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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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N3ON

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I'd be surprised if PSASBR was even a blip in the decision making process.

People think guest appearances in fighters come, for some reason, with some sort of exclusivity clause. Or at least the cache of a character guest featuring depletes immediately and across the genre after crossing over to the point other devs from other series won't even want to touch them afterwards.

I mean, there are only more and more examples to the contrary as fighters continue to embrace crossovers.
 

Paraster

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I'd be surprised if PSASBR was even a blip in the decision making process.

People think guest appearances in fighters come, for some reason, with some sort of exclusivity clause. Or at least the cache of a character guest featuring depletes immediately and across the genre after crossing over to the point other devs from other series won't even want to touch them afterwards.

I mean, there are only more and more examples to the contrary as fighters continue to embrace crossovers.
I remember seeing a few people say that Rayman wouldn't get into Smash because he was in Brawlhalla, and I was always incredibly confused by that thought process.
 

perfectchaos83

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Ladies and gentlemen, your least popular Three Houses lord:


All different polls from all different countries across all different times.
The Choose your Legends example is disingenuous since that's Male side. Edelgard got 74k

Source

Also, the other polls are all small as ****. Small sample sizes never really paint a full picture.
 
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BlondeLombax

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I remember seeing a few people say that Rayman wouldn't get into Smash because he was in Brawlhalla, and I was always incredibly confused by that thought process.
Yeah, the whole “X can’t get into Smash because they’re already in a big crossover fighter” holds no water whatsoever. It’s literally just another form of petty gatekeeping.
 

Shroob

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I remember seeing a few people say that Rayman wouldn't get into Smash because he was in Brawlhalla, and I was always incredibly confused by that thought process.
Remember that when Terry was all the talk and "Terry won't be chosen, he's already going to be in Fighting Layer EX. It wouldn't make sense for them to double dip."
 

N3ON

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I remember seeing a few people say that Rayman wouldn't get into Smash because he was in Brawlhalla, and I was always incredibly confused by that thought process.
Yeah that reasoning never made much sense. The main argument I remember is that either Ubisoft wouldn't want to draw attention away from Brawlhalla or dilute Rayman's impact by having him be in another fighter, or that Nintendo wouldn't want to use a character already in a similar game.

And to that, one, have you seen how much Ubisoft has tried to get Rayman in Smash? They wouldn't care. And two, much like PSASBR, I doubt Brawlhalla is even a blip on Nintendo's radar.

Yeah, the whole “X can’t get into Smash because they’re already in a big crossover fighter” holds no water whatsoever. It’s literally just another form of petty gatekeeping.
Plus there's just growing evidence to the contrary. Aside from that, the very first third-party we ever got was in a party/platformer/fighter crossover prior to being in Smash. It's just creating reasons against a character.
 

SpectreJordan

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Yeah that reasoning never made much sense. The main argument I remember is that either Ubisoft wouldn't want to draw attention away from Brawlhalla or dilute Rayman's impact by having him be in another fighter, or that Nintendo wouldn't want to use a character already in a similar game.

And to that, one, have you seen how much Ubisoft has tried to get Rayman in Smash? They wouldn't care. And two, much like PSASBR, I doubt Brawlhalla is even a blip on Nintendo's radar.


Plus there's just growing evidence to the contrary. Aside from that, the very first third-party we ever got was in a party/platformer/fighter crossover prior to being in Smash. It's just creating reasons against a character.
I imagine Nintendo/Sakurai had their eyes on PSABR for a little bit. But then they saw the roster & the gameplay, then they started sleeping soundly again.

PSABR could’ve been Smash level big if Sony actually cared about it.
 

perfectchaos83

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Plenty of those were male side only. Point wasn't to say he was the most popular, it was to say he wasn't the least popular.
My bad. You didn't quote anyone in particular so I thought it was towards the general conversation rather than a specific argument.
 

