Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Þe 1 → Way]

Sakurai POTD.

pic.twitter.com/SuSrfU94YK

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) April 9, 2021

Top 10 Images Taken Before Disasters

 

[N3ON]

Speak for yourself, I've been fairly on point and never fell for much of the trash theories y'all be droppin out here.

The only fails I really have were not realizing that Sakurai and Co could pick more than one Dragon Quest Hero and thinking Box Theory held no weight. Other than that I've been clean as a whistle and calling out what happens before other people can pull their head outta the swamp.

Yeah, you just put your faith in Fatman and Cacomallow. How'd that work out?

I mean, you do know any of us can just read through the old Geno thread, right? This isn't remotely true.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

WELP. THERE WE HAVE IT. XENOBLADE X WON'T BE MENTIONED AT ALL BY HIM

 

[PeridotGX]

But..nobody DOES play Minecraft for Steve..they play for the building and exploring aspects of the game and using use other skins..a stage and Mii costume would have been pretty adequate for the series.
Your comparison is disingenuous and you know it..especially considering we're talking about a game series that most people got into because they like the characters that are in the game(s)..not to mention that in most games you play or interact with the characters in the game, most people in Minecraft don't play as nor interact with Steve, typically using skins of characters from games where they actually have an attachment to the characters there-in..like I play as Rosalina when I play Minecraft.

i don't play mario for mario, i play mario for the platforming. i guess the mario series should only have a stage.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I don't appreciate Sakurai recreating pictures of my friends and I at 3am waiting for a cab home

So, out of which one are you?

 

[Cosmic77]

I think people are focusing too much on the name and not enough on the moveset.

Steve isn't supposed to represent a character so much as he is an entire game and its mechanics. A lot of people play Minecraft, so to them, it's kinda cool seeing a blocky character run around, gather materials, and fight just like their avatar in Minecraft.

 

[DarthEnderX]

choosing Mikey instead of best turtle Leonardo? Herasy.

Listen...Leo IS objectively the best Ninja Turtle.

...but he's also an anime swordsman.

 

[SharkLord]

So, out of which one are you?

Depends on how long the hike is. On nice short ones, I'm Pyra. If we take a wrong turn and add an extra hour to the hike, I'm as dead inside as ROB.

 

[DevaAshera]

i don't play mario for mario, i play mario for the platforming. i guess the mario series should only have a stage.

You, maybe, but a lot of people are attached to the characters of Mario..why do you think so many people want Waluigi in Smash? Each character has their own appearance and personality..the latter of which can't be said of Minecraft characters..

For me though, I just think the block-based characters of Minecraft are ugly as sin and the limited animations of the characters are just aesthetically displeasing..

 

[N3ON]

So, out of which one are you?

Hard to say. I've spent nights asking if people are ok. I've spent nights wanting them to show me their moves. I've spent nights swaying as I glow red and wishing I'd worn something less ridiculous.

So at one point or another I've been all of them.

Depends on how long the hike is. On nice short ones, I'm Pyra. If we take a wrong turn and add an extra hour to the hike, I'm as dead inside as ROB.

Yes... hiking... that was also what I was referencing as well...

>_>
<_<

 

[TheCJBrine]

But..nobody DOES play Minecraft for Steve..they play for the building and exploring aspects of the game and using use other skins..a stage and Mii costume would have been pretty adequate for the series.
Your comparison is disingenuous..especially considering we're talking about a game series that most people got into because they like the characters that are in the game(s)..not to mention that in most games you play or interact with the characters in the game, most people in Minecraft don't play as nor interact with Steve, typically using skins of characters from games where they actually have an attachment to the characters there-in..like I play as Rosalina when I play Minecraft.

No one plays it for Steve, but that doesn’t mean they don’t like Steve. Like, people don’t play Mario just for Mario, some people even like other characters more than Mario himself, that doesn’t mean they dislike Mario and so he shouldn’t be playable in Smash; most people don’t play a game purely just for its characters. There are a lot of Minecraft fans who like Steve and Alex and are attached to them, some wishing to see them get expanded on as characters besides the few details they’ve received over the years (there was a Lego Magazine that gave Steve and Alex a little bit more identity beyond appearance, and Mojang said a thing about Steve as an answer to someone in an AskMojang video but yeah still few details unless you count the Nether Update trailer and how they act in it, idk).

No game needs anything, they could be represented in different ways. If you wanna accurately represent Minecraft’s gameplay and stuff though, then technically you really do need Steve or another Minecraft character at least. Or of course, he could’ve just been a mii or whatever, but that would’ve disappointed a lot of people, because they wanted him as a fighter because they really like him and wanted to play as him with a cool and fun moveset, even if the mii is better than nothing.

