Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Rie Sonomura]

A decent amount of Touhou fangames on the Switch, Nintendo having attended one of the Reitaisai conventions... Yeah, I think Touhou is close enough. Besides, if you're big enough to get a crossover with Hello Kitty, the second biggest franchise period, you're at least decently large. Large enough to get Nintendo's attention, I'd wager.

^ this right here. That’s a pretty huge ass deal

 

[3BitSaurus]

Speaking of mods, I remembered someone here being able to add songs to Ultimate the other day.

I'm curious: how does it work in detail? Like, is there a file size or length limit, how does volume control work for these songs, how do you pick folders and customize their info tabs, etc.

And how much longer until we can also mod other stuff reliably? I'm especially interested in fanmade Spirits and Spirit battles.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Speaking of mods, I remembered someone here being able to add songs to Ultimate the other day.

I'm curious: how does it work in detail? Like, is there a file size or length limit, how does volume control work for these songs, how do you pick folders and customize their info tabs, etc.

And how much longer until we can also mod other stuff reliably? I'm especially interested in fanmade Spirits and Spirit battles.

Hinata brought it up, let’s see if she knows how it works

 

[SharkLord]

Unrelated but ArcSys is making a Dungeon Fighter Online game

Don't know much about the game but it looks pretty cool

 

[Mr. Robotto]

I drool at the thought of the inclusion of Touhou songs in Smash. Considering ZUN is really liberal with its IP and music, how many tracks are we potentially looking at here? 20?? 30??? Will ZUN beat SNK???? Will Beloved Tomboyish Girl get a beautiful remix made by Yoko Shimomu- faints

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I drool at the thought of the inclusion of Touhou songs in Smash. Considering ZUN is really liberal with its IP and music, how many tracks are we potentially looking at here? 20?? 30??? Will ZUN beat SNK???? Will Beloved Tomboyish Daughter get a beautiful remix made by Yoko Shimomu- faints

Didn’t that doujin leak hint at like roughly the same amount as terry?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Unrelated but ArcSys is making a Dungeon Fighter Online game

Don't know much about the game but it looks pretty cool

All I know about it is that it's HUGE in Asia, especially South Korea

 

[Munchi]

I highly doubt that Nintendo cares about how relaxed ZUN is with Touhou

 

[SharkLord]

All I know about it is that it's HUGE in Asia, especially South Korea

Also JOJONumber691 tried pushing it once at brought up how it has some pretty impressive numbers, though I don't quite remember what. Someone bring up that list for me, please.

 

[Ivander]

Unrelated but ArcSys is making a Dungeon Fighter Online game

Don't know much about the game but it looks pretty cool

Still waiting for that Fate fighting game......that isn't the Arcade game.

 

[RileyXY1]

I highly doubt that Nintendo cares how relaxed ZUN is with Touhou

They probably would, as I don't think that they want to directly advertise fan products.

 

[Idon]

Also JOJONumber691 tried pushing it once at brought up how it has some pretty impressive numbers, though I don't quite remember what. Someone bring up that list for me, please.

Yeah it's commonly referred to as "The biggest video game franchise you've never heard of"

4th in the highest grossing games of all time list is quite impressive.

Personally speaking, I played it back around 6 years ago and was a dedicated Monk main, though I gradually lost interest. Impressive to see how it's still faring massively well.

 

[SharkLord]

They probably would, as I don't think that they want to directly advertise fan products.

Even when they're just putting them up on the eShop for purchase?

 

[RileyXY1]

Even when they're just putting them up on the eShop for purchase?

That's mostly so ZUN can keep supporting Nintendo consoles. If Nintendo tries to boss him around he might decide to just stop putting Touhou games on Nintendo consoles entirely.

 

[Munchi]

That's mostly so ZUN can keep supporting Nintendo consoles. If Nintendo tries to boss him around he might decide to just stop putting Touhou games on Nintendo consoles entirely.

Touhou only has one official game in switch and it's exclusive to Japan so it doesn't have much support to "stop"

 

[SharkLord]

Yeah it's commonly referred to as "The biggest video game franchise you've never heard of"
View attachment 297550
4th in the highest grossing games of all time list is quite impressive.

Personally speaking, I played it back around 6 years ago and was a dedicated Monk main, though I gradually lost interest. Impressive to see how it's still faring massively well.

Yep, there's the beeg numbers. Now we'll take this game and discuss it's chances in Smash, logic be darned.

...Actually, who would be the character used to rep the series?