Captain Shwampy

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Helps that in Bayonetta's case, Nintendo themselves are the ones not only publishing the IP, but also funding it, iirc.

So they may not own it, but they sure are the ones keeping it alive since Bayo 2 and 3 would've never happened without Nintendo.
I've actually recently discovered that nintendo doesn't completely own all of Bayo 2 assets.

Sega actually owns the music rights to Bayo 2.
Their music label company Sega WaveMaster published it.

Funny enough I've also found that some of the licensed games they did like Magical Rayearth Knight on Saturn music rights were also completely owned by SEGA. (Notice CLAMP isnt labeled as copyright owner of the song despite owning the MRK IP).
1620704513459.png


Meanwhile the Samba de Janeiro song from Samba De Amigo has mutiple copyright notices
1620704807705.png
 
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N3ON

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I imagine Nintendo/Sakurai had their eyes on PSABR for a little bit. But then they saw the roster & the gameplay, then they started sleeping soundly again.
You have to wonder how often Nintendo is actually threatened by the first-party software of the other two, since that's their greatest strength, and they rarely seem to bend to industry trends. They probably were aware it was happening, but it sort of went down in between Smash games, and was already floating in the water well before Smash 4 came out.

I'd love to know Sakurai's thoughts on the game, since it's inevitable he's played it.

PSABR could’ve been Smash level big if Sony actually cared about it.
Yeah Sony really left Superbot to flounder. They didn't even give it a fair shake and use their sway with third-parties to help compile a compelling roster. I don't think they should've rushed to make it something that could compete with Smash. I think they should started modestly with a smaller, tighter roster (with fewer but better choices for third-parties), better thought out mechanics, and worked their way up to a competitor over a couple of titles.
 

Cutie Gwen

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That's the thing though. If Sakurai is willing to go all out for other third party characters, then it could be reasoned he would do the same for Tekken. I believe Nintendo/Sakurai simply don't want or care for characters that appeared in PSABR.
He would do the same for Tekken yes, which is why Sakurai insists he needs to use Tekken's limb system which is the issue he has as it's not quite workable for him

This makes no sense, the only bit of proof we have Sakurai would care about something was when he said why he didn't add a hazard toggle, which he then did the next game anyway, PSABR flopped pretty badly and had infamously troubled development with no future in sight after 9 years so there should be no reason to deliberately avoid it
 

cothero

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Meanwhile the Samba de Janeiro song from Samba De Amigo has mutiple copyright notices
View attachment 314695
Fun fact: as a brazilian myself, i can affirm that NO ONE listen to Samba or Bossa Nova music here in Brazil. Those genres used to be very popular back in the 50's and are quite dead on radio and TV since then - with the exception of Samba, which revives in each year's carnival to be played is each block thematics.
 
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PSIGuy

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Turns out the Dreamland stage had some competition.

There was a problem fetching the tweet
I thought we knew about this for ages? Still, I would've preferred a general Gameboy stage. There's plenty of GB entries of games that could've cameod - Mario Land, a proper Wario Land stage, Metroid 2, Kid Icarus Of Myths And Monsters, flesh out assist trophy/music only franchises like For The Frog The Bell Tolls and X, etc.

oops have dreamland again LOL
 

TheBeastHimself

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a proper Wario Land stage
You know its always been strange to me that Wario's identity in Smash revolves around WarioWare, especially since his most iconic is the purple overalls. Don't have a problem with it, but it's strange.

Wario has history beyond just WarioWare but it's completely overshadowed in Smash. The most Wario gets for representation besides WarioWare that I can recall is his victory theme and a handful of spirits.
 
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Shroob

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You know its always been strange to me that Wario's identity in Smash revolves around WarioWare, especially since his most iconic is the purple overalls. Don't have a problem with it, but it's strange.

Wario has history beyond just WarioWare but it's completely overshadowed in Smash. The most Wario gets for representation besides WarioWare that I can recall is his victory theme and a handful of spirits.
He has his shoulder bash but yeah p.much.
 

