Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Deleted member]

"Big" means different things. In the case for say Ridley and Banjo, its because they've been requested for like twenty godamn years (not consecutively of course but still). It was their "homecoming" so to speak. And characters like Steve, Daisy or Sephiroth are just big mass appeal characters.

Nintendo can be incompetent, but they weren't incompetent enough to reveal Byleth at The Game Awards (even if it made sense due to Three Houses winning some awards).

At E3, they want big names so they can get attention in the spotlight. Imagine if at E3 2014, Palutena (and Dark Pit) were the only reveals and nothing else?

Daisy 'mass appealed' to one nutjob specifically, she was no way near the same category as Steve or Sephiroth.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I imagine we're at a point where anything is possible if we get an E3 reveal. We can get a huge character reveal, we can get a double reveal, we can get two lowkey reveals, we can get nothing.

The DLC schedule needs to continue here, after all. If it happens to be a huge name at E3 then that is a bonus. If not then at least the cycle is progressing at a decent-ish pace.

 

[SharkLord]

Exactly. And when people say E3 has to have a "hype" reveal, they're mainly concentrating on the latter(mass appeal)'s "hype" and not the former's. That's what I mean when I say that it's a fan thing to assume the E3 reveal has to be "big", those fans aren't focusing on what made "big", just .

To be fair, there aren't much fan favorites left that are obvious. After the three you mentioned, I suppose the absolute showstoppers fan-wise would be the likes of Geno, Isaac, and Waluigi... Who either have been Mii'd or have an Assist Trophy. The former most likely deconfirms and there's still debate on the latter, so they won't get nearly as much traction. After that, I guess it's Bandana Dee? But while popular, he doesn't really strike me as someone who's hit the same level as the three mentioned before. Maybe it's because he still has a consistent major role in his home games and they're not hinging on Smash to give him a chance to shine?

Then again, the overall speculation scene has shifted towards third-parties during the DLC, so that could be giving me a different message as well.

 

[Louie G.]

That's what I mean when I say that it's a fan thing to assume the E3 reveal has to be "big", those fans aren't focusing on what made "big", just .

The community’s standard of “big” has been stretched a lot since even Ultimate’s base game, where now the standard is that a massive E3 reveal ought to be at the same level of notoriety as the cream of the crop of gaming icons. I look forward to see whether or not this perspective is challenged moving ahead.

If I had to guess we probably do have one more Steve / Sephiroth in store since honestly it just feels like this is the direction FP2 wants to take, reaching an even wider audience, but I hope we’ll see at least another more humbling third party pick by the end .

 

[Guynamednelson]

The community’s standard of “big” has been stretched a lot since even Ultimate’s base game, where now the standard is that a massive E3 reveal ought to be at the same level of notoriety as the cream of the crop of gaming icons.

Yes, but one of those "big" characters in the former category was still DLC, a DLC fighter who, again, had people go "they'd never add him when Minecraft sold way more". I wish more people remembered that.

Seriously am I the only ****ing one who remembered why people were on Team Steve in Banjo vs. Steve flamewars for reasons other than "I'm too young to have grown up on the N64"?

 

[Louie G.]

Daisy 'mass appealed' to one nutjob specifically, she was no way near the same category as Steve or Sephiroth.

This is a ridiculous thing to say, because Daisy is still a Mario character (a popular and recurring one at that) and is more recognizable to the general public than 90% of the roster.

I’d wager plenty of ballot votes went toward characters like her who more casual gamers were likely scratching their heads over being omitted (which also sheds light on the very widespread outcry for Waluigi). We may have a wider perspective of who could be added and who could be exciting, but for many people someone like Daisy does the trick.

Similarly no average joe is gonna get upset that Daisy or Waluigi aren’t staples of the main series games, etc. We put a lot of odd standards on otherwise inoffensive and obvious characters.

 

[N3ON]

Someone hasn't been paying attention to how much money companies make from DLC and micro-transactions, or you would know that these things make WAAAAAAAY more money than games themselves.



I like how you pick out Mike Jones out of 20+ choices, ignore the fact that these characters would make money in DLC by saying 'they feel like base game characters', and don't even address what I said about shilling or new games/new IPs and then say 'Yeah, bottom of the barrel' in the face of the most requested Mario rep, most requested Zelda rep, most requested Kirby rep, most requested Mother rep, most requested Star Fox rep, most requested DK rep, and characters that have had lots of requests that also fall into these big franchises or others.

Clearly, 'bottom of the barrel' means different things for us, because you somehow think that list compares with Style Savvy.