Basically...I don’t understand these arguments being applied to Minecraft and Steve specifically, they literally fit any game.

 

[SirCamp]

Okay, so here's a game for you. Kind of inspired by that "villain roster" discussion the other day.

You can make a Fighter's Pass 3, with six whole characters in it - but it has to have some kind of theme. What theme do you pick, and what six characters?

Another thought I had for this. Unrepped genres as the theme!

1. Axel Stone (Beat Em Up)
2. Farmer Pete (Farming Sim)
3. Doom Guy (FPS)
4. Bomberman (I dunno what genre you call this, but it seems distinct enough to count?)
5. Karate Joe or Chorus Kids (Rhythm)
6. Phoenix Wright (Visual Novel)

Could also go for a bullet hell, western RPG, card game, roguelike, or indie game (if you consider indie a genre) for reps. Honestly there are quite a view genres still absent from Smash. I considered puzzle as well, but we do have Dr. Mario technically. As much as that feels like a cop out.

 

[SharkLord]

Hard to say. I've spent nights asking if people are ok. I've spent nights wanting them to show me their moves. I've spent nights swaying as I glow red and wishing I'd worn something less ridiculous.

So at one point or another I've been all of them.


Yes... hiking... that was also what I was referencing as well...

_>

<_<

I mean

They're on a mountain

How else are they gonna get there? Skydiving? Catapults?

 

[N3ON]

I mean

They're on a mountain

How else are they gonna get there? Skydiving? Catapults?

Funky's Flights

 

[DevaAshera]

No one plays it for Steve, but that doesn’t mean they don’t like Steve. Like, people don’t play Mario just for Mario, some people even like other characters more than Mario himself, that doesn’t mean they dislike Mario and so he shouldn’t be playable in Smash; most people don’t play a game purely just for its characters. There are a lot of Minecraft fans who like Steve and Alex and are attached to them, some wishing to see them get expanded on as characters besides the few details they’ve received over the years (there was a Lego Magazine that gave Steve and Alex a little bit more identity beyond appearance, and Mojang said a thing about Steve as an answer to someone in an AskMojang video but yeah still few details unless you count the Nether Update trailer and how they act in it, idk).
No game needs anything, they could be represented in different ways. If you wanna accurately represent Minecraft’s gameplay and stuff though, then technically you really do need Steve or another Minecraft character at least. Or of course, he could’ve just been a mii or whatever, but that would’ve disappointed a lot of people, because they wanted him as a fighter, even if it’s better than nothing.

Basically

I know, I wasn't saying that Steve shouldn't have been playable for any reason..I was just agreeing that he would have been fine represented as a Mii Fighter costume like Sans or Cuphead..and a stage would have been absolutely perfect for representation.

This is mostly from my bias of hating Minecraft's character aesthetic and limited animations..they hit this weird sort of uncanny value for me that just makes me have an irrational hatred towards them.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I mean

They're on a mountain

How else are they gonna get there? Skydiving? Catapults?

Well maybe if they played the N64s most influential launch game Pilot Wings 64 they could get up the mountain without issue

 

[SharkLord]

4. Bomberman (I dunno what genre you call this, but it seems distinct enough to count?)

Apparently, it's classified as a maze game. Pac-Man also counts as a maze game, so I'm not sure if Bomberman really fits the "new genre" criteria.

 

[ForsakenM]

True, but you're also the one who insisted Mii Costumes didn't deconfirm after Geno's came back, so your record isn't COMPLETELY spotless.

They still don't and never have. Once again, so long as we keep getting more content, current content does not wall off future content. This is especially true for content that was already made for the previous title and simply brought back to make a bit of cash.

Don't forget that I called all the costumes returning and that Monster Hunter was highly unlikely long before their costumes came back, with the costumes not having anything to do with why. Now we are only missing Lloyd, which his costume WILL return in one of the last two MCWs and it still won't affect his chances.

When you guys say these things 'deconfirm' what you really are saying is 'I expect no more future content after this' even though we have many credible things pointing towards more content past these last two Challenger Packs.

Yeah, you just put your faith in Fatman and Cacomallow. How'd that work out?

I mean, you do know any of us can just read through the old Geno thread, right? This isn't remotely true.

I never 'held faith' in Fatman, in fact I've been critical of him and disagreed with him on multiple occasions, though you wouldn't know that due to a combination of his lack of presence recently and your own faith of sorts in which you believe every Geno fan thinks Fatman is a prophet. We have agreed on some things, we've theorized things together and sometimes our theories connected, but other than that he's just a Geno fan who's been around as long as I have who gets way too much hate for a simple puppet-loving Halloween fanatic.

