Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Phoenixio]

As someone who barely comes here, I'm quite baffled at this animosity between different platforms, because I find all of them to be particularly aggressive. To be more specific, I tend to visit this very thread to see speculation and things I might have missed in the news. Instead, it's a lot of arrogant people using their post counts as indication they know better, pulling "facts" out of their bums, and then posting "games" in a thread that shouldn't have any. It's one thing to have opinions, but at some point, people should respect other people's perspectives as well, especially when it comes to perceived popularity of a character (no, thread size doesn't count AT ALL). I come here to learn about company mergers, buyouts, copyright renewals, new game releases, stuff posted by developers, Nintendo executives, or Sakurai himself in his columns (not random leakers). All of those are good fuel for speculation, yet you'll find that 90% of the posts on here are not about any of that.

For example, there was a nice tidbit of info a few pages ago about renewal of the Baten Kaitos copyrights. Did anybody actually speculate anything about this? Could we expect new spirits for the series? A character? What's the standing of this classic yet often forgotten Gamecube franchise? I'm quite fond of that universe myself, I would enjoy more content in any form, be it remakes of the games, or inclusion of more spirits in Smash. Yet I've found the secondgame to be tedious and never managed to finish it: it's just not as immersive as the first.

I've been on record saying this forum needs more moderation, and while it hasn't been as openly insulting lately, it sure could use a bit of help getting back on track. Or maybe the name is now defunct and it's really just a general discussion about anything.

 

[ahemtoday]

As someone who barely comes here, I'm quite baffled at this animosity between different platforms, because I find all of them to be particularly aggressive. To be more specific, I tend to visit this very thread to see speculation and things I might have missed in the news. Instead, it's a lot of arrogant people using their post counts as indication they know better, pulling "facts" out of their bums, and then posting "games" in a thread that shouldn't have any. It's one thing to have opinions, but at some point, people should respect other people's perspectives as well, especially when it comes to perceived popularity of a character (no, thread size doesn't count AT ALL). I come here to learn about company mergers, buyouts, copyright renewals, new game releases, stuff posted by developers, Nintendo executives, or Sakurai himself in his columns (not random leakers). All of those are good fuel for speculation, yet you'll find that 90% of the posts on here are not about any of that.

For example, there was a nice tidbit of info a few pages ago about renewal of the Baten Kaitos copyrights. Did anybody actually speculate anything about this? Could we expect new spirits for the series? A character? What's the standing of this classic yet often forgotten Gamecube franchise? I'm quite fond of that universe myself, I would enjoy more content in any form, be it remakes of the games, or inclusion of more spirits in Smash. Yet I've found the secondgame to be tedious and never managed to finish it: it's just not as immersive as the first.

I've been on record saying this forum needs more moderation, and while it hasn't been as openly insulting lately, it sure could use a bit of help getting back on track. Or maybe the name is now defunct and it's really just a general discussion about anything.

I haven't really experienced any of the arrogance and post-count flaunting you're talking about. From my perspective, the most aggressive thing in this thread in recent memory is someone coming into the thread, calling everyone arrogant, and judging everybody because the sorts of conversations that happen here aren't to their liking.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Super Rush teaser site open.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[SKX31]

Huh, I never thought about the cannibalism, though I should have realized that a horror game butcher would do that. On the other hand, we've seen plenty of fan rules and the like get broken time and time again; maybe Sakurai could surprise us with a cannibalistic butcher fighter in a future Smash game?

This is my excuse to talk about Dota 2's most popular character. Made famous by Youtube compilations and people bandwagoning hard on the coattails of Dota's most marketed (and most famous in Dota 2's early days) player, Dendi.

I'm not kidding either, this hero has been played in 831 million Dota 2 games (ahead of the #2 by 330 million games, dating back to at least 2013 IIRC) and despite him being mostly irrelevant in competitive play is constantly the most played hero each patch.

The hero? Pudge.

And for those of you asking, yup, his design combines the WarCraft 3 Abomination unit with the Butcher from Diablo.​

I know, his chances are practically zilch. Besides Dota's non-existent relationship with Nintendo and all that entails as well as Dota's obscurity in Japan, there are other characters in the game about as famous / marketed, and have a much stronger moveset potential. Also, he's incredibly gory in concept (as his moves blatantly hint at) so it might be difficult to translate him into the family friendly game that Smash is.