 

[RileyXY1]

Touhou also has lack of relevancy in the West, with it mostly existing in the form of fan translations.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Touhou only has one official game in switch and it's exclusive to Japan so it doesn't have much support to "stop"

Which official game?

Touhou also has lack of relevancy in the West, with it mostly existing in the form of fan translations.

There’s also memes. Never underestimate the power of memes.
Like that Bad Apple video? Or Ran Ran Ru? That’s many ppl’s gateway to Touhou

 

[RileyXY1]

Which official game?

There’s also memes. Never underestimate the power of memes.
Like that Bad Apple video? Or Ran Ran Ru? That’s many ppl’s gateway to Touhou

I don't think that they would pick a character because of memes (looking at you Waluigi).

 

[Cosmic77]

There’s also memes. Never underestimate the power of memes.
Like that Bad Apple video? Or Ran Ran Ru? That’s many ppl’s gateway to Touhou

To be fair, ask Waluigi how memes have helped him with Smash so far.

(Edit: DANG IT!! Someone got to the joke first!)

 

[Mr. Robotto]

I've actually been playing DFO after the announcement of DNF Duel, instantly picked the Berserker class because he looked rad. I'm calling dibs on him.

 

[PeridotGX]

small update on the AI Dungeon sets.

I drool at the thought of the inclusion of Touhou songs in Smash. Considering ZUN is really liberal with its IP and music, how many tracks are we potentially looking at here? 20?? 30??? Will ZUN beat SNK???? Will Beloved Tomboyish Girl get a beautiful remix made by Yoko Shimomu- faints

Sakurai: Hey Zun, how many touhou songs can we get?
Zun: 1.
Sakurai: Only one?
Zun: Sorry, one terabyte. you can have one terabyte of music.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

small update on the AI Dungeon sets.

Sakurai: Hey Zun, how many touhou songs can we get?
Zun: 1.
Sakurai: Only one?
Zun: Sorry, one terabyte. you can have one terabyte of music.

RIP my Switch’s storage

 

[Munchi]

Which official game?

There’s also memes. Never underestimate the power of memes.
Like that Bad Apple video? Or Ran Ran Ru? That’s many ppl’s gateway to Touhou

Sorry, it's a port Touhou Hyouibana ~ The Antinomy of Common Flowers that was announced in 2019 that hasn't come out yet, I forgot to specify

 

[JOJONumber691]

Nintendo connections aren't the end all be all, as we've seen with several characters now.

Besides, plenty of Touhou titles are on Switch atm, so she does have Nintendo connections.

But let’s go over the other four’s parent companies and what collaborations they have had with Nintendo:
SEGA has been one of Nintendo’s most loyal allies ever since the Dreamcast flopped. Down to the point where Mario and Sonic officially crossing over was in the talks for some while before the Olympics. Not only that but, back then at least, Sonic was just as associated with Gaming as Mario was. Not only that, but Lost World had DLC based Directly off of Yoshi and The Legend of Zelda EXCLUSIVE to the Wii U Version! Alongside Phantasy Star Online 2 having a Link outfit as well.
Minecraft is one of, if not the BIGGEST Games of All Time. Not only that, but Nintendo wax actively involved with the Development of the Super Mario Mash-Up Pack, which comes free with any and all physical copies of Minecraft on Nintendo Switch and Wii U, thus Nintendo gets a cut if physical profits on top of the $10 Switch Tax that they already enforce on almost all non-indie developers.
Toby Fox is the creator of one of the biggest games on the Internet, has an IP that is EXTREMELY popular all across the World and ESPECIALLY in Japan, with Sans and Mettaton both ranking within an official Nintendo Magazine’s Top 10 Nintendo Characters in Japan. Not only that, but Toby Fox was the composer of Little Town Hero, and got a Song on Pokémon Sword and Sheild, alongside beating Mr. Sakurai in a Smash Match in his own house, and getting a ride back to his apartment when he was done. Yeah, Toby Fox has quite the Nintendo connection, you know?
Bethesda had developed games for the Switch, NES (I’m not kidding about this one), has SEVERAL power brands, including Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and DOOM. Alongside a ton of Market Share, being a Poster Child for Modern Gaming, and being bought out by Microsoft recently. They even got Switch Exclusive amiibo Compatibility with the Link amiibo, which gets you a Special Tunic for Dragonborn with the looks of Link in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. Notice a Trend?
International Power Brands, with Direct Involvement from Nintendo on SEVERAL Projects (especially with SEGA and Ironically Enough Toby), with loyal fan bases and HUGE shares of the Gaming Landscape! For the most part, but composing for Pokémon is a pretty Big Deal. Now, let’s look at Touhou.
Touhou is big... in Japan, China, South Eastern Asia in General, but not so much in America and ESPECIALLY Europe! Not only that, but they have only gotten involved with Nintendo in the Switch Era with Fan-Made Spin-offs! Not even Mainline Titles! Not only that, but Nintendo and Touhou have NEVER, and I mean N E V E R officially crossed paths in anyway, shape, or form! I’m sorry, but until I see either Nintendo funding and publishing a fan project, or Nintendo and ZUN collaborating on a Project together, I will mark Reimu as impossible for Smash. Same evidence applies for any Valve Character as well so I will just repost this if you even bother mentioning a Valve Property! My rant is over!
The links in question:

