Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[JOJONumber691]

Y’all ever just

think about the time a certain douchebag named Alberto tagged Harada while other For Smash Twitter accounts supporting the likes of Sora, Doom Guy, Master Chief, Jonesy, and Arle were sharing memes with each other and Harada had the mother of all Diva Moments threatening to blacklist them from Smash?

pass 2 was finalized in January right? And the incident happened in 2019

what if those characters were indeed blacklisted...?

I wouldn't be surprised if Reimu was blacklisted before DLC even began lol. And I wouldn't be surprised if the other four got blacklisted because of Harada lol.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I wouldn't be surprised if Reimu was blacklisted before DLC even began lol. And I wouldn't be surprised if the other four got blacklisted because of Harada lol.

Reimu wasn’t in that tweet though... but Crash was

You guys are a spammer. I talk with Mr.Sakurai & BandaiNamco's Smash development team so that your request will NOT be approved as much as possible.

And *Muted* bye.

@Alberto72892547 @JonesyForSmash @SoraForSmash @DoomSquidKid @PutCrashInSmash @ArleForSmash @HaloGuyForSmash

— Katsuhiro Harada (@Harada_TEKKEN) October 18, 2019

....maybe Crash was already locked in before Harada made Sakurai swing the ban hammer? Probably?

 

[SharkLord]

Y’all ever just

think about the time a certain douchebag named Alberto tagged Harada while other For Smash Twitter accounts supporting the likes of Sora, Doom Guy, Master Chief, Jonesy, and Arle were sharing memes with each other and Harada had the mother of all Diva Moments threatening to blacklist them from Smash?

pass 2 was finalized in January right? And the incident happened in 2019

what if those characters were indeed blacklisted...?

I highly doubt Nintendo's going to blacklist profitable potential choices just because Harada threw a fit

I wouldn't be surprised if Reimu was blacklisted before DLC even began lol.

And where does this info come from?

 

[helloiamhere]

Harada busts through Sakurais door at Bandai Namco offices and slices down the DLC plans with a Katana; because of this Sakurai had to get Seph as a backup plan for Sora.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Harada busts through Sakurais door at Bandai Namco offices and slices down the DLC plans with a Katana; because of this Sakurai had to get Seph as a backup plan for Sora.

Headcanon

A C C E P T E D .

 

[JOJONumber691]

Reimu wasn’t in that tweet though... but Crash was

You guys are a spammer. I talk with Mr.Sakurai & BandaiNamco's Smash development team so that your request will NOT be approved as much as possible.

And *Muted* bye.

@Alberto72892547 @JonesyForSmash @SoraForSmash @DoomSquidKid @PutCrashInSmash @ArleForSmash @HaloGuyForSmash

— Katsuhiro Harada (@Harada_TEKKEN) October 18, 2019

....maybe Crash was already locked in before Harada made Sakurai swing the ban hammer? Probably?

Who knows. I'm hoping Crash and Reimu happen, they both deserve the Invite, but I simply can't see Crash and ESPECIALLY Reimu happening. Reimu in particular I personally view as impossible due to Nintendo themselves. We all know they cancelled a Splatoon Tournament over some easy to change Usernames, so I think Nintendo would ABSOLUTELY have a problem with Touhou in Smash.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Who knows. I'm hoping Crash and Reimu happen, they both deserve the Invite, but I simply can't see Crash and ESPECIALLY Reimu happening. Reimu in particular I personally view as impossible due to Nintendo themselves. We all know they cancelled a Splatoon Tournament over some easy to change Usernames, so I think Nintendo would ABSOLUTELY have a problem with Touhou in Smash.

Uh... what? How do Touhou and Splatoon have any sort of correlation?

besides there’s like a fair share of Touhou spin-offs on switch

 

[cashregister9]

Reimu wasn’t in that tweet though... but Crash was

You guys are a spammer. I talk with Mr.Sakurai & BandaiNamco's Smash development team so that your request will NOT be approved as much as possible.

And *Muted* bye.

@Alberto72892547 @JonesyForSmash @SoraForSmash @DoomSquidKid @PutCrashInSmash @ArleForSmash @HaloGuyForSmash

— Katsuhiro Harada (@Harada_TEKKEN) October 18, 2019

....maybe Crash was already locked in before Harada made Sakurai swing the ban hammer? Probably?

