Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[N3ON]

I think the only character that would get more hate than Byleth at this point is either Jonesy or yet another FE character.

The thing is that Fortnite would get balanced out by a horde of children, whereas FE is left to be FE again.

 

[Technomage]

I think the only character that would get more hate than Byleth at this point is either Jonesy or yet another FE character.

The thing is that Fortnite would get balanced out by a horde of children, whereas FE is left to be FE again.

Plus, Jonesy has the benefit of not being another anime guy/swordy/Fire Emblem waifu. I'd also still welcome him into Smash for representing the FPS TPS genre in it.

Though I gotta ask: Why do people hate Fortnite so much?

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Plus, Jonesy has the benefit of not being another anime guy/swordy/Fire Emblem waifu.

It is kind of ironic.

People hate the idea of more Fire Emblem characters or anime swordsmen, but they also seem to hate the idea of Jonesy being a character in Smash even though he is none of the sort, you know what I mean?

 

[Technomage]

It is kind of ironic.

People hate the idea of more Fire Emblem characters or anime swordsmen, but they also seem to hate the idea of Jonesy being a character in Smash even though he is none of the sort, you know what I mean?

Plus, for most people, it's not actually hate for more anime swordsman; it's actually hate for NOT getting any anime swordsmen that they want.

 

[BlondeLombax]

It is kind of ironic.

People hate the idea of more Fire Emblem characters or anime swordsmen, but they also seem to hate the idea of Jonesy being a character in Smash even though he is none of the sort, you know what I mean?

Nobody hates a crossover franchise more than its own fandom, I tell you what.

 

[cashregister9]

Plus, Jonesy has the benefit of not being another anime guy/swordy/Fire Emblem waifu. I'd also still welcome him into Smash for representing the FPS genre in it.

Though I gotta ask: Why do people hate Fortnite so much?

Fortnite is a Third Person Shooter.

To answer your question: Children, The internet hates anything that is popular with Kids. Of course there are always exceptions.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Plus, for most people, it's not actually hate for more anime swordsman; it's actually hate for NOT getting any anime swordsmen that they want.

Really? That is interesting...

 

[BlondeLombax]

My MW wields two swords at once, which has never been done in Smash before (discounting the Pits, who are ambiguous in the debate scene). How hated would she be with that factor taken into account?

 

[Gorgonzales]

What character could be hated enough to get anywhere near 80k dislikes on their character presentation?

-Zavok
-Another Zelda incarnation (like BOTW Zelda)
-Tracer
-Fall Guy

 

[Louie G.]

What character could be hated enough to get anywhere near 80k dislikes on their character presentation?

Maybe not quite to the same extent, but I feel like people wouldn't take very kindly to Overwatch or especially League of Legends.

Overwatch would have the additional blessing of getting in "over" Crash Bandicoot which would pile additional frustration on top of the already widely negative feelings toward the game and Blizzard as a whole.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Though I gotta ask: Why do people hate Fortnite so much?

From my point of view, the game barely stands up on its own merit and has to rely on memes, pop culture references and being F2P or else it would immediately fade away. Which is a problem I don't remember any of the other "hugely popular to the point of hate" games having.

There's a few other things too, but that's the gist of it for me.

It is kind of ironic.

People hate the idea of more Fire Emblem characters or anime swordsmen, but they also seem to hate the idea of Jonesy being a character in Smash even though he is none of the sort, you know what I mean?

I mean, these two things aren't related at all. You can want an entire Volume of Fire Emblem + Jonesy, or you can not want either. They aren't mutually exclusive concepts in any way.

 

[N3ON]

Plus, Jonesy has the benefit of not being another anime guy/swordy/Fire Emblem waifu.

Yeah but for all the caterwauling, it really depends what kind of anime swordy JRPG character we get.

Like most people were pretty fine if not happy with Sephiroth because he was Sephiroth. Most people would be fine/excited with Sora. The nicher you get, the more people are going to invoke those buzzwords. I mean you have sort of a sliding scale from the likes of FF7 down to like 2B and Crono, then probably Tales, and then you'd reach the nadir probably at around the JRPG series we talk about these days or FE again.

Not to say Tales is niche, but as far as JRPG swordies go, 2B and Crono just seem to get less ****.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Maybe not quite to the same extent, but I feel like people wouldn't take very kindly to Overwatch or especially League of Legends.