Sonic Lost World - Part 17 - DLC Zones

Part 17, the final part of the Sonic Lost World playthrough shows the three DLC-exclusive zones you can download for free on the Nintendo e-shop.(I'm not sur...

youtu.be

Phantasy Star Online 2: Cloud will have a Link costume

Thank god for no region locking Yesterday’s Nintendo Direct was quite the show, but Japan got their own exclusive little...

www.destructoid.com

TECHNOLOGY; Nintendo Is Reported in Talks to Buy Sega (Published 2000)

Nintendo is reportedly in negotiations to buy Sega for about $2 billion; sales of Sega's game console, Dreamcast, missed its own forecasts by a million units, and company is expected to post its fourth consecutive annual loss when fiscal year ends in March; Sega has been struggling since Sony...

www.nytimes.com

Little Town Hero - Nintendo Direct 9.4.2019 - Nintendo Switch

Make a stand and seize every opportunity to protect your town in Little Town Hero, a new RPG from Game Freak, coming to Nintendo Switch on October 16! By the...

youtu.be

https://twitter.com/tobyfox/status/1194105461202657280?s=21

Minecraft Super Mario Mash-Up Pack for Wii U

On May 17, the Super Mario Mash-Up Pack comes to Minecraft: Wii U Edition as a free game update. Download the update to get new skins, a Super Mario-themed p...

youtu.be

https://youtu.be/e8SariuC2UI

https://youtu.be/DPh3HM6ofWU

Yeah. Now you can at least see why I believe any Touhou Content to be HIGHLY unlikely

 

[Idon]

Yep, there's the beeg numbers. Now we'll take this game and discuss it's chances in Smash, logic be darned.

...Actually, who would be the character used to rep the series?

I'm thinking definitely Male Slayer. An OG character, one of the characters with the most subclasses, and reputedly the "highest played class" in the game.

I'm also almost certain he'll be specifically the Berserker Subclass as of the Male Slayer subclasses, that is the most popular one. As such, it's the subclass that made it into DNF Duel.


Personally speaking though if they were to go with Slayer, I'd rather they go with the Blade Master subclass

... as it is unabashadly just Blue Sol Badguy

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Sorry, it's a port Touhou Hyouibana ~ The Antinomy of Common Flowers that was announced in 2019 that hasn't come out yet, I forgot to specify

I heard that they wanted to port EoSD to switch? I’d prefer PCB but whatev

 

[3BitSaurus]

Unrelated but ArcSys is making a Dungeon Fighter Online game

Don't know much about the game but it looks pretty cool

Huh, so that's the origin of the images I saw earlier today. Looks nice.

I drool at the thought of the inclusion of Touhou songs in Smash. Considering ZUN is really liberal with its IP and music, how many tracks are we potentially looking at here? 20?? 30??? Will ZUN beat SNK???? Will Beloved Tomboyish Girl get a beautiful remix made by Yoko Shimomu- faints

Synth horn intensifies.

Yeah it's commonly referred to as "The biggest video game franchise you've never heard of"
4th in the highest grossing games of all time list is quite impressive.

Personally speaking, I played it back around 6 years ago and was a dedicated Monk main, though I gradually lost interest. Impressive to see how it's still faring massively well.

Both DFO and Free Fire seem to share that title, apparently.

Also, did a quick check on the highest grossing game franchises and... 3 of the top 15 are from Tencent (DFO, CrossFire and League of Legends).

...Even as a resident LoL stan, I dunno how to feel about this.

 

[Munchi]

I heard that they wanted to port EoSD to switch? I’d prefer PCB but whatev

I remember hearing about it but to my knowledge there has been no official announcement

 

[TheCJBrine]

They probably would, as I don't think that they want to directly advertise fan products.

The fan products are not infringing on Nintendo’s rights, though, as they are not of Nintendo’s IP, and Nintendo isn’t against fan products as a whole anyway. It is none of Nintendo’s business as to what another person is like with fan content, as long as it’s that person’s IP and not theirs. They have no reason to care as it doesn’t affect their business and IPs.