Cosmic77

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I mean, the Dream Land stage is cool and all, but the only reason we got it is because...Sakurai needed a new Kirby stage.

So let's see... We need a new Kirby stage, preferably one from a handheld so it matches the 3DS theme. Should we try something with that new Kirby game, Triple Deluxe? Nah, let's scrap the stage featuring the unappreciated and forgotten Mario game and make a sixth stage based off of a Kirby game that came out in the 90s. Who could possibly care about modern Kirby anyways?

I'm sure Sakurai had his reasons, but seriously, this is a problem that needs to be rectified. It's pretty pathetic how RtDL, TD, PR, and SA have all come and gone and we're still left waiting for a modern stage.
 

ForsakenM

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Nintendo chose the DLC though so I feel like that would be irrelevant to him being picked (unless I'm missing something).
Nintendo also loves doing cute things and heavily appreciates Sakurai after holding him hostage for two games in the series.

Also many of the characters we've gotten thus far Sakurai has a personal attachment to. In fact, there are very few that don't fall under this.

Edit: Correction, it's about even.
Yeah, Smash's DLC has gone on plenty long; I think it'd be okay to end it after FP2, barring a few more spirit events and balance patches.
Absolutely not, and the hype for more DLC isn't dead just because there are gaps between reveals. This is yet again proof of Smash's weird isolation and echo chamber in terms of only experiencing things from their one game franchise and not getting similar experiences from others.

Tekken 7 first released on March 18th, 2015. The first Season Pass was available on June 1st, 2017. That means the Tekken 7 was relatively a vanilla game experience for over two years before it got more content, and that content made them a crap-ton of money for way less investment than a new game, so they have kept doing it. Their most recent DLC was a new character and stage just this March, on the 23rd.

I REPEAT: Tekken 7 had almost no additional content for over TWO YEARS, yet they still have made so much money once they started that they haven't stopped even into 2021.

Put that into perspective for Smash for a moment. Sure, Tekken is popular (really popular I might add), but a two year gap of major content updates? Also, eventually Tekken will run out of beloved characters to include and will have to move on. And yet, you guys think Smash will suffer from a lack of hype just because a couple months went by and the most recent addition wasn't earth-shatteringly hype? A game with an ever-growing list of character requests that will never have the same issues as any other iconic series within it's genre?

You can of course look into Street Fighter V, Dragon Ball FighterZ, basically any Blazblue title, Samurai Showdown and Soul Calibur 6 for more proof of the success of DLC and how normal it is to have multiple months of time in-between new DLCs and information on them. In fact, Capcom is a great example: They usually only made announcements at major events like Capcom Pro Tour, E3 and EVO with sometimes some others sprinkled in. Recently, they have taken a better approach where they basically have their own Sakurai Presents from time to time for both Monster Hunter and SFV in which they reveal more than one thing and have extended breakdowns of the coming content.

Basically, almost EVERY company that does DLC now only gives you information in portions throughout it's development, but teases a Season Pass or a Roadmap or some **** so that you know that more is coming and roughly how much more, just not exactly WHAT that more is. Smash isn't doing anything new in this regard, it's just still new to people who's only major experience with DLC is with Ultimate, which is on those of you who that applies to for having a lack of experience. The reason why you needn't worry about a gap in time between more content is because it's literally designed around said gap.