Also, please stop suggesting that someone who thinks more DLC is happening is immediately calling Sakurai a liar...despite the fact he's gone back on things he's said multiple times. I would never say that. If you expand your thought processing, you can clearly see that we still have two more characters coming and that when Steve was revealed we had three. That is multiple months of time, plenty of time for the numbers for Steve to show up and for Furakawa to fall off his chair when he saw them.

It's completely possible that something Sakurai said in the past was true then, but situations changed upon review, and now things are different. In addition to this, Sakurai could still give the same language or similar to it up until more DLC gets announced due to the fact that it would have a scheduled time to be revealed and he has to avoid breaking NDA.

Also, not everyone I debate with is a pessimist, but many of the people I've encountered here on this forum definitely side with assuming the worst over the best or even just being a realist. For an example, I would say that @NonSpecificGuy is a realist since he's looking at the typical life expectancy of a Nintendo console and using that as a frame of reference, and even suggests that he could be wrong and isn't discarding anything without proper address, nor gives off any sensation of being convinced it won't happen. However, when you yourself flat out say that you are expecting the end while ignoring signs of more DLC and tossing away others, I can't help but see that as trying to make things align with a pessimistic viewpoint. You can want something and still convince yourself it won't happen and thus only see what you allow yourself to.

If you want to say that I'm too positive about this whole thing I'll wear that with pride, but I consider myself a realist that just has more hope than most and prefers to be upbeat than not. You should hear me in my outside discussions, my friends often ride my ass for being too negative. I'll admit when I'm wrong, and I'll straight up say that I could easily be incorrect and the DLC could just end this year and that will be all she wrote until five years from now when we have a roster of only twenty characters. However, the information I've gathered leads me to be very confidant in my stance, something I normally am not...whether you believe that to be the case or not.

Also, you are kinda just wrong about Sephiroth and Pyra/Mythra there, but if you don't know that's probably for the best. Privacy is policy and honestly, it's hard to really give credit, so it would be better if they came back mmm...richer.



My reference point is the beginning of success of extensive DLC for companies of that nature of games, with a long line of similar practices following it. You are right that it isn't the same company and that Nintendo does their own thing a lot, but being quirky can't hold up as an argument forever, especially as Nintendo becomes more and more Fortune 500 in behavior more rapidly...but hopefully not as in BHVR.

Also, I find it funny how Namco has this practice, and Namco is helping with development of Ultimate. Huh, that happened with Smash 4 as well, and that got DLC too...maybe Namco is rubbing off on them in a good way? Just something interesting to think about I suppose.



Plot Twist: Splatoon 3 is exclusive to the "New" Nintendo Switch! Thus it doesn't technically crush Splatoon 2's play base despite being an unsupported game already, or at least not as fast since people will have to buy both the game and the new console to play. Kinda like Brawl or Melee, but much closer in relation.

I'm very happy about that upgrade to Super Mario Party btw.

When Sakurai repeatedly implies that development is ending after this pass, three years in to DLC, going "but Tekken" is certainly not being a realist. It's the ForsakenM standard, denial.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's kind of hilarious seeing people claim Min Min is far more "bottom of the barrel" than Pyra/Mythra when only a few years ago Shulk was deemed so unimportant in the West by Nintendo that they revealed him in a Japan-only Nintendo Direct and casually announced him worldwide the next day.

I'm sure most people would say Xenoblade is a slightly bigger deal than ARMS, but that's only because the former has gotten a few more games since Smash 4. Regardless, it's not like we're comparing Mario to EarthBound. Both Xenoblade and ARMS are relatively small compared to most of Nintendo's other IPs, so I don't think fans of either game are really in a position to act superior to the other.

Sure let's completely ignore how people actively campaigned to bring Xenoblade to the US and how people refused to shut up about Xenoblade at all ever since 2017 until the Mii costume happened, in which discussion dipped for a bit before Rex got in the top 3 most discussed characters on the thread, that's less bottom of the barrel than a franchise nobody talked about for a year and a half until Nintendo said "It's an ARMS character see you in 3 months"

 

[Technomage]

New topic: What characters would make good Premium Mii costumes in the same vein as Cuphead, Bomberman, Sans, and Vault Boy? My ideas:

Rayman
Shovel Knight
Conker
Ratchet
Arthur (too bad he was added as a regular Mii costume)
Final Fantasy characters with the proportions they have in Opera Omnia

 

[Perkilator]

The main characters I'm hoping for at E3 are any one or two of Sora, Crash, BWD and Dr. Eggman. I think these characters could work at E3 for different reasons.