I don't think Harada actually blacklisted those characters.

Harada is one of the people at Bamco that would know who the smash characters are, so the fact that he mentions them at all might mean something...

Or Harada was just throwing a Twitter fit and did not actually think about any ramifications of who exactly he tagged.

 

[Momotsuki]

Nintendo doesn't care about what's done or is not done with IPs that are not theirs. They're just deranged freaks when it comes to their own IPs. There're things you could say or maybe not say about Reimu's odds. Touhou's connection to fanwork isn't really one of them - considering we just got Steve - a character hailing from a game with a vibrant and developer-endorsed mod scene (with former Minecraft modders even now working at Mojang.)

Reimu's odds are quite good. No lock, certainly, but they're looking good as it stands. Saying she's "impossible" is ridiculous especially for a reason like that.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Harada busts through Sakurais door at Bandai Namco offices and slices down the DLC plans with a Katana; because of this Sakurai had to get Seph as a backup plan for Sora.

So what you're saying is... Sephiroth slicing Galeem in half was directly inspired by Harada and is actually a cry for help from the Smash team?

I can accept that.

 

[SharkLord]

Uh... what? How do Touhou and Splatoon have any sort of correlation?

besides there’s like a fair share of Touhou spin-offs on switch

^
Nintendo would only care about fangames if it was a fangame of their property. Touhou is owned by ZUN and not Nintendo, therefore they would not give two %$#@s about what the fans do with it.

considering we just got Steve - a character hailing from a game with a vibrant and developer-endorsed mod scene (with former Minecraft modders even now working at Mojang.)

Ah frick I forgot about the Minecraft mods. That too, Minecraft has a ton of fanworks and Nintendo's completely fine with Steve.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What amuses me the most is how Harada reacted tbh

he coulda just silently muted or blocked them, or replied saying “do not tag me in trivial matters”

but no mans goes full #YourMostWantedIsOverParty

 

[JOJONumber691]

Nah. I'm talking about Nintendo having an issue with Touhou in Smash. I don't think they have an issue with Touhou on their console, since they aren't involved with the approval of content on the eShop. But, I do believe Nintendo would have a MAJOR Problem with Touhou in a Game that they publish. Mostly because of how ZUN is essentially the complete opposite of Nintendo. ZUN loves his fans and Straightup allows his fans to embrace what he's created in any form! Heck, he even allows people to profit off their Fangames with no issues! Thus creating a Healthy and Thriving Community to form.

Nintendo HATES their fans, never allowing any modifications to their base product under any circumstances, even if it makes the Base Product better (Coughs in Project M) Essentially, Nintendo would offer you free food, but would murder you on the spot if you wanted to add or modify the food in ANYWAY P O S S I B L E !

 

[Eldrake]

I don't think Harada actually blacklisted those characters.

Harada is one of the people at Bamco that would know who the smash characters are, so the fact that he mentions them at all might mean something...

Or Harada was just throwing a Twitter fit and did not actually think about any ramifications of who exactly he tagged.

Well he's Harada, so I could see him specifically mentioning these as a "#¤%& you" type of disconfirmation power move of spite.

But he's Harada, so there's no way we can actually know if that really was a power move until we know the rest of the pass.

 

[SharkLord]

Nah. I'm talking about Nintendo having an issue with Touhou in Smash. I don't think they have an issue with Touhou on their console, since they aren't involved with the approval of content on the eShop. But, I do believe Nintendo would have a MAJOR Problem with Touhou in a Game that they publish. Mostly because of how ZUN is essentially the complete opposite of Nintendo. ZUN loves his fans and Straightup allows his fans to embrace what he's created in any form! Heck, he even allows people to profit off their Fangames with no issues! Thus creating a Healthy and Thriving Community to form.

Nintendo HATES their fans, never allowing any modifications to their base product under any circumstances, even if it makes the Base Product better (Coughs in Project M) Essentially, Nintendo would offer you free food, but would murder you on the spot if you wanted to add or modify the food in ANYWAY P O S S I B L E !

I mean Sonic is pretty supportive of fangames too, if not quite as much as Touhou. There's also Minecraft and the mods, which TimeSpace mentioned above. I don't think Nintendo would really care unless it's their IP, which Touhou clearly is not.