However, he could've made for a very interesting AT. His moveset illustrates this:

• Meat Hook: The Dota skillshot and 90 % of the reason the Pudge players play him. This hook reaches pretty damn far and while it's a commital one, anything it snatches will be brought back to Pudge. Pudge players will also do all sorts of tricks with this + items they manage to get. Think Chef Kawasaki's ladel, only rated T (M perhaps?) partly because of the Diablo inspirations, partly because Pudge does his best Scorpion impression with a couple of his voicelines and partly because of the swearwords that will be used in all chat if the Pudge player misses a lot of Hooks: "noob mid pudge report сука блять*".
• Rot: Yeah, this guy's concept of hygiene is to let out a toxic cloud around him. Damages stuff around him, including himself. However, since he's a tanky guy and this is most often used whenever one lands a successful Hook, chances are pretty good that a Hooked target will take loads of damage from Rot.
• Flesh Heap: Pudge's snowball mechanic. Each kill that happens around him buffs his strength (meaning +HP and all that jazz) as well as Magic Resistance. Since Rot is Magic damage, Flesh Heap helps him tank that. It's also another reason Pudge players play him, since the snowball can be a brutal if he manages to get a lot of kills - and thus a ton of max HP.
• Dismember: "Ahhh…fresh meat!" Besides this being a quote from Diablo, chances are pretty good that anyone who even knows a Dota 2 playing person has heard this line at least in passing. This is because this single target disable / damage Ultimate has a global sound effect - meaning that everyone in a Dota 2 game will hear Pudge yell this whenever he connects. Usually used after Hooking someone together with Rot to ensure that the Hooked target is killed and the snowball gets rollin'. Edit: He recently gained an Aghanim's Shard (powerful midgame item, introduced recently) upgrade that lets him swallow an allied hero with Dismember and heal the ally until Pudge ejects the ally. Huh.

*(Yes, Russian swearwords. Some really dirty ones at that - "ur mom" is the best comparision.)

Super Rush teaser site open.

Huh, that's a bit earlier than I personally expected. Will certainly be keeping an eye on this, because there's a small but still existing chance that the Waluigi render might be for this game. That is predicated on Super Rush having the characters' original looks as alternate costumes, of course, so I'm not going to say it's likely (to say the least).

 

[DarthEnderX]

This thread is starting to slow down right now, so I'm gonna propose a new question: Of the 3rd-parties that already have a character in the roster, assuming any of them would get another character, what would each of their candidates be?

Konami: Bill Rizer/Lance Bean [Contra]
SEGA: Kazuma Kiryu [Yakuza]
Capcom: Arthur [Ghosts 'n Goblins] (pretty sure they're done for Ultimate though)
Namco-Bandai: Nightmare [SoulCalibur]
Square Enix: Crono [Chrono Trigger] (pretty sure they're done for Ultimate though)
Microsoft: Want Battletoads [Battletoads], it will probably be Master Chief [Halo]
SNK: Want SV-001 Metal Slug [Metal Slug], it will probably be Nakoruru [Samurai Shodown]

Crash in Smash would just be a solid confirmation that Crash is here to stay

Oh yeah, remember when Banjo got into Smash and then Microsoft announced a new Banjo game!

...wait...

Alright, let's talk about cooking-related fighters.

Already playable.

 

[N3ON]

I come here to learn about company mergers, buyouts, copyright renewals, new game releases, stuff posted by developers, Nintendo executives, or Sakurai himself in his columns (not random leakers). All of those are good fuel for speculation, yet you'll find that 90% of the posts on here are not about any of that.

Sounds like you come here for general industry talk since most of that doesn't necessarily pertain Smash. Or the relevance it does have to Smash wouldn't affect this Smash, because barring a FP3, we're past the point where recent or future events would likely impact the DLC. And thus the more hypothetical the conversation becomes the less it will likely be maintained. Have you seen what happens when we broach future Smash games?

Even the stuff that is Smash related isn't necessarily fodder for speculation. Like the Sakurai column can be interesting, but it rarely discloses much that can be used to change how we see things.

I mean, what mergers and buyouts do you want to talk about? Bethesda and Microsoft? I mean it makes characters like Doom Slayer less likely going forward, but it happened after FP2 was decided. Nintendo fully acquiring Astral Chain? That again happened pretty recently, and even before it was still first-party. Nintendo bought Next Level Games, but they don't have any original properties.