• Sora: Relatively popular character (especially after KH3)
• Crash Bandicoot: Long-lasting rival of Mario and Sonic as well as a general gaming icon
• Bandana Waddle Dee: Specific fan request, similar to Ridley and King K. Rool
• Dr. Eggman: An ever bigger general gaming icon that even most people who don't play Sonic games would recognize

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Sora: Relatively popular character

I never expected the KH stan to downplay the absolute **** out of Sora's popularity, goddamn

 

[Perkilator]

I never expected the KH stan to downplay the absolute **** out of Sora's popularity, goddamn

I...wasn't downplaying it at all. I knew Sora was popular but I forgot just HOW popular (hence my "relatively" statement from earlier).

But then again, selling 32 million copies series wide is certainly nothing to sneeze at.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The thing is, "Big enough" is a pretty broad statement and there's a lot of characters you could fit in there.

Sol Badguy and Adol Christin would make sense as dual E3 reveals.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I...wasn't downplaying it at all. I knew Sora was popular but I forgot just HOW popular (hence my "relatively" statement from earlier).

But then again, selling 32 million copies series wide is certainly nothing to sneeze at.

Saying Sora is relatively popular is like saying that some people believe the Earth is round, I don't like KH but Sora is absolute huge

 

[chocolatejr9]

I...wasn't downplaying it at all. I knew Sora was popular but I forgot just HOW popular (hence my "relatively" statement from earlier).

But then again, selling 32 million copies series wide is certainly nothing to sneeze at.

And we all know Disney likes money. Not saying it'll happen, but I guess it's more likely than people give it credit for...

That being said, Sora is one of MANY characters who I feel HAS to be announced at E3, otherwise they're not getting in. No way they'd save him for Fighter 11.

 

[Gnateb]

And we all know Disney likes money. Not saying it'll happen, but I guess it's more likely than people give it credit for...

That being said, Sora is one of MANY characters who I feel HAS to be announced at E3, otherwise they're not getting in. No way they'd save him for Fighter 11.

One of the reasons I think DS could get in is it's place in relation to KH. It's the next best selling RPG franchise worldwide.

 

[SharkLord]

Sol Badguy and Adol Christin would make sense as dual E3 reveals.

I'm not exactly sure how much water that holds when there's, y'know, not any reasoning beyond "Big is a broad term." I certainly wouldn't say no to this scenario, but I'm not gonna say yes just because. Not to sound too pushy, but I feel we'd need some more reasons for why they'd make sense as a dual reveal beyond "just because."

 

[Guynamednelson]

Seriously am I the only ****ing one who remembered why people were on Team Steve in Banjo vs. Steve flamewars for reasons other than "I'm too young to have grown up on the N64"?

Well, I technically got my answer: At least two other people remembered it.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. And the past that the Smash fandom is condemned to repeat is assuming a character like Banjo-Kazooie can never, under any circumstances, join the battle as DLC before a character like Steve or even Terry or Byleth.

 

[Stratos]

Abe from Oddworld would come as a newcomer to the next PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale video game, but the series was canceled for some reason. So since he could not get his place there, he could be given the opportunity to come as a DLC newcomer to Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. It could be his Final Smash when he transforms into Shrykull. From the same series could come another named Stranger who he use small creatures as weapons. Stranger at the beginning of the video game seems to be bipedal but then it is revealed that in reality his species is like a centaur. They could serve these two appearances as his alternative costumes.

 

[Eldrake]

So apparently there was an interview with Gabe Newell, and he said that steam might be expanding to consoles. The recording wasn't very audible to me, and I can't find a full interview, so I can't really confirm anything, but it got me thinking. What would happen to future Smash speculation if one day Steam and its entire library of games was suddenly available on Switch?
And keep in mind this wouldn't just be Valve games like Half-Life and Dota 2, this would also include the myriad of games available on Steam but not on Switch.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Well, I technically got my answer: At least two other people remembered it.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. And the past that the Smash fandom is condemned to repeat is assuming a character like Banjo-Kazooie can never, under any circumstances, join the battle as DLC before a character like Steve or even Terry.

For what it is worth, the arguments against Banjo & Kazooie greatly parallel those against K. Rool.

The fact that we got Terry, a character most would have dismissed due to “obscurity” before the SNK leak, reminds me that we must keep our minds open to a broader range of characters. In that regard, someone like Sol Badguy being revealed at E3 is completely believable.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So apparently there was an interview with Gabe Newell, and he said that steam might be expanding to consoles. The recording wasn't very audible to me, and I can't find a full interview, so I can't really confirm anything, but it got me thinking. What would happen to future Smash speculation if one day Steam and its entire library of games was suddenly available on Switch?
And keep in mind this isn't just Valve games like Half-Life and Dota 2, this would also include the myriad of games available on Steam but not on Switch.