 

[Momotsuki]

Nah. I'm talking about Nintendo having an issue with Touhou in Smash. I don't think they have an issue with Touhou on their console, since they aren't involved with the approval of content on the eShop. But, I do believe Nintendo would have a MAJOR Problem with Touhou in a Game that they publish. Mostly because of how ZUN is essentially the complete opposite of Nintendo. ZUN loves his fans and Straightup allows his fans to embrace what he's created in any form! Heck, he even allows people to profit off their Fangames with no issues! Thus creating a Healthy and Thriving Community to form.

Nintendo HATES their fans, never allowing any modifications to their base product under any circumstances, even if it makes the Base Product better (Coughs in Project M) Essentially, Nintendo would offer you free food, but would murder you on the spot if you wanted to add or modify the food in ANYWAY P O S S I B L E !

To throw yet another thing at this nonsense argument. The official Sonic Twitter page has dunked on Nintendo for their BS numerous times in the past. Sonic is in Smash. He's been in Smash for quite a while, actually.

 

[SNEKeater]

Harada likes to troll people. I wouldn't worry that much about what he tweeted back then. I mean, not saying he wasn't actually pissed by those fan accounts, I'm sure he was, but still.

Keep in mind we're talking about a guy that does things like this

Spoiler

 

[TheCJBrine]

I doubt Harada actually did anything and probably just tweeted that to scare people; I believe he’s done similar before, iirc someone mentioned that when his tweet was more relevant, and what caused him to do that was one guy in a ForSmash meme chain tagging him and Sakurai with an Infinity War meme, and nobody noticing the tags when further replying memes until Harada tweeted that in response. (spamming devs was not the intention of those participating in the meme chain, no one noticed the random dude’s meme having those tags; he wasn’t a ForSmash account, either)

Other ForSmash accounts were also part of the meme chain, including Steve’s iirc, so if Harada actually tried to do anything, Nintendo and Sakurai likely didn’t care.

Also, this argument against Reimu based on ZUN not having the same views on fanworks as Nintendo is complete nonsense. It’s none of Nintendo’s business, I doubt they care how others treat their IPs as long as it’s not infringing on Nintendo’s own.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Harada likes to troll people. I wouldn't worry that much about what he tweeted back then. I mean, not saying he wasn't actually pissed by those fan accounts, I'm sure he was, but still.

Keep in mind we're talking about a guy that does things like this
[image removed]

Uh. May wanna spoiler box that with a swearing content warning. Otherwise this counts as censor dodging

 

[Momotsuki]

Dear Sakurai, and Smash idiots...

Ergo, given past examples of big-name Japanese developers going off at the Smash community (who kind of deserve it), I don't know if Harada's rant here means anything besides being really annoyed by really annoying people.

 

[Cosmic77]

It's not that hard for me to imagine a future where we don't get any of these characters. A few of them already seem less likely since this post was made (October 2019).

I don't think Harada actually did anything, but there's probably going to be a few who believe that he stopped Crash and Arle when in reality they were never strongly considered in the first place.

 

[JOJONumber691]

To throw yet another thing at this nonsense argument. The official Sonic Twitter page has dunked on Nintendo for their BS numerous times in the past. Sonic is in Smash. He's been in Smash for quite a while, actually.

Okay, Sonic and Steve could be used as a Counterargument but there is one word that debunks said counterargument: Money. Not only that, but both had initial negotiations while Iwata was President, thus being more open to fan projects (considering how long Steve's Negotiations took I definitely wouldn't be surprised.) Not only that, but both Sonic and Minecraft make so much money, and both Microsoft and SEGA are so valuable business wise that rejecting their characters from Smash would be corporate suicide and Nintendo knows it.

 

[Momotsuki]

Okay, Sonic and Steve could be used as a Counterargument but there is one word that debunks said counterargument: Money. Not only that, but both had initial negotiations while Iwata was President, thus being more open to fan projects (considering how long Steve's Negotiations took I definitely wouldn't be surprised.) Not only that, but both Sonic and Minecraft make so much money, and both Microsoft and SEGA are so valuable business wise that rejecting their characters from Smash would be corporate suicide and Nintendo knows it.