And I don't know where you've been looking, but we do talk about new game releases and relevant statements by developers. That is often what gets cycled around. Didn't we just talk about the new Tales game? Yesterday Nintendo posted that Waluigi render, and we spoke about that. And that was just a render. People are talking about Ayumi Tachibana probably mostly because she's current and sort of new to conversation more than because people really believe in her.

Is it that we don't talk about every new series that gets a game? Some of those series just aren't seen as very likely to the point that getting a game probably isn't going to change much. We spent a lot of time talking about those Ryu Hayabusa statements. We only get so many dev comments. We're still talking about the implications of Toys for Bob being moved off Crash, and that happened after the character would've been selected.

On the other hand we also had people positive that we were going to get characters like Monster Hunter and Travis because of statements or recent games, and you see that happen enough and some people stop putting as much stock in that kind of stuff.

It seems like you're maligning the fact that the thread has descended to general conversation while wanting to focus on topics that lend itself to general conversation. I mean, company mergers, buyouts and copyright renewals? Those are at best, marginally related to Smash. I think that the few things are directly related to Smash do fuel us more than anything else, because we barely have anything else left to go on that isn't a huge reach. I mean the whole case for Master Chief right now is predicated on bread crumbs, and he's seen as one of the likelier options.

I would agree we mostly talk about the same names on repeat but... like... welcome to Smash speculation.

 

[Phoenixio]

I haven't really experienced any of the arrogance and post-count flaunting you're talking about. From my perspective, the most aggressive thing in this thread in recent memory is someone coming into the thread, calling everyone arrogant, and judging everybody because the sorts of conversations that happen here aren't to their liking.

And yet this is a prime example of what I mean... Was there a point to your message, except being aggressive towards my perspective? You, as an individual, haven't felt this so my opinion is invalid? That's it, no argument? No reasoning? At least I went ahead and discussed why I think the title/thread/subject intended doesn't fit what's in here. That's a legit non-aggressive opinion, on topic. Was yours?

Whether you want to or not, those "outside" people can be unnecessarily aggressive, but there's some truth to it. If you stand back and take a neutral look, It didn't even take 10 minutes for my message to be completely dismissed, which was actually the very first post after mine. You think newcomers are tempted to come on here? You think this type of behaviors attracts people? It just breeds the same type of behavior, and they are only further supported by the amount of likes that end up coming their way. Snarky, feel-good dismissal of others. So it's no surprise then that the people part of this click don't see what's going on, and then outsiders label them as aggressive, arrogant, and non-supportive.

As a community, I think this is something to reflect on. Maybe it's me getting too "old" for the internets. Maybe common sense didn't spread as fast as the internet did. But it's completely mental that forums like this can be so juvenile, when I've seen other online communities stay civilized for decades. I argue that it's a need for more moderation to quiet those who partake in the unnecessary snark, but maybe it is, in the end, a reflection of the Smash community as well.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Oh yeah, remember when Banjo got into Smash and then Microsoft announced a new Banjo game!

...wait...

“Here to stay” doesn’t mean new game. It’s simply that’s character who could be lost to the ether is still around in some form going forward. Banjo is in Smash and that’s a big win. Whether he gets a new game or not.

 

[Phoenixio]

Sounds like you come here for general industry talk since most of that doesn't necessarily pertain Smash. Or the relevance it does have to Smash wouldn't affect this Smash, because barring a FP3, we're past the point where recent or future events would likely impact the DLC. And thus the more hypothetical the conversation becomes the less it will likely be maintained. Have you seen what happens when we broach future Smash games?

On the other hand we also had people positive that we were going to get characters like Monster Hunter and Travis because of statements or recent games, and you see that happen enough and some people stop putting as much stock in that kind of stuff.

Thanks for the serious reply.

You actually do approach a point I might not have made clear, and that you certainly highlight more in this thread. At some point there is only so much that can be discussed. And where's the problem with that? To me it feels like this speculation thread has lost its purpose, and as you say, while there are repeats, at some point people can also leave the thread alone and discuss in other threads. I don't understand why it is used as a "general" thread at all. And that ties into the outside perception that specifically targeted the Newcomer section. It's like people feel obliged to keep posting despite the lack of news or things to talk about...