Overwatch would have the additional blessing of getting in "over" Crash Bandicoot which would pile additional frustration on top of the already widely negative feelings toward the game and Blizzard as a whole.

Man, hard to believe how much of a total 180 that game has suffered in PR. So much for TF2’s fan-proclaimed “rival.”

 

[Ivander]

I think the only character that would get more hate than Byleth at this point is either Jonesy or yet another FE character.

The thing is that Fortnite would get balanced out by a horde of children, whereas FE is left to be FE again.

I think it depends on who the Fire Emblem character is. Like I know people go, "Uh, Fire emblem...", but it's mostly because all the main characters tend to be very similar looking and whatnot, even if they bring a unique moveset. It's not so much "Fire Emblem" than it is, "another Fire emblem looking character who is also an Avatar character".
If we got someone like say, Reginn, who looks almost nothing like the other Fire Emblem characters and would far from play like them due to having a frickin' Mech and rocket missiles and whatnot, I'm pretty sure she'd be quite welcome for looking drastically different despite being a Fire Emblem character.

 

[ZelDan]

Plus, Jonesy has the benefit of not being another anime guy/swordy/Fire Emblem waifu. I'd also still welcome him into Smash for representing the FPS genre in it.

Though I gotta ask: Why do people hate Fortnite so much?

-They played Fortnite and personally didn't care for it

-dislike it because of hearing about it so much and possibly having it beat over their head alot by people on the internet or IRL, or "OMH POPULAR THING BAD!" if you will.

-they might not hate it but just simply don't want it in Smash, or atleast not get a fighter pack, due to it being much more recent or there are various other third parties they just simply find more interesting.

 

[Technomage]

-Zavok
-Another Zelda incarnation (like BOTW Zelda)
-Tracer
-Fall Guy

Yeah, I do think Tracer would get the same kind of hate that Bayo would get, but even more, since she'd likely be SSSSOOOOOOOOO BROKEN, like in this vid:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Would she really be that broken?

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

From my point of view, the game barely stands up on its own merit and has to rely on memes, pop culture references and being F2P or else it would immediately fade away. Which is a problem I don't remember any of the other "hugely popular to the point of hate" games having.

There's a few other things too, but that's the gist of it for me.



I mean, these two things aren't related at all. You can want an entire Volume of Fire Emblem + Jonesy, or you can not want either. They aren't mutually exclusive concepts in any way.

Yeah, I know, but what I said could also be said for Tracer, Fall Guy, among other characters who are not anime swordsmen/Fire Emblem characters.

 

[Guynamednelson]

From my point of view, the game barely stands up on its own merit and has to rely on memes, pop culture references and being F2P or else it would immediately fade away.

For that matter Fortnite had to rely on combining multiple gaming trends (battle royale+open world survivalcrafting) in order to gain its initial wave of popularity.

 

[Louie G.]

Man, hard to believe how much of a total 180 that game has suffered in PR. So much for TF2’s fan-proclaimed “rival.”

To be honest I wouldn't even mind Tracer that much - it feels almost hypocritical for me to get bent out of shape about which companies get involved in Smash when Nintendo themselves are among the very worst as of late. And I think Overwatch's cast is pretty diverse and fun where it would have something fresh to offer in Smash. Tracer herself would probably be really ****ing annoying to fight but certainly original nonetheless.

In any case it's not something I particularly want either, but with how often I've seen people place her among their absolute least wanted characters and the copious amounts of hate directed toward Overwatch in general I feel like I'm probably one of the more accepting people toward the idea lmao. I also think the TF2 rivalry is a bit silly, even though I'd play TF2 over OW any day of the week.

Also regardless of what I said I certainly don't want a LOL character so I do have some standards haha.

 

[N3ON]

I think it depends on who the Fire Emblem character is. Like I know people go, "Uh, Fire emblem...", but it's mostly because all the main characters tend to be very similar looking and whatnot, even if they bring a unique moveset. It's not so much "Fire Emblem" than it is, "another Fire emblem looking character who is also an Avatar character".
If we got someone like say, Reginn, who looks almost nothing like the other Fire Emblem characters and would far from play like them due to having a frickin' Mech and rocket missiles and whatnot, I'm pretty sure she'd be quite welcome for looking drastically different despite being a Fire Emblem character.