The floodgates wouldn't be open, they'd be ****ing removed entirely

 

[Guynamednelson]

he said that steam might be expanding to consoles.

Is this something other than the Steam integration in the PS3 version of Portal 2?

 

[Louie G.]

Well, I technically got my answer: At least two other people remembered it.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. And the past that the Smash fandom is condemned to repeat is assuming a character like Banjo-Kazooie can never, under any circumstances, join the battle as DLC before a character like Steve or even Terry or Byleth.

I hope you didn’t misunderstand what I was saying - I wasn’t justifying that mindset from the community because I greatly disagree with it. I was just acknowledging how the community has reached a point where their standards are monumentally high for third parties after two of the biggest additions period.

The Banjo and Steve wars, retrospectively, never made a whole lot of sense because aside from those two games having virtually no overlap in general appeal, genre, style, pretty much anything... they are both characters who had ample merit in their own right and were judged accordingly regardless of sharing an owner.

Of course I understand that at the time it felt like companies were gonna be one and done with no certain future for DLC, but I think that kind of debate bred a lot of unhealthy grudges toward both of those characters that lingered around well beyond their respective reveals. Notably people still treating Banjo like a nobody or judging Steve for being a “kiddy” game or whatever.

 

[Stratos]

For what it is worth, the arguments against Banjo & Kazooie greatly parallel those against K. Rool.

The fact that we got Terry, a character most would have dismissed due to “obscurity” before the SNK leak, reminds me that we must keep our minds open to a broader range of characters. In that regard, someone like Sol Badguy being revealed at E3 is completely believable.

That's right.

 

[Gengar84]

While we are on the subject about hype character reveals, it got me to wonder about something. Does anyone know how many characters we’ve gotten so far as DLC that either didn’t have a support thread here or had very few posts if there was one? I can’t remember whether there was a Sephiroth or Terry support thread for example. I think it would be a fun surprise if we got another character that nobody is talking about but is still fun and exciting in their own right.

On a related note, are there any characters you would love to see that you don’t think anyone else but you want? I would personally love to see Zegram Ghart from Rogue Galaxy but it’s rare to find anyone else that even knows he exists.

 

[Louie G.]

Does anyone know how many characters we’ve gotten so far as DLC that either didn’t have a support thread here or had very few posts if there was one?

Well...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

While we are on the subject about hype character reveals, it got me to wonder about something. Does anyone know how many characters we’ve gotten so far as DLC that either didn’t have a support thread here or had very few posts if there was one? I can’t remember whether there was a Sephiroth or Terry support thread for example. I think it would be a fun surprise if we got another character that nobody is talking about but is still fun and exciting in their own right.

Richter too I believe

 

[SharkLord]

So apparently there was an interview with Gabe Newell, and he said that steam might be expanding to consoles. The recording wasn't very audible to me, and I can't find a full interview, so I can't really confirm anything, but it got me thinking. What would happen to future Smash speculation if one day Steam and its entire library of games was suddenly available on Switch?
And keep in mind this wouldn't just be Valve games like Half-Life and Dota 2, this would also include the myriad of games available on Steam but not on Switch.

Gordon Freeman would immediately shoot up in discussion, and would gain more support as a result of him seeming more possible. TF2 might get some more discussion as well, but it seems like Freeman is considered the frontrunner for Valve.

There'd certainly be some debates on whether or not Steam counts as a "true" appearance, since the developers might not have any interactions with Nintendo. Sorta like how we can't seem to decide on what the Touhou fangames mean for Reimu. On that note, debates on Reimu are gonna get even muddier, since a large portion of Touhou is on Steam already.

Also SKX31 will get free reign over popping the %$#@ off about Dota 2 and that is a powerful scenario indeed.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I hope you didn’t misunderstand what I was saying - I wasn’t justifying that mindset from the community because I greatly disagree with it. I was just acknowledging how the community has reached a point where their standards are monumentally high for third parties after two of the biggest additions period.

I did understand that. What I meant is that these absurdly high standards could be seen long before we got Steve, and it was hard for many to believe Banjo & Kazooie could have a chance until they were revealed. We are seeing this continue with many believing the E3 reveal/last two characters cannot be a first party/anything else that'd appeal to less people than Master Chief would.

 

[Eldrake]

Is this something other than the Steam integration in the PS3 version of Portal 2?