Why do y’all act like this is some moral viewpoint from Nintendo and not just weird legal mumbo jumbo? If ZUN is alright with fangames of his content, they likely are too since it’s his and not theirs, and Nintendo is pretty much fine with fan content as long as it doesn’t seem like it’s in competition with their official works (hence why they only go after modifications, redistribution of their content, and fangames as overzealous and weird as it is to go after some of the fangames and mods they have taken down).

If it’s about wanting to advertise ZUN’s actual games, they could simply talk about how some of his games are on Steam, or maybe he’d port them to Switch or something. They sure didn’t care about Sakurai advertising the XBox.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm thinking definitely Male Slayer. An OG character, one of the characters with the most subclasses, and reputedly the "highest played class" in the game.

I'm also almost certain he'll be specifically the Berserker Subclass as of the Male Slayer subclasses, that is the most popular one. As such, it's the subclass that made it into DNF Duel.
View attachment 297551

Personally speaking though if they were to go with Slayer, I'd rather they go with the Blade Master subclass
View attachment 297553
... as it is unabashadly just Blue Sol Badguy

Teehee you give us Sol Blueguy in a post about a Slayer

 

[SharkLord]

Nintendo and Touhou have NEVER, and I mean N E V E R officially crossed paths in anyway, shape, or form!

Ah yes, Smash Bros. pic.twitter.com/XEdQW0VaR4

— Snoek (@NuclearSnoek) December 19, 2020

She's on the same screen as Kirby, I'd say that's close enough.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Hello y'all. What's the current discussion?

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Crash racing will be free to play if you have switch online for a week. Interestingly, this is the second Activision game that had this offer, the first being Overwatch. Probbaly doesn't mean a lot for Smash speculation but still intersting that Activision are the few third party that had that offer (the other was Disgaea).

Also if you haven't already try the game. It's really that good.

 

[SharkLord]

Hello y'all. What's the current discussion?

One half debates on whether or not Nintendo gives a %$#@ about Touhou fanworks and if that would affect Reimu's chances, one half Dungeon Fighter Online.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

One half debates on whether or not Nintendo gives a %$#@ about Touhou fanworks and if that would affect Reimu's chances, one half Dungeon Fighter Online.

Since that's the case, I feel in terms of Indie reps that Reimu and Shantae at this point have the best shot in getting in.

Kinda feel Shantae because from a marketing standpoint she'd make the most sense given how popular that series is now and probably as of current the most recognizable Indie.

 

[Lyncario]

Remember that one time Nintendo was at Reitaisai, the Touhou fan convention?

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Good times.

 

[CureParfait]

Yep, there's the beeg numbers. Now we'll take this game and discuss it's chances in Smash, logic be darned.

...Actually, who would be the character used to rep the series?

Dungeon Fighter wise, the rep is most likely the Male Slayer.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Unrelated but ArcSys is making a Dungeon Fighter Online game

Don't know much about the game but it looks pretty cool

I have no idea what this game is, so I can't really comment on anything. Though if it really is so huge in South Korea, maybe Nintendo would consider it? I remember that one theory about how the DLC characters were meant to appeal to specific regions, but clearly it didn't pan out...

Also, where's my ArcSys-My Hero Academia fighting game? I DEMAND AN ARCSYS-MY HERO ACADEMIA FIGHTING GAME!!!!!!!

 

[MooMew64]