Just look at what we do here: we are here regularly talking about who or what the next character could be, and that speculation is built out of a desire for more content and our hype for the next reveal. The second anything that COULD contain the next DLC character is announced, social media ****ing explodes with comments and content, all flooded with hype and speculation on who it is and with little care about anything else that could be announced. The day of everyone gets all ready with their reactions and get super stoked and just can't wait to see who it is. When it's a crazy hype pick, the internet breaks with how excited people are; if they aren't as hype, it's still generally flooded with intrigue over what gameplay will be like and what specifics we don't know yet. The anticipation for the Sakurai Presents builds and builds until finally we get that beloved man we love breaking down the most recent character and telling us what they come with and when we can get them. Then the desire to play them builds up until they release, people buy and play the ever-loving **** out of them and everyone has a great time. Content creators overwhelm us with stuff to watch, from funny compilations to pro play to glitches and new tech and more and more that even when we aren't playing we are still consuming media about that new character well after their new luster starts to fade. Then finally, the smoke has cleared and everyone realizes we still have more DLC and the cycle begins anew with the speculation and the waiting game giving the needed reprieve from the insane amount of hype drummed up for each new character.

DLC is an amazing marketing tool: the concept of taking a game that already exists and has a dedicated fanbase and adding new content and making some changes to the gameplay for a smaller price than a brand-new game. It's like putting on a fresh coat of paint on your walls in a room: it's still the same room and the same house, but it looks nicer and makes you want to spend more time in that room for a while. It's perfectly engineered to make money by bringing back people who already want a reason to keep playing the game. For fighting games, now you have brand new matchups to learn and possible a new character to main; FPS get new guns to try out and maps to memorize, and so on and so forth throughout each genre. Thus, there is absolutely no reason to worry about reception in the event of more DLC after Pass 2, because most of you guys have somehow convinced yourself it won't happen, so when it does the internet will explode and we'll be right back on board the hype train.

I also feel like this weird 'we don't need more DLC' take stems from either selfishness or from an odd inappropriate application of sympathy. Taking on the entitlement first, sometimes I feel like this community thinks it should have new content rotating out the door every ****ing month, and yet still moan and groan when it wasn't exactly what they wanted as an individual. People need to realize that content takes time to make no matter how many people are working on it, and the better the quality and larger the quantity, the more time it's gonna take to get it done. How many people have forgotten that, much like Tekken 7 and SFV, Ultimate JUST had new DLC in March with Pyra/Mythra? It's been just over two months, I think you can wait a bit longer until E3 y'all. Complaining about Pyra/Mythra not being hype? Dude, we just had one of the most iconic villains in gaming history and the funny block man himself before this, I think you can let this one slide.

As for the weird sympathy thing, I think a lot of people think Sakurai is slaving away and they want him to take a break, but he's been on record multiple times stating he is really enjoying himself and I think it's clear he realizes this is his biggest (and likely last) opportunity to make Smash as big as it ever can be. Do you know what kind of motivation that is? A series you crafted of the biggest and most-loved faces in gaming beating the **** outta each other is at an all-time high and you have the support to get in almost any character you can get your hands on AND it's much less taxing to do so since it's all DLC? AND you, the company who owns the game, and all the third party companies involved are making absurd amounts of moolah? Sakurai is living the dream right now, why in the hell would he want to stop? Hell, during the pandemic, he got to work from home and thus theoretically spend more time with his wife. Damn man, what is there to feel sorry about other than the community being insatiable troglodytes and that for a moment the pro community measured a bit too high on the pedometer?

This wild ride ain't over yet bois. Yee-haw!
 
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TheBeastHimself

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I mean, the Dream Land stage is cool and all, but the only reason we got it is because...Sakurai needed a new Kirby stage.

So let's see... We need a new Kirby stage, preferably one from a handheld so it matches the 3DS theme. Should we try something with that new Kirby game, Triple Deluxe? Nah, let's scrap the stage featuring the unappreciated and forgotten Mario game and make a sixth stage based off of a Kirby game that came out in the 90s. Who could possibly care about modern Kirby anyways?

I'm sure Sakurai had his reasons, but seriously, this is a problem that needs to be rectified. It's pretty pathetic how RtDL, TD, PR, and SA have all come and gone and we're still left waiting for a modern stage.
At this point who knows why modern Kirby doesn't have a stage, the only information we have is that Sakurai chooses not to make one.
 

Shroob

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Nintendo also loves doing cute things and heavily appreciates Sakurai after holding him hostage for two games in the series.