Also I can't possibly know how CacoMallow has panned out because we are still waiting. I get you want that theory to die for your own personal reasons of which I don't understand, but I took the time to chat it up with modders about the whole fiasco and I learned a lot of cool stuff about how modders can fake things. At the end of the day though, even modders who were neck-deep into the scene when that happened cannot prove it to be fake 100% and admit that at this point it's in limbo and up to personal preference until something significant happens. So, as much as it likely pains you, CacoMallow still lives on in the aether, floating about aimlessly, perhaps for a much longer time still.

You are right though, I did go a bit deeper into that whole Starling thing than I should have, but Fatman kinda had the whole thread wrapped up in that one and I already criticized him for that one. Also I came around to Steve late much like with Dragon Quest, that is true as well, but I had only come around to him being possible months before his reveal. Other than that and the fact that I didn't realize Mii Costumes didn't deconfirm up until it affected my wishes personally (which is how most people learn and change, when it affects them) I don't currently recall jumping on the bandwagon for any dumb theories or speculation but more often than not calling it out when I saw it. If you feel like taking the time out of your day to dig for posts in Ye Ol' Geno Thread to try and suggest otherwise, feel free to do so as is your prerogative, and I may or may not respond in kind to either agree or disagree. It's all just speculation at the end of the day.

Though it is a mighty good thing you are bad at remembering to keep proper score.

Have any character predictions lol

I know this was likely sarcasm, but as far as I'm concerned, the character to keep your eye on is actually Hayabusa. I know people are writing him off because of dumb reasons like thinking someone from Team Ninja not leaking their character in the game means he's not in or some ****.

Not much I can really go on right now other than stuff I've already said before.

 

[Ace C.R.O.S.S.]

Okay, so here's a game for you. Kind of inspired by that "villain roster" discussion the other day.

You can make a Fighter's Pass 3, with six whole characters in it - but it has to have some kind of theme. What theme do you pick, and what six characters?

My Theme: Second Chance
Basically Characters that were planned (or at least thought) but never made the cut, characters from underrepresented series and/or that they are requested but they were resigned to Assist Trophies.
1-. Waluigi
2-. Krystal
3-. Adeleine/Bandana Dee
4-. Isaac/Hans
5-. Shadow the Hedgehog/Eggman
6-. Ayumi Tachibana

 

[TheCJBrine]

I know, I wasn't saying that Steve shouldn't have been playable for any reason..I was just agreeing that he would have been fine represented as a Mii Fighter costume like Sans or Cuphead..and a stage would have been absolutely perfect for representation.

This is mostly from my bias of hating Minecraft's character aesthetic and limited animations..they hit this weird sort of uncanny value for me that just makes me have an irrational hatred towards them.

Alright; yeah, really any character or game would technically be fine as just a mii and a stage (of course some have to be fighters for Smash as a game, but technically could be anyone), it’d just be disappointing for a lot of fans of the game wanting a playable character from it, as happens a lot. Maybe I’m just reading everything wrong, it feels like an old argument people had against Steve getting in when the argument fit any game and character ._. But I know no one here is saying he shouldn’t or can’t be in, so yeah I’m reading stuff wrong again/thinking about it wrong...I guess I just didn’t understand the discussion exactly, I don’t know...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Holy **** it's been 17 months, almost a year and a half since that modded video, and we still have ****ing Cacomallow believers

 

[SirCamp]

Apparently, it's classified as a maze game. Pac-Man also counts as a maze game, so I'm not sure if Bomberman really fits the "new genre" criteria.

Damnit. I suppose I could see that. There goes my way of shoehorning Bomberman into my list.

Eh I’m gonna keep it lol, not like it matters anyway. Also they don’t play at all similarly anyway.

 

[osby]

Holy **** it's been 17 months, almost a year and a half since that modded video, and we still have ****ing Cacomallow believers

I mean, we're still arguing about whether Steve should be in Smash.

This thread apparently doesn't know what "letting go" means.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Holy **** it's been 17 months, almost a year and a half since that modded video, and we still have ****ing Cacomallow believers

Alright. After much consideration, I’ve decided. Not only do I think Cacomallow is 100% true. But Smash 4s Gematsu leak is also 100% accurate and nobody can prove it wrong until “something significant happens.”
The Chorus Kids are gonna be the best Smash 4 fighter ever!

 

[SharkLord]

Damnit. I suppose I could see that. There goes my way of shoehorning Bomberman into my list.