But let’s go over the other four’s parent companies and what collaborations they have had with Nintendo:
SEGA has been one of Nintendo’s most loyal allies ever since the Dreamcast flopped. Down to the point where Mario and Sonic officially crossing over was in the talks for some while before the Olympics. Not only that but, back then at least, Sonic was just as associated with Gaming as Mario was. Not only that, but Lost World had DLC based Directly off of Yoshi and The Legend of Zelda EXCLUSIVE to the Wii U Version! Alongside Phantasy Star Online 2 having a Link outfit as well.
Minecraft is one of, if not the BIGGEST Games of All Time. Not only that, but Nintendo wax actively involved with the Development of the Super Mario Mash-Up Pack, which comes free with any and all physical copies of Minecraft on Nintendo Switch and Wii U, thus Nintendo gets a cut if physical profits on top of the $10 Switch Tax that they already enforce on almost all non-indie developers.
Toby Fox is the creator of one of the biggest games on the Internet, has an IP that is EXTREMELY popular all across the World and ESPECIALLY in Japan, with Sans and Mettaton both ranking within an official Nintendo Magazine’s Top 10 Nintendo Characters in Japan. Not only that, but Toby Fox was the composer of Little Town Hero, and got a Song on Pokémon Sword and Sheild, alongside beating Mr. Sakurai in a Smash Match in his own house, and getting a ride back to his apartment when he was done. Yeah, Toby Fox has quite the Nintendo connection, you know?
Bethesda had developed games for the Switch, NES (I’m not kidding about this one), has SEVERAL power brands, including Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and DOOM. Alongside a ton of Market Share, being a Poster Child for Modern Gaming, and being bought out by Microsoft recently. They even got Switch Exclusive amiibo Compatibility with the Link amiibo, which gets you a Special Tunic for Dragonborn with the looks of Link in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. Notice a Trend?
International Power Brands, with Direct Involvement from Nintendo on SEVERAL Projects (especially with SEGA and Ironically Enough Toby), with loyal fan bases and HUGE shares of the Gaming Landscape! For the most part, but composing for Pokémon is a pretty Big Deal. Now, let’s look at Touhou.
Touhou is big... in Japan, China, South Eastern Asia in General, but not so much in America and ESPECIALLY Europe! Not only that, but they have only gotten involved with Nintendo in the Switch Era with Fan-Made Spin-offs! Not even Mainline Titles! Not only that, but Nintendo and Touhou have NEVER, and I mean N E V E R officially crossed paths in anyway, shape, or form! I’m sorry, but until I see either Nintendo funding and publishing a fan project, or Nintendo and ZUN collaborating on a Project together, I will mark Reimu as impossible for Smash. Same evidence applies for any Valve Character as well so I will just repost this if you even bother mentioning a Valve Property! My rant is over!
The links in question:

Sonic Lost World - Part 17 - DLC Zones

Part 17, the final part of the Sonic Lost World playthrough shows the three DLC-exclusive zones you can download for free on the Nintendo e-shop.(I'm not sur...

youtu.be

Phantasy Star Online 2: Cloud will have a Link costume

Thank god for no region locking Yesterday’s Nintendo Direct was quite the show, but Japan got their own exclusive little...

www.destructoid.com

TECHNOLOGY; Nintendo Is Reported in Talks to Buy Sega (Published 2000)

Nintendo is reportedly in negotiations to buy Sega for about $2 billion; sales of Sega's game console, Dreamcast, missed its own forecasts by a million units, and company is expected to post its fourth consecutive annual loss when fiscal year ends in March; Sega has been struggling since Sony...

www.nytimes.com

Little Town Hero - Nintendo Direct 9.4.2019 - Nintendo Switch

Make a stand and seize every opportunity to protect your town in Little Town Hero, a new RPG from Game Freak, coming to Nintendo Switch on October 16! By the...

youtu.be

https://twitter.com/tobyfox/status/1194105461202657280?s=21

Minecraft Super Mario Mash-Up Pack for Wii U

On May 17, the Super Mario Mash-Up Pack comes to Minecraft: Wii U Edition as a free game update. Download the update to get new skins, a Super Mario-themed p...

youtu.be

https://youtu.be/e8SariuC2UI

https://youtu.be/DPh3HM6ofWU

Yeah. Now you can at least see why I believe any Touhou Content to be HIGHLY unlikely

Honestly, this feels like gatekeeping to me. The DLC has had a mix of smaller properties as well as larger ones: I don't think working with only big global companies has been an overarching thing when several characters in the DLC have appealed to only specific regions, most notably and .

Not to sound like a broken record, but I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here: We have several franchises and properties in Smash now that have companies who allow fan works:

- Sonic Mania was spearheaded by people who got their start in game development from making Sonic ROM hacks.

- Toby Fox got his start making a Halloween hack for Earthbound, and the song Megalovania made it's way into the game after originating from said ROM hack, technically meaning we do now have Nintendo fan content officially in Smash now.

- Minecraft is pretty much defined by it's fan content.

Honestly, the list goes on, but these are the immediate things that jump out at me.

Plus, if needing to have big connections is important for Touhou, multiple people pointed out the connections it has via brand deal with Hello Kitty and even a huge convention in Japan that is dedicated for its products. Plus, the fan games are just as legitimate as the mainline entries given that Touhou is an open source project. Being popular primarily in the east isn't a barrier either when 9 times out of 10, Smash and Nintendo themselves always cater to their own home market first and everywhere else second.

EDIT: Not to mention the Kirby crossover: Thank you SharkLord for pointing that one out! Honestly forgot about it for some reason when typing this out, lol.