Also many of the characters we've gotten thus far Sakurai has a personal attachment to. In fact, there are very few that don't fall under this.

Edit: Correction, it's about even.


Absolutely not, and the hype for more DLC isn't dead just because there are gaps between reveals. This is yet again proof of Smash's weird isolation and echo chamber in terms of only experiencing things from their one game franchise and not getting similar experiences from others.

Tekken 7 first released on March 18th, 2015. The first Season Pass was available on June 1st, 2017. That means the Tekken 7 was relatively a vanilla game experience for over two years before it got more content, and that content made them a crap-ton of money for way less investment than a new game, so they have kept doing it. Their most recent DLC was a new character and stage just this March, on the 23rd.

I REPEAT: Tekken 7 had almost no additional content for over TWO YEARS, yet they still have made so much money once they started that they haven't stopped even into 2021.

Put that into perspective for Smash for a moment. Sure, Tekken is popular (really popular I might add), but a two year gap of major content updates? Also, eventually Tekken will run out of beloved characters to include and will have to move on. And yet, you guys think Smash will suffer from a lack of hype just because a couple months went by and the most recent addition wasn't earth-shatteringly hype? A game with an ever-growing list of character requests that will never have the same issues as any other iconic series within it's genre?

You can of course look into Street Fighter V, Dragon Ball FighterZ, basically any Blazblue title, Samurai Showdown and Soul Calibur 6 for more proof of the success of DLC and how normal it is to have multiple months of time in-between new DLCs and information on them. In fact, Capcom is a great example: They usually only made announcements at major events like Capcom Pro Tour, E3 and EVO with sometimes some others sprinkled in. Recently, they have taken a better approach where they basically have their own Sakurai Presents from time to time for both Monster Hunter and SFV in which they reveal more than one thing and have extended breakdowns of the coming content.

Basically, almost EVERY company that does DLC now only gives you information in portions throughout it's development, but teases a Season Pass or a Roadmap or some **** so that you know that more is coming and roughly how much more, just not exactly WHAT that more is. Smash isn't doing anything new in this regard, it's just still new to people who's only major experience with DLC is with Ultimate, which is on those of you who that applies to for having a lack of experience. The reason why you needn't worry about a gap in time between more content is because it's literally designed around said gap.

Just look at what we do here: we are here regularly talking about who or what the next character could be, and that speculation is built out of a desire for more content and our hype for the next reveal. The second anything that COULD contain the next DLC character is announced, social media *ing explodes with comments and content, all flooded with hype and speculation on who it is and with little care about anything else that could be announced. The day of everyone gets all ready with their reactions and get super stoked and just can't wait to see who it is. When it's a crazy hype pick, the internet breaks with how excited people are; if they aren't as hype, it's still generally flooded with intrigue over what gameplay will be like and what specifics we don't know yet. The anticipation for the Sakurai Presents builds and builds until finally we get that beloved man we love breaking down the most recent character and telling us what they come with and when we can get them. Then the desire to play them builds up until they release, people buy and play the ever-loving * out of them and everyone has a great time. Content creators overwhelm us with stuff to watch, from funny compilations to pro play to glitches and new tech and more and more that even when we aren't playing we are still consuming media about that new character well after their new luster starts to fade. Then finally, the smoke has cleared and everyone realizes we still have more DLC and the cycle begins anew with the speculation and the waiting game giving the needed reprieve from the insane amount of hype drummed up for each new character.

DLC is an amazing marketing tool: the concept of taking a game that already exists and has a dedicated fanbase and adding new content and making some changes to the gameplay for a smaller price than a brand-new game. It's like putting on a fresh coat of paint on your walls in a room: it's still the same room and the same house, but it looks nicer and makes you want to spend more time in that room for a while. It's perfectly engineered to make money by bringing back people who already want a reason to keep playing the game. For fighting games, now you have brand new matchups to learn and possible a new character to main; FPS get new guns to try out and maps to memorize, and so on and so forth throughout each genre. Thus, there is absolutely no reason to worry about reception in the event of more DLC after Pass 2, because most of you guys have somehow convinced yourself it won't happen, so when it does the internet will explode and we'll be right back on board the hype train.