I think the only one it would have to be to not be inundated with as much backlash is Lyn. And even then she'll still get it pretty bad, just not nearly as bad as any other FE character. Even the ones that don't primarily use swords.

And I don't even know who Reginn is. I'm speaking about FE characters that are actually plausible additions were we to get another.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

This has popped up recently. In case anyone doesn't know, the Epic Games vs Apple trial has brought some interesting documents to the light, like Samus being at least considered for Fortnite, among other things.

Epic Vs. Apple Docs: Nintendo Specifically Bars Japanese Partners From Working With the Yakuza

https://www.ign.com/articles/nintendo-specifically-bars-japanese-partners-from-working-with-yakuza?utm_source=twitter

www.resetera.com

All this talk of Nintendo’s contracts having anti-yakuza clauses...
Warranting that neither party has ties to organized crime etc is a standard contract clause for any publicly traded company here. #researchishard

— James Wragg (@Captain_Pixel) May 4, 2021

I thought it was interesting to share. And well, I know someone was going to share it sooner or later, because I know people will understand this as a death sentence for Kiryu in Smash.

A bit late, but aren't the Yakuza the same kind of people who could "kill you five times before you hit the ground", if you know what I mean?

 

[SharkLord]

I'd be neutral on Overwatch in Smash. Played it because all my friends were, didn't click with me (Likely because I didn't have any experience in FPS games OR team-based games, so I didn't do very well). If we got an OW rep in Smash there wouldn't be much strong feelings one way or the other.

Though, I am curious as to how the music would be handled, since the only tracks are in the loading and victory screens, to my memory. Would probably be a Minecraft/Banjo situation, where it's heavy on remixes.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Yeah, I know, but what I said could also be said for Tracer, Fall Guy, among other characters who are not anime swordsmen/Fire Emblem characters.

Regardless of who you compare it to, it still doesn't really work because people just... like different stuff. People who dislike one popular franchise might like another.

In regards to Fortnite being possibly poorly received... I do not think so, regardless of my own distate for that game. Even if I don't personally want it anywhere near Smash, I kinda have to begrudgingly acknowledge that it is a big IP and that there would be several advantages for Nintendo to put Jonesy in, from a commercial standpoint.

I don't think any other of these huge games would get an overly negative reception - or at the very least not to the 2:1 dislike ratio Byleth got.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Regardless of who you compare it to, it still doesn't really work because people just... like different stuff. People who dislike one popular franchise might like another.

In regards to Fortnite being possibly poorly received... I do not think so, regardless of my own distate for that game. Even if I don't personally want it anywhere near Smash, I kinda have to begrudgingly acknowledge that it is a big IP and that there would be several advantages for Nintendo to put Jonesy in, from a commercial standpoint.

I don't think any other of these huge games would get an overly negative reception - or at the very least not to the 2:1 dislike ratio Byleth got.

I know, I know. Still, I think it is hypocritical for people to not like anime swordsmen or Fire Emblem characters, yet also hate that a character from another franchise who is not that who might make it into Smash. Yes, they are different, but you should see what I mean. People may want something different, but if it is still not what they want, they complain anyway.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Can I be honest with y’all?

There isn’t a single character that I would flat-out hate to have in Smash. I cannot explain why, I just don’t mind who’s in. Unless there’s a very good and understandable reason behind it, I just see such claims as being petty.

 

[Louie G.]

Personally, as I've said in the past, my distaste toward Fortnite in Smash has nothing to do with how I feel about the game itself but rather how little it has to offer. It's kind of very milquetoast and basic by design where I can't imagine Fortnite x Smash providing any really interesting or fun new flavor. Lacking in the music department, not a particularly interesting aesthetic, even from a moveset standpoint I can't imagine the whole building mechanic providing much that Steve doesn't already (aside from being even more annoying).

I just don't think it's a game that "fits" Smash, because it's not designed with that in mind - not super character driven or artistically striking or anything like that. A Battle Bus stage could be neat, I think there are some really really clear opportunities for Mii Costumes, but that's about it for me. Fortnite is a fine game in and of itself but I just don't think it has much of a place here.

 

[SharkLord]

Something worth noting is that when it comes to those like/dislike ratios, the bulk of it seems to be from people who at least pay a little attention to the speculation. If the casual audience heavily influenced it, I think the 2+ million purchases of Three Houses would come rushing in to support Byleth. I think the Sakurai Presents is largely watched by the (semi-) dedicated fanbase, and the casual audience wouldn't have as much influence on the likes and dislikes.