As for the industry talk, I'm still quite certain it matters. Well, to a lesser extent this far in the game, granted, but my comments are not just about now, they're also about a year ago, or even longer before that. Sure, some announcements have been disappointing, and some theories fell through. I cry for Travis daily still. But that was real speculation. That was us knowing for a fact that No More Heroes was getting remakes and sequels, its developer being weird and semi-leaking info, and we did end up getting a costume! But costume or not, that was much more useful and interesting than any talk by user X who wants Y character. That's not speculation at all. It's a valid opinion, that user is more than welcomed to show support for a character, but that's not speculation in any way.

So, 2 fighters left, but we know for a fact Sakurai can't be fully trusted in that regard, we know for a fact DLCs have been lucrative, we know about shill picks, alpha-release access by the Smash team, and that sometimes developers leak info or hint at projects on purpose to build up hype. Those are the things we should speculate about, still and until there is strong enough evidence that Smash is over The rest, in my opinion, should be kept for a games thread or a general thread.

 

[ahemtoday]

And yet this is a prime example of what I mean... Was there a point to your message, except being aggressive towards my perspective? You, as an individual, haven't felt this so my opinion is invalid? That's it, no argument? No reasoning? At least I went ahead and discussed why I think the title/thread/subject intended doesn't fit what's in here. That's a legit non-aggressive opinion, on topic. Was yours?

Whether you want to or not, those "outside" people can be unnecessarily aggressive, but there's some truth to it. If you stand back and take a neutral look, It didn't even take 10 minutes for my message to be completely dismissed, which was actually the very first post after mine. You think newcomers are tempted to come on here? You think this type of behaviors attracts people? It just breeds the same type of behavior, and they are only further supported by the amount of likes that end up coming their way. Snarky, feel-good dismissal of others. So it's no surprise then that the people part of this click don't see what's going on, and then outsiders label them as aggressive, arrogant, and non-supportive.

As a community, I think this is something to reflect on. Maybe it's me getting too "old" for the internets. Maybe common sense didn't spread as fast as the internet did. But it's completely mental that forums like this can be so juvenile, when I've seen other online communities stay civilized for decades. I argue that it's a need for more moderation to quiet those who partake in the unnecessary snark, but maybe it is, in the end, a reflection of the Smash community as well.

Alright, fine. If my previous post came across as aggressive, I apologize.

However, if you believe this type of behavior - the sort displayed in your original message as well as its followup - is not aggressive, I have to disagree. When your post is primarily a smug denouncement of this thread, the conversations held within it, and the people that frequent it; it does not exactly invite peaceable responses. When a newcomer to this thread gets a post like your original one dismissing the sorts of conversations they enjoy in favor of ones they don't, is that in any way encouraging their return? Absolutely not. It makes them feel like they're being yelled at. Regardless of what you're intending with this sort of talk, you come across as sanctimonious, angry, and controlling. Not as a reasonable person with the best interests of the thread in mind.

Personally, I've honestly never been very interested in discussions about a character's likelihood (and if you want to oust me from the thread over it, then say so). I don't think it's at all accurate to hold up those sorts of discussions as somehow superior to simply talking about characters we enjoy. It's not as though predicting a character and getting it right accomplishes anything that simply wanting them doesn't.

If you want me to elaborate on my initial point, then I will: if your goal is to put a stop to aggressive and dismissive comments that stop discussion, I think coming into a thread, calling them arrogant, and telling them that the kinds of discussion they've been having for thousands of pages are off-topic is a horrible way to do it, because you're trying to fight fire with fire. I fail to see how complaining about forum games and wanting the conversation to be exclusively about character likelihood and character-likelihood-affecting events is anything other than the very thing you are trying to prevent. You're not inviting goodwill. You're inviting hostility.

 

[PeridotGX]

The original tweet that this was a reply to makes me get the feeling they don't like us very much.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I'm kinda surprised that a lot of people in the replies don't know this site exists. it's literally the first thing you see when you google "smash speculation".

 

[Perkilator]

Random thought: if I were to make a video game, I would pretend I was Sakurai without any creative, technical, time, budget or licensing constraints and my version of the Smash roster would look like this

 

[SKX31]

I'm kinda surprised that a lot of people in the replies don't know this site exists. it's literally the first thing you see when you google "smash speculation".

Think a primary reason is that a lot of people don't venture outside of the bigger social media sites due to the fact that they are comfortable with the networks they have at the bigger sites.

In other words, Metcalfe's Law - "If my friends are on X site / playing X game, I'm more likely to be on that site / play that game".

Random thought: if I were to make a video game, I would pretend I was Sakurai without any creative, technical, time, budget or licensing constraints and my version of the Smash roster would look like this

Solgaleo's a really bold choice. Not entirely sure how he'd work though, since we're talking about a giant four footed lion whose signature move is shooting fire beams.