I also feel like this weird 'we don't need more DLC' take stems from either selfishness or from an odd inappropriate application of sympathy. Taking on the entitlement first, sometimes I feel like this community thinks it should have new content rotating out the door every ****ing month, and yet still moan and groan when it wasn't exactly what they wanted as an individual. People need to realize that content takes time to make no matter how many people are working on it, and the better the quality and larger the quantity, the more time it's gonna take to get it done. How many people have forgotten that, much like Tekken 7 and SFV, Ultimate JUST had new DLC in March with Pyra/Mythra? It's been just over two months, I think you can wait a but longer until E3 y'all. Complaining about Pyra/Mythra not being hype? Dude, we just had one of the most iconic villains in gaming history and the funny block man himself before this, I think you can let this one slide.

As for the weird sympathy thing, I think a lot of people think Sakurai is slaving away and they want him to take a break, but he's been on record multiple times stating he is really enjoying himself and I think it's clear he realizes this is his biggest (and likely last) opportunity to make Smash as big as it ever can be. Do you know what kind of motivation that is? A series you crafted of the biggest and most-loved faces in gaming beating the **** outta each other is at an all-time high and you have the support to get in almost any character you can get your hands on AND it's much less taxing to do so since it's all DLC? AND you, the company who owns the game, and all the third party companies involved are making absurd amounts of moolah? Sakurai is living the dream right now, why in the hell would he want to stop? Hell, during the pandemic, he got to work from home and thus theoretically spend more time with his wife. Damn man, what is there to feel sorry about other than the community being insatiable troglodytes and that for a moment the pro community measure a bit too high on the pedometer?

This wild ride ain't over yet bois. Yee-haw!
Biggest difference here that you're not really addressing is that a vast majority of Smash's DLC is 3rd-party focused, while 1st parties usually tend to be lesser in amount compared to 3rd. Games like Tekken have had 3rd party characters yes, but they don't take up a majority of the DLC roster(iirc), and DBFZ are all strictly Dragon Ball, despite Toriyama having other characters that they could pull from, like Dr.Slump. 3rd party characters cost licensing fees, on top of already having to pay a staff to make said characters, and Nintendo is flipping the bill for 'em sure, but Smash is like every other game in existence. Over time, player retention will drop off, which translates into less DLC sales. The more you stretch out a game's life, the less and less people will buy DLC, look at any other game as proof of that, Smash is no exception. I'd bet money that less people bought the 2nd pass than they did the first, if only because the first pass launched alongside the base game, while the 2nd pass was an entire year afterwards.

Sure, Nintendo could focus DLC to be more 1st party-leaning, but we're also scraping the bottom of the barrel for characters that Nintendo would have to offer. Waluigi, Ring Fit Trainer, Toad, Bandana Dee and Dixie are 5 names that come to mind, new Pokemon as well, but after that, you have characters like Isaac, who appeal to hardcore speculators and Smash fans, but not a more general audience(And Nintendo has seemingly no desire to make Camelot revive the franchise so haha). Ultimate has covered the Nintendo part of Nintendo very well, and while there are some names missing, there comes a point where you're starting to scrape up Z-listers, like Saavy Stylist, or Rusty's Real Deal baseball dude.


At what point does Nintendo look at Smash, now a 3 year old game at this point, and say "We're done pumping money into licensing, keep a crew on for balance adjustments and bugs and start planning the next installment for the next console?" Because I can almost guarantee that Ultimate will not receive new content throughout the rest of the Switch's lifecycle. There will inevitably come a day where they pull the plug on DLC.