Unsure. That's why I tried to find the full interview and a transcript to see if he elaborated on exactly what he meant and if he really did say something like that, but couldn't find one.

 

[Pillow]

Well, I technically got my answer: At least two other people remembered it.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. And the past that the Smash fandom is condemned to repeat is assuming a character like Banjo-Kazooie can never, under any circumstances, join the battle as DLC before a character like Steve or even Terry or Byleth.

Excuse me sir, this is a Wendy’s

While we are on the subject about hype character reveals, it got me to wonder about something. Does anyone know how many characters we’ve gotten so far as DLC that either didn’t have a support thread here or had very few posts if there was one? I can’t remember whether there was a Sephiroth or Terry support thread for example. I think it would be a fun surprise if we got another character that nobody is talking about but is still fun and exciting in their own right.

On a related note, are there any characters you would love to see that you don’t think anyone else but you want? I would personally love to see Zegram Ghart from Rogue Galaxy but it’s rare to find anyone else that even knows he exists.

They both had threads.

 

[JustPlainDan]

So it’s been a while since I’ve checked things out here; anything noteworthy to discuss, or are things still quiet on the Western front?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Excuse me sir, this is a Wendy’s

Sir, this is an excuse to hide from the truth: That Smash fans want to learn nothing from the fact that Nintendo thought:

• A franchise owned by a company with much, much bigger and more active IPs
• A first-party that took longer to join the battle than Corrin and Byleth did
• A first-party that took longer to join the battle than Corrin and Byleth did...again

Were all just as worthy of DLC as Ryu, Cloud, and Steve.

 

[Technomage]

On a related note, are there any characters you would love to see that you don’t think anyone else but you want? I would personally love to see Zegram Ghart from Rogue Galaxy but it’s rare to find anyone else that even knows he exists.

Characters that pretty much only I (presumably) want:

Imperial from Etrian Odyssey
A character from Master of Orion or Stars in Shadow (such as Glitok the Devourer, the snake man in my new profile pic)
Morty Maxwell from Super Solvers

 

[Deleted member]

This is a ridiculous thing to say, because Daisy is still a Mario character (a popular and recurring one at that) and is more recognizable to the general public than 90% of the roster.

I’d wager plenty of ballot votes went toward characters like her who more casual gamers were likely scratching their heads over being omitted (which also sheds light on the very widespread outcry for Waluigi). We may have a wider perspective of who could be added and who could be exciting, but for many people someone like Daisy does the trick.

Similarly no average joe is gonna get upset that Daisy or Waluigi aren’t staples of the main series games, etc. We put a lot of odd standards on otherwise inoffensive and obvious characters.

You're michaelol aren't you?

 

[Ivander]

So apparently there was an interview with Gabe Newell, and he said that steam might be expanding to consoles. The recording wasn't very audible to me, and I can't find a full interview, so I can't really confirm anything, but it got me thinking. What would happen to future Smash speculation if one day Steam and its entire library of games was suddenly available on Switch?
And keep in mind this wouldn't just be Valve games like Half-Life and Dota 2, this would also include the myriad of games available on Steam but not on Switch.

This reminds me all too well of that one project of being able to play PC games on your console from a long time ago and everybody was making a big deal about playing Half-life 2 on the Wii U or Switch. What was it again? Project Rain-something? Rainway?

But still, should this actually come to pass and come to the Switch, this would be frickin' huge since the biggest strength the Switch has is portability and controls compared to phones and whatnot.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

On a related note, are there any characters you would love to see that you don’t think anyone else but you want?

I know quite a few people here want KOS-MOS

but I think I’m one of the few people who also wants T-elos in addition. “GOOD BOYS AND GIRLS” BE DAMNED! Just use her XC2 design and/or an original sanitized Smash design idc

 

[Eldrake]

Gordon Freeman would immediately shoot up in discussion, and would gain more support as a result of him seeming more possible. TF2 might get some more discussion as well, but it seems like Freeman is considered the frontrunner for Valve.

There'd certainly be some debates on whether or not Steam counts as a "true" appearance, since the developers might not have any interactions with Nintendo. Sorta like how we can't seem to decide on what the Touhou fangames mean for Reimu. On that note, debates on Reimu are gonna get even muddier, since a large portion of Touhou is on Steam already.

Also SKX31 will get free reign over popping the %$#@ off about Dota 2 and that is a powerful scenario indeed.

SKX31 when that exact hypothetical scenario actually happens

 

[Gnateb]

Anybody have guesses at the potential spirit event for tonight? Probably another tourney, but maybe.