Eh I’m gonna keep it lol, not like it matters anyway. Also they don’t play at all similarly anyway.

Yeah, maze games seem like there's a lot of leeway. It's defined as games set in a maze, and I'd imagine you can make up whatever abilities and objectives you want. Kinda like how Kirby and Mega Man are both considered platformers, but they're pretty distinct gameplay-wise.

 

[ForsakenM]

Holy **** it's been 17 months, almost a year and a half since that modded video, and we still have ****ing Cacomallow believers

Believer is a strong word. More like I'm a logical person that can deduce through research from multiple sources that at the end of the day, no one has killed it nor confirmed it. As I said, limbo. Before my chat with that group I may have been more of a believer, but I've learned many ways it could have been faked and I know enough about the Smash community to know they would take such lengths just to be pricks.

I mean, just look at this site, it's living proof.

So no, not a believer. Feel free to place an incorrect label on me though, I'll add it to my collection next to 'Actual R-Word' and 'Disciple of Fatman The Demonspawn'.

 

[SirCamp]

Yeah, maze games seem like there's a lot of leeway. It's defined as games set in a maze, and I'd imagine you can make up whatever abilities and objectives you want. Kinda like how Kirby and Mega Man are both considered platformers, but they're pretty distinct gameplay-wise.

The biggest thing for me is that Bomberman I feel like is mostly known for its multiplayer. Like it feels like a multiplayer game at it's core, which just feels fundamentally different than (at least classic) Pac-Man.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Believer is a strong word. More like I'm a logical person that can deduce through research from multiple sources that at the end of the day, no one has killed it nor confirmed it. As I said, limbo. Before my chat with that group I may have been more of a believer, but I've learned many ways it could have been faked and I know enough about the Smash community to know they would take such lengths just to be pricks.

I mean, just look at this site, it's living proof.

So no, not a believer. Feel free to place an incorrect label on me though, I'll add it to my collection next to 'Actual R-Word' and 'Disciple of Fatman The Demonspawn'.

You know, getting called out for lying after acting all smarmy about how you're better than everyone else in speculation and you've almost never been fooled because you still defend the idea that a fake leak with a character you want could be real after a year and a half isn't really comparable to being called a slur. This is like that Black Clover tweet people are making fun of

 

[ForsakenM]

You know, getting called out for lying after acting all smarmy about how you're better than everyone else in speculation and you've almost never been fooled because you still defend the idea that a fake leak with a character you want could be real after a year and a half isn't really comparable to being called a slur. This is like that Black Clover tweet people are making fun of

I'm not sure what tweet you are referring to or what lying other than perhaps some forgetting of some bad takes I've had or perhaps people taking things in ways they never were, but honestly there wasn't a comparison being made. It was simply a joke.

Also it's not fake, merely never proven one way or another. You can think it's fake if you wish, but the fact is it has never been proven to be fake, just that it could have been via various methods.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm not sure what tweet you are referring to or what lying other than perhaps some forgetting of some bad takes I've had or perhaps people taking things in ways they never were, but honestly there wasn't a comparison being made. It was simply a joke.

Also it's not fake, merely never proven one way or another. You can think it's fake if you wish, but the fact is it has never been proven to be fake, just that it could have been via various methods.

The Black Clover tweet

Nah fam the debug mode timer doesn't add up with what we know for a fact it looks like, the only explanation given to deny that is "Well, maybe they just changed the debug mode after the game came out which literally nobody does, I don't have the burden of proof because I don't want to admit I'm wrong so we'll call it an ambiguous situation and leave it at that"

 

[cashregister9]

I know a Twewy Rep isn't super likely at this point but There is a new trailer for NEO: The World Ends With You and also a reminder that The World Ends With You has one of the best soundtracks.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

EDIT: Replaced with an English link

 

[Pillow]

I mean, we're still arguing about whether Steve should be in Smash.

This thread apparently doesn't know what "letting go" means.

Ridley is perfect sized damn you Sakurai

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I know a Twewy Rep isn't super likely at this point but There is a new trailer for NEO: The World Ends With You and also a reminder that The World Ends With You has one of the best soundtracks.

On god, TWEWY has one of the most memorable OSTs to me, it fits the setting perfectly and it's canonically what Neku plays on his headphones, that game did so ****ing much to make everything including gameplay mechanics and buying armour in stores fit the world and characters

 

[XorahnGaia]

"It hasn't been disproven yet so it might still be real" sound like a logical argument in theory, but in practice, it's always used to put the burden of proof on people who try to disapprove any kind of leak instead on the clique that thinks it's real.