You haven't really debunked anything, you're just kind of moving the goalposts and reaching. in an attempt to prove - ...something? I don't know.

If Nintendo rejected Sonic and Steve they'd still be very popular requests (the former especially) and nobody would've broken an NDA to say that it got explicitly shot down some time before. Also, Sonic was actually Sakurai and co.'s idea if I remember correctly, as Sonic himself was a last-minute addition to Brawl on account of overwhelming fan demand.

 

[JOJONumber691]

You haven't really debunked anything, you're just kind of moving the goalposts and reaching.

Nintendo is that extreme, and I do believe that Fanworks can go against a character's chances. Heck, I'm kinda shocked sans and Vault Boy even got Mii Costumes considering Nintendo would've been willing to reject said costumes.

 

[Momotsuki]

Nintendo is that extreme, and I do believe that Fanworks can go against a character's chances. Heck, I'm kinda shocked sans a Vault Boy even got Mii Costumes considering Nintendo would've been willing to reject said costumes.

Not only have you proven so little, you had to end it off by listing yet another example that goes against your point. Why, dude? I like ya, so give yourself a break.

 

[MooMew64]

Nintendo is that extreme, and I do believe that Fanworks can go against a character's chances. Heck, I'm kinda shocked sans a Vault Boy even got Mii Costumes considering Nintendo would've been willing to reject said costumes.

Nintendo doesn't care about what other companies do with their IP, though. As long as no one is stepping on their toes with their properties, Nintendo doesn't give a hoot what people do with other IPs: They just don't want people touching their stuff.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Nintendo is that extreme, and I do believe that Fanworks can go against a character's chances. Heck, I'm kinda shocked sans and Vault Boy even got Mii Costumes considering Nintendo would've been willing to reject said costumes.

Can you explain why Nintendo would care about how other people treat their IPs when it doesn’t affect their business?

Nintendo doesn’t hate fan projects and stuff as a whole, otherwise you’d see them taking down all Nintendo fan videos on YouTube and plenty of artwork. They’re just kinda paranoid and overzealous about protecting their IP when it comes to fangames, some Let’s Plays (although they seem light on that now, moreso referring to when they had that program for content creators), Smash tournaments, and people redistributing their stuff; I highly doubt they give enough of a crap to stick their nose in another person’s or company’s business.

 

[JOJONumber691]

You haven't really debunked anything, you're just kind of moving the goalposts and reaching. in an attempt to prove - ...something? I don't know.

If Nintendo rejected Sonic and Steve they'd still be very popular requests (the former especially) and nobody would've broken an NDA to say that it got explicitly shot down some time before. Also, Sonic was actually Sakurai and co.'s idea if I remember correctly, as Sonic himself was a last-minute addition to Brawl on account of overwhelming fan demand.

Nah. Sonic was a last minute addition because he was always planned for Brawl, but SEGA initially rejected the Requests for the Blue Blur until '06 flopped as hard as it did. SEGA knew Sonic was dead if they didn't allow him in Smash as a Marketing hype boost. Since Sonic was already planned for Brawl but rejected, that caused Sakurai's team to delay the game at the last minute to include Sonic in Brawl. Also, as a Side Note, god I wish Mario got '06'd so badly in retrospect to Nintendo's actions towards fans.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

What amuses me the most is how Harada reacted tbh

he coulda just silently muted or blocked them, or replied saying “do not tag me in trivial matters”

but no mans goes full #YourMostWantedIsOverParty

tbf, isnt Harada the one with the Dont Ask Me For **** shirt?

 

[MooMew64]

Can you explain why Nintendo would care about how other people treat their IPs when it doesn’t affect their business?

Nintendo doesn’t hate fan projects and stuff as a whole, otherwise you’d see them taking down all Nintendo fan videos on YouTube and plenty of artwork. They’re just kinda paranoid and overzealous about protecting their IP, I highly doubt they give enough of a crap to stick their nose in another person’s or company’s business.

TBH the only content Nintendo freaks out about is fan games, mods, and direct uploads of their music, and that's only because:

- Fan games and mods could be seen as direct challenges to their own content (They're not, but this is how Nintendo views them).

- Their music is their property, which they have a very strict "Don't touch my stuff" policy on.