I'm curious though: please explain how he'd play?

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Super Rush teaser site open.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Le poggers.

 

[Perkilator]

Solgaleo's a really bold choice. Not entirely sure how he'd work though, since we're talking about a giant four footed lion whose signature move is shooting fire beams.

I'm curious though: please explain how he'd play?

Kinda like this

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

If there is one positive Smashboards (newcomer thread included) has, its that its gone on long enough to have experienced many of the very worst and toxic fan discussion put out and at the very least has enough instinct these days to stay away from them much of the time or at least spot them early. No message board or platform is without its flaws and when you have a game as popular and seemingly made for back and forth about characters about Smash, quite frankly bad arguments are somewhat inevitable at least at some point. The key thing is having enough of a userbase that is aware of that and has learned from the dubious examples in the past to better deal with it when it does happen.

Maybe I haven't been here long enough to have an accurate picture of discussion, but it feels like a place far more defined by users at least trying to understand why others are into their respective fighters and making a reasonable attempt to explain why their preferred choice has some merit. Yes there are snippy responses and general dismissals about fighters or franchises, yet those are very often called out, and I've seen extreme supporters of potential characters get chided by fellow supporters specifically for making the fandom of them look bad for their behavior.

I'm not saying there haven't been people unfair to Rayman at points, however as someone who has seen online areas where the talk about video game elements goes from respectful to heated remarkably quickly, Smashboards feels at the benign end of imperfect internet communities in the grand scheme.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I swear, you manage to tie random ass tangents to Timesplitters constantly in such a way that you never cease to impress, if the games were on Steam I'd have bought them ages ago solely because you make it out to be dumb **** in a good way

See Gwen here's the thing: he's never going to run out of ways to tie anything to TimeSplitters because it has like 150 playable characters covering every cliche and parodying every genre known to man. TimeSplitters is endless and the only way to escape it is to play it and join the cult of Cortez.

 

[Technomage]

See Gwen here's the thing: he's never going to run out of ways to tie anything to TimeSplitters because it has like 150 playable characters covering every cliche and parodying every genre known to man. TimeSplitters is endless and the only way to escape it is to play it and join the cult of Cortez.

Wow, 150? Must be a bigger franchise than I thought.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Wow, 150? Must be a bigger franchise than I thought.

Nah it's just 3 games but Future Perfect has a crazy roster for multiplayer.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Smashing them milestones.

Thanks To Switch, Nintendo Has Now Sold Over Half A Billion Handheld Consoles https://t.co/iaZoGSOSer #Repost #NintendoSwitch #SalesFigures pic.twitter.com/NKcW0XWGiW

— Nintendo Life (@nintendolife) May 7, 2021

 

[CannonStreak]

Smashing them milestones.

Thanks To Switch, Nintendo Has Now Sold Over Half A Billion Handheld Consoles https://t.co/iaZoGSOSer #Repost #NintendoSwitch #SalesFigures pic.twitter.com/NKcW0XWGiW

— Nintendo Life (@nintendolife) May 7, 2021

Here's to half a billion, and hopefully, there will be half a billion more sold.

 

[GothicSlenderman]

This thread is starting to slow down right now, so I'm gonna propose a new question: Of the 3rd-parties that already have a character in the roster, assuming any of them would get another character, what would each of their candidates be?

Konami - Frogger (One of the few series I grew up with that isn't in Smash yet minus an Atari Rep)
SEGA - Dr. Eggman
Capcom - Dante
Namco - Lloyd Irving (mainly because so many people have been wanting him since the Brawl days. I myself am actually unfamiliar with him)
Square-Enix - Sora (Yeah I know he's technically owned by Disney but Square still has a say in the matter)
SNK - A Metal Slug character
Microsoft - Master Chief ...or perhaps...maybe...

 

[Technomage]

Konami - Frogger (One of the few series I grew up with that isn't in Smash yet minus an Atari Rep)
SEGA - Dr. Eggman
Capcom - Dante
Namco - Lloyd Irving (mainly because so many people have been wanting him since the Brawl days. I myself am actually unfamiliar with him)
Square-Enix - Sora (Yeah I know he's technically owned by Disney but Square still has a say in the matter)
SNK - A Metal Slug character
Microsoft - Master Chief ...or perhaps...maybe...
View attachment 314376

LOL I know it's a joke, but you do make a point; maybe that guy could get in as a Spirit?