Instead of asking "prove that this thing is fake", you should be asking yourself "how come this thing be real?".
Because, especially at this moment in time, there's no real evidence to support that Cacomallow could possibly be real.
"But modders haven't been able to replicate it yet"... probably because modders have better things to do than waste their time to replicate two hats just to show random people online that they are wrong. The important fact to keep in mind when bringing modding into the mix is that it's feasible to create new complex Mii hats, it's just that people prefer to give new costume to characters they actually care about, but just give them one good reason to do so and you get stuff like the deluxe Geno Mii costume (which I still maintain that it's pretty funny and ironic self-own).

But even beyond all of this, I still have to see Cacomallow defenders acknowledge actually discrepancies with the hoax, like the timer being different that the Ken leak, Ken's up-B doing less damage than normal for no reason other than for teasing a future balance patch that never came, or just the simple fact that as hoax filmed with a potato and posted on 4-chan it's very bait-y by its very nature, with all that teasing of two highly speculated characters and by drawing explicit parallels to the Ken leak (you know, one of the few "straight from the source" leak we got during Ultimate's cycle of speculation).

Honestly, we should stop rewarding ambiguity when it comes to leaks if the result is that a 17-month-old hoax is still part of the discussion despite everything
going against it and the main argument going for it is an extremely flawed one that was one of the main rebuttal used by Grinch defenders.
Can we say with 100% confidence that Cacomallow is fake? Maybe not, just like we can't say that a meteorite won't hit planet Earth tomorrow for certain, but you get to a point when a 0,0001% chance is more than irrelevant even if "technically" it isn't a 0% chance.

 

[Idon]

Just saying this random text I made I found on 4chan that includes the character I want also hasn't been disproven yet.

 

[ZelDan]

Man, those Mallow and Cacodemon Mii hats must be pretty damn amazing if they're taking well over a year and a half to make and then show off.

 

[Metal Shop X]

At this rate, the Mallow and Cacodemon Hats are going to be the last two fighters themselves.

 

[Shroob]

If Cacomallow were real, we would have gotten the Mallow hat with the Geno costume, it's really that simple.


We didn't.


We got all the returning Sonic costumes together.

We got all the returning Monster Hunter costumes together.

So far, all the Persona costumes came in a single wave.

So far, all the Dragon Quest costumes came in a single wave.

So far, all the Final Fantasy costumes came in a single wave.


The only, and I mean ONLY time we haven't gotten all of one 3rd party's IP's Mii costumes at once was Megaman, and that had a whopping 4 costumes to its name that was split between 2 packs.


Likewise, we know how Square Enix is, being that when Square gets a character, then we only receive Square Enix costumes, Square Enix costumes not showing up with other IPs as of yet, and maybe it's just me, but from a business standpoint, I see very little reason why they'd be gung ho okay with showing off Geno, the actually popular character, but not having Mallow in the same pack, a character that very little people actually care about, because god knows the Geno costume was barely touched up from its Smash 4 version, no mascot head, no music, all it has is higher graphical fidelity, that's it.



The only way, at this stage of the game, I see the Mallow hat coming is if Square has another character in this pass, something which I doubt. Possible? Sure, but at that point, why wouldn't they have saved Geno to go alongside it? The only IP to get split was Megaman, and that had 4 costumes, that would have basically taken up an entire Mii showcase, as opposed to the theoretical 2 SMRPG ones, which really would not have, we could have easily fit 1 more costume in the Sephiroth presentation, but, they didn't. People like Geno, Geno will sell. Mallow? Who gives a **** about Mallow. Like, I say this not to be a ******* to any Mallow stans out there, but having Geno and Mallow together makes a lot more sense than putting the actually popular character first, and then saving the guy that no one cares about for later.


Cacomallow was a fake leak made to play into Geno fan's desires, and to get the community talking, because Doomguy was THE hot button discussion topic going into that year's Game Awards, that's it.

 

[Peripuff]

I know a Twewy Rep isn't super likely at this point but There is a new trailer for NEO: The World Ends With You and also a reminder that The World Ends With You has one of the best soundtracks.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

EDIT: Replaced with an English link

I can’t wait for this. TWEWY was amazing and I’m very excited to play Neo TWEWY.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I love when people take "it hasn't been 100% proven/disproven" as an excuse to dismiss facts that don't suit them. Really shows a huge lack of understanding of science, logic and epistemology. Considering, you know, not even hard sciences and criminal law require 100% certainty because it's nigh-impossible to have 100% certainty of anything in most cases.

But don't mind me. I'm off to try and run at light speed because general relativity is just a theory.