I very much feel like this could be it, and if it's not, then hey, that's also cool, but there comes a point where one has to make peace with a very real possibility, something I'd argue that a lot of people have due to Sakurai's insistence that this is it. If it's not, then that's also fine, if there's more after this, we all win, but I seriously don't understand your constant denial and trying to paint people that don't agree with your viewpoint as people who are down in the dumps or haters, tbh. All parties end eventually, be it this year or sometime in the future, but they don't last forever. Trying to effectively paint the people you're discussing with in a negative light and throwing out their own discussion while calling them things like "hive mind", doesn't make people want to discuss or even listen to you, it makes people ignore you.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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You know its always been strange to me that Wario's identity in Smash revolves around WarioWare, especially since his most iconic is the purple overalls. Don't have a problem with it, but it's strange.

Wario has history beyond just WarioWare but it's completely overshadowed in Smash. The most Wario gets for representation besides WarioWare that I can recall is his victory theme and a handful of spirits.
I think Wario's origins might have a factor in this, Wario was made because the devs didn't want to make more Mario Land but then Wario ended up being super popular, I believe they just got sick of making platformers all together after a while and ended up making Warioware, something they really stuck with.
 

PSIGuy

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I think Wario's origins might have a factor in this, Wario was made because the devs didn't want to make more Mario Land but then Wario ended up being super popular, I believe they just got sick of making platformers all together after a while and ended up making Warioware, something they really stuck with.
Wario was attached to the microgames concept because they couldn't come up with any other character who would fit. Nintendo R&D1, the original developers of Wario/Metroid/Kid Icarus etc no longer exist as they've been merged with Software Planning and Development. Saying they got tired of platformers is a bit ridiculous when the GBA had both Land and Ware. It's more like the series has no real custodian to make games for it.

Not like "the franchise is dead" has ever stopped Smash content before. Mother's been retired since the GBA era and it gets actual representation every game but god forbid Wario Land gets acknowledged with more than a song and a forward smash.
 

Cutie Gwen

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but I seriously don't understand your constant denial and trying to paint people that don't agree with your viewpoint as people who are down in the dumps or haters
We call it "the 5 stages of grief", denial, anger and bargaining in particular

Also I think Ultimate has a unique issue involving DLC. Ultimate never gets a price drop and both Fighter Passes are just 5 bucks off of buying a copy of the game in stores as the game's 10 bucks more digitally
Wario was attached to the microgames concept because they couldn't come up with any other character who would fit. Nintendo R&D1, the original developers of Wario/Metroid/Kid Icarus etc no longer exist as they've been merged with Software Planning and Development. Saying they got tired of platformers is a bit ridiculous when the GBA had both Land and Ware. It's more like the series has no real custodian to make games for it.

Not like "the franchise is dead" has ever stopped Smash content before. Mother's been retired since the GBA era and it gets actual representation every game but god forbid Wario Land gets acknowledged with more than a song and a forward smash.
That bit was just my personal speculation as the reason for Wario's existence was similar and how in that era, developers started to slowly shift away from platformers, thanks for giving the actual reason
 

Guynamednelson

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As for the weird sympathy thing, I think a lot of people think Sakurai is slaving away and they want him to take a break, but he's been on record multiple times stating he is really enjoying himself and I think it's clear he realizes this is his biggest (and likely last) opportunity to make Smash as big as it ever can be. Do you know what kind of motivation that is? A series you crafted of the biggest and most-loved faces in gaming beating the **** outta each other is at an all-time high and you have the support to get in almost any character you can get your hands on AND it's much less taxing to do so since it's all DLC? AND you, the company who owns the game, and all the third party companies involved are making absurd amounts of moolah? Sakurai is living the dream right now, why in the hell would he want to stop? Hell, during the pandemic, he got to work from home and thus theoretically spend more time with his wife. Damn man, what is there to feel sorry about other than the community being insatiable troglodytes and that for a moment the pro community measured a bit too high on the pedometer?
The community has an issue with not wanting to acknowledge Japanese work culture, and wanting to think Sakurai is the exception, not the rule.
 