 

[metalhydra273]

80k is a pretty big bar no? For all the haters, especially for League, I think many could appreciate the crossover and the impact it's had. I feel like the only character that could manage something like this is a Jonesy e3 reveal, just because of the near universal hate Fortnite gets due to its heavy mainstream popularity in recent years. LoL is popular sure, but it's never been like Fortnite or Minecraft in catering to the mainstream public. I've seen literal toddlers playing the game, and it's popular in an annoying way, ingraining itself in cringe culture. Before he came out, some people were still somewhat apprehensive about Steve, me included. So I think Jonesy is the only appropriate answer here.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

One of the key factors to any potential future negative reactions to characters will be the context. Get another FE figure in one of the few remaining spots in Pass 2 and yes the salt will flow. But if you had another Fire Emblem character revealed (not as the last or only new fighter) in a Smash Direct for the next entry in the series? Yeah you'll get some eye rolls and groans as part of the live reaction by many, but it won't really dominate people's overall response.

Byleth will always be distinct for being the only fighter shown off in a mystery reveal with nothing to mitigate them (Nintendo news, other fighters) for fans who didn't care about FE. It'll take a very unique set of circumstances to replicate that particular kind of antipathy.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Something worth noting is that when it comes to those like/dislike ratios, the bulk of it seems to be from people who at least pay a little attention to the speculation. If the casual audience heavily influenced it, I think the 2+ million purchases of Three Houses would come rushing in to support Byleth. I think the Sakurai Presents is largely watched by the (semi-) dedicated fanbase, and the casual audience wouldn't have as much influence on the likes and dislikes.

I agree. To be fair, I only used it as an example because it still was an unprecedented ratio for any Smash trailer. My point is more along the lines of "I doubt Fortnite would get even that kind of backlash", rather than take YT likes and dislikes as gospel.

 

[SharkLord]

I agree. To be fair, I only used it as an example because it still was an unprecedented ratio for any Smash trailer. My point is more along the lines of "I doubt Fortnite would get even that kind of backlash", rather than take YT likes and dislikes as gospel.

Yeah, I don't think we'll ever surpass Byleth's level of hate. It wasn't just "This game is cringy" or "It's another lame swordboi," it was a perfect storm of various different sources of backlash, all conspiring together to give them the worst reception possible.

 

[Ivander]

I think the only one it would have to be to not be inundated with as much backlash is Lyn. And even then she'll still get it pretty bad, just not nearly as bad as any other FE character. Even the ones that don't primarily use swords.

And I don't even know who Reginn is. I'm speaking about FE characters that are actually plausible additions were we to get another.

Yeah, Reginn is the latest main character on Fire Emblem Heroes for Book 5.

She's the one who fights against Feh's main character Alfonse in the Mech. And as much as we want to dispute Gacha games or non-main titles, Fire Emblem Heroes has still been doing good for Nintendo and it has been acknowledged in Smash Ultimate that I would not be surprised that at some point for a later Smash game that FEHeroes gets a character. Reginn is so far easily the most unique out of the FEH main characters due to her being a Mech Fighter and one who's Mech shields almost the entire body, much like D.Va, compared to Bowser Jr.

 

[Louie G.]

For all the haters, especially for League, I think many could appreciate the crossover and the impact it's had. I feel like the only character that could manage something like this is a Jonesy e3 reveal, just because of the near universal hate Fortnite gets due to its heavy mainstream popularity in recent years. LoL is popular sure, but it's never been like Fortnite or Minecraft in catering to the mainstream public.

And yet most people, even those who actually play League of Legends, probably don't want Tencent anywhere near Smash Bros. Fortnite is "annoying" but largely inoffensive from a business perspective. People treat Tencent like the scum of the gaming industry and there's no way a crossover involving them would blow over so easily. This hatred is driven more by morality than petty boomer-ism. I mean, people dislike Epic Games too but the worst of that has always felt a little more driven by loyalty to Valve / Steam.