 

[RouffWestie]

Imagine what that game would've been like.

Smash didn't start as a fighting game -- instead, Sakurai envisioned a concept relating to Ohajiki, a traditional Japanese marble game.#PushFacts #SmashBros pic.twitter.com/ni33ekGBGL

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) May 5, 2021

Seems that idea sort of lived on with the Streetpass Smash mini-game.

 

[SKX31]

Kinda like this

Turning him into a combo machine with all the small knockback moves?
Him having a double jump where he rolls forward?
Giving him Roar, Zen Headbutt and Sunsteel Strike for the disrespect off stage edgeguards? (Yeah, that's not their primary purpose I'd imagine, but I'm a massive fan of this kind of move.)

10 / 10 would pick him up instantly.

That's actually kinda interesting, honestly - Solgaleo's large after all, and it's not often those characters have a lot of moves that have small knockback / damage. Which is honestly an area I'd like to see tackled, and I'm giving this moveset plus points for that. The Specials are also interesting because they have quite a lot of utility while filling an area he'd be kinda lacking in (KO moves) with commital KO moves, so I like that as well. Honestly I think it's a solid and interesting moveset overall.

That said I do have some questions:

1. When it comes to Gyro Ball, would it be tied to how fast the opponent is moving currently or tied to a character's innate speed? If it's tied to a character's innate running speed (as in the home games it seems) - well, slower characters like , and are tanking a lot more damage than , and are by this. Which would mean it'd be extremely difficult justifying using Gyro Ball vs. the latter characters. Characters like , and can choose to buff their speed too, which can make it more difficult to use it vs. them (likewise with , OWA also buffs his speed). is a special case since is middle of the pack in terms of speed, is on the slower end... but is tied 10th fastest on the ground. Characters also have different air speeds, making things more complicated. Kinda think the former - how fast a character moves currently as measured by "Standstill - Least damage, Walk - Medium damage, Run - Max damage" would be better since it'd be less dependent on the opponent's character.

2. His recovery might be really suspect to say the least. We're talking a double jump that doesn't mention a lot of height gain + a possible reliance on Zen Headbutt / Sunsteel Strike (which is practically Flare Blitz / Cross Chop) for recovery - which themselves may be prone to interceptions. This may be an intentional weakness, but still. I gotta ask for clarification re: the double jump - how high would it go?

3. How long would Roar last? Would it be able to be held for extended amounts of time, or have a limit to it like 's Blunderbuss (2.5 seconds)?

 

[Perkilator]

Turning him into a combo machine with all the small knockback moves?
Him having a double jump where he rolls forward?
Giving him Roar, Zen Headbutt and Sunsteel Strike for the disrespect off stage edgeguards? (Yeah, that's not their primary purpose I'd imagine, but I'm a massive fan of this kind of move.)

10 / 10 would pick him up instantly.

That's actually kinda interesting, honestly - Solgaleo's large after all, and it's not often those characters have a lot of moves that have small knockback / damage. Which is honestly an area I'd like to see tackled, and I'm giving this moveset plus points for that. The Specials are also interesting because they have quite a lot of utility while filling an area he'd be kinda lacking in (KO moves) with commital KO moves, so I like that as well. Honestly I think it's a solid and interesting moveset overall.

That said I do have some questions:

1. When it comes to Gyro Ball, would it be tied to how fast the opponent is moving currently or tied to a character's innate speed? If it's tied to a character's innate running speed (as in the home games it seems) - well, slower characters like , and are tanking a lot more damage than , and are by this. Which would mean it'd be extremely difficult justifying using Gyro Ball vs. the latter characters. Characters like , and can choose to buff their speed too, which can make it more difficult to use it vs. them (likewise with , OWA also buffs his speed). is a special case since is middle of the pack in terms of speed, is on the slower end... but is tied 10th fastest on the ground. Characters also have different air speeds, making things more complicated. Kinda think the former - how fast a character moves currently as measured by "Standstill - Least damage, Walk - Medium damage, Run - Max damage" would be better since it'd be less dependent on the opponent's character.

2. His recovery might be really suspect to say the least. We're talking a double jump that doesn't mention a lot of height gain + a possible reliance on Zen Headbutt / Sunsteel Strike (which is practically Flare Blitz / Cross Chop) for recovery - which themselves may be prone to interceptions. This may be an intentional weakness, but still. I gotta ask for clarification re: the double jump - how high would it go?