Reviews, artwork, remixes, and etcetera fall under transformative work, so Nintendo could care less.

 

[cashregister9]

Nintendo is that extreme, and I do believe that Fanworks can go against a character's chances. Heck, I'm kinda shocked sans and Vault Boy even got Mii Costumes considering Nintendo would've been willing to reject said costumes.

So let me get this straight... Your argument is Touhou cannot get content in smash because there is a lot of Fan content for it? First off you already debunked yourself with the Vault Boy example second off Minecraft. Hell if you really take definitions into account Competitive Tournaments are considered "Fan Content" This is an argument that makes 0 sense.

Yes, Nintendo is DMCA heavy, they have been for years. But everything they have DMCA'd was Nintendo stuff and Nintendo technically was in the Legal right to do it regardless of how much of a **** move it was. Nintendo is not in the legal right to DMCA a fangame that has nothing to do with their IP

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

You know we've reached deep fan discussion when a potential online s***post is being considered a greater barrier for a character getting into Smash as paid DLC than their relative lack of any presence in the West is.

 

[toonito]

What about extra alternate costumes (as in ones that go past the 8 count)?

KH Costume
Fire Mario, DK costume (blue shirt, red overalls)
Mask
Armored Mewtwo
Black with Red Eyes (yes I want a red eyes black dragon alt)
SFV (Beard)
SFV (Banana Hair)
Garou MOTW, FF1 outfit (red jacket)
no helmet

 

[JOJONumber691]

Honestly, I do think it's a case by case basis. Either way, Reimu doesn't have the Nintendo Connection needed to circumvent the Fan Game thing that even Bethesda to some extent had. And that makes me sad.

 

[MooMew64]

Honestly, I do think it's a case by case basis. Either way, Reimu doesn't have the Nintendo Connection needed to circumvent the Fan Game thing that even Bethesda to some extent had. And that makes me sad.

Nintendo connections aren't the end all be all, as we've seen with several characters now.

Besides, plenty of Touhou titles are on Switch atm, so she does have Nintendo connections.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Guys, Diavolo's clearly right, Nintendo would never allow it! Now if you excuse me, I'm off to play Touhou Luna Nights, a fangame, on the Switch after playing Sonic Mania to celebrate it getting content in the game before playing Minecraft tomorrow with my Switch buddies.

 

[Speed Weed]

Nintendo HATES their fans, never allowing any modifications to their base product under any circumstances, even if it makes the Base Product better (Coughs in Project M) Essentially, Nintendo would offer you free food, but would murder you on the spot if you wanted to add or modify the food in ANYWAY P O S S I B L E !

I hate to be the guy who drops the snarky one-liner, but if your unironic takeaway from this whole situation is that Nintendo is evil and hates their fans and is doing all this purely to spite them, then I honestly think you should reconsider your entire argument here

 

[SharkLord]

A decent amount of Touhou fangames on the Switch, Nintendo having attended one of the Reitaisai conventions... Yeah, I think Touhou is close enough. Besides, if you're big enough to get a crossover with Hello Kitty, the second biggest franchise period, you're at least decently large. Large enough to get Nintendo's attention, I'd wager.

 

[shinhed-echi]

What about extra alternate costumes (as in ones that go past the 8 count)?

Oh I don't have that many but let's see:

• Super Sonic
• Silver Mecha Sonic
• Metal Sonic reskin

• Purple & White (Flashman)
• Blue & White (Hard man or Air man)
• Pink (Quick man)
• Helmet less
• Protoman reskin

• Rek (VI)
• Madason (V)
• Alef (I)
• Alef Kenshin (Original Swords)
• Prince of Mindenhall (II)
• Sofia (IV)
• Girl Erdrick (III)

• Yellow wireframe, red gloves (Arcade champion)
• All missing colors from Smash 4

 

[Cutie Gwen]

A decent amount of Touhou fangames on the Switch, Nintendo having attended one of the Reitaisai conventions... Yeah, I think Touhou is close enough. Besides, if you're big enough to get a crossover with Hello Kitty, the second biggest franchise period, you're at least decently large. Large enough to get Nintendo's attention, I'd wager.

Secretly Nintendo's never heard of Touhou and are currently losing their **** at Reimu and Kirby being on the same screen in a game on both 3ds and Switch