I mean hell, I think people would have assumed Steve to be more controversial than he actually was for similar reasons to what you've described. And I do think Minecraft and Fortnite are super different situations but the point is more that this hating of modern trends / what the kids like is driven by a less serious and often not-as-big-as-you-think group of people. Not to say Jonesy wouldn't be controversial, especially as one of the last characters in Ultimate ever, but hopefully you get what I'm trying to say here.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Something worth noting is that when it comes to those like/dislike ratios, the bulk of it seems to be from people who at least pay a little attention to the speculation. If the casual audience heavily influenced it, I think the 2+ million purchases of Three Houses would come rushing in to support Byleth. I think the Sakurai Presents is largely watched by the (semi-) dedicated fanbase, and the casual audience wouldn't have as much influence on the likes and dislikes.

Yeah, I don't think we'll ever surpass Byleth's level of hate. It wasn't just "This game is cringy" or "It's another lame swordboi," it's a perfect storm of various different sources of backlash, all conspiring together to give them the worst reception possible.

Yeah, with what you just said, with what many don't see or know, I would say ignorance is a big factor to all this, especially maybe the anime swordsmen thing. I mean, those who do not play games like Fire Emblem, too many characters aside, may not understand it, and that could lead to hatred for such another character in the game. I don't think such people were aware that it was not Sakurai's choice to add Byleth into the game. There is a not of not know here, if you know what I mean, and the not know may apply to anyone, especially the casual fans (but not limited to them) who don't pay attention to these kinds of things and details; which can all lead to ignorance, if you know what I mean.

 

[ZelDan]

Something worth noting is that when it comes to those like/dislike ratios, the bulk of it seems to be from people who at least pay a little attention to the speculation. If the casual audience heavily influenced it, I think the 2+ million purchases of Three Houses would come rushing in to support Byleth. I think the Sakurai Presents is largely watched by the (semi-) dedicated fanbase, and the casual audience wouldn't have as much influence on the likes and dislikes.

I'd also add that even with those reactions being largely semi dedicated/dedicated Smash fans (the ones who are more likely to be against more FE characters), Byleth managed to get 120+ likes, more than most other DLC characters.

like, yeah, 80k is alot of dislikes comapred to other characters, but it's pretty BS how people seem to just sweep those likes under the rug...

 

[SharkLord]

Yeah, Reginn is the latest main character on Fire Emblem Heroes for Book 5.

She's the one who fights against Feh's main character Alfonse in the Mech. And as much as we want to dispute Gacha games or non-main titles, Fire Emblem Heroes has still been doing good for Nintendo and it has been acknowledged in Smash Ultimate that I would not be surprised if at some point for a later Smash game that FEHeroes gets a character. Reginn is so far easily the most unique out of the FEH main characters due to her being a Mech Fighter and one who's Mech shields almost the entire body, much like D.Va, compared to Bowser Jr.

I'll always support Reginn for how she's the very archetype everyone fears - Blue-haired FE swordfighter - But she's also among the most unique options possible, which defeats the reason why everyone dislikes those FE swordfighters - Being too repetitive and "boring."

 

[Gorgonzales]

Yeah, Reginn is the latest main character on Fire Emblem Heroes for Book 5.

She's the one who fights against Feh's main character Alfonse in the Mech. And as much as we want to dispute Gacha games or non-main titles, Fire Emblem Heroes has still been doing good for Nintendo and it has been acknowledged in Smash Ultimate that I would not be surprised that at some point for a later Smash game that FEHeroes gets a character. Reginn is so far easily the most unique out of the FEH main characters due to her being a Mech Fighter and one who's Mech shields almost the entire body, much like D.Va, compared to Bowser Jr.

It's so weird seeing mech-related stuff in Fire Emblem

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think the only one it would have to be to not be inundated with as much backlash is Lyn. And even then she'll still get it pretty bad, just not nearly as bad as any other FE character. Even the ones that don't primarily use swords.

And I don't even know who Reginn is. I'm speaking about FE characters that are actually plausible additions were we to get another.

Real talk, in an alternate scenario where Robin was the latest FE newcomer by Ultimate and Lyn was the last FP1 character, she would absolutely get a lot of hype instead of tons of hate because she’d be the 5th FE character in this case.

 

[jadetheseer]

This is going to be a controversial statement but the only character that I would hate to have as DLC is Waluigi. If y’all really wanna know why I’ll tell y’all.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

This is going to be a controversial statement but the only character that I would hate to have as DLC is Waluigi. If y’all really wanna know why I’ll tell y’all.

Is it because he has never been in a mainline Mario game, something like that?