3. How long would Roar last? Would it be able to be held for extended amounts of time, or have a limit to it like 's Blunderbuss (2.5 seconds)?

1. Innate speed. So you'd want to save it for slower opponents.
2. The double jump would go fairly high.
3. Roar would last indefinitely, but its effect would weaken after about 3-4 seconds.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Solgaleo's a really bold choice. Not entirely sure how he'd work though, since we're talking about a giant four footed lion whose signature move is shooting fire beams.

Even as someone with such wonderful opinions on Incineroar, Solgaleo just feels like...replacing for the sake of replacing. May have something to do with it not being what I'd prefer either, I dunno.

 

[Shroob]

To any Falcom stans here


I guess I'd like to inform you that a gal who worked on the localization of the Trails games has become a Vtuber now, give her your support if you want.



Okay my shilling is over. SharkLord

 

[Louie G.]

This thread is starting to slow down right now, so I'm gonna propose a new question: Of the 3rd-parties that already have a character in the roster, assuming any of them would get another character, what would each of their candidates be?

Konami - Bill Rizer or... Pyramid Head? Seems unlikely Konami will get anything else for now, but those are probably their biggest characters absent with Bomberman out of the picture (and Goemon to a lesser extent).

SEGA - Arle or Tails. Pretty self explanatory - Puyo is Sega's biggest unrepresented series and has a strong legacy going 30 years strong, Tails is Sonic's right hand man and IMO the most logical step forward if we were to get a new Sonic character.

Capcom - Right now? Chun-Li is the only one I can really see happening. The last batch of costumes doesn't bode too well for Capcom in general but I feel like a Mii wave consisting of Street Fighter costumes and a couple other fighting game characters is enough to sustain itself.

Namco - Chosen Undead. I've been pushing Dark Souls for a while now, a monumental series in modern gaming that already ranks among Namco's most profitable and successful. It's even on Switch and Solaire has got an amiibo. Been getting more attention recently but for the longest time this was one of the biggest dark horse candidates.

Square-Enix - Uh... Lara Croft or 2B? I feel like most of Square's candidates overlap a bit with the previous two in general appeal and if they were motivated to go for another I think they would want someone completely different. Lara is an obvious icon and 2B is a modern icon who I'd say stands strong right alongside someone like Joker.

Microsoft - Master Chief, duh. What else is there to say?

SNK - Marco and Fio from Metal Slug. Next to King of Fighters, I'd say Metal Slug is SNK's biggest landmark franchise and it has so much to offer to Smash. It's already got some music in the game through Terry, but there's a lot more room for expansion there compared to other SNK fighters.

 

[Gnateb]

Namco - Chosen Undead. I've been pushing Dark Souls for a while now, a monumental series in modern gaming that already ranks among Namco's most profitable and successful. It's even on Switch and Solaire has got an amiibo. Been getting more attention recently but for the longest time this was one of the biggest dark horse candidates.

I'm also really loving the recent rise in support. Dark Souls as a series has gotten a lot bigger since Smash 4... mainly because of Dark Souls III. Right as Smash 4 was ending development, and work on Ultimate was beginning, Dark Souls III came out.

That game remains Bandai Namco's fastest selling of all time. It shipped 3 million units in it's first couple of months, and as of 2020, it had sold over 10 million copies alone. Basically, between Sm4sh and Ultimate, Dark Souls became Bamco's best selling RPG franchise, and third best selling series overall. It's actually the 6th best selling Japanese RPG series right now, and alongside Kingdom Hearts is the only of the top 6 not represented in Smash.

The timing of it's surge in size gives me a little more hope for a character in Smash.

 

[Technomage]

I'm also really loving the recent rise in support. Dark Souls as a series has gotten a lot bigger since Smash 4... mainly because if Dark Souls III. Right as Smash 4 was ending development, and work on Ultimate was beginning, Dark Souls III came out.

That game remains Bandai Namco's fastest selling of all time. It shipped 3 million units in it's first couple of months, and as of 2020, it had sold over 10 million copies alone. Basically, between Sm4sh and Ultimate, Dark Souls became Bamco's best selling RPG franchise, and third best selling series overall. It's actually the 6th best selling Japanese RPG series right now, and alongside Kingdom Hearts is the only of the top 6 not represented in Smash.

The timing of it's surge in size gives me a little more hope for a character in Smash.

