. That's what I mean when I say that it's a fan thing to assume the E3 reveal has to be "big", those fans aren't focusing on what made "big", just .