Guynamednelson

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Pretty sure Shroob meant after those commonly discussed names, not that those characters are the bottom of the barrel, but rather, where do you go after the likes of Bandana Dee, Waluigi and Dixie?
This is the kind of mentality that allowed ARMS to sneak past us.
 

Shroob

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Pretty sure Shroob meant after those commonly discussed names, not that those characters are the bottom of the barrel, but rather, where do you go after the likes of Bandana Dee, Waluigi and Dixie?
Yeah, Waluigi is one of the last big Nintendo names, I said that after names like those, is when you're scraping the bottom of the barrel.


I don't think anyone would argue that such riveting characters as....Checks list... Lord Frederick from Tropical Freeze is anything but a Z-lister.
 

Shroob

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This is the kind of mentality that allowed ARMS to sneak past us.
Arms was like, one of the most "It's happening for sure" choices for base game by large, the only reason people stopped talking about it was because Spring Man missed the boat, and the Rex Costume made people think that characters who did miss the boat were given a token representation.


Honestly, were it not for people being convinced that Spirit events deconfirm, we'd probably be talking non stop about Astral Chain, Ring Fit, or Gen 8----oh wait we already talk non stop about that last one.
 

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hmm, say, what would you think the chances of Tails being apart of Fighters Pass vol 2 as of now?
1620715266027.png


honestly, for me, I'm unsure, he's my most wanted, but people take the Mii costume and his appearance in Green Hill Zone in consideration, but I want to know what you guys think, just curious really.
 

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the only reason people stopped talking about it was because Spring Man missed the boat, and the Rex Costume made people think that characters who did miss the boat were given a token representation.
It's not just that, but the "only 3H/Gen 8 could possibly get DLC reps, every other first party is ****ed" mindset. I could clearly see the rules being shifted so first-party gatekeeping could still be a thing.
 

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It's not just that, but the "only 3H/Gen 8 could possibly get DLC reps, every other first party is ****ed" mindset. I could clearly see the rules being shifted so first-party gatekeeping could still be a thing.
I mean, that mindset died in March 2020 for the most part.

But at the same time, the thought that we're running out of "big" Nintendo characters isn't inherently wrong either. Ultimate did a very good job at hitting the Nintendo part of Smash through both base game and DLC, and while there are definitely things missing, which is undeniable, you can really only keep milking the Nintendo part of the roster for soo long at this point, while 3rd parties still have a ton left to offer.


I'd love a new Punch out character like Bald Bull, but I'm well aware Punch Out getting a 2nd character is ridiculously low, and if it did, it'd be odd as hell to skip over characters like Waluigi or Dixie for it.
 
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Idon

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I do not appreciate my most wanted being called “bottom of the barrel”.
I wear my "bottom of the barrel" label with pride.
We've had characters like Icies, ROB, and mother-****ing Piranha Plant, so what's a few more bottom of the barrel characters, especially ones that people actually like and ask for?

Anyway, Astral Chain cop for Smash.

And also Lyn Fire Emblem.
 
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Shroob

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I wear my "bottom of the barrel" label with pride.
We've had characters like Icies, ROB, and mother-****ing Piranha Plant, so what's a few more bottom of the barrel characters, especially ones that people actually like and ask for?

Anyway, Astral Chain cop for Smash.

And also Lyn Fire Emblem.
I think there's an argument to be made that all of those characters barring plant were base game characters, and Plant was technically free for a lot of the playerbase.

As much as I'd like more quirky and obscure 1st parties as DLC characters, DLC is meant to sell first and foremost, and as of now, barring Plant, all 3 Nintendo characters have had a game on the Switch, which basically doubles up as free advertising. I'd sooner expect Astral Chain or Ring Fit over something like, Doshin, Bubbles, or Mach Rider.



So this means Ayumi Tachibana is happening. :4pacman:
 
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