It is criminal that Namco hasn't gotten a second playable rep yet.

 

[Gnateb]

It is criminal that Namco hasn't gotten a second playable rep yet.

I wholeheartedly agree. I'd be cool with any Bandai Namco character in FP2

 

[BernkastelWitch]

It makes me wonder why we haven't gotten a second Namco rep yet. Either due to Namco not sure who to pick, Sakurai priotizing other devs over them, or Namco intentionally not letting a second rep get in as to not seem biased here.

 

[Technomage]

It makes me wonder why we haven't gotten a second Namco rep yet. Either due to Namco not sure who to pick, Sakurai priotizing other devs over them, or Namco intentionally not letting a second rep get in as to not seem biased here.

I don't know why we haven't gotten more Namco characters yet, but I do know why why haven't gotten any Tekken characters yet: Sakurai stated that adding Heihachi while making him faithful to the Tekken series is too complicated for him to do, and I get the feeling that the same could apply to adding a Soulcaliber character. That's something to help lead us to a conclusion.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I don't know why we haven't gotten more Namco characters yet, but I do know why why haven't gotten any Tekken characters yet: Sakurai stated that adding Heihachi while making him faithful to the Tekken series is too complicated for him to do. That's something to helps lead us to a conclusion.

Tekkens is at least understandable.

Yet we have stuff like Tales, Xenosaga(Though I imagine Pyra/Mythra invalidated KOS-MOS), Soul Calibur(That may fall under Tekkens issues though), Dark Souls, etc etc for potential choices here at least. I imagine they can't be that complicated compared to a Tekken character.

 

[Technomage]

Tekkens is at least understandable.

Yet we have stuff like Tales, Xenosaga(Though I imagine Pyra/Mythra invalidated KOS-MOS), Soul Calibur(That may fall under Tekkens issues though), Dark Souls, etc etc for potential choices here at least. I imagine they can't be that complicated compared to a Tekken character.

Don't forget a Digimon character.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Don't forget a Digimon character.

I keep forgetting Digimon technically counts, doesn't it? It technically qualifies there and in a sense, would be unexplored territory for Smash.

If that happens then those old 90s playground arguments of Pokemon vs Digimon would go full circle.

 

[Mamboo07]

This thread is starting to slow down right now, so I'm gonna propose a new question: Of the 3rd-parties that already have a character in the roster, assuming any of them would get another character, what would each of their candidates be?

My theories:
Konami: Theoretical next fighter would likely be Bill Rizer, with Lance Bean as an alternate costume.
SEGA: Either Arle Nadja or a second Sonic character (most likely Dr. Eggman).
Capcom: Possible candidates are Chun-Li, Dante, Phoenix Wright, Morrigan Aensland
Namco-Bandai: Probably either Yuri Lowell, Velvet Crowe, Nightmare, Yoshimitsu, Agumon, Solaire, or the Chosen Undead.
Square Enix: Possible candidates include YoRHa 2B, Sora, Neku Sakuraba, and Lara Croft
Microsoft: The most likely would most definitely be Master Chief, and other candidates include Fulgore and the Battletoads.
SNK: Since Terry Bogard and the rest of his Pass's content pretty much reps the entire SNK company pretty well, the only thing that seems lacking would be more Metal Slug content, which in my opinion, makes Marco Rossi the most likely 2nd SNK rep.

For me:
Konami = Pyramid Head (Silent Hill)
SEGA = Dr. Eggman (Sonic)
Capcom = Amaterasu (Okami)
Namco = Klonoa (Klonoa)
Square Enix = Lara Croft (Tomb Raider)
Microsoft = Blinx (Blinx: The Time Sweeper)
SNK = Mai Shiranui but she's censored/covered up

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Namco has a mountain load of untapped potential. Not only from the fact they only have 1 character but also because a lot of their frontrunner series haven’t been deconfirmed. Except Tekken.

 

[SharkLord]

It makes me wonder why we haven't gotten a second Namco rep yet. Either due to Namco not sure who to pick, Sakurai priotizing other devs over them, or Namco intentionally not letting a second rep get in as to not seem biased here.

My theory is that they and/or Nintendo think the miscellaneous smaller representation spread throughout the game like the Galaxian and 1-UP Flag are sufficient representation rather than a second fighter. Even then, seeing as we've gotten third reps for companies like with Richter, Joker, and Sephiroth, it's still odd that they haven't gone to get another fighter.